Re: [gentoo-user] Why bash script, that works in "Debian", does not work on "Gentoo" install CD?
Hi, Rich. On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 16:03:48 -0400, among other, you wrote: > > You should note that nobody with an @gentoo.org game is playing your > 20 questions game either. And that's OK. Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] Removing unnecessary software.
Hi, Neil. On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 20:48:38 +0100, among other, you wrote: > > A profile is only a starting point, a default set of packages and > > USE > flags for common scenarios. It is up to the user/admin to decide which > packages they want to install on each system, so a one size fits all > approach would not be useful. > > If you want to install the same group of packages on multiple > machines, create a set and copy it to /etc/portage/sets. I have a > base set that I install on everything, containing all the things I > always fond useful, and a desktop set for, well, you can probably > guess. The problem i see is that admin. is not free to change the packages set, that is dictated by a profile. -- Like i have pointed out, once i tried to remove SSH (for the example, so that here can be another package, and it was the first (base?) profile), on next system update, it returned and got compiled installed. Another question is how do i change dependencies of one package that i suppose will live happily w/o whole the set of the packages it supposes it needs. -- Like, i want to play only media files, but not to convert them, so, the ffmpeg package, for example, that i do not need at all, gets compiled and installed -- i would trim from dependencies lists of the other packages. -- Thank you for your time, Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] Necessity of installer and complete documentation.
Hi, R0b0t1. On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 20:44:10 -0500, among other, you wrote: > > Not to get away from OP's question, but how good would the installer > need to be before it held the interest of any developers that manage > the website or handbook? > > I ask because the much simpler thing I suggested - fleshing out the > handbook - has been done and redone by some individuals and some of > the guides are truly inspired. Unfortunately, I think it keeps being > redone because these guides are hard to find and because the people > who make them have no way to contribute to the handbook. > > Sakaki's EFI install guide, while very specific, is something that the > majority of people who want to use Linux but don't want to maintain > Portage seem to expect from the handbook. It actually tells them how > to configure most of the things that produce a modern x86 system that > interacts with a user. I mention it because it is the only guide I'm > aware of that has persisted long enough to be indexed by Google that > is also still relevant. > > The problem most people seem to have with Gentoo is not necessarily > the installation process, but knowing what to configure after they > have it installed. That's why documentation is essential. otherwise the work done would be worth just for its creators and for a short time, since time wipes out knowledge. So, as "Gentoo" is distro of choice, the choices should be documented, and to be easily understood/found well structured. but besides documentation many things might be automated -- as we see now: installation and administration (common for "Gentoo" tasks). But i still do not understand why there is no choice of the desired packages but profiles only. I recall the the branch to "Necessity of installer and complete documentation". Thank you for your time, Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Why bash script, that works in "Debian", does not work on "Gentoo" install CD?
Hi, Ian. On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:37:49 -0700, among other, you wrote: > > PROMPT='Enter device (like /dev/sd(a1,b1,...): ' > read -p $PROMPT device On "Debian" it does not work: Entera1 ./об: строка 6: read: «(like»: это недопустимый идентификатор > To the OP: How do you run the script? Are you sure it is bash that > executes it? Are you aware of the fact that /bin/sh on Debian is dash > by default? Script contains #!/bin/bash as first line. -- So it does not matter what is sh on "Debian". Thank you for your time, Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] Why bash script, that works in "Debian", does not work on "Gentoo" install CD?
Hi, Vadim. On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 19:13:17 +0700, among other, you wrote: > > > read 'Enter device (like /dev/sd(a1,b1,...): ' device > > AFAIK, this is not valid syntax for `read` in any shell (even on > Debian. I just checked) Now i see this too even on "Debian" and i can't explain that, since code was first checked on "Debian", then moved to the machine for "Gentoo" installation. where the errors first appeared. Now, both codes are changed -- to still make automate the installation process of Gentoo -- as i did not suppose to check the code here but only to get some probably missing knowledge on Gentoo's bash and installation environment of it. Thank you for your time, Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] Why bash script, that works in "Debian", does not work on "Gentoo" install CD?
Hi, Peter. On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 00:10:41 +0100, among other, you wrote: > > > read 'Enter device (like /dev/sd(a1,b1,...): ' device > > > > Until i remove the brackets, "Gentoo's" bash keeps error > > messaging. > > Which brackets? They aren't matched. I know, but i say what i see. Thank you for your time, Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] Why bash script, that works in "Debian", does not work on "Gentoo" install CD?
Hi, Alexander. On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 15:08:37 +0300, among other, you wrote: > > Alright. Here is an example of the problematic line from the point > of view of "Gentoo's" bash: > > read 'Enter device (like /dev/sd(a1,b1,...): ' device > > Until i remove the brackets, "Gentoo's" bash keeps error messaging. > > > The line from your script above doesn't seem to have a matching right > hand side bracket. Not that i want to discuss the line and the script as whole, but as you noticed... Why it should contain corresponding bracket since it is not code but a text string, more over non-interpolated? -- I can write within apostrophes anything i want. Again, bash complains about unacceptable identification, not the number of brackets. So, corresponding number of brackets does not solve the problem. > Try running your script in trace mode like so, bash -x script, to > further troubleshoot the issue. Thank you for the point and time, Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] Why bash script, that works in "Debian", does not work on "Gentoo" install CD?
Hi, Neil. On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 22:07:31 +0100, among other, you wrote: > > > Mathematics (mother of computers) answers: 1+1=2. -- Meaning: same > > script w/ the same bash gets same execution. > > Except it's not the same bash, you stated that they are different > versions. I do not suppose that versions, that differ just in .1 are too great for syntax. I may err, and may get into 0.1 % of probability that it is the case, but i doubt that it is so. Also, if i have found bug, at least, there is no mention of the bug in the corresponding versions. > > Alright. Here is an example of the problematic line from the point > > of view of "Gentoo's" bash: > > This is what was asked for from the start, and as soon as you provided > it, several people identified a potential problem. It's no use saying > "this doesn't work" if you don't specify "this". I will not play in your wording game, sorry. Thank you for your time, Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] build programs in other distros
Hi, Francisco. On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:07:30 -0300, among other, you wrote: > > How do real developers manage this? And why this difference Make building systems for every target distro OR make so-called "snap packages" -- that include everything the packaged software needs. > > happens, in the Various: package separation, file allocation, system variable value, etc. -- No standards and/or following them by the distro-s in view. Thank you for your time, Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] Why bash script, that works in "Debian", does not work on "Gentoo" install CD?
Hi, Neil. On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 21:43:53 +0100, you wrote: > > How do you know that the contents of the script are not relevant > > when you > don't know what the problem is? It is also useful to know the exact Mathematics (mother of computers) answers: 1+1=2. -- Meaning: same script w/ the same bash gets same execution. > version of bash in use on each system. There are subtle differences, > and bugs, between bash versions. Your script may be tripping up on > one of these. Alright. Here is an example of the problematic line from the point of view of "Gentoo's" bash: read 'Enter device (like /dev/sd(a1,b1,...): ' device Until i remove the brackets, "Gentoo's" bash keeps error messaging. Thank you for your time, Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Why bash script, that works in "Debian", does not work on "Gentoo" install CD?
> There was a bug in historic versions of bash, where it got confused > if the POSIX syntax for command expansion, that is $( ) , occurred > within a case statement. I don't know which version it was where it > got fixed, but I think it wasn't before 4.*. So what versions of > bash do you have on either system? If they aren't the same, > something like this is probably the answer. The versions are: 4.3 and 4.4. So. not the cause. Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] Why bash script, that works in "Debian", does not work on "Gentoo" install CD?
> > and both systems contain bash, that interprets the script, why the > > difference on syntax? > > > > Can you attach to bash script you are running and the exact error > messages? It is hard to say (at least for me) without seeing it; bash > to bash portability issues are something I have never heard of. As a > guess there are a variety of options you can change while running in > the interpreter with the "set" command that can also be set in > configuration files or the command line. Also possible is that the > install CD contains a gimped version of bash, but typically then it's > not called bash. It could also be running it with "set -o posix" for > some reason. The script itself is of not interest -- it is just particulars -- that i can change even right on the target machine, though it is hard to do for many lines and w/o mcedit at least, not to say graphical editor -- w/ the everywhere existing nano! :o) I simply wonder the phenomena. And having not found the answer myself, would ask more experienced users of "Gentoo". > The installation process at its core involves preparing the disks and > then extracting the stage 3 to them. Disk preparation can be > exceedingly complicated and making an automated installer that > supports all possible setups is pretty hard, only fairly recently have > distributions like Debian been able to offer automatic setup of > encrypted LVM volume groups. Some possible configurations (per PV > keys) still aren't supported. It is not always required. So, this part could be done manually still whereas the rest -- automated, like usual installer does. > The other part is creating a kernel. For that there is genkernel, but > it just compiles everything in. I'm not sure that counts as > configuration but it is automatic. Again, nothing keeps us from using several commands to compile customized kernel, starting w/ /usr/bin/make menuconfig > I do think the handbook leaves far too many things out that normal > users would need. I'm trying to compile a list of useful x86/PC > related things to add to the handbook at some point, like useful > default make.conf and portage options. There's also a lot of > configuration files to sort through, documenting files of interest (if > not providing some default configuration for them) is probably a good > idea. Of course! Best practical knowledge should be accumulated in the documentation and included as default presets for the installation or later system administration. You remember, i did rise here question on profile customization? -- So, i thought out that base profiled is too "thick" to be called base or default. I think, only working kernel, package manager and network -- speaking of installed and self booted system -- should be installed and called base/default and from that base all other profiles grow. Also, all those other profiles should not to be as next step to develop and grow the installation, but checklists of packages w/ corresponding checklists of the packages dependencies -- just like "Debian" does for its compiled packages w/ that differences, that choosing process will be followed not downloading and installation only, but compilation also. -- These i call "all about choice", so that user/admin had not to fight w/ the profiles that are totally unnecessary at wide angle of view, but rather add some automation for the lazy -- like client wants KDE suite -- alright, get it -- and so forth. But for the concerned, are those checklists of packages -- when everyone can choose what is desired likewise USE, CFLAGS -- all through checklists, so that the user will not search the web for the well known stuff, but right in the system configuration might see all that is available w/ comments on what and why it does, as well as pros and cons that follow the choices. All this simplifies the process of installation and farther support of systems. Nobody likes to wade through the oceans of routine but rather make something fast, reliable, new, etc. But routine just scares away. Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] Why bash script, that works in "Debian", does not work on "Gentoo" install CD?
>> Why bash script (the install script), that works in "Debian", does
>> not
>> work on "Gentoo" install CD, giving me syntax errors (basically
>> related to '(', ')' and ''')? In the script is the interpreter line
>>
>> #!/bin/bash
> You say that line appears in both scripts, but is it the first line?
> Unaccompanied and not preceded by anything?
Yes, it is just a copy from "Debian".
>> PS Why no semi/full -automatic install script/package in "Gentoo"?
> It doesn't work that way. Gentoo is all about choice, and that
> includes
> choice of what is installed, and where and when. You have to make
> those
> choices. Even choosing what sort of system is installed (multi-lib,
> hardened, synchronised via git or rsync, ...). All in the name of
> flexibility and doing one's own thing.
All those choices could be handled while auto install process -- just
as other distro-s do, only with that exception, that the chosen
packages are compiled first and only then get installed. At least, the
"base" profile (just working kernel, package manager, network) would
fit to get automatically installed "Gentoo" system leaving all the
spectrum of choices behind installation process. -- I do not think it
is wise to spend hours just to configure system before compilation
process itself, reading all the time manual, even let be the
truncated page of that manual. Computers are all about automation, and
trivial process regarding its working should be automated. The best
approach would be checklists of checklists -- similar to kernel's
configuration, that once chosen, gets compiling, installing -- all
automatically. There even sets like all is included -- to bother not
for the unconcerned.
But something tells me the reason of absence of the installer are
much deeper.
Sthu.
[gentoo-user] Why bash script, that works in "Debian", does not work on "Gentoo" install CD?
Hi.
Why bash script (the install script), that works in "Debian", does not
work on "Gentoo" install CD, giving me syntax errors (basically related
to '(', ')' and ''')? In the script is the interpreter line
#!/bin/bash
and both systems contain bash, that interprets the script, why the
difference on syntax?
PS Why no semi/full -automatic install script/package in "Gentoo"?
Thank you for your time,
Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Alsa equalizer won't work
> I started my Debian's experience with Squeeze and ended with Jessie. > No problems with alsa so far. I cannot tolerate systemd and other > non-Unix way concepts that they adopted, so instead of updating to > Stretch I switched to Gentoo. I must say that Gentoo is more time > consuming thing but its flexibility and the level of possible > customization is just amazing. Same here. ALSA never was a problem w/ Debian. -- Even on testing and ever before the "SystemD". So look at your kernel config -- all the drivers are in the kernel. Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] On making customized profile again.
> > Trying to remove several packages from the "common" profile, i did > > copy mine to the same directory w/ that difference, that mine is > > located in /usr/local/portage > > > > instead of "common's" > > /usr/portage > > > > Then i copied > > /usr/portage/profiles/profiles.desc > > > > to > > /usr/local/portage/profiles/profiles.desc > > > > In the "local" file, i copied, in the corresponding section (x86), > > line x86default/linux/x86/13.0/desktop stable > > > > pasted it right after it, and changed just its name: > > x86 default/linux/x86/13.0/customized stable > > > > But, when i run > > eselect profile list > > > > i don't see mine profile enlisted. > > > > So, where did i make mistake? > > Use /etc/portage/profile/ directory for profile customization. Can you explain more on this? -- I do not have such directory, also i can not find in manual how to copy then customize existing profile. Sthu.
[gentoo-user] On making customized profile again.
Hi. Trying to remove several packages from the "common" profile, i did copy mine to the same directory w/ that difference, that mine is located in /usr/local/portage instead of "common's" /usr/portage Then i copied /usr/portage/profiles/profiles.desc to /usr/local/portage/profiles/profiles.desc In the "local" file, i copied, in the corresponding section (x86), line x86 default/linux/x86/13.0/desktop stable pasted it right after it, and changed just its name: x86 default/linux/x86/13.0/customized stable But, when i run eselect profile list i don't see mine profile enlisted. So, where did i make mistake? Thank you for your time, Sthu.
[gentoo-user] How to remove a package from a profile?
Hi. Is it possible to remove a package from a profile? -- I try to remove absolutely unnecessary to me openssh package from default/linux/x86 profile that beside each time necessity to compile, just reduces system security. So, i did mask it, having created an openssh file in /etc/portage/packages.mask dir. Removed already installed package from the system and then tried to update the system. -- Openssh is enlisted to be compiled/installed among other packages! So, what's the recipe here? Thank you for your time, Sthu.
Re: [gentoo-user] To install a testing version of a package on a stable OS installation.
Hi, R0b0t1. On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 19:18:50 -0500, you wrote: > > I run mixed stable and testing packages, and it seems to work very > well. The issues I have had had made me consider switching to entirely > testing (~amd64) because a lot of issues are actually > incompatibilities between stable and testing packages. There are some > people in the IRC channel on Freenode who will recommend the same > thing. I consider security that is more on stable part that on testing, and i do not need whole system to be testing -- just one package that so poorly designed/made that requires for its new version to abandon all the data used for its previous version and make all that data anew! -- So, after that had been done for the new version (on another system), i would use that data for the new version in Gentoo (rather than recreate that data again for old version and then recreate again when new version becomes stable) -- but in Gentoo the program is in testing for now. Thank you for your time, Sthu.
[gentoo-user] To install a testing version of a package on a stable OS installation.
Hi. Is it possible to compile/install a testing version of a package w/ its dependencies on a stable OS installation? -- I mean, if a have stable installation of whole the system, can i compile and install a testing version of single package and the packages this single package depends on? Thank you for your time, Sthu.
[gentoo-user] Xserver: /dev/dri/card0 -- no such file.
Hi. I'm fighting already days the problem of "/dev/dri/card0 -- no such file" (old AGP card, NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440) -- as x-server states in its log file. I have installed my system w/ hardened profile, it's being 32bit-system, and then added x-programs to use it as desktop (i didn't install desktop profile). Also, i didn't notice, that i set up testing version of the distro (~86), and now want not to recompile all it to turn to stable (86). The problem lays -- as i suppose -- in the kernel configuration that does not create the /dev/dri/card0 device, required by x-server. I exhausted all my ideas on which options to turn on to make it create the device. I even compiled the general kernel -- but it was not sufficient for that too. So, do you have any idea on which kernel's configuration option lets kernel to create such a device? Thank you for your time, Sthu.
[gentoo-user] Choosing between system profiles: hardened and desktop for desktop installation.
Hi. I'm new to Gentoo, and before new installation on my PC, keep trying to choose between system profiles. I want to use the PC as desktop, but am concerned on security and minimalism. So, I would like to use the hardened profile and then add the desktop packages, namely openbox w/o any X-session managers -- just logging in w/ text console and then startx. So, is my setup wise, or i miss something because do not know something on the distro. regarding this points of installation? Thank you for your time, Sthu.
