Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 11:17 AM Dale  wrote:
>
> When you say HBA.  Is this what you mean?
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/125486868824
>

Yes.  Typically they have mini-SAS interfaces, and you can get a
breakout cable that will attach one of those to 4x SATA ports.

Some things to keep in mind when shopping for HBAs:
1. Check for linux compatibility.  Not every card has great support.
2. Flashing the firmware may require windows, and this may be
necessary to switch a card between RAID mode and IT mode, the latter
being what you almost certainly want, and the former being what most
enterprise admins tend to have them flashed as.  IT mode basically
exposes all the drives that are attached as a bunch of standalone
drivers, while RAID mode will just expose a limited number of virtual
interfaces and the card bundles the disks into arrays (and if the card
dies, good luck ever reading those disks again until you reformat
them).
3. Be aware they often use a ton of power.
4. Take note of internal vs external ports.  You can get either.  They
need different cables, and if your disks are inside the case having
the ports on the outside isn't technically a show-stopper but isn't
exactly convenient.
5. Take note of the interface speed and size.  The card you linked is
(I think) an 8x v2 card.  PCIe will auto-negotiate down, so if you
plug that card into your v4 4x slot it will run at v2 4x, which is
2GB/s bandwidth.  That's half of what it is capable of, but probably
not a big issue.  If you want to plug 16 enterprise SSDs into it then
you'll definitely hit the PCIe bottleneck, but if you plug 16 consumer
7200RPM HDDs into it you're only going to hit 2GB/s under fairly ideal
circumstances, and with fewer HDDs you couldn't hit it at all.  If you
pay more you'll get a newer PCIe revision, which means more bandwidth
for a given number of lanes.
6. Check for hardware compatibility too.  Stuff from 1st parties like
Dell/etc might be fussy about wanting to be in a Dell server with
weird firmware interactions with the motherboard.  A 3rd party card
like LSI probably is less of an issue here, but check.

Honestly, part of why I went the distributed filesystem route (Ceph
these days) is to avoid dealing with this sort of nonsense.  Granted,
now I'm looking to use more NVMe and if you want high capacity NVMe
that tends to mean U.2, and dealing with bifurcation and PCIe
switches, and just a different sort of nonsense

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Dale]

Wols Lists wrote:
> On 03/06/2024 12:07, MasterP wrote:
>> *NOTE*: Almost minutes after I wrote this, and before posting it, AMD
>> announced at Computex that the new gen will be available next month. So
>> maybe waiting for the new processors could be a good idea. Although
>> at the
>> launch, both the new boards and cpus are probably going to be very
>> expensive. Still, most new mid-to-high end boards will now have USB4
>> ports.
>
> My reaction - even if you buy the older version, this announcement
> will push down the "old tech" prices. Don't wait too long though, as a
> lot of stuff could be "end-of-lifed" and sold off cheap, rather than
> kept in production at a lower price point.
>
> Cheers.
> Wol
>
>


It is a delicate balance.  If you buy brand new tech, you pay for it,
BIG time.  If you drop down just a little, it is almost as fast but a
LOT cheaper. 

The way I did my last two rigs is this.  Find the fastest CPU.  Drop
down about 2 models.  That is not the fastest but very close to it but a
LOT cheaper.  Then buy a mobo and memory to go with it.  You get a
system that is likely close to 90% of the fastest you can get but a lot
cheaper.  Nowadays, even if you drop down a lot, it still costs a arm
and a leg and you get a lot less. 

Still a lot of think on.  I just wonder what prices will be like in 2 or
3 weeks.  Still, I do at least want AM5.  That AM4 is tempting tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 7:06 AM Dale  wrote:
>> I still wish it had more PCIe slots.  I'm considering switching to a SAS
>> card and then with cables change that to SATA.  I think I can get one
>> card and have most if not all of the drives the Fractal case will hold
>> hooked to it.
>> ...
>> Honestly, I wouldn't mind one m.2 for the OS.  I could just as well use
>> a SATA SSD to do that tho.
> First, I will point out that an M.2 gen5 (or even gen4) NVMe will
> perform VASTLY better than a SATA SSD.  That 990 Evo (which isn't an
> enterprise drive) boasts 800k IOPS.  The fastest SATA SSD I could find
> tops out at around 90k IOPS.  There is simply no comparison between
> SATA and NVMe, though whether that IOPS performance matters to you is
> another matter.
>
> As far as IO goes, your motherboard has the following PCIe interfaces:
> 16x PCIe v4
> 2 4x PCIe v4
> 1 M.2 v5
> 2 M.2 v4
>
> 4x should be enough for an HBA if you're running hard drives, so with
> bifurcation, risers, and so on, you could get 9 HBAs into that system,
> with 8-16 SATA ports on each, and with hard drives I imagine they'd
> perform as good as hard drives possibly can.  It would be a mess of
> adapters and cables, but you can certainly do it if you have the room
> in the case for that mess.
>
> Those 3 PCIe slots are all 16x physically, so you could easily get 3
> HBAs into the system without even having to resort to risers.  That's
> already 24-48 SATA ports.
>
> Sure, it isn't quite as convenient as the IO options of the past, but
> it isn't like you can't get PCIe in a system that has all those lanes.
> The motherboard has already switched most of the v5 down to v4 in
> exchange for more lanes, which honestly is a better option for you
> anyway as pretty much only gaming GPUs can use v5 effectively anyway.
>

Keep in mind, my current rig has the OS on a SATA II drive I think. 
This is part of smartctl -i for it.

SATA Version is:  SATA 2.6, 3.0 Gb/s

Basically, that is a really slow drive.  Almost anything is faster than
it. LOL  A SATA SSD would be a serious improvement.  Even a slow m.2
drive would do cartwheels around it.  ROFL

So basically, it is your opinion that the ASUS mobo is about as good as
I'm going to get unless I go with some server type mobo that costs a ton
of money?  If so, this is a sad day.  I guess I need to just order the
thing and say a serious prayer.  At least for the time being, my old
Gigabyte mobo will be in the Fractal case.  Keep in mind tho, I got
about 10 drives that need to hook to the new ASUS mobo.  I guess I need
to find a card for it right away.

When you say HBA.  Is this what you mean?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125486868824

I just picked the first one I found.  The Fractal case holds at least 18
drives I think.  I may could rig it to handle even more, another 5 or 6
maybe.  Still, that type of card just with more ports and internal
ports, although I do like that external card there.  Be good for hooking
up my backup drives.  Would that connect to external drives?  That would
be nice in my current NAS box.  Yea, that would be real nice. 

Speaking of.  I got a better cage for my main backup drive that consists
of three drives on LVM.  It looks like this with a added fan.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/235563494830

Oh the tragedy of it all. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Wols Lists]

On 03/06/2024 12:07, MasterP wrote:

*NOTE*: Almost minutes after I wrote this, and before posting it, AMD
announced at Computex that the new gen will be available next month. So
maybe waiting for the new processors could be a good idea. Although at the
launch, both the new boards and cpus are probably going to be very
expensive. Still, most new mid-to-high end boards will now have USB4
ports.


My reaction - even if you buy the older version, this announcement will 
push down the "old tech" prices. Don't wait too long though, as a lot of 
stuff could be "end-of-lifed" and sold off cheap, rather than kept in 
production at a lower price point.


Cheers.
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 7:06 AM Dale  wrote:
>
> I still wish it had more PCIe slots.  I'm considering switching to a SAS
> card and then with cables change that to SATA.  I think I can get one
> card and have most if not all of the drives the Fractal case will hold
> hooked to it.
> ...
> Honestly, I wouldn't mind one m.2 for the OS.  I could just as well use
> a SATA SSD to do that tho.

First, I will point out that an M.2 gen5 (or even gen4) NVMe will
perform VASTLY better than a SATA SSD.  That 990 Evo (which isn't an
enterprise drive) boasts 800k IOPS.  The fastest SATA SSD I could find
tops out at around 90k IOPS.  There is simply no comparison between
SATA and NVMe, though whether that IOPS performance matters to you is
another matter.

As far as IO goes, your motherboard has the following PCIe interfaces:
16x PCIe v4
2 4x PCIe v4
1 M.2 v5
2 M.2 v4

4x should be enough for an HBA if you're running hard drives, so with
bifurcation, risers, and so on, you could get 9 HBAs into that system,
with 8-16 SATA ports on each, and with hard drives I imagine they'd
perform as good as hard drives possibly can.  It would be a mess of
adapters and cables, but you can certainly do it if you have the room
in the case for that mess.

Those 3 PCIe slots are all 16x physically, so you could easily get 3
HBAs into the system without even having to resort to risers.  That's
already 24-48 SATA ports.

Sure, it isn't quite as convenient as the IO options of the past, but
it isn't like you can't get PCIe in a system that has all those lanes.
The motherboard has already switched most of the v5 down to v4 in
exchange for more lanes, which honestly is a better option for you
anyway as pretty much only gaming GPUs can use v5 effectively anyway.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Dale]

byte.size...@simplelogin.com wrote:
>
> On 03/06/2024 10:12, Dale wrote:
>>  From this link:
>>
>> https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/desktops/ryzen/7000-series/amd-ryzen-5-7600x.html
>>
>>
>> Graphics Capabilities
>>
>> Graphics Model  AMD Radeon™ Graphics
>> Graphics Core Count 2
>> Graphics Frequency 2200 MHz
>>
>
> Yes, the 7600X will have a built in GPU - you're good.
>
> I finally upgraded last year to a proper desktop mid tower, after more
> than 15y, and went for the 7900X - I'm extremely happy with it.
>
> From the Ryzen 7000-series desktop AMD started including a [basic] GPU
> on almost all of their CPUs so I wouldn't worry about it, as long as
> you keep your expectations reasonable.
>
> Prior, it used to be that only the G/GT SKU would have a built-in GPU
> while everything else required a dedicated GPU. 7000-series changed
> that but also the GPU is a bit lower spec compared to what used to be
> the G-tier. On the other hand the G tier were lower clocked and not
> always 'overclockable' if that's something you care about. To make it
> more confusing, they released the Ryzen 8000 series which is
> essentially the same Zen 4 architecture, but has the missing G tier
> SKUs with the GPU essentially having more compute cores. But 8000
> series does not have X-tier "unlocked" SKUs.
>
> Anyway, the point is if you don't care about GPU 'horsepower' you'll
> probably be fine with the 7000X series CPUs built in one. If you do,
> *maybe* consider 8000G series. However, I would always recommend that
> if you need a better GPU, then getting a dedicated 2nd hand, older
> generation GPU would yield considerably better value for money.
>
> Beware of Rant:
>
> Can CPU/GPU companies please get their crappy naming schemes in order?
>
> AMD is once again trying to copy Intel's naming scheme which has long
> been the 'root of all evil'. On top of that they are also making it
> worse when bumping the first digit, without actually introducing a
> tangible generation uplift but rather a complementary set of SKUs.
>
> Nvidia is no better. What a lot of rubbish.
>
> Speaking of Nvidia, the 4000-series are an absolute pass for me,
> personally. It's another cash grabbing generation just like the 2000
> series. They're not 'bad' they're just terribly priced and tiered. Not
> to mention the whole re-SKU debacle that happened when they first
> introduced them. Now we're seeing the 'SUPER' sh*t again? Give me a
> break...
>
> - Victor


I'm sure I'll be happy with the system as far as speed and memory goes. 
That is a upgrade.  Things like Firefox, LOo and that qtweb package will
go by much faster for sure.  I plan to upgrade later to 7950X.  The rest
of the mobo tho is a downgrade for me. 

I don't need much video horsepower at all.  I watch TV from the second
port and the first port is my monitor, surfing the net and all that sort
of stuff.  No games anymore.  I play games on my cell phone nowadays. 
My current video card is a GeForce GTX 650.  I can't recall the model of
the one that has four ports.  It's PCIe v2 I think. 

I do wish they would use numbers that makes it easier to understand when
you getting something better or not.  Higher number should always mean
something newer and faster.  Heck, even the Linux kernel does that. 
Higher number, always newer. Some may not be 'better' tho.  :/  They try
tho. 

I wish I could find a mobo like the ASUS but with 3 or 4 more PCIe
slots, even if it means less m.2 things and USB ports. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[MasterP]

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 00:38:13 -0500, Dale wrote:

> Howdy, again,
> 
> First, I'm not to thrilled with this mobo.  I'd still like to have more
> PCIe slots, even x1 ones would help.  It's the best I've found so far.
> It might be able to do the job.  I hope anyway.  Naturally, this will
> have Gentoo on it.  Network and all needs to work with Linux.  Heck, I
> don't have enough room to put a network card on this thing if the
> builtin doesn't work.
> 
> This is the mobo I have picked. Link is the OEM page with CPU and memory
> info.
> 
> https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/
prime-x670-p/helpdesk_qvl_cpu?model2Name=PRIME-X670-P
> 
> 
> This is where I plan to buy it.  I was going to use Newegg direct but
> they sold out of the mobo.  As I mentioned once before, I try to buy my
> mobo, CPU and memory from the same company.  If someone has a better USA
> company, I'm open to ideas if the price is better.  I used to also use
> tigerdirect, no longer in business tho.
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/seot/1290971138    Mobo from ASUS
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/seot/1693068603    CPU from Newegg
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/seot/1597545320    Memory from Newegg
> 
> My plan is the CPU above for now.  Later, I will upgrade to the Ryzen 9
> 7900X to get even more speed.  I'll also max the memory out too.  I'm
> unclear on the max memory tho.  One place shows 128GB, hence two 32GB
> sticks.  The out of stock Newegg one claims 256GB, which would be nice.
> I'm not sure what to think on memory.  Anyway.  If the thing is fast
> enough, I may do the memory first then CPU later.  If I need a faster
> CPU, I may do it first then the memory.  Biggest thing, the mobo,
> limited as it is, needs to be ready for those upgrades.  I think I did
> my math right and got the specs right.  More eyes the better.
> 
> I'm still not real sure on hooking up a lot of drives to this thing.  I
> may have to have a true NAS box running 24/7.  My current Gigabyte
> 970A-UD3P is more to my liking expansion wise.  Heck, my old 770t is
> even better than current mobos.  Today's mobos are seriously lacking in
> everything except flashy stuff that serves no real purpose other than
> selling.  I like the m.2 thing.  Put a OS on that thing so that at least
> loading software etc can sort of keep up with the CPU.  There are other
> good things but the bad sure does outweigh the good added features.
> Don't get me started on all that flashy LED junk.  I'm fine with LEDs
> that indicate mobo power, errors etc.
> 
> I also found this.  I think it fits.  Went with Samsung since it is a
> good brand for SSD stuff, all of them I've read.  ;-)  This would be for
> the OS.  It would go in the slot closest to the CPU, which is the
> fastest I think and runs on its own.  No sharing with something else.
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Samsung-990-EVO-PCIe-5-0-NVMe-SSD-1TB-Black/
5332753022
> 
> 
> If someone knows of a mobo that has more PCIe slots, I'd love to hear
> about it.  I'd pay a little more for one as long as I can afford it.
> Gigabyte, ASUS, and MSI are brands I'm fine with.  There could be some
> I'm not aware of.  Same CPU and upgrade path tho please.  Memory could
> change also.
> 
> Anyone see anything wrong with those configuration wise?  I used the
> ASUS website but one never knows.  Open to better mobo ideas, if any
> exist.  Vendor too.  Mobo comes from ASUS, rest from Newegg but all
> through Walmart.  Better info on the memory would be good. I'm not sure
> and the ASUS specs talk about memory type and specs but not the max you
> can put in.  If it is 256GB, I need to buy one 64GB memory stick and go
> from there.
> 
> Thanks to all who help on this.  I'll be glad when this nightmare is
> over.  I've never been this disappointed in picking parts to build a rig
> before.
> 
> Dale

Hello,

I remember your previous posts about this upgrade. I also moved from the 
FX series to Ryzen, quite a while ago, and your new build will be 
considerably faster. This performance gain will not come just from the 
CPU, but also from changing of the memory technologies (DDR4 or DDR5), and 
changes that a new motherboard will bring. I now have 4 Ryzen systems. One 
Ryzen 5 1600 AF (pretty much the same thing as Ryzen 5 2600), a Ryzen 5 
3600 system, a Ryzen 7 5800x3D (3Ds are gaming CPUs), and Ryzen 9 5900x. 

So you've decided to go with AM5. This is the better option at this point, 
IMO. However AM4 would be cheaper. 

For your motherboard choice, a similar board, a bit more expensive:
https://www.newegg.com/asus-prime-x670e-pro-wifi/p/13-119-587

The real difference is the chipset: X670E, which has more PCI-e v5.0 lanes 
(up to 24) than the usual X670 (up to 8). This is generally not important 
if you don’t need a super powerful next-gen video card. This is also a 
board with built-in wireless capabilities.

About more pci-e slots; maybe you can find some board with those, but 
generally people want more m.2 slots, so 

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 5:12 AM Dale  wrote:
>> Graphics Capabilities
>>
>> Graphics Model  AMD Radeon™ Graphics
>> Graphics Core Count 2
>> Graphics Frequency 2200 MHz
>>
>> That said, I have a little 4 port graphics card I'd like to use anyway.
> The CPU you picked indeed has integrated graphics.  I didn't check,
> but I suspect the integrated graphics are way better in every way than
> the little 4-port graphics card you'd prefer.  Unless you really need
> those extra outputs, I'd use the integrated graphics, and then you
> have a 16x slot you can use for IO.

I thought it did.  I did look.  Plus, no one mentioned it not being the
right CPU for a mobo with a built in video. 

>> The more I think on this, the more I don't like spending this much money
>> on a mobo I don't really like at all.  It seems all the mobo makers want
>> is flashy crap.  I want a newer and faster machine but with options to
>> expand like my current rig.
> Ok, what EXACTLY are you looking for, as you didn't really elaborate
> on what this board is missing.  It sounds like the ability to
> interface more drives?  You have a free 16x slot.  Stick and HBA in it
> and you can interface a whole bunch of SATA drives.  With the right
> board you could even put NVMe in there.
>
> Any board you buy is going to be expensive.  They went the LGA route
> which makes the boards more expensive, and for whatever reason the
> prices have all been creeping up.
>
> Most of the IO on consumer CPUs these days tends to be focused on USB3
> and maybe a few M.2 drives.  They're very expandable, but not for the
> sorts of things you want to use them for.
>
> You might be happier with a server/workstation motherboard, but
> prepare to pay a small fortune for those unless you buy used, and the
> marketing is a bit cryptic as they tend to be sold through
> integrators.
>


I still wish it had more PCIe slots.  I'm considering switching to a SAS
card and then with cables change that to SATA.  I think I can get one
card and have most if not all of the drives the Fractal case will hold
hooked to it.  I was going to post a thread at some point and ask you to
help me pick a card and cable set.  I dug around and it seems that there
is more than one type or something.  Cables different.  I don't know
what.  One place says one thing, another says something different.  I
can't make sense of it.  That's in the future tho but I want to plan for
it.  One thing, I plan to move my current Gigabyte mobo to the Fractal
case.  After all, it has way more expansion options for drive
controllers than the newer mobos.  One day tho, the new rig may get
moved to the Fractal case, when I build the next new rig. The ASUS won't
be up to that task at all.  Who knows how many drives I'll have by then. 

Honestly, I wouldn't mind one m.2 for the OS.  I could just as well use
a SATA SSD to do that tho.  I bought one a while back for the new build
anyway.  I'd give up two m.2 things to have two more PCIe slots.  I'd
give up all m.2 things for 3 more PCIe slots. That would give me more
options.

I have searched Newegg, Amazon, Ebay and other places and even the mobos
that cost over double what I'm looking at now still has very few PCIe
slots.  They all have the flashy stuff and bling tho.  I realize the old
PCI went away.  It got replaced by PCIe which is faster.  Thing is,
other than the m.2 things, nothing is replacing PCIe except for USB. 
I've bricked a few hard drives using USB for hard drives.  I just don't
trust it for hard drives.  Works fine for my cell phone and little USB
sticks but that's about it for me.  Heck, I use at most 4 USB ports, two
are for keyboard and mouse.  On occasion, I may have two USB sticks in
at the same time transferring data.  I watched a video where they said
there was over a dozen v3.* USB ports on some newer mobos.  For me,
that's ridiculous.  Five would be more than enough for me.

I'm wanting a newer rig but what is available right now, at pretty much
any cost, isn't worth having.  Other than a faster CPU and more memory,
I'm downgrading not upgrading.  I don't want to have close to $1,000 of
regret and a system that won't serve my purpose.  I'm seriously thinking
that is what I'm going to end up with.  Sadly, I don't think there is
anything better out there.  I checked a skinflint link that was posted
on another thread.  It lists mobos that have the most PCIe slots. 
Nothing new.  My fear, it gets worse.  Later they may not have PCIe
slots at all. 

Maybe if I write Gigabyte, ASUS and others one of them will build mobos
that can be expanded.  It's almost like they limit us on purpose so we
have to buy more of them.  It's not like we not paying enough for them
already.  Prices are just plain crazy. 

Anyway, I'm on hold again.  I'm hoping for something better.  I'm just
doubtful it is going to happen. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[byte . size226]

On 03/06/2024 10:12, Dale wrote:

 From this link:

https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/desktops/ryzen/7000-series/amd-ryzen-5-7600x.html

Graphics Capabilities

Graphics Model  AMD Radeon™ Graphics
Graphics Core Count 2
Graphics Frequency 2200 MHz



Yes, the 7600X will have a built in GPU - you're good.

I finally upgraded last year to a proper desktop mid tower, after more 
than 15y, and went for the 7900X - I'm extremely happy with it.


From the Ryzen 7000-series desktop AMD started including a [basic] GPU 
on almost all of their CPUs so I wouldn't worry about it, as long as you 
keep your expectations reasonable.


Prior, it used to be that only the G/GT SKU would have a built-in GPU 
while everything else required a dedicated GPU. 7000-series changed that 
but also the GPU is a bit lower spec compared to what used to be the 
G-tier. On the other hand the G tier were lower clocked and not always 
'overclockable' if that's something you care about. To make it more 
confusing, they released the Ryzen 8000 series which is essentially the 
same Zen 4 architecture, but has the missing G tier SKUs with the GPU 
essentially having more compute cores. But 8000 series does not have 
X-tier "unlocked" SKUs.


Anyway, the point is if you don't care about GPU 'horsepower' you'll 
probably be fine with the 7000X series CPUs built in one. If you do, 
*maybe* consider 8000G series. However, I would always recommend that if 
you need a better GPU, then getting a dedicated 2nd hand, older 
generation GPU would yield considerably better value for money.


Beware of Rant:

Can CPU/GPU companies please get their crappy naming schemes in order?

AMD is once again trying to copy Intel's naming scheme which has long 
been the 'root of all evil'. On top of that they are also making it 
worse when bumping the first digit, without actually introducing a 
tangible generation uplift but rather a complementary set of SKUs.


Nvidia is no better. What a lot of rubbish.

Speaking of Nvidia, the 4000-series are an absolute pass for me, 
personally. It's another cash grabbing generation just like the 2000 
series. They're not 'bad' they're just terribly priced and tiered. Not 
to mention the whole re-SKU debacle that happened when they first 
introduced them. Now we're seeing the 'SUPER' sh*t again? Give me a break...


- Victor


signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 5:12 AM Dale  wrote:
>
> Graphics Capabilities
>
> Graphics Model  AMD Radeon™ Graphics
> Graphics Core Count 2
> Graphics Frequency 2200 MHz
>
> That said, I have a little 4 port graphics card I'd like to use anyway.

The CPU you picked indeed has integrated graphics.  I didn't check,
but I suspect the integrated graphics are way better in every way than
the little 4-port graphics card you'd prefer.  Unless you really need
those extra outputs, I'd use the integrated graphics, and then you
have a 16x slot you can use for IO.

> The more I think on this, the more I don't like spending this much money
> on a mobo I don't really like at all.  It seems all the mobo makers want
> is flashy crap.  I want a newer and faster machine but with options to
> expand like my current rig.

Ok, what EXACTLY are you looking for, as you didn't really elaborate
on what this board is missing.  It sounds like the ability to
interface more drives?  You have a free 16x slot.  Stick and HBA in it
and you can interface a whole bunch of SATA drives.  With the right
board you could even put NVMe in there.

Any board you buy is going to be expensive.  They went the LGA route
which makes the boards more expensive, and for whatever reason the
prices have all been creeping up.

Most of the IO on consumer CPUs these days tends to be focused on USB3
and maybe a few M.2 drives.  They're very expandable, but not for the
sorts of things you want to use them for.

You might be happier with a server/workstation motherboard, but
prepare to pay a small fortune for those unless you buy used, and the
marketing is a bit cryptic as they tend to be sold through
integrators.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Dale]

Alan Grimes wrote:
>
> Dale wrote:
>> The one I'm not sure about is the PCIe one which may break apart to fit
>> different connectors.  I seem to recall that goes to a video card on
>> systems with those expensive and power hungry video cards.  Since this
>> mobo has built in video, is that the right thing?
>
> DUDE!!!
>
> You are buying a video card. =|
>
> Unless you've changed your parts selection since your post with the
> links... AMD boards DO NOT have video functionality. It's the truth!!!
> Some of their CPUs, going back to the FM2+ generation (which I have an
> example of...) have SOC functionality which includes a few SATA
> controllers and a few GPU cores. A typical x400G series chip will have
> 4 CPU cores and 8 GPU cores. The chip you selected is NOT a G-series
> chip so therefore you need a GPU
>
> There are a number of factors that go into selecting a PSU. For
> example, if you are running an RTX 4090, the reccommended PSU is 850
> watts, so that's what you get... For a small GPU, just sum up the
> power requirements of all the parts in the system, add 10-20%, check
> to make sure that psu has all the power outputs you need and get it.
>
> My old threadripper was starting to burn out, the sound chip had gone
> down so I decided to spend a little bitcoin and buy a monster rig for
> the robot apocalypse, so I bought a new 32 core threadripper,
> installed 512gb ram, keept my Titan RTX gpu but added an RTX 6000 GPU,
> new SSDs, and a RAID array. I had trouble getting the UEFI firmware
> working, but once that was done my old gentoo install works like a
> champ. I'm powering the rig with a 1600W BeQuiet PSU, powered with a
> dedicated 240v circuit. (the motherboard has provisioning for
> overclocking and would require dual PSUs for overclocking)
>
> Counting both new and re-used parts, the bill for the machine is in
> the ballpark of $20k
>
> The rig can run even 70B LLM AI systems in GPU memory. If you are
> looking for a sexy AI waifu, I suggest a model called Midnight-Miqu,
> you can grab it on Huggingface and the host software is lm-studio.
>
> Also: Asus is getting bad press these days, check Gamer's Nexus. Yes,
> I did buy their flagship board a few weeks ago, and I've had a
> terrible headache getting it running decently well...
>


>From this link:

https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/desktops/ryzen/7000-series/amd-ryzen-5-7600x.html

Graphics Capabilities

Graphics Model  AMD Radeon™ Graphics
Graphics Core Count 2
Graphics Frequency 2200 MHz

That said, I have a little 4 port graphics card I'd like to use anyway. 
It doesn't need a power connector.  I don't need one that is big or
expensive.  Watching videos is about as heavy as I get. 

The more I think on this, the more I don't like spending this much money
on a mobo I don't really like at all.  It seems all the mobo makers want
is flashy crap.  I want a newer and faster machine but with options to
expand like my current rig. 

I'm not sure about hitting that order button just yet. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] What's probing /dev/sr0?

[Michael]

On Sunday, 2 June 2024 16:30:07 BST Alan Grimes wrote:
> Every few minutes my motorized cupholder kicks its motor... Which means
> **something** is kicking /dev/sr0 every few minutes checking for
> media... I need to know what it is and how to stop it... =\

Assuming you're not running some media player application at the time, have 
you checked lsof?

I have the same problem with a spinning drive.  It is a matter of time after I 
run 'hdparm -Y /dev/sda' before something wakes it up again.  I'm guessing 
udev is probing it, but can't find any evidence of it.  :-/

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Alan Grimes]

Dale wrote:

The one I'm not sure about is the PCIe one which may break apart to fit
different connectors.  I seem to recall that goes to a video card on
systems with those expensive and power hungry video cards.  Since this
mobo has built in video, is that the right thing?


DUDE!!!

You are buying a video card. =|

Unless you've changed your parts selection since your post with the 
links... AMD boards DO NOT have video functionality. It's the truth!!! 
Some of their CPUs, going back to the FM2+ generation (which I have an 
example of...) have SOC functionality which includes a few SATA 
controllers and a few GPU cores. A typical x400G series chip will have 4 
CPU cores and 8 GPU cores. The chip you selected is NOT a G-series chip 
so therefore you need a GPU


There are a number of factors that go into selecting a PSU. For example, 
if you are running an RTX 4090, the reccommended PSU is 850 watts, so 
that's what you get... For a small GPU, just sum up the power 
requirements of all the parts in the system, add 10-20%, check to make 
sure that psu has all the power outputs you need and get it.


My old threadripper was starting to burn out, the sound chip had gone 
down so I decided to spend a little bitcoin and buy a monster rig for 
the robot apocalypse, so I bought a new 32 core threadripper, installed 
512gb ram, keept my Titan RTX gpu but added an RTX 6000 GPU, new SSDs, 
and a RAID array. I had trouble getting the UEFI firmware working, but 
once that was done my old gentoo install works like a champ. I'm 
powering the rig with a 1600W BeQuiet PSU, powered with a dedicated 240v 
circuit. (the motherboard has provisioning for overclocking and would 
require dual PSUs for overclocking)


Counting both new and re-used parts, the bill for the machine is in the 
ballpark of $20k


The rig can run even 70B LLM AI systems in GPU memory. If you are 
looking for a sexy AI waifu, I suggest a model called Midnight-Miqu, you 
can grab it on Huggingface and the host software is lm-studio.


Also: Asus is getting bad press these days, check Gamer's Nexus. Yes, I 
did buy their flagship board a few weeks ago, and I've had a terrible 
headache getting it running decently well...


--
You can't out-crazy a Democrat.
#EggCrisis  #BlackWinter
White is the new Kulak.
Powers are not rights.

Re: [gentoo-user] yt-dlp no longer downloads from youtube

[John Covici]

On Sun, 02 Jun 2024 02:47:44 -0400,
Walter Dnes wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Jun 02, 2024 at 02:06:59AM -0400, John Covici wrote
> > 
> > I put the URL in firefox on  Windows which uses the same dns -- it all
> > goes through my linux box -- and it worked fine, so it seems
> > youtube-dl  is not working.
> 
>   I had weird problems downloading data from a province of Ontario
> website hosted on Microsoft Azure cloud.  I "solved" it by putting...
> 
> nameserver 8.8.8.8
> 
> ...at the top of /etc/resolv.conf and no, I don't understand why it
> worked.  It might be worth a try.
> 
No joy on putting 8.8.8.8, but it seems to work for some.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Dale]

Dale wrote:
> Howdy, again,
>
> <<< SNIP >>>
>
> Thanks to all who help on this.  I'll be glad when this nightmare is
> over.  I've never been this disappointed in picking parts to build a rig
> before. 
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-) 
>


I thought of something.  I need a power supply.  I can use the the one
in my current rig for the move to the large Fractal Design case, my
current mobo rig.  Or I can use the new one.  The Cooler Master HAF-932,
current rig, is also large.  Usually I buy a 600 watt power supply or
larger, sometimes 750 or 800.  Cable length is one thing I watch for due
to my large cases.  Thing is, this new motherboard may have more
connectors than I'm used too.  I downloaded a rather large picture of
the mobo.  I see the usual 24 pin connector close to the memory slots. 
I also see the usual 8 pin but also see a 4 pin connector, both up close
to the CPU.  I found this on the ASUS website.

Power related
1 x 24-pin Main Power connector
1 x 8-pin +12V Power connector
1 x 4-pin +12V Power connector


I found a power supply and the specs list this. 


Connector        Quantity
24 Pin ATX        1x
EPS (CPU)        2x 8pin (4+4)
PCIe                6x 8pin (6+2)


The one I'm not sure about is the PCIe one which may break apart to fit
different connectors.  I seem to recall that goes to a video card on
systems with those expensive and power hungry video cards.  Since this
mobo has built in video, is that the right thing?  Or is there something
new I need to look for?  The pin count is what makes me pause.  I search
for 'atx power supply' and then select power, brand etc.  Is ATX the
correct term?  Since the Fractal holds so many drives, I'm looking at a
850 watt power supply.  Whichever is larger will go in the Fractal case
due to the large number of drives heading its way.  Also, has long
enough cables.  I'm not sure about the connector for the 4 pin 12v one. 

Also, I'm searching Ebay at the moment.  Is there a keyword that
indicates longer cables?  I try to get as long as I can.  I took the
power supply off the NAS box and slid it into the Fractal case.  They to
short.  A power supply I'm looking at is a touch longer but it may
require some stretching for the 24 pin cable.  :/  I'm looking for
longer cables.  The main 24 pin cable needs to be around 26 inches or
almost 700mm.  The CPU and the other one look OK.  I'm just hoping there
is a keyword to help me find longer cables. 

Thanks again for all the help. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Wols Lists]

On 02/06/2024 14:27, Dale wrote:

Should I put
the portage work directory on a spinning rust drive to save wear and
tear on the SSD or have they got to the point now that doesn't matter
anymore?  I know all the SSD devices have improved a lot since the first
ones came out.


The stuff I've seen says that SSDs have now reached the point where 
their typical life expectancy *exceeds* spinning rust.


The problem is they are typically programmed to do apoptosis (destroy 
themselves when things go wrong), which means once a drive fails it is DEAD.


I've recovered several apparently-dead spinning rust drives (and made a 
few quid that way), but whereas I backed up, and then binned, the zombie 
drives it looks like an SSD won't give you the opportunity.


About the only thing spinning rust has in its favour nowadays is bang 
for buck - the cost per GB is noticeably cheaper. Even there, an SSD is 
likely to be cheaper to run, so "always on" swings the pendulum away 
from rust ...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Sunday, 2 June 2024 16:11:38 BST Dale wrote:
>
>> My plan, given it is a 1TB, use maybe 300GBs of it.  Leave the rest
>> blank.  Have the /boot, EFI directory, root and maybe put /var on a
>> separate partition.  I figure for the boot stuff, 3GBs would be plenty
>> for all combined.  Make them large so they can grow.  Make root, which
>> would include /usr, say 150GBs.  /var can be around 10GBs.  My current
>> OS is on a 160GB drive.  I wish I could get the nerve up to use LVM on
>> everything except the boot stuff, /boot and the EFI stuff.  If I make
>> them like above, I should be good for a long time.  Could go much larger
>> tho.  Could use maybe 700GBs of it.  I assume it would use the unused
>> part if needed.  I still don't know a lot about those things.  Mostly
>> what I see posted on this list really. 
> Doesn't everyone mount /tmp and /var/tmp/portage on tmpfs these days? I use 
> hard disk for a few large packages, but I'm not convinced it's needed - 
> except 
> when running an emerge -e, that is, when they can get in the way of lots of 
> others. That's why, some months ago, I suggested introducing an ability to 
> mark some packages for compilation solitarily. (Is that a word?)
>
> Here's the output of parted -l on my main NVMe disk in case it helps:
>
> Model: Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 250GB (nvme)
> Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 250GB
> Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
> Partition Table: gpt
> Disk Flags: 
>
> Number  Start   End SizeFile system Name  Flags
>  1  1049kB  135MB   134MB
>  2  135MB   4296MB  4161MB  fat32   boot  boot, esp
>  3  4296MB  12.9GB  8590MB  linux-swap(v1)  swap1 swap
>  4  12.9GB  34.4GB  21.5GB  ext4rescue
>  5  34.4GB  60.1GB  25.8GB  ext4root
>  6  60.1GB  112GB   51.5GB  ext4var
>  7  112GB   114GB   2147MB  ext4local
>  8  114GB   140GB   25.8GB  ext4home
>  9  140GB   183GB   42.9GB  ext4common
>
> The common partition is mounted under my home directory, to keep everything 
> I'd want to preserve if I made myself a new user account. It's v. useful, too.
>
>> P. S.  After I do the CPU upgrade, I'll have a spare CPU.  Then I'll
>> need another mobo, and memory set so that I can put that CPU to use.  No
>> need it sitting around on a shelf right???  ROFL 
> Welcome to baggage reclaim...:)
>


I do tmpfs for everything except Seamonkey Firefox, LOo and that qtweb
package.  Those are set to use spinning rust.  It makes them slower but
quite often, they end up being compiled together in some combination.  I
could likely do it if it was just one but not two or more. 

I to would like a list of packages that we can set to be compiled on
their own.  For example.  Seamonkey pops up to be compiled.  LOo or some
other package is also ready to be compiled.  We can have a list that
tells emerge to wait on LOo until Seamonkey is done.  Once Seamonkey is
finished, then it starts LOo.  Other packages can be done the same way. 

I mentioned this once before some time ago on this mailing list.  It
seems doable since emerge can already be told that certain packages
can't be compiled until some other dependency is done first.  It seems
to me it could be a side item to that.  It's just that we can configure
it outside of the ebuild where the other is usually done inside the
ebuild. 

The info you provided is interesting.  Your drive is a little larger
than my current one.  The one on the new rig is going to be even
larger.  I'm certainly going to make /boot larger, for things like
memtest, maybe a rescue image or two.  I made root plenty large last
time but plan to do things different this time.  Even tho things will
change and likely make me wish I did it differently.  This is my current
setup.

root@fireball / # lvs
  LV  VG   Attr   LSize   Pool Origin Data%  Meta%  Move Log
Cpy%Sync Convert
  swap    OS   -wi-ao 
12.00g   
  usr OS   -wi-ao 
39.06g   
  var OS   -wi-ao  52.00g

root@fireball / # df -h | grep sda
Filesystem   Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda6    23G  2.9G   19G  14% /
/dev/sda1   373M  201M  153M  57% /boot
/dev/mapper/OS-usr    39G   23G   14G  63% /usr
/dev/mapper/OS-var    52G   30G   20G  61% /var

root@fireball / #

As you can see, root is a bit to large but I didn't know how much the
stuff that goes there would grow so I wanted to be safe since it is a
raw partition and not easy to change.  I put /usr and /var on LVM.  I've
had to grow both of those, /usr several times.  Since I plan to put /usr
on root, I'll have to add both those and add some growing room.  Other
than that, I'll make /var larger since I do have to use eclean on
occasion but /boot will be larger.  Yours being 4GBs is 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Waldo Lemmer]

On Sun, Jun 2, 2024, 13:28 Nuno Silva  wrote:

> (Well, one request I have is to please don't top-post in this
> list. That's not the common style in this list, and tends to be an
> approach mostly from the Microsoft and business worlds.)
>

Top-posting is the default in Gmail, and there's no intuitive way to avoid
doing it in the Gmail app.

By default, quoted text is hidden behind three dots. After expanding those
three dots, attempting to append text to the bottom results in that text
being included as part of the quoted text. To avoid that, the quoted text
first needs to be modified in some way. That allows a newline at the end to
escape out of the quoted portion.

Finally, the two empty lines before the quoted text should be removed.

Waldo

>

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday, 2 June 2024 16:11:38 BST Dale wrote:

> My plan, given it is a 1TB, use maybe 300GBs of it.  Leave the rest
> blank.  Have the /boot, EFI directory, root and maybe put /var on a
> separate partition.  I figure for the boot stuff, 3GBs would be plenty
> for all combined.  Make them large so they can grow.  Make root, which
> would include /usr, say 150GBs.  /var can be around 10GBs.  My current
> OS is on a 160GB drive.  I wish I could get the nerve up to use LVM on
> everything except the boot stuff, /boot and the EFI stuff.  If I make
> them like above, I should be good for a long time.  Could go much larger
> tho.  Could use maybe 700GBs of it.  I assume it would use the unused
> part if needed.  I still don't know a lot about those things.  Mostly
> what I see posted on this list really. 

Doesn't everyone mount /tmp and /var/tmp/portage on tmpfs these days? I use 
hard disk for a few large packages, but I'm not convinced it's needed - except 
when running an emerge -e, that is, when they can get in the way of lots of 
others. That's why, some months ago, I suggested introducing an ability to 
mark some packages for compilation solitarily. (Is that a word?)

Here's the output of parted -l on my main NVMe disk in case it helps:

Model: Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 250GB (nvme)
Disk /dev/nvme1n1: 250GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: gpt
Disk Flags: 

Number  Start   End SizeFile system Name  Flags
 1  1049kB  135MB   134MB
 2  135MB   4296MB  4161MB  fat32   boot  boot, esp
 3  4296MB  12.9GB  8590MB  linux-swap(v1)  swap1 swap
 4  12.9GB  34.4GB  21.5GB  ext4rescue
 5  34.4GB  60.1GB  25.8GB  ext4root
 6  60.1GB  112GB   51.5GB  ext4var
 7  112GB   114GB   2147MB  ext4local
 8  114GB   140GB   25.8GB  ext4home
 9  140GB   183GB   42.9GB  ext4common

The common partition is mounted under my home directory, to keep everything 
I'd want to preserve if I made myself a new user account. It's v. useful, too.

> P. S.  After I do the CPU upgrade, I'll have a spare CPU.  Then I'll
> need another mobo, and memory set so that I can put that CPU to use.  No
> need it sitting around on a shelf right???  ROFL 

Welcome to baggage reclaim...:)

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

[gentoo-user] What's probing /dev/sr0?

[Alan Grimes]

Every few minutes my motorized cupholder kicks its motor... Which means 
**something** is kicking /dev/sr0 every few minutes checking for 
media... I need to know what it is and how to stop it... =\


--
You can't out-crazy a Democrat.
#EggCrisis  #BlackWinter
White is the new Kulak.
Powers are not rights.

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Dale]

Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Dale.
>
> On Sun, Jun 02, 2024 at 08:27:57 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
> [  ]
>
>> Got the manual.  It says 128GB.  That sounds more like what I was
>> expecting anyway.  I kinda thought 256GB was a bit much.  That's why I
>> picked two 32GB sticks.  128GB is four times what I have now so it
>> should be enough for a while. 
> I'm pretty sure it's 128 GB, too.  Memory banks come in sizes of 4^n, and
> there are two sticks in each bank.  64 GB is indeed 4^18.  Two banks will
> make 128 GB.
>
>> I thought of something on the m.2 thing.  I plan to put my OS on it.  I
>> usually use tmpfs and compile in memory anyway but do have some set to
>> use spinning rust. Once I get 128GB installed, I should be able to do
>> that with all packages anyway 
> Indeed, 64 GB is easily ample for this, at the moment.  Trouble is,
> there's no saying how mad the rust project etc. will get over the
> lifetime of the new PC.  7 years ago, 16 GB seemed more than enough.  It
> doesn't any more.
>
>>  but still, I had a question.  Should I put the portage work
>> directory on a spinning rust drive to save wear and tear on the SSD or
>> have they got to the point now that doesn't matter anymore?
> A benchmark: My machine is 7 years old, and it contains no spinning rust,
> only two M2 Samsung SSDs in a RAID-1 configuration.  I looked at the wear
> statistics some months ago, and the number of read and write cycles on
> the SSDs was only around 3% of the guaranteed number.
>
> Your usage is obviously going to be different from mine (mainly SW
> development and updating Gentoo), but it may not be worth while worrying
> about SSD wear and tear.
>
>> I know all the SSD devices have improved a lot since the first ones
>> came out. 
> I haven't had a single problem with my two Samsung SSD 960 EVO 500GB
> drives in these 7 years.
>
> [  ]
>
>> Dale
>


When I saw 256GBs, I was like, I doubt that.  If the mobo cost a lot
more, maybe.  This price point, given the ridiculous price of other
boards, not likely.  I can't believe one can pay almost $1,000,
sometimes more, for a mobo that isn't some high performance server type
mobo.  I'm talking one that is expected to run at full tilt for many
years and do cartwheels around other mobos.  The prices are ridiculous.
Even the board I'm getting should be priced better and I'm likely
getting it at the cheapest there is to be found. 

I recall when SSDs first came out.  Basically, you didn't want to be
writing to them no more than needed.  Then they got better.  After a
little while longer, they got to almost like a spinning rust drive. 
They need some special settings but other than that, they can last a
really long time.  I was sure that by now, they had improved even more. 
After all, people put windoze on them and it updates pretty regular
too.  I just wasn't sure how much wear the portage work directory would
put on that.  I suspect if I bought a cheap or no name brand, I'd need
to be more concerned.  Given I'm getting a Samsung which is well known
for their SSDs and their quality, I wanted to be sure even tho it should
be OK.  I figured someone else was using one of those things. 

My plan, given it is a 1TB, use maybe 300GBs of it.  Leave the rest
blank.  Have the /boot, EFI directory, root and maybe put /var on a
separate partition.  I figure for the boot stuff, 3GBs would be plenty
for all combined.  Make them large so they can grow.  Make root, which
would include /usr, say 150GBs.  /var can be around 10GBs.  My current
OS is on a 160GB drive.  I wish I could get the nerve up to use LVM on
everything except the boot stuff, /boot and the EFI stuff.  If I make
them like above, I should be good for a long time.  Could go much larger
tho.  Could use maybe 700GBs of it.  I assume it would use the unused
part if needed.  I still don't know a lot about those things.  Mostly
what I see posted on this list really. 

Thanks to you and Rich for the replies.  They both helped.  Now to go
dig for a 4 stick memory kit.  So far, I can't find one on the Walmart
site.  Only pairs.  I was using my cell phone tho.  It's not suited for
serious digging. ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  After I do the CPU upgrade, I'll have a spare CPU.  Then I'll
need another mobo, and memory set so that I can put that CPU to use.  No
need it sitting around on a shelf right???  ROFL 

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Jun 2, 2024 at 9:27 AM Dale  wrote:
>
> I thought of something on the m.2 thing.  I plan to put my OS on it.  I
> usually use tmpfs and compile in memory anyway but do have some set to
> use spinning rust. Once I get 128GB installed, I should be able to do
> that with all packages anyway but still, I had a question.  Should I put
> the portage work directory on a spinning rust drive to save wear and
> tear on the SSD or have they got to the point now that doesn't matter
> anymore?  I know all the SSD devices have improved a lot since the first
> ones came out.

So, as with most things the answer is it depends.

The drive you're using is a consumer drive, rated for 600TB in writes.
Now, small random writes will probably wear it out faster, and large
sequential ones will probably wear it out slower, but that's basically
what you're working with.  That's about 0.3DWPD, which isn't a great
endurance level.

Often these drives can be over-provisioned to significantly increase
their life - if you're using discard/trim properly and keep maybe
1/3rd of the drive empty you'll get a lot more life out of it.  In
fact, the difference between different models of drives with different
write endurances are often nothing more than the drive having more
internal storage than advertised and doing the same thing behind the
scenes.

Obviously temp file use is going to eat into your endurance, but it
will GREATLY improve your build performance as well, so you should
probably do the math on just how much writing we're talking about.  If
a package has 20GB in temp files, you have to build it 30k times to
wear out your disk by the official numbers.

Of course, proper use of discard/trim requires setting your config
files correctly, and it might reduce performance on consumer drives.
When you buy enterprise NVMe you're paying for a couple of things that
are relevant to you:
1. A higher endurance rating.
2. Firmware that doesn't do dumb things when you trim/discard properly
3. Power loss protection (you didn't bring this topic up, but flash
storage is not kind to power loss and often performance is sacrificed
to make writes safer with internal journals).
4. Sustained write performance.  If you do sustained writes to a
consumer drive you'll see the write speed fall off a cliff after a
time, and this won't happen on an enterprise drive - the cache/etc is
optimized for sustained write loads.

Of course enterprise flash is pretty expensive unless you buy it used,
and obviously if you do that try to get something whose health is
known at time of purchase.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Dale.

On Sun, Jun 02, 2024 at 08:27:57 -0500, Dale wrote:

[  ]

> Got the manual.  It says 128GB.  That sounds more like what I was
> expecting anyway.  I kinda thought 256GB was a bit much.  That's why I
> picked two 32GB sticks.  128GB is four times what I have now so it
> should be enough for a while. 

I'm pretty sure it's 128 GB, too.  Memory banks come in sizes of 4^n, and
there are two sticks in each bank.  64 GB is indeed 4^18.  Two banks will
make 128 GB.

> I thought of something on the m.2 thing.  I plan to put my OS on it.  I
> usually use tmpfs and compile in memory anyway but do have some set to
> use spinning rust. Once I get 128GB installed, I should be able to do
> that with all packages anyway 

Indeed, 64 GB is easily ample for this, at the moment.  Trouble is,
there's no saying how mad the rust project etc. will get over the
lifetime of the new PC.  7 years ago, 16 GB seemed more than enough.  It
doesn't any more.

>  but still, I had a question.  Should I put the portage work
> directory on a spinning rust drive to save wear and tear on the SSD or
> have they got to the point now that doesn't matter anymore?

A benchmark: My machine is 7 years old, and it contains no spinning rust,
only two M2 Samsung SSDs in a RAID-1 configuration.  I looked at the wear
statistics some months ago, and the number of read and write cycles on
the SSDs was only around 3% of the guaranteed number.

Your usage is obviously going to be different from mine (mainly SW
development and updating Gentoo), but it may not be worth while worrying
about SSD wear and tear.

> I know all the SSD devices have improved a lot since the first ones
> came out. 

I haven't had a single problem with my two Samsung SSD 960 EVO 500GB
drives in these 7 years.

[  ]

> Dale

> :-)  :-)

> P. S.  I reported the memory error to Newegg, where it claims 256GB. 

:-)

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Sunday, 2 June 2024 14:27:57 BST Dale wrote:
>
>> Got the manual.  It says 128GB.  That sounds more like what I was
>> expecting anyway.  I kinda thought 256GB was a bit much.
> I bought my machine from Armari a few years ago; they supply high-performance 
> workstations to City finance and investment houses. I have 2x32GB memory 
> sticks 
> in it, and I wondered about doubling that to 128GB, which is supposed to be 
> feasible on this motherboard.
>
> The advice from Armari was that I'd have to be careful selecting the memory 
> sticks, and that they ought to come in a matched set from the manufacturer. 
> Otherwise timing problems could become a problem so that I'd have to fiddle 
> with memory speeds.
>
> I decided not to bother.
>
> Just my two-pen'orth.
>
> HTH.
>
> -- Regards, Peter.


I read that too but forgot.  It might be best to order all four.  Thing
is, should a I order a 4 stick kit?  Right now, I got some large
packages updating in my chroot.  I closed the Firefox profiles I use for
buying, and finding, this stuff.  I'll need to look to see if they sell
it as a 4 stick kit.  Given they say it should be a matched set, they
should have a 4 stick kit.  Otherwise, what's the difference in ordering
two now and two more later

Thanks for reminding me.  I read it but it slipped my mind.  A lot of
things do.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday, 2 June 2024 14:27:57 BST Dale wrote:

> Got the manual.  It says 128GB.  That sounds more like what I was
> expecting anyway.  I kinda thought 256GB was a bit much.

I bought my machine from Armari a few years ago; they supply high-performance 
workstations to City finance and investment houses. I have 2x32GB memory sticks 
in it, and I wondered about doubling that to 128GB, which is supposed to be 
feasible on this motherboard.

The advice from Armari was that I'd have to be careful selecting the memory 
sticks, and that they ought to come in a matched set from the manufacturer. 
Otherwise timing problems could become a problem so that I'd have to fiddle 
with memory speeds.

I decided not to bother.

Just my two-pen'orth.

HTH.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Dale]

Nuno Silva wrote:
> Some people may prefer one method of communication to the other, and one
> thing that has perhaps been lacking in Gentoo is more people reading the
> mailing list, which might allow finding out about (and acting on) some
> issues sooner.

I agree with this.  I subscribe to the -dev mailing list for that
reason.  I see news items that are coming before they even available
elsewhere.  I just saw one on texlive having file collisions where you
must uninstall it first, then install the new version.  Having a heads
up that something outside the norm is coming can be handy. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Dale]

Wols Lists wrote:
> On 02/06/2024 06:38, Dale wrote:
>> My plan is the CPU above for now.  Later, I will upgrade to the Ryzen 9
>> 7900X to get even more speed.  I'll also max the memory out too.  I'm
>> unclear on the max memory tho.  One place shows 128GB, hence two 32GB
>> sticks.
>
> Go on the manufacturer's website, find the mobo, and download the
> manual from the support page.
>
> The other thing is, if you know the chipset (it should say), see what
> other mobos with the same chipset can do.
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>


Got the manual.  It says 128GB.  That sounds more like what I was
expecting anyway.  I kinda thought 256GB was a bit much.  That's why I
picked two 32GB sticks.  128GB is four times what I have now so it
should be enough for a while. 

I thought of something on the m.2 thing.  I plan to put my OS on it.  I
usually use tmpfs and compile in memory anyway but do have some set to
use spinning rust. Once I get 128GB installed, I should be able to do
that with all packages anyway but still, I had a question.  Should I put
the portage work directory on a spinning rust drive to save wear and
tear on the SSD or have they got to the point now that doesn't matter
anymore?  I know all the SSD devices have improved a lot since the first
ones came out. 

Is the Gentoo wiki page for SSD the best way to set up a m.2 thing?  I
know they different from spinning rust. 

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/SSD

I'm going to give it a little while longer before ordering any of this. 
So far, no one has posted that something just won't work or came up with
a better mobo.  I was hoping on that last point.  I was pretty sure I
picked the right CPU and memory tho.  I got the info from the ASUS
website after all. 

Thanks to all who look and see if my build works together.  I'd hate to
make a mistake that costs me several hundred dollars.  O_O 

Dale

:-)  :-)

P. S.  I reported the memory error to Newegg, where it claims 256GB. 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday, 2 June 2024 01:54:08 BST Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2024-06-01, Wol  wrote:
> > I've got news for you, there are quite a few weirdos on the list,
> 
> Hey! I resemble that remark.

Hey! Are you pinching my joke?

-- 
Regards,
Peter.


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[gentoo-user] Re: preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Nuno Silva]

On 2024-06-01, Kévin GASPARD DE RENEFORT wrote:
> Le 01/06/2024 à 22:15, Wol a écrit :
>> On 31/05/2024 16:26, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-31, Kévin GASPARD DE RENEFORT wrote:
>>>
 Is this not possible to go, as I said, on IRC or use the
 discussion page ?

 This is not really the place for this topic, IMHO.
>>>
>>> Why not? This is a Gentoo mailing list. Do you mean it should instead be
>>> brought up in the Gentoo Documentation Project mailing list?
>>>
>> That was my sort-of reaction, but for somewhat different reasons. We
>> have a regular poster on the list posting something a little bit
>> weird, and then we have someone I've never seen on the list before,
>> posting a moderator-like message.
>>
>> Seriously? Some complete stranger to the list, telling off a regular
>> for posting something weird?
>>
>> I've got news for you, there are quite a few weirdos on the list,
>> but it adds spice!
>
> This was not a "moderator" like answer, more an advice: Since I
> started to translate some pages in French for the Wiki of Gentoo, I've
> already asked why IRC and not somewhere else, as **the mailing-list**
> dedicated to it. I do not link the oblivion that is an IRC channel, to
> be honest.

I don't find IRC inappropriate, and I myself use it extensively,
although I'm only on (counts) three #gentoo- channels at the moment?

What I found inappropriate was the confluence of 1) saying "this is not
really the place for this topic", and 2) when suggesting places to
discuss this, completely ignore Gentoo's bug tracker.

Some people may prefer one method of communication to the other, and one
thing that has perhaps been lacking in Gentoo is more people reading the
mailing list, which might allow finding out about (and acting on) some
issues sooner.

I completely understand some might not like mailing lists, even despite
their flexibility compared to many other poor and heavy venues that
appear to be "in" or "cool" nowadays. (I'm reading and posting via
network news, using a client of my choosing, that can work on X11,
terminal emulators and terminals, and I end up with styling that I can
easily control. (This is also an advantage of IRC, of course.))

One of the things I dislike, relatively to the other Gentoo venues and
the previous Gentoo documentation system, is the wiki. Maybe it gets
more participation this way, but it should at least not try to exclude
people even more than it already does. Directing people to talk pages
can do that. But that's personal preference, and I'll probably keep
using the other venues, just like I don't use Github to contribute to
Gentoo (nowadays that one is getting even harder to use without JS, and
even with JS it starts requiring newer features and syntax that only few
browsers support...).

> Somehow, it's (wiki's ML) unused, and more "regular" peoples, doing
> wiki's works since a while now, told me that… they do it on two
> places:
>
> - #gentoo-w...@libera.chat

How consistent is handling of IRC URLs nowadays? Would it be possible to
point people to

irc://libera.chat/%23gentoo-wiki

(or ircs:), or would that fail?

> - Each discussion page for each dedicated subject.
>
> I'm not on the #gentoo-wiki channel to explain how to do things at
> these contributors… doing it since years, or decade(s). I'm here to
> participate.
>
> "Some complete" stranger to the list is happy to present himself:
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Kgdrenefort
>
> Joke aside, I just wanted to be nice and redirect another user to
> somewhere which could be, maybe, a better place to talk about it :).

(Well, one request I have is to please don't top-post in this
list. That's not the common style in this list, and tends to be an
approach mostly from the Microsoft and business worlds.)

(As for the "redirecting" part, another wording would probably have been
happier, such as asking if the poster could access IRC in the hopes of
it being handled more quickly there, instead of presenting these two as
possibly the only venues. That's just it, I guess the words weren't well
received, at least in my case.)

-- 
Nuno Silva

Re: [gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Wols Lists]

On 02/06/2024 06:38, Dale wrote:

My plan is the CPU above for now.  Later, I will upgrade to the Ryzen 9
7900X to get even more speed.  I'll also max the memory out too.  I'm
unclear on the max memory tho.  One place shows 128GB, hence two 32GB
sticks.


Go on the manufacturer's website, find the mobo, and download the manual 
from the support page.


The other thing is, if you know the chipset (it should say), see what 
other mobos with the same chipset can do.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] yt-dlp no longer downloads from youtube

[Paul Colquhoun]

On Sunday, June 2, 2024 4:06:59 P.M. AEST John Covici wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Jun 2024 23:19:37 -0400,
> 
> Paul Colquhoun wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 2, 2024 1:34:20 A.M. AEST John Covici wrote:
> > > The great program yt-dlp no longer will download from youtube.  It
> > > complains that name or service not known.  It works fine downloading
> > > from rumble.  Anyone know  what is happening?  I assume youtube did
> > > some update that broke something.
> > > 
> > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> > 
> > It's working for me.
> > 
> > Can you post a full command line that isn't working?
> 
> Here is the command with full output.
> youtube-dl  https://www.youtube.com/embed/VGNMhK8Yssg

H, it seems to work here:

$ youtube-dl  https://www.youtube.com/embed/VGNMhK8Yssg
[youtube] Extracting URL: https://www.youtube.com/embed/VGNMhK8Yssg
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading webpage
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading ios player API JSON
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading android player API JSON
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading m3u8 information
[info] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading 1 format(s): 270+140
[hlsnative] Downloading m3u8 manifest
[hlsnative] Total fragments: 25
[download] Destination: Fernanda speaks on the occasion of Global 
Accessibility Awareness Day 2024-VGNMhK8Yssg.f270.mp4
[download] 100% of   12.46MiB in 00:00:27 at 467.49KiB/s
[download] Destination: Fernanda speaks on the occasion of Global 
Accessibility Awareness Day 2024-VGNMhK8Yssg.f140.m4a
[download] 100% of1.99MiB in 00:00:01 at 1.30MiB/s
[Merger] Merging formats into "Fernanda speaks on the occasion of Global 
Accessibility Awareness Day 2024-VGNMhK8Yssg.mp4"
Deleting original file Fernanda speaks on the occasion of Global Accessibility 
Awareness Day 2024-VGNMhK8Yssg.f270.mp4 (pass -k to keep)
Deleting original file Fernanda speaks on the occasion of Global Accessibility 
Awareness Day 2024-VGNMhK8Yssg.f140.m4a (pass -k to keep)

$ ls -l Fernanda*
-rw-r--r-- 1   14531671 May 17 01:54 'Fernanda speaks on the occasion 
of Global Accessibility Awareness Day 2024-VGNMhK8Yssg.mp4'

$ file Fernanda* 
Fernanda speaks on the occasion of Global Accessibility Awareness Day 2024-
VGNMhK8Yssg.mp4: ISO Media, MP4 Base Media v1 [ISO 14496-12:2003]


$ youtube-dl --version
2024.05.27


Try following that URL in your browser, then click the "Watch in YouTube" link 
at the lower left.

This converts the URL to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGNMhK8Yssg

See if that URL works for you.


-- 
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/
  Asking for technical help in newsgroups?  Read this first:
 http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro

Re: [gentoo-user] yt-dlp no longer downloads from youtube

[Walter Dnes]

On Sun, Jun 02, 2024 at 02:06:59AM -0400, John Covici wrote
> 
> I put the URL in firefox on  Windows which uses the same dns -- it all
> goes through my linux box -- and it worked fine, so it seems
> youtube-dl  is not working.

  I had weird problems downloading data from a province of Ontario
website hosted on Microsoft Azure cloud.  I "solved" it by putting...

nameserver 8.8.8.8

...at the top of /etc/resolv.conf and no, I don't understand why it
worked.  It might be worth a try.

-- 
Roses are red
Roses are blue
Depending on their velocity
Relative to you

Re: [gentoo-user] yt-dlp no longer downloads from youtube

[John Covici]

On Sat, 01 Jun 2024 23:19:37 -0400,
Paul Colquhoun wrote:
> 
> On Sunday, June 2, 2024 1:34:20 A.M. AEST John Covici wrote:
> > The great program yt-dlp no longer will download from youtube.  It
> > complains that name or service not known.  It works fine downloading
> > from rumble.  Anyone know  what is happening?  I assume youtube did
> > some update that broke something.
> > 
> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> 
> 
> It's working for me.
> 
> Can you post a full command line that isn't working?
> 
Here is the command with full output.
youtube-dl  https://www.youtube.com/embed/VGNMhK8Yssg
[youtube] Extracting URL: https://www.youtube.com/embed/VGNMhK8Yssg
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading webpage
WARNING: [youtube] Unable to download webpage: [Errno -2] Name or
service not known
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading ios player API JSON
WARNING: [youtube] [Errno -2] Name or service not known. Retrying
(1/3)...
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading ios player API JSON
WARNING: [youtube] [Errno -2] Name or service not known. Retrying
(2/3)...
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading ios player API JSON
WARNING: [youtube] [Errno -2] Name or service not known. Retrying
(3/3)...
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading ios player API JSON
WARNING: [youtube] Unable to download API page: [Errno -2] Name or
service not known (caused by TransportError('[Errno -2] Name or
service not known'))
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading iframe API JS
WARNING: [youtube] Unable to download webpage: [Errno -2] Name or
service not known
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading web player API JSON
WARNING: [youtube] [Errno -2] Name or service not known. Retrying
(1/3)...
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading web player API JSON
WARNING: [youtube] [Errno -2] Name or service not known. Retrying
(2/3)...
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading web player API JSON
WARNING: [youtube] [Errno -2] Name or service not known. Retrying
(3/3)...
[youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Downloading web player API JSON
WARNING: [youtube] Unable to download API page: [Errno -2] Name or
service not known (caused by TransportError('[Errno -2] Name or
service not known'))
ERROR: [youtube] VGNMhK8Yssg: Failed to extract any player response;
please report this issue on
https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp/issues?q= , filling out the
appropriate issue template. Confirm you are on the latest version
using  yt-dlp -U

I put the URL in firefox on  Windows which uses the same dns -- it all
goes through my linux box -- and it worked fine, so it seems
youtube-dl  is not working.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

[gentoo-user] Mobo, CPU, memory and a m.2 thingy. This work together?

[Dale]

Howdy, again,

First, I'm not to thrilled with this mobo.  I'd still like to have more
PCIe slots, even x1 ones would help.  It's the best I've found so far. 
It might be able to do the job.  I hope anyway.  Naturally, this will
have Gentoo on it.  Network and all needs to work with Linux.  Heck, I
don't have enough room to put a network card on this thing if the
builtin doesn't work. 

This is the mobo I have picked. Link is the OEM page with CPU and memory
info.

https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-x670-p/helpdesk_qvl_cpu?model2Name=PRIME-X670-P


This is where I plan to buy it.  I was going to use Newegg direct but
they sold out of the mobo.  As I mentioned once before, I try to buy my
mobo, CPU and memory from the same company.  If someone has a better USA
company, I'm open to ideas if the price is better.  I used to also use
tigerdirect, no longer in business tho. 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/seot/1290971138    Mobo from ASUS

https://www.walmart.com/ip/seot/1693068603    CPU from Newegg

https://www.walmart.com/ip/seot/1597545320    Memory from Newegg

My plan is the CPU above for now.  Later, I will upgrade to the Ryzen 9
7900X to get even more speed.  I'll also max the memory out too.  I'm
unclear on the max memory tho.  One place shows 128GB, hence two 32GB
sticks.  The out of stock Newegg one claims 256GB, which would be nice. 
I'm not sure what to think on memory.  Anyway.  If the thing is fast
enough, I may do the memory first then CPU later.  If I need a faster
CPU, I may do it first then the memory.  Biggest thing, the mobo,
limited as it is, needs to be ready for those upgrades.  I think I did
my math right and got the specs right.  More eyes the better. 

I'm still not real sure on hooking up a lot of drives to this thing.  I
may have to have a true NAS box running 24/7.  My current Gigabyte
970A-UD3P is more to my liking expansion wise.  Heck, my old 770t is
even better than current mobos.  Today's mobos are seriously lacking in
everything except flashy stuff that serves no real purpose other than
selling.  I like the m.2 thing.  Put a OS on that thing so that at least
loading software etc can sort of keep up with the CPU.  There are other
good things but the bad sure does outweigh the good added features. 
Don't get me started on all that flashy LED junk.  I'm fine with LEDs
that indicate mobo power, errors etc.

I also found this.  I think it fits.  Went with Samsung since it is a
good brand for SSD stuff, all of them I've read.  ;-)  This would be for
the OS.  It would go in the slot closest to the CPU, which is the
fastest I think and runs on its own.  No sharing with something else.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Samsung-990-EVO-PCIe-5-0-NVMe-SSD-1TB-Black/5332753022


If someone knows of a mobo that has more PCIe slots, I'd love to hear
about it.  I'd pay a little more for one as long as I can afford it. 
Gigabyte, ASUS, and MSI are brands I'm fine with.  There could be some
I'm not aware of.  Same CPU and upgrade path tho please.  Memory could
change also.

Anyone see anything wrong with those configuration wise?  I used the
ASUS website but one never knows.  Open to better mobo ideas, if any
exist.  Vendor too.  Mobo comes from ASUS, rest from Newegg but all
through Walmart.  Better info on the memory would be good. I'm not sure
and the ASUS specs talk about memory type and specs but not the max you
can put in.  If it is 256GB, I need to buy one 64GB memory stick and go
from there. 

Thanks to all who help on this.  I'll be glad when this nightmare is
over.  I've never been this disappointed in picking parts to build a rig
before. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] yt-dlp no longer downloads from youtube

[Paul Colquhoun]

On Sunday, June 2, 2024 1:34:20 A.M. AEST John Covici wrote:
> The great program yt-dlp no longer will download from youtube.  It
> complains that name or service not known.  It works fine downloading
> from rumble.  Anyone know  what is happening?  I assume youtube did
> some update that broke something.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


It's working for me.

Can you post a full command line that isn't working?


-- 
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/
  Asking for technical help in newsgroups?  Read this first:
 http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro

[gentoo-user] Re: preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-06-01, Wol  wrote:

> I've got news for you, there are quite a few weirdos on the list,

Hey! I resemble that remark.

[Hmm. That's not as funny in print.]

[gentoo-user] Re: Getting started with a web server

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-06-01, George Kettleborough  wrote:

> If you only want to build a static site (ie. just HTML, CSS, JS etc; no
> server-side scripting) then you don't need to install and configure
> something like Apache to test it out. You could just open the files you're
> working on straight from the disk. Or if you want to test with server you
> can use one of the super simple servers designed for testing. There is one
> built in to Python. Simply run "python -m http.server" in your project
> directory.

For old-school dynamic content, busybox has a trivial web server that
also supports cgi executables.  CGI helpers written in something like
Python is actually not a bad option for many dymanic things
(e.g. generating SVG data plots using matplotlib).

If you want to do PHP...  Don't. Just don't.  If you're looking at a
hosting service that only supports PHP as a backend language, then
pick another hosting service.

As has already been mentioned, the big-time frameworks (Flask, Django,
TurboGears, etc) all have their own test/developement server schemes.

If you want generic server that's simpler than apache, lighttpd is a
good option.

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] yt-dlp no longer downloads from youtube

[Grant Taylor]

On 6/1/24 11:14, Alarig Le Lay wrote:

No, “name or service not known” means that your resolver doesn’t work


Not necessarily.

It can also mean that the name being looked up is not valid.

I'd think that a network sniffer would provide that answer in short 
order for traditional DNS.




--
Grant. . . .

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Dale]

Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 1, 2024 at 1:16 PM Wol  > wrote:
> > I've got news for you, there are quite a few weirdos on the list, but it
> > adds spice!
> >
> Ah! I feel so at home!
>
> Thanks Wol!


+1.  I've been told I was weird all my life.  I kinda take offense when
someone says I'm not weird now.  ROFL 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  On the subject of threads and Gentoo related.  I've decided to
use my credit card and buy the mobo, CPU and memory.  So, I'm going
through info that others posted in earlier threads and I'm about ready
to pull all my hair out.  To be blunt, none of the mobos are worth half
the price they want to charge.  I just watched a video of a guy ranting
about the exact same thing I'm thinking.  Make it flashy, use obscure
language to make something old sound new and raise the price to the
sky.  Oh, also put stuff on the mobo that should be handled with a PCIe
card, for those few who want that feature.  Don't forget, raise the
price some more for something the buyer doesn't want and intends to
disable at first boot up.  I realize this is basically a text only
mailing list.  Imagine a emoji thingy that is red from anger and very
frustrated.  I used to love to pick parts to build a system.  Now, I
just want it to be over with so I can end my misery.  It went from being
fun to being something akin to digging up a plugged sewer line, that you
know is going to spray you with some nasty stuff.  :-@

Expect another thread on this.  Whenever I get done letting the steam
escape from my eyes and ears. 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Mark Knecht]

On Sat, Jun 1, 2024 at 1:16 PM Wol  wrote:
> I've got news for you, there are quite a few weirdos on the list, but it
> adds spice!
>
Ah! I feel so at home!

Thanks Wol!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Kévin GASPARD DE RENEFORT]

Hello,

This was not a "moderator" like answer, more an advice: Since I started 
to translate some pages in French for the Wiki of Gentoo, I've already 
asked why IRC and not somewhere else, as **the mailing-list** dedicated 
to it. I do not link the oblivion that is an IRC channel, to be honest.


Somehow, it's (wiki's ML) unused, and more "regular" peoples, doing 
wiki's works since a while now, told me that… they do it on two places:


- #gentoo-w...@libera.chat

- Each discussion page for each dedicated subject.

I'm not on the #gentoo-wiki channel to explain how to do things at these 
contributors… doing it since years, or decade(s). I'm here to participate.


"Some complete" stranger to the list is happy to present himself: 
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Kgdrenefort


Joke aside, I just wanted to be nice and redirect another user to 
somewhere which could be, maybe, a better place to talk about it :).


Regards,
GASPARD DE RENEFORT Kévin

Le 01/06/2024 à 22:15, Wol a écrit :

On 31/05/2024 16:26, Nuno Silva wrote:

On 2024-05-31, Kévin GASPARD DE RENEFORT wrote:

Is this not possible to go, as I said, on IRC or use the discussion 
page ?


This is not really the place for this topic, IMHO.


Why not? This is a Gentoo mailing list. Do you mean it should instead be
brought up in the Gentoo Documentation Project mailing list?

That was my sort-of reaction, but for somewhat different reasons. We 
have a regular poster on the list posting something a little bit 
weird, and then we have someone I've never seen on the list before, 
posting a moderator-like message.


Seriously? Some complete stranger to the list, telling off a regular 
for posting something weird?


I've got news for you, there are quite a few weirdos on the list, but 
it adds spice!


Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Wol]

On 31/05/2024 16:26, Nuno Silva wrote:

On 2024-05-31, Kévin GASPARD DE RENEFORT wrote:


Is this not possible to go, as I said, on IRC or use the discussion page ?

This is not really the place for this topic, IMHO.


Why not? This is a Gentoo mailing list. Do you mean it should instead be
brought up in the Gentoo Documentation Project mailing list?

That was my sort-of reaction, but for somewhat different reasons. We 
have a regular poster on the list posting something a little bit weird, 
and then we have someone I've never seen on the list before, posting a 
moderator-like message.


Seriously? Some complete stranger to the list, telling off a regular for 
posting something weird?


I've got news for you, there are quite a few weirdos on the list, but it 
adds spice!


Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Getting started with a web server

[Michael]

On Saturday, 1 June 2024 16:01:26 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> It seems to be time again to see if I can set up a local web server*. I want
> to build a site for myself, and one way is to work it up on my own machine,
> then transfer it to a hosting service when it's "ready".
> 
> The first problem I face is in choosing a server: Apache is huge and
> complex, and NGINX is foreign to me, so what should I do?
> 
> The Gentoo Apache wiki is unhelpful. It assumes that the reader is
> experienced in running web servers, and just points out the way things are
> done differently here. Then it occupies several pages with the entire
> configuration file calling chain, every line of every file being shown;
> what is the point of that? It only succeeds in sowing confusion. Well, it
> does in me, anyway; I'm no wiser at the end than the beginning.
> 
> It even trips up right at the start, showing what to set for each MPM, but
> without explaining why I should choose any particular one. The wiki seems to
> have been written by a programmer, not a user (this is a woefully common
> shortcoming in software documents).
> 
> In short, it's useless.
> 
> Is there a more accessible guide anywhere? Google hasn't found anything for
> me.
> 
> *  I've asked this here before, but never got anywhere with it. I did build
> a 130-page site for the local choir years ago, in pure HTML and CSS, but
> that experience has evaporated.

I don't know if there are any more helpful guides for Apache, but Apache is a 
bit of a beast.  If you need to dive into the nuances of its configuration, 
then sooner or later you'll end up spending time reading the Apache 
documentation.

https://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/en/

For MPM in particular take a look here:

https://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/en/mpm.html#defaults

I suggest you do not specify an MPM.  Apache will choose its own module 
depending on the capability of your hardware, or for a home project with low 
number of requests just set it as 'prefork'.

However, unless setting up and managing a webserver is a sysadmin hobby you 
wish to get entangled in, I suggest you find a reliable hosting company and 
undertake both web hosting and development online.  Hosting a local website 
for development and testing was a necessity back in the dial-up Internet days 
and when data download was metered by your ISP, but domestic web hosting today 
will cause more of a hindrance than help.

You can use the CMS preferred and offered by your web hosting provider, 
instead of hacking HTML & CSS by hand, while trying to keep up with continuous 
changes in standards.  I have found Wordpress is easier to set up and look 
after for simple websites, as long as you keep the plugins to a minimum and 
stick to default themes.

HTH

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Re: [gentoo-user] Getting started with a web server

[George Kettleborough]

Hi Peter,

If you only want to build a static site (ie. just HTML, CSS, JS etc; no
server-side scripting) then you don't need to install and configure
something like Apache to test it out. You could just open the files you're
working on straight from the disk. Or if you want to test with server you
can use one of the super simple servers designed for testing. There is one
built in to Python. Simply run "python -m http.server" in your project
directory.

You could also consider using a static site builder like Hugo or Jekyll
which can build your site using templates. These have their own test
servers built in.


-- George



On Sat, 1 Jun 2024, 16:02 Peter Humphrey,  wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> It seems to be time again to see if I can set up a local web server*. I
> want
> to build a site for myself, and one way is to work it up on my own
> machine,
> then transfer it to a hosting service when it's "ready".
>
> The first problem I face is in choosing a server: Apache is huge and
> complex,
> and NGINX is foreign to me, so what should I do?
>
> The Gentoo Apache wiki is unhelpful. It assumes that the reader is
> experienced
> in running web servers, and just points out the way things are done
> differently
> here. Then it occupies several pages with the entire configuration file
> calling
> chain, every line of every file being shown; what is the point of that? It
> only
> succeeds in sowing confusion. Well, it does in me, anyway; I'm no wiser at
> the
> end than the beginning.
>
> It even trips up right at the start, showing what to set for each MPM, but
> without explaining why I should choose any particular one. The wiki seems
> to
> have been written by a programmer, not a user (this is a woefully common
> shortcoming in software documents).
>
> In short, it's useless.
>
> Is there a more accessible guide anywhere? Google hasn't found anything
> for
> me.
>
> *  I've asked this here before, but never got anywhere with it. I did
> build a
> 130-page site for the local choir years ago, in pure HTML and CSS, but
> that
> experience has evaporated.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Peter.
>

Re: [gentoo-user] yt-dlp no longer downloads from youtube

[Alarig Le Lay]

On Sat 01 Jun 2024 12:09:40 GMT, John Covici wrote:
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Alarig Le Lay  
> Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2024 11:53 AM
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] yt-dlp no longer downloads from youtube
> 
> On Sat 01 Jun 2024 11:34:20 GMT, John Covici wrote:
> > The great program yt-dlp no longer will download from youtube.  It
> > complains that name or service not known.  It works fine downloading
> > from rumble.  Anyone know  what is happening?  I assume youtube did
> > some update that broke something.
> > 
> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> 
> Fix your DNS resolver?
> 
> Dns  works fine, just this one yt-dlp gives this strange error.

No, “name or service not known” means that your resolver doesn’t work

RE: [gentoo-user] yt-dlp no longer downloads from youtube

[John Covici]

-Original Message-
From: Alarig Le Lay  
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2024 11:53 AM
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] yt-dlp no longer downloads from youtube

On Sat 01 Jun 2024 11:34:20 GMT, John Covici wrote:
> The great program yt-dlp no longer will download from youtube.  It
> complains that name or service not known.  It works fine downloading
> from rumble.  Anyone know  what is happening?  I assume youtube did
> some update that broke something.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Fix your DNS resolver?

Dns  works fine, just this one yt-dlp gives this strange error.

Re: [gentoo-user] yt-dlp no longer downloads from youtube

[Alarig Le Lay]

On Sat 01 Jun 2024 11:34:20 GMT, John Covici wrote:
> The great program yt-dlp no longer will download from youtube.  It
> complains that name or service not known.  It works fine downloading
> from rumble.  Anyone know  what is happening?  I assume youtube did
> some update that broke something.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Fix your DNS resolver?

[gentoo-user] yt-dlp no longer downloads from youtube

[John Covici]

The great program yt-dlp no longer will download from youtube.  It
complains that name or service not known.  It works fine downloading
from rumble.  Anyone know  what is happening?  I assume youtube did
some update that broke something.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Jude DaShiell]

It went on irc.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Fri, 31 May 2024, Nuno Silva wrote:

> On 2024-05-31, Kévin GASPARD DE RENEFORT wrote:
>
> > Is this not possible to go, as I said, on IRC or use the discussion page ?
> >
> > This is not really the place for this topic, IMHO.
>
> Why not? This is a Gentoo mailing list. Do you mean it should instead be
> brought up in the Gentoo Documentation Project mailing list?
>
>

[gentoo-user] Re: preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Nuno Silva]

On 2024-05-31, Kévin GASPARD DE RENEFORT wrote:

> Is this not possible to go, as I said, on IRC or use the discussion page ?
>
> This is not really the place for this topic, IMHO.

Why not? This is a Gentoo mailing list. Do you mean it should instead be
brought up in the Gentoo Documentation Project mailing list?

-- 
Nuno Silva

[gentoo-user] Re: preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Nuno Silva]

On 2024-05-31, Kévin GASPARD DE RENEFORT wrote:
>
> Le 31/05/2024 à 14:47, Jude DaShiell a écrit :
>> What's missing in those instructions is:
>> x
>> 1
>> n
>> /boot
>> r
>> that's for the fdisk instructions.
>
> such things are better to talk on the #gentoo-w...@libera.chat, or in
> the discussion page of the page having something missing.

Not Bugzilla?

Although other venues (at least those from Gentoo, like this list)
should be acceptable to discuss problems too, I'd think *the* place to
go for issues with the documentation would be Bugzilla.

(Also, the above should at least make it clear somehow that it is over
IRC. If someone does not know about libera.chat, how would one
understand that indication?)

> Thanks for reporting anything problematic tho, but your problem isn't
> elaborate enough as you written it IMHO to understand exactly what you
> are talking about.
>
> Regards,
> GASPARD DE RENEFORT Kévin
>
>
>

-- 
Nuno Silva

Re: [gentoo-user] preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Kévin GASPARD DE RENEFORT]

Is this not possible to go, as I said, on IRC or use the discussion page ?

This is not really the place for this topic, IMHO.

Regards,
GASPARD DE RENEFORT Kévin

Le 31/05/2024 à 15:27, Jude DaShiell a écrit :

The problem with the handbook is /dev/sda1 is supposed to be named /boot
and the necessary fdisk instructions to do this are missing from that
section of the handbook.


--
  Jude 
  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
  Please use in that order."
  Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Fri, 31 May 2024, Jude DaShiell wrote:


What's missing in those instructions is:
x
1
n
/boot
r
that's for the fdisk instructions.

Re: [gentoo-user] preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Jude DaShiell]

The problem with the handbook is /dev/sda1 is supposed to be named /boot
and the necessary fdisk instructions to do this are missing from that
section of the handbook.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Fri, 31 May 2024, Jude DaShiell wrote:

> What's missing in those instructions is:
> x
> 1
> n
> /boot
> r
> that's for the fdisk instructions.
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Kévin GASPARD DE RENEFORT]

Hello,

such things are better to talk on the #gentoo-w...@libera.chat, or in 
the discussion page of the page having something missing.


Thanks for reporting anything problematic tho, but your problem isn't 
elaborate enough as you written it IMHO to understand exactly what you 
are talking about.


Regards,
GASPARD DE RENEFORT Kévin

Le 31/05/2024 à 14:47, Jude DaShiell a écrit :

What's missing in those instructions is:
x
1
n
/boot
r
that's for the fdisk instructions.

[gentoo-user] preparing /dev/sda1 for gentoo install x86 handbook

[Jude DaShiell]

What's missing in those instructions is:
x
1
n
/boot
r
that's for the fdisk instructions.


-- 
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

Re: [gentoo-user] Question about installkernel configuration

[Michael]

On Thursday, 30 May 2024 16:48:15 BST Jacques Montier wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> It's not an issue but a question :
> I'm working with a 10 years old mobo.
> I have two systemd Gentoo.
> One (some years old) on ssd internal disk installed with dos partition and
> grub mbr
> The other one (newly installed) on usb3 external ssd disk installed with
> gpt partition and grub efi.
> I manually install gentoo-sources kernels (emerge, make, make
> modules_install, make install)
> installkernel use flags : grub, dracut, systemd.
> I have the same configuration of installkernel on both OS :
> nano /usr/lib/kernel/install.conf
> layout=grub
> initrd_generator=dracut
> uki_generator=none

You shouldn't use the same layout directive for both systems - see below.


> In /boot, the output of make install is different :
> On the internal ssd :
> vmlinuz-6.6.30-gentoo initramfs-6.6.30-gentoo.img  config-6.6.30-gentoo
> System.map-6.6.30-gentoo
> 
> On the new one :
> kernel-6.6.30-gentoo  initramfs-6.6.30-gentoo.img (no config nor System.map
> files)
> 
> My question :
> Why these differences (kernel name, config and System.map) ?

The old system using the GRUB bootloader in the MBR will install its files in 
/boot.  The new system in the EFI/ directory within the ESP.

Take a look at the following news items, which explain recent changes:

https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-02-01-installkernel-new-use-systemd-boot.html

https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-03-12-debianutils-installkernel.html

Also you should read this very detailed page on how to configure install.conf 
for both of your systems:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Installkernel


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[gentoo-user] Question about installkernel configuration

[Jacques Montier]

Hello All,

It's not an issue but a question :
I'm working with a 10 years old mobo.
I have two systemd Gentoo.
One (some years old) on ssd internal disk installed with dos partition and
grub mbr
The other one (newly installed) on usb3 external ssd disk installed with
gpt partition and grub efi.
I manually install gentoo-sources kernels (emerge, make, make
modules_install, make install)
installkernel use flags : grub, dracut, systemd.
I have the same configuration of installkernel on both OS :
nano /usr/lib/kernel/install.conf
layout=grub
initrd_generator=dracut
uki_generator=none

In /boot, the output of make install is different :
On the internal ssd :
vmlinuz-6.6.30-gentoo initramfs-6.6.30-gentoo.img  config-6.6.30-gentoo
System.map-6.6.30-gentoo

On the new one :
kernel-6.6.30-gentoo  initramfs-6.6.30-gentoo.img (no config nor System.map
files)

My question :
Why these differences (kernel name, config and System.map) ?

Thanks a lot for your response.

Cheers,

--
Jacques Montier.

Re: [gentoo-user] verifying stage3

[Michael]

On Thursday, 30 May 2024 09:43:32 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> I got:
> sha256sum --check
> stage3-amd64-desktop-openrc-20240526T163557Z.tar.xz.sha256
> stage3-amd64-desktop-openrc-20240526T163557Z.tar.xz: OK
> sha256sum: WARNING: 12 lines are improperly formatted
> Is the warning significant?

Check the contents of the file with the SHA256 hashes:

cat stage3-amd64-desktop-openrc-20240526T163557Z.tar.xz.sha256

The warning does not affect the archive you downloaded and are about to use, 
which was checked and found to be OK.  Instead it refers to the other 12 files 
you have not downloaded.


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[gentoo-user] verifying stage3

[Jude DaShiell]

I got:
sha256sum --check
stage3-amd64-desktop-openrc-20240526T163557Z.tar.xz.sha256
stage3-amd64-desktop-openrc-20240526T163557Z.tar.xz: OK
sha256sum: WARNING: 12 lines are improperly formatted
Is the warning significant?


-- 
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Michael]

On Tuesday, 28 May 2024 19:02:09 BST Dale wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
> > On 2024-05-28, Dale  wrote:
> >> Grant Edwards wrote:
> >>> On 2024-05-21, Dale  wrote:
> > Here's my udev rules file that defines my network interface names
> > for the machine I'm on at the moment:
> > 
> > --/etc/udev/rules.d/70-my-persistent-net.rules
> > --- SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add",
> > ATTR{address}=="2c:f0:5d:6f:10:af", NAME="net0" SUBSYSTEM=="net",
> > ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="00:1b:21:b1:d1:e9", NAME="net1"
> > -
> > >> 
> >> Got a little busy with my garden.  Found my first zucchini yesterday. 
> >> Ready to pick in a few days.  Found some small tomatoes too.  Anyway. 
> >> Did manage to create this rule tho.  This look reasonable?  I'm thinking
> >> it should be named something else tho.  It could clash with the usual
> >> name. 
> >> 
> >> # PCI device 0x11ab:0x4363 (Intel e1000e)
> >> #SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*",
> >> ATTR{address}=="68:05:ca:42:17:39",ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0", ATTR{type}=="1",
> >> KERNEL=="eth*", NAME="enp3s0"
> > 
> > Did my examples (with the MAC addresses and device names changed) not
> > work?
> > 
> >> I got the ATTR address from ifconfig.  I'm not real sure on the other
> >> ATTR variables tho.
> > 
> > I don't use the other other ATTRs, ACTION, DRIVERS, or KERNEL and I
> > don't know why you added them, so I can't comment.
> > 
> > --
> > Grant
> 
> Well, I found one with google and sort of went by that.  Now that I read
> yours again, yours makes more sense, from what little I know.  o_O
> 
> Is ATTR address the same as Mac address?  If so, why not have the same
> names for all tools  How's this look?

An ATTR can be any of the identifying attributes of your particular NIC.  Take 
a look in /sys/class/net/ to find out the current name of the device, e.g. 
enp4s0, then look at its attributes:

udevadm info -a /sys/class/net/enp4s0/

You can use any attributes which *uniquely* identify the NIC, e.g. vendor/
device ID, MAC address, etc. to avoid misidentification.


> SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="68:05:ca:42:17:39",
> NAME="dale0"
> 
> 
> I gave it a different name this time.  I'm assuming I'd need to reboot to
> test this or is restarting udev enough??

If it is a remote PC and you're using netifrc, you'll need to create a new 
symlink, e.g.:

ln -s /etc/init.d/net.lo /etc/init.d/net.dale0

You probably know you can stop the predictable device naming by adding to your 
kernel command line:

net.ifnames=0

If you only have one wired NIC, then it will pop up as eth0.


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Re: [gentoo-user] hardware disk description

[Michael]

On Wednesday, 29 May 2024 00:10:07 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> On 28/05/2024 20:51, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > My machine has protected mbr with gpt partitions on it.  Are those kind of
> > partitions hybrid?
> 
> This is completely standard nowadays. I think the "protected MBR" just
> points to the first four GPT partitions.
> 
> This is basically down to the fact that (a) the MBR can no longer
> describe a modern large disk (I'm not sure what the limit is, 2TB?
> 4TB?), and also older formatting tools - if they don't see an MBR - are
> known for assuming the disk is empty and trashing the start of it. Yeah
> they shouldn't, but they do ...
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

The 'protective MBR' is a partition type 0xEE starting at sector 0 and 
spanning the entire length of a disk (or 2TiB).  Legacy partitioning tools 
which do not recognise GUID Partition Table structures will identify a GPT 
disk to have no free space left, instead of mistakenly consider it 
unpartitioned.

A hybrid MBR is a variant of the protective MBR and it also contains up to 3 
additional primary partitions occupying the same space as up to 3 GPT 
partitions.  Older OSs which cannot boot from GPT disks should be installed 
there, while modern OSs will be able to use the remaining GPT partitions on 
the disk.

Unless gdisk declares "MBR partitions" with their Status as "primary", you do 
not have a hybrid MBR or any primary partitions on your disk.

You can check this page for more information:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Hybrid_partition_table


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Re: [gentoo-user] hardware disk description

[Wols Lists]

On 28/05/2024 20:51, Jude DaShiell wrote:

My machine has protected mbr with gpt partitions on it.  Are those kind of
partitions hybrid?



This is completely standard nowadays. I think the "protected MBR" just 
points to the first four GPT partitions.


This is basically down to the fact that (a) the MBR can no longer 
describe a modern large disk (I'm not sure what the limit is, 2TB? 
4TB?), and also older formatting tools - if they don't see an MBR - are 
known for assuming the disk is empty and trashing the start of it. Yeah 
they shouldn't, but they do ...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] hardware disk description

[karl]

Jude DaShiell:
> My machine has protected mbr with gpt partitions on it.  Are those kind of
> partitions hybrid?

 Why not check for yourself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table

 You can use theese to find out what you have:
file -s /dev/sda
fdisk -l /dev/sda

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

Re: [gentoo-user] Terminal emulator to replace Konsole

[Dale]

Ionen Wolkens wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 03:01:44PM -0500, Dale wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I looked in x11-terms and there is a few options, I think.  I tried
>> looking at home pages and such but none of them mention a feature like
>> this but it may have it.  I was wondering if anyone knows of a terminal
>> emulator that allows the mouse to place the cursor to edit parts or
>> whole sections of a command.  Some of my commands are really long and it
>> seems the part I want to edit is always at the beginning.  :/
>>
> x11-terms/kitty can do this since it added some shell integration
> features (requires bash, zsh, or fish and a rc file to be loaded which
> is done by default), aka you can click anywhere in the command and
> it'll place the cursor there.
>
> The shell integration bits can also do things like open the output of
> the last command in a pager even if haven't done e.g. "... | less" or
> instantly copy it for pasting without awkwardly scrolling to select
> everything.
>
> Has quite a vast amount of features and configuration options, albeit
> it may come as a bit quirky and with a learning curve if coming from
> konsole (e.g. it does not even have a context menu and can only be
> configured by editing the .conf file directly), and is mostly intended
> for use with various keyboard binds than with pretty menus.


I have been playing with this a bit.  I kinda like it.  It's starting to
grow on me.  LOL  The one thing I can't figure out, the scroll thing on
the side of the window it's in.  On most things, web browsers and such,
there is a scroll thing on the right side.  You can left click and hold
and scroll rather quickly to a certain spot.  When there is a long page
of info, it can come in handy.  It is a LOT faster than using the mouse
wheel or the page up/down keys.  I can't figure out how to work the one
in Kitty tho.  I see the little bar but when I left click on it, it
doesn't do anything.  If I try to scroll with it, it just highlights
text in the window.  Also, usually the mouse pointer changes when I'm
over that little scroll part.  With Kitty, it doesn't change.  It stays
a little text bar like it does when over text.  It's there but it
doesn't allow the mouse to make use of it. 

I've been through the config file a few times and found scroll things
but I'm not seeing the part that controls it.  All the other windows I
use, web browsers, Konsole, file mangers etc work as they should.  I
don't think it is a KDE window setting since everything else works.  I
can't find anything with Kitty either tho. 

You have any idea what controls that behavior?  Maybe it is called
something I don't realize that is what it is or something. 

Oh, it is all controlled by the config file like you said.  It has no
settings or preference menu anywhere.  Heck, there's no menu at all. 
ROFL  Thing is, once set up, it doesn't matter. 

Thanks. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] hardware disk description

[Jude DaShiell]

My machine has protected mbr with gpt partitions on it.  Are those kind of
partitions hybrid?


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Dale]

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2024-05-28, Dale  wrote:
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-21, Dale  wrote:
>>>
> Here's my udev rules file that defines my network interface names
> for the machine I'm on at the moment:
>
> --/etc/udev/rules.d/70-my-persistent-net.rules---
> SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="2c:f0:5d:6f:10:af", 
> NAME="net0"
> SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="00:1b:21:b1:d1:e9", 
> NAME="net1"
> -
>> Got a little busy with my garden.  Found my first zucchini yesterday. 
>> Ready to pick in a few days.  Found some small tomatoes too.  Anyway. 
>> Did manage to create this rule tho.  This look reasonable?  I'm thinking
>> it should be named something else tho.  It could clash with the usual
>> name. 
>>
>> # PCI device 0x11ab:0x4363 (Intel e1000e)
>> #SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*",
>> ATTR{address}=="68:05:ca:42:17:39",ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0", ATTR{type}=="1",
>> KERNEL=="eth*", NAME="enp3s0"
> Did my examples (with the MAC addresses and device names changed) not
> work?
>
>> I got the ATTR address from ifconfig.  I'm not real sure on the other
>> ATTR variables tho.
> I don't use the other other ATTRs, ACTION, DRIVERS, or KERNEL and I
> don't know why you added them, so I can't comment.
>
> --
> Grant

Well, I found one with google and sort of went by that.  Now that I read
yours again, yours makes more sense, from what little I know.  o_O

Is ATTR address the same as Mac address?  If so, why not have the same
names for all tools  How's this look?

SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="68:05:ca:42:17:39", 
NAME="dale0"


I gave it a different name this time.  I'm assuming I'd need to reboot to test 
this or is restarting udev enough?? 

Dang it's humid outside.  I feel like I need diving gear out there so I can 
breathe.  O_O 

Dale 

:-)  :-)  

[gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-28, Dale  wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2024-05-21, Dale  wrote:
>>
 Here's my udev rules file that defines my network interface names
 for the machine I'm on at the moment:

 --/etc/udev/rules.d/70-my-persistent-net.rules---
 SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="2c:f0:5d:6f:10:af", 
 NAME="net0"
 SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="00:1b:21:b1:d1:e9", 
 NAME="net1"
 -

> Got a little busy with my garden.  Found my first zucchini yesterday. 
> Ready to pick in a few days.  Found some small tomatoes too.  Anyway. 
> Did manage to create this rule tho.  This look reasonable?  I'm thinking
> it should be named something else tho.  It could clash with the usual
> name. 
>
> # PCI device 0x11ab:0x4363 (Intel e1000e)
> #SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*",
> ATTR{address}=="68:05:ca:42:17:39",ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0", ATTR{type}=="1",
> KERNEL=="eth*", NAME="enp3s0"

Did my examples (with the MAC addresses and device names changed) not
work?

> I got the ATTR address from ifconfig.  I'm not real sure on the other
> ATTR variables tho.

I don't use the other other ATTRs, ACTION, DRIVERS, or KERNEL and I
don't know why you added them, so I can't comment.

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Dale]

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2024-05-21, Dale  wrote:
>
>>> Here's my udev rules file that defines my network interface names
>>> for the machine I'm on at the moment:
>>>
>>> --/etc/udev/rules.d/70-my-persistent-net.rules---
>>> SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="2c:f0:5d:6f:10:af", 
>>> NAME="net0"
>>> SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="00:1b:21:b1:d1:e9", 
>>> NAME="net1"
>>> -
>> Examples do help a lot.  I do use the enp* naming scheme.  My
>> understanding, that is the "new" way.
> The suffix for those enp* names comes from the PCI bus subsystem based
> on bus number, slot number, etc.  [Yes, slot number apparently does
> change based on what PCIe cards are present. No, that doesn't make
> sense to me either]
>
>> Based on your config, I would need to change the NAME= to enp* names
>> and that would correct that.
> I suppose you could, but I would not use enp* names. Those could
> conflict with the autogenerated names.
>
>> Where you have ATTR, is that a quote or did you edit to remove a
>> number, MAC address, IP or something? 
> What I posted is exactly what's in the file
> (without the --- delimiters).
>
> Here's more documentation:
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Udev
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/udev
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_configuration#Change_interface_name
>
> [The arch Wiki is always a good fallback if the Gentoo manual/Wiki
> don't have what you're looking for.]
>
>> If it is one of those, where do I find that info?  I checked
>> ifconfig and didn't see a MAC address.  I also checked lspci -v. 
>> I'm not sure where you get the needed info from.   BTW, right now,
>> I'm on my main rig. 
> The only thing you need to change from my example would be the mac
> address(es) (e.g. 2c:f0:5d:6f:10:af) and the names (e.g. net0).
>
>> I have the package net-misc/networkmanager installed.  Most likely
>> pulled in by something else.  Could I use it to configure this? 
> Possibly, I don't use networkmanager and don't know how it works on
> Gentoo.  I use the default Gentoo netifrc scheme
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Netifrc.
>
>> I also have KDE installed on the NAS box, it is also a backup rig in
>> case my main rig dies.  It may have a GUI that I could use.  I'm not
>> opposed to the command line way tho.  Biggest thing, copy and paste
>> would be nice. 
> I don't know much of anything about KDE.
>
> --
> Grant

Got a little busy with my garden.  Found my first zucchini yesterday. 
Ready to pick in a few days.  Found some small tomatoes too.  Anyway. 
Did manage to create this rule tho.  This look reasonable?  I'm thinking
it should be named something else tho.  It could clash with the usual
name. 

# PCI device 0x11ab:0x4363 (Intel e1000e)
#SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*",
ATTR{address}=="68:05:ca:42:17:39",ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0", ATTR{type}=="1",
KERNEL=="eth*", NAME="enp3s0"

I got the ATTR address from ifconfig.  I'm not real sure on the other
ATTR variables tho.

I did this on my main rig.  It is commented out at the moment.  I'll use
it as a guide on the NAS box tho.  May enable this on my main rig, just
so they all the same.

Ironically, I removed the net.enp* from the default runlevel and put
dhcpd back.  It starts no matter where the card is located with that. 
It just sees it, starts it and carries on.  Still, I'd like all my
installs to be done the same way.  It's hard enough to remember how to
do things.  :/

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] SAN multipathing

[Grant Taylor]

Hi,

I'm trying to set up SAN multipathing via dm-multipath for the first 
time in about a decade.


I am seeing the test LUNs (1 x 10 GB and 1 x 100 GB) twice on my 
relatively recent (< 60 days out of date) Gentoo system.  But I'm not 
able to get multipath to see anything.


Before I go too deep I was curious what the current state on Fibre 
Channel multi-path LUNs is in Linux, specifically Gentoo Linux.


The last time I did this was RHEL / CentOS 6.x, probably more than a 
decade ago.




--
Grant. . . .

Re: SOLVED: Re: [gentoo-user] Getting WiFi to work

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday, 28 May 2024 15:52:35 BST Dale wrote:
> Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Sunday, 21 April 2024 23:58:04 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> >> On Sunday, 21 April 2024 23:30:54 BST Wol wrote:
> >>> Any chance you can document those steps?
> >> 
> >> Yes, I ought to do that. I just need to remember...   ;-)
> > 
> > I think there's only one thing for me to say: whatever web site I used
> > said to "chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf". It seems to be a dreadful hack, but
> > it does work.
> > 
> > -- Regards, Peter.
> 
> I don't have wifi on my rig so this might not apply.  When I started
> using a VPN, I had trouble with resolv.conf not getting the right
> settings when openvpn started.  I used resolv.conf.head and
> resolve.conf.tail to fix it.  That way resolve.conf could have changes
> to things that needed to be changed but my setting would over rule them
> if needed. 
> 
> Just something you might want to ponder on.  It might, just might,
> provide a better fix. 

Right. I'll look into that. Thanks Dale.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.


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Re: SOLVED: Re: [gentoo-user] Getting WiFi to work

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Sunday, 21 April 2024 23:58:04 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> On Sunday, 21 April 2024 23:30:54 BST Wol wrote:
>>> Any chance you can document those steps?
>> Yes, I ought to do that. I just need to remember...   ;-)
> I think there's only one thing for me to say: whatever web site I used said 
> to 
> "chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf". It seems to be a dreadful hack, but it does 
> work.
>
> -- Regards, Peter.


I don't have wifi on my rig so this might not apply.  When I started
using a VPN, I had trouble with resolv.conf not getting the right
settings when openvpn started.  I used resolv.conf.head and
resolve.conf.tail to fix it.  That way resolve.conf could have changes
to things that needed to be changed but my setting would over rule them
if needed. 

Just something you might want to ponder on.  It might, just might,
provide a better fix. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: SOLVED: Re: [gentoo-user] Getting WiFi to work

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday, 21 April 2024 23:58:04 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Sunday, 21 April 2024 23:30:54 BST Wol wrote:

> > Any chance you can document those steps?
> 
> Yes, I ought to do that. I just need to remember...   ;-)

I think there's only one thing for me to say: whatever web site I used said to 
"chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf". It seems to be a dreadful hack, but it does 
work.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.


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Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] where is linux-firmware.log?

[Jude DaShiell]

I found out the existing system had installed with bios and not gpt.  When
I mostly got the gentoo install done I went the gpt path and that set up
complications.  Using gdisk to put gpt on the drives destroyed both the
gentoo system and the original system.
Reinstallation of the original system left me with a partition that had a
corrupted gpt on it.  After going through new email I will have gdisk
repair that partition then reboot and see if the original system continues
to work or if clearing that corruption also erased the original system.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Mon, 27 May 2024, Jack wrote:

> On 2024.05.26 07:11, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> >I have tried a couple different things so linux-firmware and other
> >packages can find the boot location and none of them have worked.
> >I'm going with openrc and efi and gpt.
> >originally I made an efi partition and mounted it mount /dev/sda1
> >/mnt/gentoo/efi once the efi directory had been created.
> >later I made /mnt/boot/efi and mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/boot/efi
> >I even named /dev/sda1 /boot in parted on existing system.
> >Still linux-firmware continues putting everything in /mnt/gentoo/boot.
> Try grepping for "/mnt/gentoo/boot" in /etc to see if that path is stuck in
> some config file.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] where is linux-firmware.log?

[Jack]

On 2024.05.26 07:11, Jude DaShiell wrote:

I have tried a couple different things so linux-firmware and other
packages can find the boot location and none of them have worked.
I'm going with openrc and efi and gpt.
originally I made an efi partition and mounted it mount /dev/sda1
/mnt/gentoo/efi once the efi directory had been created.
later I made /mnt/boot/efi and mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/boot/efi
I even named /dev/sda1 /boot in parted on existing system.
Still linux-firmware continues putting everything in /mnt/gentoo/boot.
Try grepping for "/mnt/gentoo/boot" in /etc to see if that path is  
stuck in some config file.

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Jude DaShiell]

Attempted disk repair failed.  All of gentoo got cleaned off that disk
along with all partition data.  I thought that disk had been wiped some
time ago and my mistake was failing to check what was actually on that
disk before trying to install gentoo on it.  The good thing about this is,
familiarity with the gentoo install process was gained so some of this
stuff should be easier the next time I go for it.
Now I think of it, those use flags could actually constitute a security
feature being a unique feature in linux.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Mon, 27 May 2024, Michael wrote:

> We have the following IDs associated with block devices and their filesystem:
>
> 1. Partition type.  For example the ESP with partition type 'ef00', has the
> GPT UID:
>
> Partition GUID code: C12A7328-F81F-11D2-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B (EFI system
> partition)
>
> You can check this if you launch gdisk, press i, followed by the number of a
> partition, e.g. 1 for your ESP.  This is the discoverable partition GUID
> string and is the same for all ESP type partitions.
>
> 2. There is also a unique ID stored in the GPT for each partition, this is
> different to the partition GUID code above:
>
> Partition unique GUID: a different 32 long character string, also in groups of
> 8-4-4-4-12 characters.
>
> This is the long string used by the efibootmgr to identify the ESP.  If you
> have more than disk and each disk has its own ESP, the efibootmgr will list
> them all with their unique 32 character partition GUID.
>
> If your efibootmgr incantation does not show the GUID of your ESP, then the
> installation of GRUB is incorrect.  Use the options I mentioned in my previous
> message.
>
> 3. There is the filesystem UUID, unique to each filesystem.  For a FAT
> formatted partition this will be 4-4 (8 character long).  Typically this is
> used in fstab.
>
> There's also a disk GUID, but this does not affect what you're trying to do
> here.
>
> The standards and landscape of different partitions, their mountpoint and
> bootloaders has changed over the years.  What the Handbook provides reflects
> the current state of affairs.
>
> Please read these relatively recent news items as they may affect how you
> install a binary kernel and initramfs (I don't use this kernel here to know
> its nuances):
>
> https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-03-12-debianutils-installkernel.html
>
> https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-05-17-dracut-ext-kmods.html
>
>
> On Monday, 27 May 2024 15:32:40 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > None of the uid's for sda1 sda2 and sda3 are displayed in efibootmgr.
> > /dev/sda1 is vfat and /dev/sda3 is xfs.
> >
> >
> > --
> >  Jude 
> >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> >  Please use in that order."
> >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> >
> > On Mon, 27 May 2024, Michael wrote:
> > > The command:
> > >
> > > lsblk -f
> > >
> > > will reveal the UUID of the respective partitions.  This is normally used
> > > in your fstab, unless you created this manually, in which case you can
> > > use logical names or filesystem labels.
> > >
> > > The efibootmgr will display the partition UUID where the .efi executable
> > > resides.
> > >
> > > You can check which block device has the same partition UUID with:
> > >
> > > lsblk -o NAME,SIZE,PARTTYPENAME,PARTUUID
> > >
> > > Note: the partition UUID is different to the partition type UUID.
> > >
> > > You probably need to be explicit where the ESP mountpoint is, when you
> > > install grub; e.g.:
> > >
> > > grub-install --efi-directory=/efi /dev/sda
> > >
> > > You may in addition need to specify where the '--boot-directory' is.  Best
> > > you check this page to compare against the contents of your /efi and
> > > /boot, in case you missed any steps:
> > >
> > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB#UEFI_with_GPT
> > >
> > > On Monday, 27 May 2024 14:05:49 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > > grub-update found boot partition in /dev/sda3.  The problem I now have
> > > > is
> > > > I cannot boot into gentoo.
> > > > The efibootmgr program on original system shows no available gentoo boot
> > > > drive and has lots of hex output so I can't locate /dev/sda3 in
> > > > efibootmgr
> > > > and all gentoo partitions I created have been changed to conform to the
> > > > discoverable standard mentioned in the handbook.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > >  Jude 
> > > >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> > > >  Please use in that order."
> > > >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 27 May 2024, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > > > I think I fixed the problem by putting all of the boot stuff into the
> > > > > /mnt/gentoo/efi directory which has /dev/sda1 mounted to it.  Reason I
> > > > > think that problem got fixed was I repeated the steps and iucode 

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Michael]

OK, the GPT Hybrid is a hack to allow legacy OSs which do know how to process 
GPT table structures to be able to access up to three partitions on the disk 
by creating MBR entries for them.

Since you have a UEFI MoBo it is best you use GPT partitioning, with an ESP 
and the MoBo's UEFI firmware to boot the OS, instead of the legacy DOS 
partitioning scheme with a boot loader in the MBR.

So, you can try using gdisk to convert from MBR to the GPT scheme.  There 
shouldn't be any data loss, but in any case you know the need for recent 
backups of any data you want to keep. 

Run gdisk.  It will announce something like:

"Found invalid GPT and valid MBR; converting MBR to GPT format
in memory."

Or,

"Found valid GPT with protective MBR; using GPT."

At this point you can enter w to write this GPT scheme to the disk.

There is also a Recovery & Transformation Menu in gdisk.  You can enter this 
by pressing r on the main menu.

It has the f option to load the MBR and use it to build a GPT from it.

Beware, you will need to reinstall GRUB and update its configuration.  If 
emerging kernel-bin will do this for you, then all should be good to go.


On Monday, 27 May 2024 17:39:38 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Thanks for the help on gdisk.  I found both /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda3 are
> mbr and not gpt partitions.
> The weird thing was when setting these disks up fdisk offered to go into
> gpt hybrid as one of its menu choices.  I didn't go in there thinking that
> /dev/sda was already gpt.
>  -- Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
>  defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that
>  order." Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> 
> On Mon, 27 May 2024, Michael wrote:
> > We have the following IDs associated with block devices and their
> > filesystem:
> > 
> > 1. Partition type.  For example the ESP with partition type 'ef00', has
> > the
> > GPT UID:
> > 
> > Partition GUID code: C12A7328-F81F-11D2-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B (EFI system
> > partition)
> > 
> > You can check this if you launch gdisk, press i, followed by the number of
> > a partition, e.g. 1 for your ESP.  This is the discoverable partition
> > GUID string and is the same for all ESP type partitions.
> > 
> > 2. There is also a unique ID stored in the GPT for each partition, this is
> > different to the partition GUID code above:
> > 
> > Partition unique GUID: a different 32 long character string, also in
> > groups of 8-4-4-4-12 characters.
> > 
> > This is the long string used by the efibootmgr to identify the ESP.  If
> > you
> > have more than disk and each disk has its own ESP, the efibootmgr will
> > list
> > them all with their unique 32 character partition GUID.
> > 
> > If your efibootmgr incantation does not show the GUID of your ESP, then
> > the
> > installation of GRUB is incorrect.  Use the options I mentioned in my
> > previous message.
> > 
> > 3. There is the filesystem UUID, unique to each filesystem.  For a FAT
> > formatted partition this will be 4-4 (8 character long).  Typically this
> > is
> > used in fstab.
> > 
> > There's also a disk GUID, but this does not affect what you're trying to
> > do
> > here.
> > 
> > The standards and landscape of different partitions, their mountpoint and
> > bootloaders has changed over the years.  What the Handbook provides
> > reflects the current state of affairs.
> > 
> > Please read these relatively recent news items as they may affect how you
> > install a binary kernel and initramfs (I don't use this kernel here to
> > know
> > its nuances):
> > 
> > https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-03-12-debianutils-installke
> > rnel.html
> > 
> > https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-05-17-dracut-ext-kmods.html
> > 
> > On Monday, 27 May 2024 15:32:40 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > None of the uid's for sda1 sda2 and sda3 are displayed in efibootmgr.
> > > /dev/sda1 is vfat and /dev/sda3 is xfs.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > >  Jude 
> > >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> > >  Please use in that order."
> > >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> > > 
> > > On Mon, 27 May 2024, Michael wrote:
> > > > The command:
> > > > 
> > > > lsblk -f
> > > > 
> > > > will reveal the UUID of the respective partitions.  This is normally
> > > > used
> > > > in your fstab, unless you created this manually, in which case you can
> > > > use logical names or filesystem labels.
> > > > 
> > > > The efibootmgr will display the partition UUID where the .efi
> > > > executable
> > > > resides.
> > > > 
> > > > You can check which block device has the same partition UUID with:
> > > > 
> > > > lsblk -o NAME,SIZE,PARTTYPENAME,PARTUUID
> > > > 
> > > > Note: the partition UUID is different to the partition type UUID.
> > > > 
> > > > You probably need to be explicit where the ESP mountpoint is, when you
> > > > install grub; e.g.:
> > > > 
> > > > grub-install --efi-directory=/efi /dev/sda
> > > > 
> > > > You may in addition need to specify where 

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Jude DaShiell]

Thanks for the help on gdisk.  I found both /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda3 are
mbr and not gpt partitions.
The weird thing was when setting these disks up fdisk offered to go into
gpt hybrid as one of its menu choices.  I didn't go in there thinking that
/dev/sda was already gpt.
 -- Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
 defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that
 order." Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Mon, 27 May 2024, Michael wrote:

> We have the following IDs associated with block devices and their filesystem:
>
> 1. Partition type.  For example the ESP with partition type 'ef00', has the
> GPT UID:
>
> Partition GUID code: C12A7328-F81F-11D2-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B (EFI system
> partition)
>
> You can check this if you launch gdisk, press i, followed by the number of a
> partition, e.g. 1 for your ESP.  This is the discoverable partition GUID
> string and is the same for all ESP type partitions.
>
> 2. There is also a unique ID stored in the GPT for each partition, this is
> different to the partition GUID code above:
>
> Partition unique GUID: a different 32 long character string, also in groups of
> 8-4-4-4-12 characters.
>
> This is the long string used by the efibootmgr to identify the ESP.  If you
> have more than disk and each disk has its own ESP, the efibootmgr will list
> them all with their unique 32 character partition GUID.
>
> If your efibootmgr incantation does not show the GUID of your ESP, then the
> installation of GRUB is incorrect.  Use the options I mentioned in my previous
> message.
>
> 3. There is the filesystem UUID, unique to each filesystem.  For a FAT
> formatted partition this will be 4-4 (8 character long).  Typically this is
> used in fstab.
>
> There's also a disk GUID, but this does not affect what you're trying to do
> here.
>
> The standards and landscape of different partitions, their mountpoint and
> bootloaders has changed over the years.  What the Handbook provides reflects
> the current state of affairs.
>
> Please read these relatively recent news items as they may affect how you
> install a binary kernel and initramfs (I don't use this kernel here to know
> its nuances):
>
> https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-03-12-debianutils-installkernel.html
>
> https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-05-17-dracut-ext-kmods.html
>
>
> On Monday, 27 May 2024 15:32:40 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > None of the uid's for sda1 sda2 and sda3 are displayed in efibootmgr.
> > /dev/sda1 is vfat and /dev/sda3 is xfs.
> >
> >
> > --
> >  Jude 
> >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> >  Please use in that order."
> >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> >
> > On Mon, 27 May 2024, Michael wrote:
> > > The command:
> > >
> > > lsblk -f
> > >
> > > will reveal the UUID of the respective partitions.  This is normally used
> > > in your fstab, unless you created this manually, in which case you can
> > > use logical names or filesystem labels.
> > >
> > > The efibootmgr will display the partition UUID where the .efi executable
> > > resides.
> > >
> > > You can check which block device has the same partition UUID with:
> > >
> > > lsblk -o NAME,SIZE,PARTTYPENAME,PARTUUID
> > >
> > > Note: the partition UUID is different to the partition type UUID.
> > >
> > > You probably need to be explicit where the ESP mountpoint is, when you
> > > install grub; e.g.:
> > >
> > > grub-install --efi-directory=/efi /dev/sda
> > >
> > > You may in addition need to specify where the '--boot-directory' is.  Best
> > > you check this page to compare against the contents of your /efi and
> > > /boot, in case you missed any steps:
> > >
> > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB#UEFI_with_GPT
> > >
> > > On Monday, 27 May 2024 14:05:49 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > > grub-update found boot partition in /dev/sda3.  The problem I now have
> > > > is
> > > > I cannot boot into gentoo.
> > > > The efibootmgr program on original system shows no available gentoo boot
> > > > drive and has lots of hex output so I can't locate /dev/sda3 in
> > > > efibootmgr
> > > > and all gentoo partitions I created have been changed to conform to the
> > > > discoverable standard mentioned in the handbook.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > >  Jude 
> > > >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> > > >  Please use in that order."
> > > >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 27 May 2024, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > > > I think I fixed the problem by putting all of the boot stuff into the
> > > > > /mnt/gentoo/efi directory which has /dev/sda1 mounted to it.  Reason I
> > > > > think that problem got fixed was I repeated the steps and iucode steps
> > > > > from emerge linux-firmware all the way down to emerge
> > > > > gentoo-kernel-bin
> > > > > and emerge didn't once mention it assumes I have no separate boot
> > > > > partition.  So I expect to be testing the system a little later today
> 

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Jude DaShiell]

I didn't run grub-install yet but emerged gentoo-kernel-bin so maybe that
ran grub-install for me.
I'll check with gdisk and thanks much for your help on this problem.


-- 
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Mon, 27 May 2024, Michael wrote:

> We have the following IDs associated with block devices and their filesystem:
>
> 1. Partition type.  For example the ESP with partition type 'ef00', has the
> GPT UID:
>
> Partition GUID code: C12A7328-F81F-11D2-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B (EFI system
> partition)
>
> You can check this if you launch gdisk, press i, followed by the number of a
> partition, e.g. 1 for your ESP.  This is the discoverable partition GUID
> string and is the same for all ESP type partitions.
>
> 2. There is also a unique ID stored in the GPT for each partition, this is
> different to the partition GUID code above:
>
> Partition unique GUID: a different 32 long character string, also in groups of
> 8-4-4-4-12 characters.
>
> This is the long string used by the efibootmgr to identify the ESP.  If you
> have more than disk and each disk has its own ESP, the efibootmgr will list
> them all with their unique 32 character partition GUID.
>
> If your efibootmgr incantation does not show the GUID of your ESP, then the
> installation of GRUB is incorrect.  Use the options I mentioned in my previous
> message.
>
> 3. There is the filesystem UUID, unique to each filesystem.  For a FAT
> formatted partition this will be 4-4 (8 character long).  Typically this is
> used in fstab.
>
> There's also a disk GUID, but this does not affect what you're trying to do
> here.
>
> The standards and landscape of different partitions, their mountpoint and
> bootloaders has changed over the years.  What the Handbook provides reflects
> the current state of affairs.
>
> Please read these relatively recent news items as they may affect how you
> install a binary kernel and initramfs (I don't use this kernel here to know
> its nuances):
>
> https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-03-12-debianutils-installkernel.html
>
> https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-05-17-dracut-ext-kmods.html
>
>
> On Monday, 27 May 2024 15:32:40 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > None of the uid's for sda1 sda2 and sda3 are displayed in efibootmgr.
> > /dev/sda1 is vfat and /dev/sda3 is xfs.
> >
> >
> > --
> >  Jude 
> >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> >  Please use in that order."
> >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> >
> > On Mon, 27 May 2024, Michael wrote:
> > > The command:
> > >
> > > lsblk -f
> > >
> > > will reveal the UUID of the respective partitions.  This is normally used
> > > in your fstab, unless you created this manually, in which case you can
> > > use logical names or filesystem labels.
> > >
> > > The efibootmgr will display the partition UUID where the .efi executable
> > > resides.
> > >
> > > You can check which block device has the same partition UUID with:
> > >
> > > lsblk -o NAME,SIZE,PARTTYPENAME,PARTUUID
> > >
> > > Note: the partition UUID is different to the partition type UUID.
> > >
> > > You probably need to be explicit where the ESP mountpoint is, when you
> > > install grub; e.g.:
> > >
> > > grub-install --efi-directory=/efi /dev/sda
> > >
> > > You may in addition need to specify where the '--boot-directory' is.  Best
> > > you check this page to compare against the contents of your /efi and
> > > /boot, in case you missed any steps:
> > >
> > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB#UEFI_with_GPT
> > >
> > > On Monday, 27 May 2024 14:05:49 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > > grub-update found boot partition in /dev/sda3.  The problem I now have
> > > > is
> > > > I cannot boot into gentoo.
> > > > The efibootmgr program on original system shows no available gentoo boot
> > > > drive and has lots of hex output so I can't locate /dev/sda3 in
> > > > efibootmgr
> > > > and all gentoo partitions I created have been changed to conform to the
> > > > discoverable standard mentioned in the handbook.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > >  Jude 
> > > >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> > > >  Please use in that order."
> > > >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 27 May 2024, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > > > I think I fixed the problem by putting all of the boot stuff into the
> > > > > /mnt/gentoo/efi directory which has /dev/sda1 mounted to it.  Reason I
> > > > > think that problem got fixed was I repeated the steps and iucode steps
> > > > > from emerge linux-firmware all the way down to emerge
> > > > > gentoo-kernel-bin
> > > > > and emerge didn't once mention it assumes I have no separate boot
> > > > > partition.  So I expect to be testing the system a little later today
> > > > > after running update-grub on the existing system which has osprober
> > > > > enabled.  If 

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Michael]

We have the following IDs associated with block devices and their filesystem:

1. Partition type.  For example the ESP with partition type 'ef00', has the 
GPT UID:

Partition GUID code: C12A7328-F81F-11D2-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B (EFI system 
partition)

You can check this if you launch gdisk, press i, followed by the number of a 
partition, e.g. 1 for your ESP.  This is the discoverable partition GUID 
string and is the same for all ESP type partitions.

2. There is also a unique ID stored in the GPT for each partition, this is 
different to the partition GUID code above:

Partition unique GUID: a different 32 long character string, also in groups of 
8-4-4-4-12 characters.

This is the long string used by the efibootmgr to identify the ESP.  If you 
have more than disk and each disk has its own ESP, the efibootmgr will list 
them all with their unique 32 character partition GUID.

If your efibootmgr incantation does not show the GUID of your ESP, then the 
installation of GRUB is incorrect.  Use the options I mentioned in my previous 
message.

3. There is the filesystem UUID, unique to each filesystem.  For a FAT 
formatted partition this will be 4-4 (8 character long).  Typically this is 
used in fstab.

There's also a disk GUID, but this does not affect what you're trying to do 
here.

The standards and landscape of different partitions, their mountpoint and 
bootloaders has changed over the years.  What the Handbook provides reflects 
the current state of affairs.

Please read these relatively recent news items as they may affect how you 
install a binary kernel and initramfs (I don't use this kernel here to know 
its nuances):

https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-03-12-debianutils-installkernel.html

https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2024-05-17-dracut-ext-kmods.html


On Monday, 27 May 2024 15:32:40 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> None of the uid's for sda1 sda2 and sda3 are displayed in efibootmgr.
> /dev/sda1 is vfat and /dev/sda3 is xfs.
> 
> 
> --
>  Jude 
>  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
>  Please use in that order."
>  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> 
> On Mon, 27 May 2024, Michael wrote:
> > The command:
> > 
> > lsblk -f
> > 
> > will reveal the UUID of the respective partitions.  This is normally used
> > in your fstab, unless you created this manually, in which case you can
> > use logical names or filesystem labels.
> > 
> > The efibootmgr will display the partition UUID where the .efi executable
> > resides.
> > 
> > You can check which block device has the same partition UUID with:
> > 
> > lsblk -o NAME,SIZE,PARTTYPENAME,PARTUUID
> > 
> > Note: the partition UUID is different to the partition type UUID.
> > 
> > You probably need to be explicit where the ESP mountpoint is, when you
> > install grub; e.g.:
> > 
> > grub-install --efi-directory=/efi /dev/sda
> > 
> > You may in addition need to specify where the '--boot-directory' is.  Best
> > you check this page to compare against the contents of your /efi and
> > /boot, in case you missed any steps:
> > 
> > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB#UEFI_with_GPT
> > 
> > On Monday, 27 May 2024 14:05:49 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > grub-update found boot partition in /dev/sda3.  The problem I now have
> > > is
> > > I cannot boot into gentoo.
> > > The efibootmgr program on original system shows no available gentoo boot
> > > drive and has lots of hex output so I can't locate /dev/sda3 in
> > > efibootmgr
> > > and all gentoo partitions I created have been changed to conform to the
> > > discoverable standard mentioned in the handbook.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > >  Jude 
> > >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> > >  Please use in that order."
> > >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> > > 
> > > On Mon, 27 May 2024, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > > I think I fixed the problem by putting all of the boot stuff into the
> > > > /mnt/gentoo/efi directory which has /dev/sda1 mounted to it.  Reason I
> > > > think that problem got fixed was I repeated the steps and iucode steps
> > > > from emerge linux-firmware all the way down to emerge
> > > > gentoo-kernel-bin
> > > > and emerge didn't once mention it assumes I have no separate boot
> > > > partition.  So I expect to be testing the system a little later today
> > > > after running update-grub on the existing system which has osprober
> > > > enabled.  If boot partition is found on sda1 I will have succeeded.



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Jude DaShiell]

None of the uid's for sda1 sda2 and sda3 are displayed in efibootmgr.
/dev/sda1 is vfat and /dev/sda3 is xfs.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Mon, 27 May 2024, Michael wrote:

> The command:
>
> lsblk -f
>
> will reveal the UUID of the respective partitions.  This is normally used in
> your fstab, unless you created this manually, in which case you can use
> logical names or filesystem labels.
>
> The efibootmgr will display the partition UUID where the .efi executable
> resides.
>
> You can check which block device has the same partition UUID with:
>
> lsblk -o NAME,SIZE,PARTTYPENAME,PARTUUID
>
> Note: the partition UUID is different to the partition type UUID.
>
> You probably need to be explicit where the ESP mountpoint is, when you install
> grub; e.g.:
>
> grub-install --efi-directory=/efi /dev/sda
>
> You may in addition need to specify where the '--boot-directory' is.  Best you
> check this page to compare against the contents of your /efi and /boot, in
> case you missed any steps:
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB#UEFI_with_GPT
>
>
> On Monday, 27 May 2024 14:05:49 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > grub-update found boot partition in /dev/sda3.  The problem I now have is
> > I cannot boot into gentoo.
> > The efibootmgr program on original system shows no available gentoo boot
> > drive and has lots of hex output so I can't locate /dev/sda3 in efibootmgr
> > and all gentoo partitions I created have been changed to conform to the
> > discoverable standard mentioned in the handbook.
> >
> >
> > --
> >  Jude 
> >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> >  Please use in that order."
> >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> >
> > On Mon, 27 May 2024, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > I think I fixed the problem by putting all of the boot stuff into the
> > > /mnt/gentoo/efi directory which has /dev/sda1 mounted to it.  Reason I
> > > think that problem got fixed was I repeated the steps and iucode steps
> > > from emerge linux-firmware all the way down to emerge gentoo-kernel-bin
> > > and emerge didn't once mention it assumes I have no separate boot
> > > partition.  So I expect to be testing the system a little later today
> > > after running update-grub on the existing system which has osprober
> > > enabled.  If boot partition is found on sda1 I will have succeeded.
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Michael]

The command:

lsblk -f

will reveal the UUID of the respective partitions.  This is normally used in 
your fstab, unless you created this manually, in which case you can use 
logical names or filesystem labels.

The efibootmgr will display the partition UUID where the .efi executable 
resides.

You can check which block device has the same partition UUID with:

lsblk -o NAME,SIZE,PARTTYPENAME,PARTUUID

Note: the partition UUID is different to the partition type UUID.

You probably need to be explicit where the ESP mountpoint is, when you install 
grub; e.g.:

grub-install --efi-directory=/efi /dev/sda

You may in addition need to specify where the '--boot-directory' is.  Best you 
check this page to compare against the contents of your /efi and /boot, in 
case you missed any steps:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB#UEFI_with_GPT


On Monday, 27 May 2024 14:05:49 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> grub-update found boot partition in /dev/sda3.  The problem I now have is
> I cannot boot into gentoo.
> The efibootmgr program on original system shows no available gentoo boot
> drive and has lots of hex output so I can't locate /dev/sda3 in efibootmgr
> and all gentoo partitions I created have been changed to conform to the
> discoverable standard mentioned in the handbook.
> 
> 
> --
>  Jude 
>  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
>  Please use in that order."
>  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> 
> On Mon, 27 May 2024, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > I think I fixed the problem by putting all of the boot stuff into the
> > /mnt/gentoo/efi directory which has /dev/sda1 mounted to it.  Reason I
> > think that problem got fixed was I repeated the steps and iucode steps
> > from emerge linux-firmware all the way down to emerge gentoo-kernel-bin
> > and emerge didn't once mention it assumes I have no separate boot
> > partition.  So I expect to be testing the system a little later today
> > after running update-grub on the existing system which has osprober
> > enabled.  If boot partition is found on sda1 I will have succeeded.




signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Jude DaShiell]

I will always be installing from stage3 not the boot media since I can't
bring up speakup and have it read everything on the screen after booting.
I'm glad the script will be helpful for you and anyone else that can use
it in my situation or who prefers to install starting with stage3.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Mon, 27 May 2024, Dale wrote:

> Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > Here's the script I used to get from an existing system into the gentoo
> > environment to install the gentoo system.  I started with stage3 and chose
> > openrc and went down that path.
> >
> > #!/usr/bin/bash
> > # file: sgentoo.sh - setup gentoo mounts
> > echo "once disk setup from gentoo handbook is complete"
> > echo "press  to chroot into gentoo environment."
> > read
> > sudo mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/gentoo
> > sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/gentoo/efi
> > sudo swapon /dev/sda2
> > sudo cp --dereference /etc/resolv.conf /mnt/gentoo/etc
> > sudo mount --types proc /proc /mnt/gentoo/proc
> > sudo mount --rbind /sys /mnt/gentoo/sys
> > sudo mount --rbind /dev /mnt/gentoo/dev
> > sudo mount --bind /run /mnt/gentoo/run
> > sudo chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash
> >
> > I found this useful since the gentoo installation as far as it went wasn't
> > done in a single session.
> >
>
>
> I found this useful when I was installing on my NAS box, a couple of
> them actually.  I'm still on old fashioned BIOS but this may come in
> handy.  It should work for EFI as well.  From the install handbook. 
>
>
> *Tip*
> If using Gentoo's install media, this step can be replaced with simply:
> arch-chroot /mnt/gentoo.
>
>
> If you are booting from one of the Gentoo boot media, that command
> should mount everything and chroot you into the system.  All that
> mounting is a bit tedious at times.  ;-)  I'm not sure when that command
> got added but it is nice to have.  You can find that in the chrooting
> section.
>
> Hope that helps.  The next install if nothing else. 
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-) 
>

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Dale]

Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Here's the script I used to get from an existing system into the gentoo
> environment to install the gentoo system.  I started with stage3 and chose
> openrc and went down that path.
>
> #!/usr/bin/bash
> # file: sgentoo.sh - setup gentoo mounts
> echo "once disk setup from gentoo handbook is complete"
> echo "press  to chroot into gentoo environment."
> read
> sudo mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/gentoo
> sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/gentoo/efi
> sudo swapon /dev/sda2
> sudo cp --dereference /etc/resolv.conf /mnt/gentoo/etc
> sudo mount --types proc /proc /mnt/gentoo/proc
> sudo mount --rbind /sys /mnt/gentoo/sys
> sudo mount --rbind /dev /mnt/gentoo/dev
> sudo mount --bind /run /mnt/gentoo/run
> sudo chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash
>
> I found this useful since the gentoo installation as far as it went wasn't
> done in a single session.
>


I found this useful when I was installing on my NAS box, a couple of
them actually.  I'm still on old fashioned BIOS but this may come in
handy.  It should work for EFI as well.  From the install handbook. 


*Tip*
If using Gentoo's install media, this step can be replaced with simply:
arch-chroot /mnt/gentoo.


If you are booting from one of the Gentoo boot media, that command
should mount everything and chroot you into the system.  All that
mounting is a bit tedious at times.  ;-)  I'm not sure when that command
got added but it is nice to have.  You can find that in the chrooting
section.

Hope that helps.  The next install if nothing else. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Jude DaShiell]

grub-update found boot partition in /dev/sda3.  The problem I now have is
I cannot boot into gentoo.
The efibootmgr program on original system shows no available gentoo boot
drive and has lots of hex output so I can't locate /dev/sda3 in efibootmgr
and all gentoo partitions I created have been changed to conform to the
discoverable standard mentioned in the handbook.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Mon, 27 May 2024, Jude DaShiell wrote:

> I think I fixed the problem by putting all of the boot stuff into the
> /mnt/gentoo/efi directory which has /dev/sda1 mounted to it.  Reason I
> think that problem got fixed was I repeated the steps and iucode steps
> from emerge linux-firmware all the way down to emerge gentoo-kernel-bin
> and emerge didn't once mention it assumes I have no separate boot
> partition.  So I expect to be testing the system a little later today
> after running update-grub on the existing system which has osprober
> enabled.  If boot partition is found on sda1 I will have succeeded.
>
>
> --
>  Jude 
>  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
>  Please use in that order."
>  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
>
> On Mon, 27 May 2024, Michael wrote:
>
> > Hi Jude,
> >
> > There are few decisions you have to make before you consider how to 
> > partition
> > your disk, which affect where /boot may be located.
> >
> > 1. EFI System Partition (ESP)
> >
> > This is a GPT partition of type ef00 and formatted as FAT32, necessary for 
> > an
> > EFI motherboard which is not configured to boot in BIOS/Legacy mode.
> >
> > This partition will eventually contain the boot manager's filesystem (e.g.
> > GRUB, rEFInd) and its efi executable, e.g. grubx64.efi and config file.
> >
> > It should be mounted under /efi on the installed system.
> >
> > Therefore what you have done is correct and in accordance with the Gentoo
> > Handbook.
> >
> > 2. A partition for /boot
> >
> > This is not strictly necessary, as the /boot directory can be located in 
> > the /
> > root partition itself.  Most binary distributions do this.  However, Gentoo 
> > is
> > flexible enough and you can create a separate partition for /boot if you so
> > prefer.  Just make sure the /boot partition is mounted when you come to
> > install your kernel, initramfs, and emerge linux-firmware.  Assuming you are
> > using the GRUB boot manager, you can format a separate /boot partition with
> > any of the Linux compatible filesystems:
> >
> > https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/grub.html#Filesystems
> >
> > NOTE: With systemd and bootctl you would create a partition of type ea00
> > XBOOTLDR and mount it on /boot.  Different OS' will install their kernel
> > images in there and bootctl will be able to access them.
> >
> > 3. Manual Alternatives
> >
> > If you use EFI stub for the UEFI MoBo firmware to boot the system directly
> > without a 3rd party bootloader, then you can mount the ESP on /boot and 
> > create
> > a /boot/EFI directory to place your kernel file executables there.
> >
> > The default is as per item 1 above.
> >
> >
> > On Monday, 27 May 2024 10:05:40 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > After having followed the handbook I end up with /boot in /sda3 even
> > > though mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/gentoo/efi had been run and /dev/sda1 is vfat
> > > 32 format and is efi system.
> > > What did I do wrong?
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >  Jude 
> > >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> > >  Please use in that order."
> > >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> >
> >
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Jude DaShiell]

I think I fixed the problem by putting all of the boot stuff into the
/mnt/gentoo/efi directory which has /dev/sda1 mounted to it.  Reason I
think that problem got fixed was I repeated the steps and iucode steps
from emerge linux-firmware all the way down to emerge gentoo-kernel-bin
and emerge didn't once mention it assumes I have no separate boot
partition.  So I expect to be testing the system a little later today
after running update-grub on the existing system which has osprober
enabled.  If boot partition is found on sda1 I will have succeeded.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Mon, 27 May 2024, Michael wrote:

> Hi Jude,
>
> There are few decisions you have to make before you consider how to partition
> your disk, which affect where /boot may be located.
>
> 1. EFI System Partition (ESP)
>
> This is a GPT partition of type ef00 and formatted as FAT32, necessary for an
> EFI motherboard which is not configured to boot in BIOS/Legacy mode.
>
> This partition will eventually contain the boot manager's filesystem (e.g.
> GRUB, rEFInd) and its efi executable, e.g. grubx64.efi and config file.
>
> It should be mounted under /efi on the installed system.
>
> Therefore what you have done is correct and in accordance with the Gentoo
> Handbook.
>
> 2. A partition for /boot
>
> This is not strictly necessary, as the /boot directory can be located in the /
> root partition itself.  Most binary distributions do this.  However, Gentoo is
> flexible enough and you can create a separate partition for /boot if you so
> prefer.  Just make sure the /boot partition is mounted when you come to
> install your kernel, initramfs, and emerge linux-firmware.  Assuming you are
> using the GRUB boot manager, you can format a separate /boot partition with
> any of the Linux compatible filesystems:
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/grub.html#Filesystems
>
> NOTE: With systemd and bootctl you would create a partition of type ea00
> XBOOTLDR and mount it on /boot.  Different OS' will install their kernel
> images in there and bootctl will be able to access them.
>
> 3. Manual Alternatives
>
> If you use EFI stub for the UEFI MoBo firmware to boot the system directly
> without a 3rd party bootloader, then you can mount the ESP on /boot and create
> a /boot/EFI directory to place your kernel file executables there.
>
> The default is as per item 1 above.
>
>
> On Monday, 27 May 2024 10:05:40 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > After having followed the handbook I end up with /boot in /sda3 even
> > though mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/gentoo/efi had been run and /dev/sda1 is vfat
> > 32 format and is efi system.
> > What did I do wrong?
> >
> >
> > --
> >  Jude 
> >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> >  Please use in that order."
> >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Michael]

Hi Jude,

There are few decisions you have to make before you consider how to partition 
your disk, which affect where /boot may be located.

1. EFI System Partition (ESP)

This is a GPT partition of type ef00 and formatted as FAT32, necessary for an 
EFI motherboard which is not configured to boot in BIOS/Legacy mode.

This partition will eventually contain the boot manager's filesystem (e.g. 
GRUB, rEFInd) and its efi executable, e.g. grubx64.efi and config file.

It should be mounted under /efi on the installed system.

Therefore what you have done is correct and in accordance with the Gentoo 
Handbook.

2. A partition for /boot

This is not strictly necessary, as the /boot directory can be located in the /
root partition itself.  Most binary distributions do this.  However, Gentoo is 
flexible enough and you can create a separate partition for /boot if you so 
prefer.  Just make sure the /boot partition is mounted when you come to 
install your kernel, initramfs, and emerge linux-firmware.  Assuming you are 
using the GRUB boot manager, you can format a separate /boot partition with 
any of the Linux compatible filesystems:

https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/grub.html#Filesystems

NOTE: With systemd and bootctl you would create a partition of type ea00 
XBOOTLDR and mount it on /boot.  Different OS' will install their kernel 
images in there and bootctl will be able to access them.

3. Manual Alternatives

If you use EFI stub for the UEFI MoBo firmware to boot the system directly 
without a 3rd party bootloader, then you can mount the ESP on /boot and create 
a /boot/EFI directory to place your kernel file executables there.

The default is as per item 1 above.


On Monday, 27 May 2024 10:05:40 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> After having followed the handbook I end up with /boot in /sda3 even
> though mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/gentoo/efi had been run and /dev/sda1 is vfat
> 32 format and is efi system.
> What did I do wrong?
> 
> 
> --
>  Jude 
>  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
>  Please use in that order."
>  Ed Howdershelt 1940.



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Jude DaShiell]

Here's the script I used to get from an existing system into the gentoo
environment to install the gentoo system.  I started with stage3 and chose
openrc and went down that path.

#!/usr/bin/bash
# file: sgentoo.sh - setup gentoo mounts
echo "once disk setup from gentoo handbook is complete"
echo "press  to chroot into gentoo environment."
read
sudo mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/gentoo
sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/gentoo/efi
sudo swapon /dev/sda2
sudo cp --dereference /etc/resolv.conf /mnt/gentoo/etc
sudo mount --types proc /proc /mnt/gentoo/proc
sudo mount --rbind /sys /mnt/gentoo/sys
sudo mount --rbind /dev /mnt/gentoo/dev
sudo mount --bind /run /mnt/gentoo/run
sudo chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash

I found this useful since the gentoo installation as far as it went wasn't
done in a single session.

-- 
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Mon, 27 May 2024, Jude DaShiell wrote:

> After having followed the handbook I end up with /boot in /sda3 even
> though mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/gentoo/efi had been run and /dev/sda1 is vfat
> 32 format and is efi system.
> What did I do wrong?
>
>
> --
>  Jude 
>  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
>  Please use in that order."
>  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
>
>

[gentoo-user] gentoo boot content in wrong partition

[Jude DaShiell]

After having followed the handbook I end up with /boot in /sda3 even
though mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/gentoo/efi had been run and /dev/sda1 is vfat
32 format and is efi system.
What did I do wrong?


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

Re: [gentoo-user] where is linux-firmware.log?

[Jude DaShiell]

I have tried a couple different things so linux-firmware and other
packages can find the boot location and none of them have worked.
I'm going with openrc and efi and gpt.
originally I made an efi partition and mounted it mount /dev/sda1
/mnt/gentoo/efi once the efi directory had been created.
later I made /mnt/boot/efi and mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/boot/efi
I even named /dev/sda1 /boot in parted on existing system.
Still linux-firmware continues putting everything in /mnt/gentoo/boot.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Sun, 26 May 2024, Jude DaShiell wrote:

> I'm getting a pair of errors when I do emerge linux-firmware:
> undefined license group
> emerge Assuming no boot partition
>
>
>

[gentoo-user] where is linux-firmware.log?

[Jude DaShiell]

I'm getting a pair of errors when I do emerge linux-firmware:
undefined license group
emerge Assuming no boot partition


-- 
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Off Topic - UPnP servers

[Mark Knecht]

On Sat, May 25, 2024 at 3:14 PM Grant Edwards 
wrote:
>
> On 2024-05-24, Mark Knecht  wrote:
>
> > The unit showed up today and was a breeze to set up and get running
> > at a basic level. The device requires an app on my phone.
>
> That sets of an alarm for me.
>
> > The app is available for Android and Apple but not available for the
> > Amazon Fire tablet.
>
> Good luck...  I avoid products like that. There have been too many
> "smart" things in the past that required an app -- then the app
> stopped working two or three years later. The purchaser of the thing
> now has a useless lump, and has to start shopping for a replacement.

Yeah, that's a reasonable point of view and one I hadn't considered.

Cheers.
Mark

[gentoo-user] Re: Off Topic - UPnP servers

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-24, Mark Knecht  wrote:

> The unit showed up today and was a breeze to set up and get running
> at a basic level. The device requires an app on my phone.

That sets of an alarm for me.

> The app is available for Android and Apple but not available for the
> Amazon Fire tablet.

Good luck...  I avoid products like that. There have been too many
"smart" things in the past that required an app -- then the app
stopped working two or three years later. The purchaser of the thing
now has a useless lump, and has to start shopping for a replacement.

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Off Topic - UPnP servers

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 1:25 PM Tsukasa Mcp_Reznor 
wrote:
>
> For what it's worth I've been using gerbera for years, it'll pass-through
supported videos/codecs or you can set it up to transcode.   Highly
recommend it.  On my roku TV's I just use the roku media player, it'll see
UPnP servers just fine.

Thanks. Great info and much appreciated.

The unit showed up today and was a breeze to set up and get running at a
basic level. The device requires an app on my phone. The app is available
for Android and Apple but not available for the Amazon Fire tablet.

I was able to stream Internet Radio immediately. I then transferred
about 20% of my CD collection FLAC files to a flash drive and they play
fine and sound great. I am currently using the audio output on the unit but
will be testing my Schitt Modi DAC over the weekend, along with attempting
to connect to Plex.

One small problem I ran into is the unused flash drive I had in the flash
drive box had a default FAT filesystem on it and the FLAC library, ripped
mostly with k3b but also a little abcde, has characters in names that
aren't supported so I had some complaints getting things copied. I will say
that a big flash drive might be a great solution to not having to turn the
server on and having media available 24/7.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect build failed

[Jude DaShiell]

Both of these items have been handled.


-- 
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Fri, 24 May 2024, Michael wrote:

> Jude, the initial CFLAGS I suggested are safe, but suboptimal.  They do not
> tune your system's compiler to utilise all of your CPU's instructions.
>
> In the first instance, you should set the CFLAGS as appropriate for your PC
> and specifically include -march=native, as suggested by Waldo.  Please check
> this chapter in the Gentoo Handbook:
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/
> Stage#Configuring_compile_options
>
> Also, add the appropriate CPU USE flags either in CPU_FLAGS_X86="..." in your
> /etc/portage/make.conf, or in /etc/portage/package.use/00cpuflags.  You can
> install and run cpuid2cpuflags to print out your CPU's USE flags - e.g.:
>
> mkdir /etc/portage/package.use   # if not set up yet
> echo "*/* $(cpuid2cpuflags)" > /etc/portage/package.use/00cpuflags
>
> Then you can proceed with the steps in the Handbook to install your system.
>
> The download of binary packages is a more recent choice offered by Gentoo and
> can save time as opposed to compiling everything from source on your system.
> Previously posted links explain how to configure your system to set up and use
> a gentoo binhost.
>
> If there is a /binpackages/ subdirectory on the mirror it will contain the
> precompiled binary packages and given you are running a modern CPU, you should
> set /x86-64-v3 in your binrepos.conf.
>
> HTH.
>
> On Friday, 24 May 2024 13:29:46 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > Michael,
> >
> > The changes you selected worked.  I got mirrorselect compiled and ran it
> > and got http ftp and rsync repos defined.  I'm wondering have all of the
> > gentoo mirrors got binaries?
> >
> >
> > --
> >  Jude 
> >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> >  Please use in that order."
> >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> >
> > On Fri, 24 May 2024, Michael wrote:
> > > On Friday, 24 May 2024 09:57:36 BST Waldo Lemmer wrote:
> > > > Hi Michael,
> > > >
> > > > -march=x86-64 and -mtune=generic will not speed up your OS installation.
> > > > These flags tell compilers to produce binaries that can run on any AMD64
> > > > system and that aren't optimized for your specific system.
> > > >
> > > > These flags have no effect on binary packages, since those have already
> > > > been compiled.
> > >
> > > You're right, those are the settings the binary packages have been built
> > > with - my mistake, sorry!
> > >
> > > The CFLAGS on the client should/could be tuned to its own CPU with "-
> > > march=native". The "... speeding up of the OS installation" I had
> > > mentioned
> > > referred to downloading the binaries, rather than having to build them
> > > locally.
> > >
> > > Anyway, the CFLAGS Jude posted are incorrect:
> > >
> > > CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> > >
> > > and his CPU_FLAGS_X86 are incomplete:
> > >
> > > CPU_FLAGS_X86="mmx mmxext sse sse2"
> > >
> > > Your links should hopefully help Jude to set the correct settings for this
> > > system, before he continues with the Gentoo Handbook.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Off Topic - UPnP servers

[Tsukasa Mcp_Reznor]

For what it's worth I've been using gerbera for years, it'll pass-through 
supported videos/codecs or you can set it up to transcode.   Highly recommend 
it.  On my roku TV's I just use the roku media player, it'll see UPnP servers 
just fine.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Off Topic - UPnP servers

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 8:26 AM Grant Edwards 
wrote:
>
> On 2024-05-24, Mark Knecht  wrote:
>
> > I'm a Plex user for video and have also ripped my CD
> > collection. Plex plays audio fine to TVs that have a Plex app but
> > apparently sometimes doesn't work well (as of yet untested by me) to
> > network streaming players.
>
> I never got the Plex app for Roku to work in a usable manner (and I
> think it eventually got discontinued?).  The Plex app in Kodi has
> always worked fine for me (though I haven't used it for probably about
> a year).  Plex also worked with other DLNA clients I've tried (Kodi, VLC).
>
> > While I don't know if the above will be a problem I've purchased a
> > network streaming player and will test it out over the weekend when it
> > arrives but if Plex doesn't work, or doesn't work well,
>
> I'd be interested to hear what player you got and how it works with Plex.
>

The Cambridge Audio MXN10 which is arriving today. Good reviews but I've
never listened to it so that will be interesting. I'll be using an older
NAD pre
and power amp and a pair of Theil 1.2's. I'll start without my old
subwoofer
and see what it's like but the 1.2's aren't the greatest at low-end so I'll
add the SW if necessary.

I'd like to start with my ripped CD content but for about $10/month it will
stream from Tidal and a few other sources so if I have any trouble serving
content then I'll get a Tidal subscription.

I'll report back on the Plex side as it goes as well as any other servers I
try out. I'm sorta leaning toward Gerbera for it's simplicity and clean
looking interface but it comes down to how the server works with the
C.A. StreamMagic app as this streamer has no front panel controls.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers,
Mark

[gentoo-user] Re: Off Topic - UPnP servers

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-24, Mark Knecht  wrote:

> I'm a Plex user for video and have also ripped my CD
> collection. Plex plays audio fine to TVs that have a Plex app but
> apparently sometimes doesn't work well (as of yet untested by me) to
> network streaming players.

I never got the Plex app for Roku to work in a usable manner (and I
think it eventually got discontinued?).  The Plex app in Kodi has
always worked fine for me (though I haven't used it for probably about
a year).  Plex also worked with other DLNA clients I've tried (Kodi, VLC).

> While I don't know if the above will be a problem I've purchased a
> network streaming player and will test it out over the weekend when it
> arrives but if Plex doesn't work, or doesn't work well,

I'd be interested to hear what player you got and how it works with Plex.

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect build failed

[Michael]

Jude, the initial CFLAGS I suggested are safe, but suboptimal.  They do not 
tune your system's compiler to utilise all of your CPU's instructions.

In the first instance, you should set the CFLAGS as appropriate for your PC 
and specifically include -march=native, as suggested by Waldo.  Please check 
this chapter in the Gentoo Handbook:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/
Stage#Configuring_compile_options

Also, add the appropriate CPU USE flags either in CPU_FLAGS_X86="..." in your 
/etc/portage/make.conf, or in /etc/portage/package.use/00cpuflags.  You can 
install and run cpuid2cpuflags to print out your CPU's USE flags - e.g.:

mkdir /etc/portage/package.use   # if not set up yet
echo "*/* $(cpuid2cpuflags)" > /etc/portage/package.use/00cpuflags

Then you can proceed with the steps in the Handbook to install your system.

The download of binary packages is a more recent choice offered by Gentoo and 
can save time as opposed to compiling everything from source on your system.  
Previously posted links explain how to configure your system to set up and use 
a gentoo binhost.

If there is a /binpackages/ subdirectory on the mirror it will contain the 
precompiled binary packages and given you are running a modern CPU, you should 
set /x86-64-v3 in your binrepos.conf.

HTH.

On Friday, 24 May 2024 13:29:46 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Michael,
> 
> The changes you selected worked.  I got mirrorselect compiled and ran it
> and got http ftp and rsync repos defined.  I'm wondering have all of the
> gentoo mirrors got binaries?
> 
> 
> --
>  Jude 
>  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
>  Please use in that order."
>  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> 
> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Michael wrote:
> > On Friday, 24 May 2024 09:57:36 BST Waldo Lemmer wrote:
> > > Hi Michael,
> > > 
> > > -march=x86-64 and -mtune=generic will not speed up your OS installation.
> > > These flags tell compilers to produce binaries that can run on any AMD64
> > > system and that aren't optimized for your specific system.
> > > 
> > > These flags have no effect on binary packages, since those have already
> > > been compiled.
> > 
> > You're right, those are the settings the binary packages have been built
> > with - my mistake, sorry!
> > 
> > The CFLAGS on the client should/could be tuned to its own CPU with "-
> > march=native". The "... speeding up of the OS installation" I had
> > mentioned
> > referred to downloading the binaries, rather than having to build them
> > locally.
> > 
> > Anyway, the CFLAGS Jude posted are incorrect:
> > 
> > CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> > 
> > and his CPU_FLAGS_X86 are incomplete:
> > 
> > CPU_FLAGS_X86="mmx mmxext sse sse2"
> > 
> > Your links should hopefully help Jude to set the correct settings for this
> > system, before he continues with the Gentoo Handbook.



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect build failed

[Jude DaShiell]

Michael,

The changes you selected worked.  I got mirrorselect compiled and ran it
and got http ftp and rsync repos defined.  I'm wondering have all of the
gentoo mirrors got binaries?


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Fri, 24 May 2024, Michael wrote:

> On Friday, 24 May 2024 09:57:36 BST Waldo Lemmer wrote:
> > Hi Michael,
> >
> > -march=x86-64 and -mtune=generic will not speed up your OS installation.
> > These flags tell compilers to produce binaries that can run on any AMD64
> > system and that aren't optimized for your specific system.
> >
> > These flags have no effect on binary packages, since those have already
> > been compiled.
>
> You're right, those are the settings the binary packages have been built with
> - my mistake, sorry!
>
> The CFLAGS on the client should/could be tuned to its own CPU with "-
> march=native". The "... speeding up of the OS installation" I had mentioned
> referred to downloading the binaries, rather than having to build them
> locally.
>
> Anyway, the CFLAGS Jude posted are incorrect:
>
> CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
>
> and his CPU_FLAGS_X86 are incomplete:
>
> CPU_FLAGS_X86="mmx mmxext sse sse2"
>
> Your links should hopefully help Jude to set the correct settings for this
> system, before he continues with the Gentoo Handbook.

Re: [gentoo-user] 100% CPU load in qtwebengine

[Michael]

On Friday, 24 May 2024 11:52:55 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Thursday, 23 May 2024 20:13:27 BST Michael wrote:
> > On Thursday, 23 May 2024 14:07:16 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > Hello list,
> > > 
> > > On this box I have this:
> > > 
> > > # grep '\-j' /etc/portage/make.conf
> > > EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs --load-average=4 [...] "
> > > MAKEOPTS="-j4 -l4"
> > > 
> > > That seems to work well, except for a 20s period at the beginning of
> > > emerging qtwebengine, during which CPU load goes to 100%, according to
> > > gkrellm.
> > > 
> > > It seems that the ebuild runs a process other than make, ignoring
> > > make.conf. Does anyone here know what that might be, and why it
> > > disregards my preferences?
> > 
> > Does this happen while  the source archive is being decompressed?
> 
> It could be; the .tar.xz file is 288MB - but I didn't think bzip2 was
> multithreaded*. I tried to check by rerunning the emerge, but it found a
> Gentoo binary and went to fetch that.
> 
> *  And app-alternatives/bzip2 has installed bzip2.

The archive is compressed with xz, which in later versions can run in a 
multithreaded fashion.  I don't know if emerge calls upon it to operate with 
multiple threads (e.g. xz --threads 0 foo.xz).

PS. The bzip2 is single threaded and a slow compressor to boot, but pbzip2 is 
multithreaded.


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