Re: [gentoo-user] X11 without udev/eudev
Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés: > On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 11:07 AM wrote: ... > > Regarding udev, it has never > > supported serial mice, so it doesn't help me. > What are you talking about? Udev doesn't "support" any hardware; as the > manual page states[1], it: "supplies the system software with device > events, manages permissions of device nodes and may create additional > symlinks in the /dev/ directory, or renames network interfaces". Why would I need such a thing, I don't need any changes to /dev. Even if I pop in a usb-disk, I just mount it. Udev do not in the slightest solve any of my needs. So why are you telling me that I must have it, yes, software dependancies are a problem. I'm interested in answers that tells me how to solve that without calling in extra software and deamons. > If the kernel supports the hardware, udev will supply the corresponding > event, so udev will generate the corresponding event for serial mice also > (probably close to boot time). You can try gpm to do that. Udev do not do any way of serial mouce detection, never has. > > Poeple write whatever software they want to or are paid to do. It is my > > call if I want to use that software or not. > Well, yeah; but if you want to use software X, and X depends on Y, then you > either use software Y or don't use software X. The dependency chain can and > will grow depending on several factors, and it's the situation here if I'm > not mistaken: you want to keep using keyboard and mice, those depend on > libinput, and libinput depends on udev. I'm not a passive consumer in this as you seem to believe. If I decide I will resurrect thoose x11 drivers, I will do so. ... > > As I wrote before, udev does not handle serial mice, so udev does not > > solve anything for me nor does it help me in any way to run my systems. > You are saying it wrong, you mean to say: "to handle serial mice, I don't > need udev". And that is 100% completely true; you can keep a static /dev, > don't use udev and create the device nodes by hand. But serial mice > work great under udev also. Yea, it does, simply because udev doesn't touch any serial mouse, you have to fill in your own xorg.conf section for that or use gpm in a console. Udev just cares about the serial port, not what is attached to that port > It's not only USB; it's Bluetooth, Thunderbolt, eSATA and eSATAp, etc. The > computing world is dominated by dynamic hardware; it has been so for at > least the last two decades. Bluetooth adapters mostly comes in as a usb device, thought there might be thoose with an i2c connection for the embedded market. I don't know about thunderbolt. esata as well as sata just works well without udev. And I do not need a deamon to handle that. > > Serial ports are darn easy to implement in hardware and softwere. .. > Yes: but the software that *uses* mice doesn't care *ONLY* about serial > port mice. They care about USB mice (which is the majority) and Bluetooth > mice (which has the second place). Right now, serial mice have to be a > distant third place, if at all. Well, "if at all", so you agree with me that udev isn't for me. What I'm looking for is alternatives. > So the developers of software that deals with mice don't need to worry > *ONLY* about your case; they need to worry about the general case. Which > includes USB and Bluetooth (and whatever they invent in the future). So, udev isn't for me, what do you complain about. I don't say to others to not use udev, I don't care about that. I ask, how can I make my case work without udev, because honsestly, it doesn't bring me shit and I'm not interesed in using software that doesn't do anything for me. The problem of device nodes and permission is already solved, I don't need pop-ups, I don't want automounting. Serial ports have been working for the last 70 years or more. So stop this, I never asked about udev or how to make that work. You are answering the wrong question. Regards, /Karl Hammar
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:57:11 -0400, John Covici wrote: > So back to my original question, I downloaded -- after a lot of > trouble finding it -- the Ubuntu 21.04 live server as they call it, > but I cannot find any documentation as to how to use it as a rescue > disk -- seems to be just an install disk. Am I missing something > here? Use the desktop disc, I don't think the server one is a live environment (it wouldn't make much sense for a server). Either use an xterm on the desktop or find the invocation to boot to a console, possibly adding "systemd.unit=multi-user.target" to the kernel options. -- Neil Bothwick You are a completely unique individual, just like everybody else. pgpQSykKGlLIi.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 13:38:45 -0400, Meik Frischke wrote: > > Am Mo., 23. Aug. 2021 um 10:15 Uhr schrieb John Covici > : > > > > Hi. I have been using 5.4 lts kernels for a while, but it seems I > > need to change to 5.10 lts -- even Debian is now using 5.10, so it > > seems time to do this. > > > > Now, the problem is that I am using zfs and will not give it up, and > > the version I have been using 0.8.6 is no longer supported in 5.10 > > versions of the kernel. So, I need a newer version of zfs and a > > rescue cd in case I get into trouble. Sysresc seems to no longer be > > compatible withgentoo linux, so what is available? I could use gentoo > > catalyst to make something -- I have done that in the past, but its > > quite a bit of work and I would prefer if there were something > > available I could use out of the box. > > > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > > > > Hi, > > LRS (Linux Recovery System) [1] may be an alternative. It is a > Gentoo-based live system with ZFS support and was (partly) inspired by > the move of SystemRescue to Arch. > Latest changelog states: > > > 20210820.17 > > [X] Multiple updates and rebuilds applied > > [X] Kernel updated to 5.10.60 + ZFS modules > > It seems to be updated regularly and may be worth a try. > > Regards, > Meik > > [1] https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1106306.html > I will definitely check this out -- Thanks. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 14:13:30 -0400, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > [1 ] > On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 14:02:29 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > > > > Aren't new features only applied to newly created pools and datasets? > > > If /boot was compatible with GRUB it should still be. At least that's > > > how I read the einfo messages zfs spits out. > > > > That is correct. I want to know when I can enable the new features. > > Of course, it would also be nice to know which features must be > > disabled when creating a new boot pool. > > > > It is just frustrating that as far as I can tell, there is no > > documentation about what features grub supports. It wouldn't be hard > > for them to just say "here are the zpool features known to work in > > grub version foo." The best I've found is the Arch wiki, which has > > the disclaimer that it is probably out of date and to check the man > > pages, but of course the man pages don't actually say anything. > > All I could find was this: > > http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grub.git/tree/grub-core/fs/zfs/zfs.c#n276 > > For a program with so much documentation, GRUB seems sorely lacking in > this respect. It makes me glad I decided to keep /boot off my zpools. I did exactly that -- when you emerge zfs, it gives you the create command, so you can tell by that the features it wants, but there seems to be no good reason to have a boot pool, I can afford the 1 or 2 gig space. So back to my original question, I downloaded -- after a lot of trouble finding it -- the Ubuntu 21.04 live server as they call it, but I cannot find any documentation as to how to use it as a rescue disk -- seems to be just an install disk. Am I missing something here? -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
Don't complain to me on the Gentoo mailling list. Go bother: A.The ZFS mailling list B.The GRUB mailling list IIRC this has to do with the whole CDDL x GPL situation. On the topic of not having UEFI as a possibility: Either upgrade your machine or go back to the steps mentioned above. I don't mean to be rude, it's just the situation of things right now. I also wish GRUB properly supported ZFS, to the point of letting me set all it's features on a single pool and use boot environments. August 23, 2021 5:15 PM, "Neil Bothwick" wrote: > On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 19:50:38 +, Vitor Hugo Nunes dos Santos wrote: > >> GRUB purposefully has lacking documentation, as they are not friendly >> towards ZFS as a whole > > That's ridiculous, if they can support it with code, they can support it > with documentation. > >> and also because most people doing ZFS nowadays >> do an EFISTUB setup with no GRUB, exactly to avoid these issues. > > What about those for whom EFI is not an option? > > -- > Neil Bothwick > > "Most problems go away if you just wait long enough. It might look like > I'm standing motionless but I'm actively waiting for our problems to go > away. I don't know why this works but it does." > Scott Adams, Dilbert comic
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 19:50:38 +, Vitor Hugo Nunes dos Santos wrote: > GRUB purposefully has lacking documentation, as they are not friendly > towards ZFS as a whole That's ridiculous, if they can support it with code, they can support it with documentation. > and also because most people doing ZFS nowadays > do an EFISTUB setup with no GRUB, exactly to avoid these issues. What about those for whom EFI is not an option? -- Neil Bothwick "Most problems go away if you just wait long enough. It might look like I'm standing motionless but I'm actively waiting for our problems to go away. I don't know why this works but it does." Scott Adams, Dilbert comic pgpvzXqQCg_g6.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
To expand on this even further: GRUB usage with ZFS, in my experience, requires the following patch: https://vhns.com.br/pix/grub-zfs-patch.html I took it from GRUB's mailling list. I don't really recall who wrote it. August 23, 2021 4:51 PM, "Vitor Hugo Nunes dos Santos" wrote: > You set yourself up for failure by sharing the same pool for /boot and root. > Here's the flags you're meant to use for your boot pool: > > https://openzfs.github.io/openzfs-docs/Getting%20Started/Debian/Debian%20Buster%20Root%20on%20ZFS.ht > l#step-2-disk-formatting > > Under "Create boot pool". > GRUB purposefully has lacking documentation, as they are not friendly towards > ZFS as a whole, and also because most people doing ZFS nowadays do an EFISTUB > setup with no GRUB, exactly to avoid these issues. > > August 23, 2021 3:30 PM, "Rich Freeman" wrote: > >> On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 2:13 PM Neil Bothwick wrote: >> >>> All I could find was this: >>> >>> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grub.git/tree/grub-core/fs/zfs/zfs.c#n276 >>> >>> For a program with so much documentation, GRUB seems sorely lacking in >>> this respect. It makes me glad I decided to keep /boot off my zpools. >> >> Even this seems lacking. For example, encryption is not read-only >> compatible (which seems obvious), and it isn't listed as compatible in >> the source code you linked. However, grub-mount supposedly uses the >> grub drivers and it has a command line option to provide an encryption >> key. Maybe it is only compatible with the grub-mount command and not >> at boot time, but if so that seems like something worth pointing out >> since one of the purposes of grub-mount is to test filesystem >> compatibility. >> >> -- >> Rich
[gentoo-user] udev and IR receiver problem
Hi all, I've been struggling with an odd udev problem. Any udev experts
on here?
Some background: My 13-year-old HTPC finally kicked the bucket. After
looking around, stock levels of PC parts around here are close to
nonexistant. I had a newer donor board/ram/cpu around that's 5-7 years
old. I have set up gentoo from scratch on this device (not using any old
stage4-esque backups.)
This HTPC case has an iMon device:
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 15c2:0038 SoundGraph Inc. GD01 MX LCD Display/IR
Receiver
It has worked well over the last 13 years but it has had problems with
its driver early on. I tried to recover the SSD that was from the dead
PC and it worked exactly twice (the third time I tried to get some
configs from it the SSD failed completely.)
It has a bit of a strange setup compared to other IR devices: it creates
two separate input devices. During boot, udev used to automatically
create a third device (an infrared device) that chains the two separate
devices together so the kernel IR can receive all remote events.
The problem I'm having is this: When booting, udev triggers the events
from the kernel and sets up the two devices:
# ls -l /dev/input/by-id
total 0
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 Aug 23 12:44 usb-15c2_0038-event-mouse ->
../event10
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Aug 23 12:44 usb-15c2_0038-mouse -> ../mouse1
The kernel IR sees this as well:
# ir-keytable
Found /sys/class/rc/rc0/ with:
Name: iMON Remote (15c2:0038)
Driver: imon
Default keymap: rc-imon-pad
Input device: /dev/input/event10
LIRC device: /dev/lirc0
Supported kernel protocols: rc-6 imon
Enabled kernel protocols: imon
bus: 3, vendor/product: 15c2:0038, version: 0x0001
Repeat delay = 500 ms, repeat period = 125 ms
The problem is, this is missing the device that chains them together.
It's usually postpended with 'if00' or something similar to indicate
it's the infrared device.
On boot, it does not create a device for it under /dev/input/by-id like
it used to, so making lircd chain to it becomes difficult, especially if
you plug in another USB input device.
The kernel does indeed report the device to udev:
# dmesg | grep "iMON Remote"
[1.423629] rc rc0: iMON Remote (15c2:0038) as
/devices/pci:00/:00:14.0/usb1/1-9/1-9:1.0/rc/rc0
[1.423734] input: iMON Remote (15c2:0038) as
/devices/pci:00/:00:14.0/usb1/1-9/1-9:1.0/rc/rc0/input10
This IR receiver also supports multiple protocols and keymaps. As I use
Microsoft's remote keymaps, I do change this as a part of the
/etc/init.d/lircd startup (I load the keymap and change the receiver's
protocol before starting lircd.) Note that during testing I've removed
this for testing thinking that perhaps it was changing something in the
kernel - no dice, no new events or anything of the sort. It has nothing
to do with this problem.
Now here's the really strange part: If I drop to bash and issue `udevadm
trigger` it is created and appears correctly! This only happens
modifying the keymap/protocol (changing it to RC-6 compatibility):
# ls -l /dev/input/by-id/
total 0
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 Aug 23 13:03 usb-15c2_0038-event-if00 ->
../event10
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Aug 23 13:03 usb-15c2_0038-event-mouse ->
../event9
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Aug 23 13:03 usb-15c2_0038-mouse -> ../mouse0
As you can see, the infrared device is created.
This device should be created at boot time, regardless or not if it has
had the protocol changed and/or custom keymap applied.
I tried something quick in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-remote-control.rules:
KERNEL=="event*",ATTRS{name}="iMON Remote
(15c2:0038)",SYMLINK="input/remote"
But it does not work, even after reloading the rules and forcing the
trigger event.
I've kind of worked around this for now by adding a manual `udevadm
trigger` command in /etc/init.d/lircd after modifying the protocol and
keymap. However, there must be a way to make this work as intended with
an udev rule. The issue being that this device doesn't have anything
unique identifying it other than its name.
Anyone have any insight on how to solve this problem?
Dan
Re: [gentoo-user] X11 without udev/eudev
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 11:07 AM wrote:
[...]
> It is inconvenient that thoose two goes away. Regarding udev, it has never
> supported serial mice, so it doesn't help me.
>
What are you talking about? Udev doesn't "support" any hardware; as the
manual page states[1], it: "supplies the system software with device
events, manages permissions of device nodes and may create additional
symlinks in the /dev/ directory, or renames network interfaces".
If the kernel supports the hardware, udev will supply the corresponding
event, so udev will generate the corresponding event for serial mice also
(probably close to boot time).
[...]
> Poeple write whatever software they want to or are paid to do. It is my
> call if I want to use that software or not.
>
Well, yeah; but if you want to use software X, and X depends on Y, then you
either use software Y or don't use software X. The dependency chain can and
will grow depending on several factors, and it's the situation here if I'm
not mistaken: you want to keep using keyboard and mice, those depend on
libinput, and libinput depends on udev.
There are alternatives, of course; some members have posted several working
ones; but the fact is that either you accept the dependencies dictated by
the software you want to use, or you need an alternative that *someone* has
to write/debug/maintain, etc. You said: "[u]dev should be an optional
daemon, utilized when the local administrator decides to do so," and that
is simply not true: if a software you use decides to depend on udev, then
you either use udev, or need to change to a different software.
> As I wrote before, udev does not handle serial mice, so udev does not
> solve anything for me nor does it help me in any way to run my systems.
>
You are saying it wrong, you mean to say: "to handle serial mice, I don't
need udev". And that is 100% completely true; you can keep a static /dev,
don't use udev and create the device nodes by hand. But serial mice
work great under udev also.
The thing is, the *GREAT* majority of users need support for dynamic
hardware, so the developers of most of the software in Linux solve the
general problem: dynamic hardware (which includes static hardware also). So
they do that, and you complain about daemons that are needed for other
people other than you.
But you didn't write the software that depends on udev; someone else
(worrying about the general problem) did. So either you write your own
version, or find someone else who does (again, check the alternatives).
> Udev is just something pushed on me for no gain except possible to satisfy
> some dependancy touted to be beneficial.
For no gain *TO YOU*. You want software that someone else wrote to cater to
*ONLY* your needs. That's not how it works; *MOST* developers will cater to
the needs of the *MAJORITY* of users, and that includes the dynamic
hardware scenario (which has been the case for all of the XXI century, by
the way).
> So in this very specific case it can be considered "bloat" if you wish to
> use that kind of words.
>
> My guess is that it is more useful on laptop than on a desktop box or an
> industrial computer.
>
Of course not; desktop and servers ("industrial computers") need dynamic
hardware (hot swappable storage, anyone?, disconnect the webcam after the
Zoom meeting?) Just because you in particular don't find it useful doesn't
mean it isn't: the truth is, dynamic hardware users surpass static hardware
users, and it has been the case for several decades now.
> As a side note, from what I understand, udev today is mostly
> about usb-devices because that is where the dynamic hardware comes
> from today (at least when we are not talking about hotplugging cpus, memory
> cards, io-cards and such (but that is more of a enterprise problem than a
> small system problem.
>
It's not only USB; it's Bluetooth, Thunderbolt, eSATA and eSATAp, etc. The
computing world is dominated by dynamic hardware; it has been so for at
least the last two decades.
> Serial ports are darn easy to implement in hardware and softwere.
>
Yes: but the software that *uses* mice doesn't care *ONLY* about serial
port mice. They care about USB mice (which is the majority) and Bluetooth
mice (which has the second place). Right now, serial mice have to be a
distant third place, if at all.
So the developers of software that deals with mice don't need to worry
*ONLY* about your case; they need to worry about the general case. Which
includes USB and Bluetooth (and whatever they invent in the future).
E.g. if I have a program connecting to a device using a serial
> and it is disconnected, I can just reconnect it and nothing
> special happens, noting to be done in software except logging.
> The same device via usb, the dis-/reconnect will close the
> port and make it vanish forcing med to find out find out where the
> new /dev file is and reopen and reinitialize it.
>
That is what udev+libinput solves, *exactly*. You answered yourself why it
is
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
You set yourself up for failure by sharing the same pool for /boot and root. Here's the flags you're meant to use for your boot pool: https://openzfs.github.io/openzfs-docs/Getting%20Started/Debian/Debian%20Buster%20Root%20on%20ZFS.html#step-2-disk-formatting Under "Create boot pool". GRUB purposefully has lacking documentation, as they are not friendly towards ZFS as a whole, and also because most people doing ZFS nowadays do an EFISTUB setup with no GRUB, exactly to avoid these issues. August 23, 2021 3:30 PM, "Rich Freeman" wrote: > On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 2:13 PM Neil Bothwick wrote: > >> All I could find was this: >> >> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grub.git/tree/grub-core/fs/zfs/zfs.c#n276 >> >> For a program with so much documentation, GRUB seems sorely lacking in >> this respect. It makes me glad I decided to keep /boot off my zpools. > > Even this seems lacking. For example, encryption is not read-only > compatible (which seems obvious), and it isn't listed as compatible in > the source code you linked. However, grub-mount supposedly uses the > grub drivers and it has a command line option to provide an encryption > key. Maybe it is only compatible with the grub-mount command and not > at boot time, but if so that seems like something worth pointing out > since one of the purposes of grub-mount is to test filesystem > compatibility. > > -- > Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 2:13 PM Neil Bothwick wrote: > > All I could find was this: > > http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grub.git/tree/grub-core/fs/zfs/zfs.c#n276 > > For a program with so much documentation, GRUB seems sorely lacking in > this respect. It makes me glad I decided to keep /boot off my zpools. > Even this seems lacking. For example, encryption is not read-only compatible (which seems obvious), and it isn't listed as compatible in the source code you linked. However, grub-mount supposedly uses the grub drivers and it has a command line option to provide an encryption key. Maybe it is only compatible with the grub-mount command and not at boot time, but if so that seems like something worth pointing out since one of the purposes of grub-mount is to test filesystem compatibility. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 14:02:29 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > > Aren't new features only applied to newly created pools and datasets? > > If /boot was compatible with GRUB it should still be. At least that's > > how I read the einfo messages zfs spits out. > > That is correct. I want to know when I can enable the new features. > Of course, it would also be nice to know which features must be > disabled when creating a new boot pool. > > It is just frustrating that as far as I can tell, there is no > documentation about what features grub supports. It wouldn't be hard > for them to just say "here are the zpool features known to work in > grub version foo." The best I've found is the Arch wiki, which has > the disclaimer that it is probably out of date and to check the man > pages, but of course the man pages don't actually say anything. All I could find was this: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grub.git/tree/grub-core/fs/zfs/zfs.c#n276 For a program with so much documentation, GRUB seems sorely lacking in this respect. It makes me glad I decided to keep /boot off my zpools. -- Neil Bothwick Is that "woof" feed me; "woof" walk me; "woof" there's a burglar? What?? pgpCslt5EGaIo.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 1:57 PM Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 13:37:01 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > > > > Your root pool setup doesn't really matter for GRUB compatibility. > > > What's important is that you have the proper features setup on your > > > boot pool. That's the one GRUB loads. > > > > Sure, and in this case /boot is on my root pool. > > > > In any case, it would be nice if there was some way to tell what zpool > > features grub requires, as it is a limiting factor for whatever pool > > /boot happens to be on. > > Aren't new features only applied to newly created pools and datasets? If > /boot was compatible with GRUB it should still be. At least that's how I > read the einfo messages zfs spits out. That is correct. I want to know when I can enable the new features. Of course, it would also be nice to know which features must be disabled when creating a new boot pool. It is just frustrating that as far as I can tell, there is no documentation about what features grub supports. It wouldn't be hard for them to just say "here are the zpool features known to work in grub version foo." The best I've found is the Arch wiki, which has the disclaimer that it is probably out of date and to check the man pages, but of course the man pages don't actually say anything. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 13:37:01 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > > Your root pool setup doesn't really matter for GRUB compatibility. > > What's important is that you have the proper features setup on your > > boot pool. That's the one GRUB loads. > > Sure, and in this case /boot is on my root pool. > > In any case, it would be nice if there was some way to tell what zpool > features grub requires, as it is a limiting factor for whatever pool > /boot happens to be on. Aren't new features only applied to newly created pools and datasets? If /boot was compatible with GRUB it should still be. At least that's how I read the einfo messages zfs spits out. -- Neil Bothwick Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. pgppb6_Ps0u7T.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
Am Mo., 23. Aug. 2021 um 10:15 Uhr schrieb John Covici : > > Hi. I have been using 5.4 lts kernels for a while, but it seems I > need to change to 5.10 lts -- even Debian is now using 5.10, so it > seems time to do this. > > Now, the problem is that I am using zfs and will not give it up, and > the version I have been using 0.8.6 is no longer supported in 5.10 > versions of the kernel. So, I need a newer version of zfs and a > rescue cd in case I get into trouble. Sysresc seems to no longer be > compatible withgentoo linux, so what is available? I could use gentoo > catalyst to make something -- I have done that in the past, but its > quite a bit of work and I would prefer if there were something > available I could use out of the box. > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > Hi, LRS (Linux Recovery System) [1] may be an alternative. It is a Gentoo-based live system with ZFS support and was (partly) inspired by the move of SystemRescue to Arch. Latest changelog states: > 20210820.17 > [X] Multiple updates and rebuilds applied > [X] Kernel updated to 5.10.60 + ZFS modules It seems to be updated regularly and may be worth a try. Regards, Meik [1] https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1106306.html
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 11:45 AM Vitor Hugo Nunes dos Santos wrote: > > Your root pool setup doesn't really matter for GRUB compatibility. What's > important is that you have the proper features setup on your boot pool. > That's the one GRUB loads. Sure, and in this case /boot is on my root pool. In any case, it would be nice if there was some way to tell what zpool features grub requires, as it is a limiting factor for whatever pool /boot happens to be on. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] X11 without udev/eudev
Karl Hammar: > Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés: ... > > My point is that it's not his call; it's the call of the developers of the > > software that he decided to use. > > Poeple write whatever software they want to or are paid to do. > It is my call if I want to use that software or not. For what some people want to work on, here is an alternative api: https://github.com/idunham/libsysdev And what Anna gratiosly provided: https://github.com/illiliti/libudev-zero ... > > There is no bloat; the developers *need* to handle the dynamic hardware > > case *and* the static hardware case. With udev, they handle both; otherwise > > there would be two code routes: one for static and another for dynamic > > hardware. As an example of that is: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/drm/-/blob/main/xf86drm.c The changes nessesary for a non-udev solution is smallish, and it doesn't have to resort to polling as in the udev case. A gui's need for pop-up windows when new devices are connected could just as well be handled separate to the system thing of /dev nodes, permissions and such. You don't need a daemon for that, it just that the udev people just merged the use cases. ... > As a side note, ... As an actual case, this is a prototype for a three way mouse to be used on ship bridges http://aspodata.se/git/openhw/boards_arm_aspo/mouse/ Switching a knob, I can send mouse events to three different computers, say for radar, maps, etc. It uses microsoft serial mouse protocol. This possible for low end mcu's since they contain multiple serial interfaces. If I had to use usb, well, not even a high end mcu's like stm32f4 has more than two usb ports. Regards, /Karl Hammar
Re: [gentoo-user] X11 without udev/eudev
Based Karl Keep the bloaties at bay Rock on August 23, 2021 1:08 PM, k...@aspodata.se wrote: > Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés: > ... > >> Where do you get that impression from? The OP needs handling keyboard and >> mouse (as per his first email), and to do that in Linux these days, you >> basically need udev, because xf86-input-mouse and xf86-input-keyboard are >> going the way of the dodo. > > It is inconvenient that thoose two goes away. > Regarding udev, it has never supported serial mice, so it doesn't help > me. > > ... >> My point is that it's not his call; it's the call of the developers of the >> software that he decided to use. > > Poeple write whatever software they want to or are paid to do. > It is my call if I want to use that software or not. > >> Yes I take your point, but bloat is bloat, and bloat is a liability. >> >> There is no bloat; the developers *need* to handle the dynamic hardware >> case *and* the static hardware case. With udev, they handle both; otherwise >> there would be two code routes: one for static and another for dynamic >> hardware. > > ... > > As I wrote before, udev does not handle serial mice, so udev does not > solve anything for me nor does it help me in any way to run my systems. > Udev is just something pushed on me for no gain except possible to > satisfy some dependancy touted to be beneficial. So in this very > specific case it can be considered "bloat" if you wish to use that > kind of words. > > My guess is that it is more useful on laptop than on a desktop box > or an industrial computer. > > /// > > As a side note, from what I understand, udev today is mostly about > usb-devices because that is where the dynamic hardware comes from > today (at least when we are not talking about hotplugging cpus, > memory cards, io-cards and such (but that is more of a enterprise > problem than a small system problem. > > Serial ports are darn easy to implement in hardware and > softwere. > > E.g. if I have a program connecting to a device using a serial > and it is disconnected, I can just reconnect it and nothing > special happens, noting to be done in software except logging. > The same device via usb, the dis-/reconnect will close the > port and make it vanish forcing med to find out find out where the > new /dev file is and reopen and reinitialize it. > In hardware, mcu's without usb are cheap and their serial port > are simpe to program and the serial port "stack" is vanishingly small. > Just look at the tty_* files in > http://aspodata.se/git/openhw/libarm > http://aspodata.se/git/openhw/libarm/stm32 > For usb support, I need an usb stack (which is larger), e.g. > https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/tree/master/lib/usb > I need to understand the usb protocol and all thoose structs to fill > in, and in the end I get a system that is harder to program on the > host side for no gain other than that +5V is provided by usb. > > Regards, > /Karl Hammar
Re: [gentoo-user] X11 without udev/eudev
Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés: ... > Where do you get that impression from? The OP needs handling keyboard and > mouse (as per his first email), and to do that in Linux these days, you > basically need udev, because xf86-input-mouse and xf86-input-keyboard are > going the way of the dodo. It is inconvenient that thoose two goes away. Regarding udev, it has never supported serial mice, so it doesn't help me. ... > My point is that it's not his call; it's the call of the developers of the > software that he decided to use. Poeple write whatever software they want to or are paid to do. It is my call if I want to use that software or not. > > Yes I take your point, but bloat is bloat, and bloat is a liability. > > > > There is no bloat; the developers *need* to handle the dynamic hardware > case *and* the static hardware case. With udev, they handle both; otherwise > there would be two code routes: one for static and another for dynamic > hardware. ... As I wrote before, udev does not handle serial mice, so udev does not solve anything for me nor does it help me in any way to run my systems. Udev is just something pushed on me for no gain except possible to satisfy some dependancy touted to be beneficial. So in this very specific case it can be considered "bloat" if you wish to use that kind of words. My guess is that it is more useful on laptop than on a desktop box or an industrial computer. /// As a side note, from what I understand, udev today is mostly about usb-devices because that is where the dynamic hardware comes from today (at least when we are not talking about hotplugging cpus, memory cards, io-cards and such (but that is more of a enterprise problem than a small system problem. Serial ports are darn easy to implement in hardware and softwere. E.g. if I have a program connecting to a device using a serial and it is disconnected, I can just reconnect it and nothing special happens, noting to be done in software except logging. The same device via usb, the dis-/reconnect will close the port and make it vanish forcing med to find out find out where the new /dev file is and reopen and reinitialize it. In hardware, mcu's without usb are cheap and their serial port are simpe to program and the serial port "stack" is vanishingly small. Just look at the tty_* files in http://aspodata.se/git/openhw/libarm/ http://aspodata.se/git/openhw/libarm/stm32/ For usb support, I need an usb stack (which is larger), e.g. https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/tree/master/lib/usb I need to understand the usb protocol and all thoose structs to fill in, and in the end I get a system that is harder to program on the host side for no gain other than that +5V is provided by usb. Regards, /Karl Hammar
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
Your root pool setup doesn't really matter for GRUB compatibility. What's important is that you have the proper features setup on your boot pool. That's the one GRUB loads. On Aug 23, 2021 12:24 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 11:11 AM Neil Bothwick wrote: > > > > On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 04:15:10 -0400, John Covici wrote: > > > > > Now, the problem is that I am using zfs and will not give it up, and > > > the version I have been using 0.8.6 is no longer supported in 5.10 > > > versions of the kernel. So, I need a newer version of zfs and a > > > rescue cd in case I get into trouble. > > > > It doesn't answer your question, other have done that, but FWIW I went > > from ZFS 0.8.4 to 2.0 a year ago and it went without a hitch. Just emerge > > the later ZFS packages first, check everything works then update your > > kernel. > > Yeah, I'm pretty conservative with zfs upgrades but have had no > issues. The one thing I wish is that there were better documentation > of grub compatibility. I have a root partition I haven't upgraded the > features on because I have no idea whether it would break grub, and > you can't reverse this. Sure, I have backups but I really don't want > to deal with the hassle of restoring a filesystem over some feature > I'd have to google to even know what it does. > > -- > Rich >
RE: [gentoo-user] VirtualBox UI
-Original Message- From: p...@xvalheru.org Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2021 12:53 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] VirtualBox UI On 2021-08-21 21:11, tastytea wrote: > On 2021-08-21 20:42+0200 p...@xvalheru.org wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I didn't use VirtualBox for a while and I find out that >> virtualbox-bin package has dissapeard. So I've installed virtualbox >> 6.1.22 but there's missing VurtualBox command to tun graphical >> management. Is there other UI for VirutalBox? I believe libvirt is capable of managing VirtualBox based VMs as well, but the official UI is definitely superior if you're only managing a single host. If you haven't used it in a while, note that Oracle has changed the license on their extensions such that any activity with even the faintest hint of educational or commercial purposes now requires purchasing a license. Last I looked the minimum purchase quantity was about $10,000 worth. LMP
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 11:11 AM Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 04:15:10 -0400, John Covici wrote: > > > Now, the problem is that I am using zfs and will not give it up, and > > the version I have been using 0.8.6 is no longer supported in 5.10 > > versions of the kernel. So, I need a newer version of zfs and a > > rescue cd in case I get into trouble. > > It doesn't answer your question, other have done that, but FWIW I went > from ZFS 0.8.4 to 2.0 a year ago and it went without a hitch. Just emerge > the later ZFS packages first, check everything works then update your > kernel. Yeah, I'm pretty conservative with zfs upgrades but have had no issues. The one thing I wish is that there were better documentation of grub compatibility. I have a root partition I haven't upgraded the features on because I have no idea whether it would break grub, and you can't reverse this. Sure, I have backups but I really don't want to deal with the hassle of restoring a filesystem over some feature I'd have to google to even know what it does. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Firmware updates
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:08:08 +0200, Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > off and on I'm receiving updates of packages "sys-firmware/intel-micro- > code" and "sys-kernel/linux-firmware". My kernel has > >$ grep ^CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE /usr/src/linux/.config >CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE="intel-ucode/06-5e-03 i915/skl_dmc_ver1_27.bin > regulatory.db regulatory.db.p7s iwlwifi-3160-17.ucode" > CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR="/lib/firmware" $ > > Is there any need for some postprocessing like booting when either of > these packages is updated? Normally my laptop is regularly hibernated > but it is rarely booted. Not every update of the microcode package has updates for every processor, but when yours is affected, you need to reboot. I use needrestart after all updates and then tells me if I need to reboot for newer microcode. Note that I don't compile the microcode into the kernel, I let emerge create an initramfs for it, so I don't need to recompile my kernel when there's an update, I suspect you do. -- Neil Bothwick WinErr 01F: Reserved for future mistakes of our developers. pgpZk_wyZRQtq.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 04:15:10 -0400, John Covici wrote: > Now, the problem is that I am using zfs and will not give it up, and > the version I have been using 0.8.6 is no longer supported in 5.10 > versions of the kernel. So, I need a newer version of zfs and a > rescue cd in case I get into trouble. It doesn't answer your question, other have done that, but FWIW I went from ZFS 0.8.4 to 2.0 a year ago and it went without a hitch. Just emerge the later ZFS packages first, check everything works then update your kernel. -- Neil Bothwick I have seen things you lusers would not believe. I've seen Sun monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab. I've seen NTU lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate. All these things will be lost in time, like the root partition last week. Time to die. pgpQBXNVBr0A5.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 10:13 AM John Covici wrote: > > So, which image is it exactly and how to boot up to a virtual console, > rather than some kind of gui? It has been a while, but I usually just download their desktop installer. I suspect their server installer would make it easier to get to a text console, but there might be a boot option for that on the desktop version. I don't mind having a GUI - I can always fire up a terminal and being able to copy/paste from a browser can be helpful. Getting sshd running in any of them is usually a 1-2 liner. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 09:52:10 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:13 AM John Covici wrote: > > > > Well, I cannot find any zfs packages and it does not say even what > > kernel version it has -- but the whole point is I do need zfs and it > > seems not to be there. > > > > I've also been using the Ubuntu image. It is pretty easy to install > zfs on them (not sure if they have it out of the box, but they have a > working package manager). > So, which image is it exactly and how to boot up to a virtual console, rather than some kind of gui? -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una cov...@ccs.covici.com
[gentoo-user] Firmware updates
Greetings, off and on I'm receiving updates of packages "sys-firmware/intel-micro- code" and "sys-kernel/linux-firmware". My kernel has $ grep ^CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE /usr/src/linux/.config CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE="intel-ucode/06-5e-03 i915/skl_dmc_ver1_27.bin regulatory.db regulatory.db.p7s iwlwifi-3160-17.ucode" CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR="/lib/firmware" $ Is there any need for some postprocessing like booting when either of these packages is updated? Normally my laptop is regularly hibernated but it is rarely booted. Sincerely, Rainer
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:13 AM John Covici wrote: > > Well, I cannot find any zfs packages and it does not say even what > kernel version it has -- but the whole point is I do need zfs and it > seems not to be there. > I've also been using the Ubuntu image. It is pretty easy to install zfs on them (not sure if they have it out of the box, but they have a working package manager). -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 05:51:38 -0400, Miles Malone wrote: > > What is it makes you think system rescue cd isnt compatible with > gentoo? it's built on arch these days, but it's still the go-to > rescue and install CD, and I cannot imagine it being an issue. I > suggest giving it a go and make sure it mounts your ZFS array without > issues, and go from there. > > It's still the USB boot image I use for absolutely everything in gentoo > > On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 18:15, John Covici wrote: > > > > Hi. I have been using 5.4 lts kernels for a while, but it seems I > > need to change to 5.10 lts -- even Debian is now using 5.10, so it > > seems time to do this. > > > > Now, the problem is that I am using zfs and will not give it up, and > > the version I have been using 0.8.6 is no longer supported in 5.10 > > versions of the kernel. So, I need a newer version of zfs and a > > rescue cd in case I get into trouble. Sysresc seems to no longer be > > compatible withgentoo linux, so what is available? I could use gentoo > > catalyst to make something -- I have done that in the past, but its > > quite a bit of work and I would prefer if there were something > > available I could use out of the box. > > > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Well, I cannot find any zfs packages and it does not say even what kernel version it has -- but the whole point is I do need zfs and it seems not to be there. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
What is it makes you think system rescue cd isnt compatible with gentoo? it's built on arch these days, but it's still the go-to rescue and install CD, and I cannot imagine it being an issue. I suggest giving it a go and make sure it mounts your ZFS array without issues, and go from there. It's still the USB boot image I use for absolutely everything in gentoo On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 18:15, John Covici wrote: > > Hi. I have been using 5.4 lts kernels for a while, but it seems I > need to change to 5.10 lts -- even Debian is now using 5.10, so it > seems time to do this. > > Now, the problem is that I am using zfs and will not give it up, and > the version I have been using 0.8.6 is no longer supported in 5.10 > versions of the kernel. So, I need a newer version of zfs and a > rescue cd in case I get into trouble. Sysresc seems to no longer be > compatible withgentoo linux, so what is available? I could use gentoo > catalyst to make something -- I have done that in the past, but its > quite a bit of work and I would prefer if there were something > available I could use out of the box. > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > > -- > Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: > How do > you spend it? > > John Covici wb2una > cov...@ccs.covici.com >
[gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
Use Ubuntu's livecdOn Aug 23, 2021 5:15 AM, John Covici wrote: > > Hi. I have been using 5.4 lts kernels for a while, but it seems I > need to change to 5.10 lts -- even Debian is now using 5.10, so it > seems time to do this. > > Now, the problem is that I am using zfs and will not give it up, and > the version I have been using 0.8.6 is no longer supported in 5.10 > versions of the kernel. So, I need a newer version of zfs and a > rescue cd in case I get into trouble. Sysresc seems to no longer be > compatible withgentoo linux, so what is available? I could use gentoo > catalyst to make something -- I have done that in the past, but its > quite a bit of work and I would prefer if there were something > available I could use out of the box. > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > > -- > Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: > How do > you spend it? > > John Covici wb2una > cov...@ccs.covici.com >
[gentoo-user] rescue cd for zfs 2.1 or thereabouts
Hi. I have been using 5.4 lts kernels for a while, but it seems I need to change to 5.10 lts -- even Debian is now using 5.10, so it seems time to do this. Now, the problem is that I am using zfs and will not give it up, and the version I have been using 0.8.6 is no longer supported in 5.10 versions of the kernel. So, I need a newer version of zfs and a rescue cd in case I get into trouble. Sysresc seems to no longer be compatible withgentoo linux, so what is available? I could use gentoo catalyst to make something -- I have done that in the past, but its quite a bit of work and I would prefer if there were something available I could use out of the box. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] updating an old system
On 2021-08-22 21:07, Jack wrote: On 2021.08.22 14:54, p...@xvalheru.org wrote: Hi, I've downloaded gentoo VirtualBox image from osboxes.org. Trying to update, but getting this error: ** emerge --oneshot sys-apps/portage * IMPORTANT: 17 news items need reading for repository 'gentoo'. * Use eselect news read to view new items. Calculating dependencies... done! Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python-exec/python3.6/emerge", line 53, in retval = emerge_main() File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/main.py", line 1289, in emerge_main return run_action(emerge_config) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/actions.py", line 3330, in run_action retval = action_build(emerge_config, spinner=spinner) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/actions.py", line 340, in action_build settings, trees, myopts, myparams, myaction, myfiles, spinner) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 9767, in backtrack_depgraph myaction, myfiles, spinner) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 9804, in _backtrack_depgraph success, favorites = mydepgraph.select_files(myfiles) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 3955, in select_files return self._select_files(args) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 4298, in _select_files return self._resolve(myfavorites) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 4449, in _resolve if not self._create_graph(): File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 2694, in _create_graph allow_unsatisfied=allow_unsatisfied): File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 3449, in _add_pkg_deps allow_unsatisfied): File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 3465, in _add_pkg_dep_string allow_unsatisfied) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 3545, in _wrapped_add_pkg_dep_string pkg, dep_priority, root_config, selected_atoms[pkg]): File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 3744, in _minimize_children root_config.root, atom, parent=parent) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 5727, in _select_pkg_highest_available ret = self._select_pkg_highest_available_imp(root, atom, onlydeps=onlydeps, parent=parent) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 5951, in _select_pkg_highest_available_imp root, atom, onlydeps=onlydeps, parent=parent) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 6255, in _wrapped_select_pkg_highest_available_imp onlydeps=onlydeps): File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 5645, in _iter_match_pkgs_atom myrepo=getattr(cpv, 'repo', None)) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/depgraph.py", line 6998, in _pkg metadata = zip(db_keys, db.aux_get(cpv, db_keys, myrepo=myrepo)) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/portage/dbapi/porttree.py", line 614, in aux_get myrepo=myrepo, loop=loop)) File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/portage/dbapi/porttree.py", line 702, in async_aux_get proc.start() File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/AsynchronousTask.py", line 30, in start self._start() File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/EbuildMetadataPhase.py", line 59, in _start self._async_wait() File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/AbstractPollTask.py", line 99, in _async_wait self._unregister() File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/EbuildMetadataPhase.py", line 147, in _unregister self.scheduler.remove_reader(self._files.ebuild) AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'ebuild' ** Please, colud someone help? Thanks Pat> Did you do any searching? Does the suggestion in https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1100660-start-0.html work for you? (I would look for a more recent version than mentioned in that post, as 3.0.20-r6 is the most recent stable version on my system.) Jack Thanks Jack, it works. Pat Freehosting PIPNI - http://www.pipni.cz/
