RE: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
Walter Dnes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 5 August 2005 11:41 PM Even with that background, my transition to Gentoo wasn't 100% smooth. If I had tried jumping from Windows direct to Gentoo, without 4+ years of linux usage, I would've been lost. I think you are assuming that a Gentoo user would leap right in to use all of Gentoo's features, which is not necessarily the case. I've worked on VMS for 20 years (so the command line is not unusual), and done a few years of C programming on Tru64 Unix, and some trivial user admin (before even the shadow idea came along), and all this was more than 10 years ago. I've been on windows for the last 5 years, telneting to a VMS box to do work. I followed the AMD64 installation guide carefully, and the only thing that I fell over on was that the live CD makes the drive it is in the main drive, while after you boot off the hard drive, the CD drives may be in a different order. I thought my drive was broken, and had to manually frig with fstab, which I would have preferred not to do. The guide also implies that if you use genkernel, it will be just like the live CD boot, and either I stuffed that up or its lying. Anyway, at the moment I'm just playing KDE games. I also put the power ride badge on my Windows desktop at work. Oh, I also had SUSE briefly on the system, nice graphical installation, reiserfs kept failing fsck spuriously, finally booted, changed the root password, would not boot again, would not let me logon as root. Anyway, did not learn anything. During the Gentoo install I learned heaps. P.S. Setting up GRUB was by far the easiest part. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Contra Valere -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
Ryan Viljoen schreef: You guys and gals are all so proud of it but want to keep it to yourselves. And what is pride, and when does one feel proud? When one has done something that is hard for oneself to accomplish, successfully. You felt proud when you first tied your own shoes, after weeks/months of trying (and failing). Your parents felt proud of you when you spoke your first understandable word, after months/years of trying (and failing). I felt proud when I got five Linux distros and two versions of Windows multibooting on the same box, because when I 'decided' that's what I needed/wanted to do, I had no idea how to do it and make it work to the specifications needed to solve the problem I perceived at the time. Now I'm proud that I have enough Linux knowledge (and patience) to compute totally without Windows (the OS; I still use several Windows programs and have no ethical issue with that, as the Windows OS and applications designed to run under that OS are separate entities, imo, and therefore separately judged), and enough Linux confidence that there is no currently-known impetus that will 'force' me to install it (though I recognize that there are still areas that I don't know enough about that could compel me to do so in an 'emergency'). I am also proud to have enough confidence in my knowledge of Gentoo to say that this is my distro, which I will stick with, and even when I break it, I can fix it (or I will reinstall it if necessary); I no longer feel that breakages are unsolveable, or that the possible necessity for a reinstall means that it's Gentoo's fault, that Gentoo is really shit, or that I'm a failure at Linux in general, or Gentoo in particular (and I should get Ubuntu or something, which btw, I really didn't like at all). You're damn right I'm proud of myself-- it's taken me some 3 years to build this confidence, and some 1.5 to build this trust in Gentoo (and myself using Gentoo). The point is: 1. Linux itself is hard (especially for migrators from Windows) 2. Gentoo is a hard version of Linux (especially for Linspire-type users). I have nothing against promoting Gentoo, per se (though I don't particularly see why it's necessary to promote anything)-- I certainly have no particular desire to keep it to myself in some 'elitist chowderhead' sense. But I have kindness in my heart, and I am not going to randomly encourage complete strangers to do something double-difficult just because I like it a lot and think they might too, any more than I would drag someone I was dating out bungee-jumping on our second date. They might like it, but most people have a lot of fears that they would need to overcome in order to do so, and I don't know them well enough to judge whether they are in a position to begin that process. Kindness in my heart, because pride is something one earns, earning takes work, and kind people don't ask others to do extra work to earn a reward that the other may not value (and without knowledge of the individual, I cannot know if the other will value the pride earned by learning Gentoo, as opposed to a Linux that doesn't require so much work to reward one in a lesser way). Anyway, that's my two Eurocents; this isn't worth actually fighting about, as if one wants to use the logos, one can, if not, one won't. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
This email address is being abandoned due to the sick amount of junk mail I receive. Please stop spamming it. If you are a friend and need to contact me I can be reached at: Email: firstinitiallastinitial at neochicago.com IRC: scofflaw on EFnet Thanks! -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
On Thu, Aug 04, 2005 at 09:27:58AM -0500, Michael Sullivan wrote My first Linux was Red Hat 8.0. I then went to RH 9.0 and Fedora Core 1. I for one would not recommend Gentoo to a person who has never used Linux before. I certainly wouldn't have understood it. What he said. Around 1997 spam started getting really bad and my ISP offered users a spam filter. The user interface was actually a front-end to a procmail configurator. I dove in and started manually configuring procmail from the commandline. I had always been a command-line-commando in DOS, and I picked up the unix commandline reasonably quickly. In September 1999, I bought a Dell with Win98SE with 128 megs RAM and 450 mhz cpu (that's my current emergency backup machine). That left me with the old Pentium-Pro 120 mhz machine with 32 megs of RAM that originally came with Win95. My experimenting with procmail was eating into my 30 hours per month dialup account. People on the procmail mailing list mentioned that they were running procmail on linux. I picked up a remaindered copy of a Redhat linux 5.2 book with CDs (6.2 was released April 2000) and installed it on my old clunker. Initially, I used it for screwing around with procmail filters, but I also discovered linux had Netscape 4, and various email and news readers, plus primitive word processing and spreadsheets. I got another machine (433 mhz, 128 megs RAM white box) strictly for linux, and went online with Redhat 6.2 or 6.3. I slowly spent more and more time with the linux machine and less with the Windows machine, until I eventually decided to reformat the Windows machine and install Redhat linux on it as well. I played around with a few other distros, but always went back to Redhat. I did try CRUX, where I first learned make menuconfig and chrooting for install, etc. About that time, I found Mozilla 0.95 painfully slow on my old 433 and 450 mhz machines. That's when I first experimented with custom builds from tarballs. -O2 -march=i686 speeded up Mozilla. I also found out the hard way that -O3 and various extra unrolling options were not a good thing. Redhat 7.3 was probably the best end-user distro of its time. Redhat announced they were dropping support as of end of 2003. I switched to Debian in fall of 2003, where I stayed until summer of 2004. I had grown tired of Redhat's constant upgrade treadmill, so at first I loved Debian's lack thereof. However, it bit me in the late summer of 2004 when the latest Firefox and Realplayer versions refused to install, due to Debian's ancient gtk libs, or whatever. I switched back to CRUX, which was more uptodate, and also assumed -O2 -march=i686 rather than i386. Because my old Dell needed all the help it could get, I was always asking about more optimization. People suggested that if I really wanted more optimization, I should switch to Gentoo. Approx the end of 2004 I did exactly that. Even with that background, my transition to Gentoo wasn't 100% smooth. If I had tried jumping from Windows direct to Gentoo, without 4+ years of linux usage, I would've been lost. Think of it as a test of the strong: Newbies might choose Gentoo and run into all kinds of problems and ask stupid questions. Most will get frustrated and either leave Linux altogether or seek out a more user-friendly distrobution. The ones who stick around are the ones worth adding to the community. There's a concept in emergency medical battlefield treatment called triage. Divide the wounded into 3 groups... 1) Slight injuries; will recover fully even if you don't treat them. 2) Moderate injuries; can recover fully, but only if you treat them. 3) Mortally wounded; will die regardless of how much effort you put into treating them. The best use of resources is with the second group. Similarly, we might want to set up new-user list to help those people who come close to being able to get going with Gentoo on their own, but have one or two showstopper problems that are easily solvable by experienced users. Maybe even some sort of level 1 helpdesk concept. A mailing list works only if you have internet connectivity and email both functioning. -- Walter Dnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
Does Alice really consitute a girlfriend? ;^p -Original Message- From: Paul Kain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 3:20 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges no gui, all command line, hardc0re girlfriend... not really but damn I wish... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
On Wednesday 03 August 2005 06:20 pm, Ryan Viljoen wrote: [quote] Let the world know that you run on Gentoo Linux. Put a Powered by Gentoo image on your Gentoo powered web sites or use a Gentoo Badge on your web page, blog, forum signature or elsewhere and link back to http://www.gentoo.org - help us spread the word! Tell others how happy you are with Gentoo Linux. [/quote] http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/graphics.xml Are you nuts? There are already floods of n00bs trying out Gentoo that haven't ever even used Linux. If we all did what you suggest we'd have even more showing up, logging on the irc using superuser root and asking stupid questions thats covered in the install guide. -- Chris Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 08:39:18 up 1 day, 13:46, 6 users, load average: 0.25, 0.16, 0.18 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
Yeah so you just skipped n00b status? You never asked a stupid question? No I thought not. Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow... *sigh* On 8/4/05, Chris Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 03 August 2005 06:20 pm, Ryan Viljoen wrote: [quote] Let the world know that you run on Gentoo Linux. Put a Powered by Gentoo image on your Gentoo powered web sites or use a Gentoo Badge on your web page, blog, forum signature or elsewhere and link back to http://www.gentoo.org - help us spread the word! Tell others how happy you are with Gentoo Linux. [/quote] http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/graphics.xml Are you nuts? There are already floods of n00bs trying out Gentoo that haven't ever even used Linux. If we all did what you suggest we'd have even more showing up, logging on the irc using superuser root and asking stupid questions thats covered in the install guide. -- Chris Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 08:39:18 up 1 day, 13:46, 6 users, load average: 0.25, 0.16, 0.18 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- When you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic Voices... that's nothing - when you play it forward it installs Windows -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote: Yeah so you just skipped n00b status? You never asked a stupid question? No I thought not. Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow... *sigh* I was of course just kidding. I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right choice for everyone. Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the masses. DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux should turn to? -- Chris Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 09:00:21 up 1 day, 14:07, 6 users, load average: 0.33, 0.23, 0.19 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
Refer to the Elitest Chowderheads thread on [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 15:50 +0200, Ryan Viljoen wrote: Yeah so you just skipped n00b status? You never asked a stupid question? No I thought not. Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow... *sigh* On 8/4/05, Chris Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 03 August 2005 06:20 pm, Ryan Viljoen wrote: [quote] Let the world know that you run on Gentoo Linux. Put a Powered by Gentoo image on your Gentoo powered web sites or use a Gentoo Badge on your web page, blog, forum signature or elsewhere and link back to http://www.gentoo.org - help us spread the word! Tell others how happy you are with Gentoo Linux. [/quote] http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/graphics.xml Are you nuts? There are already floods of n00bs trying out Gentoo that haven't ever even used Linux. If we all did what you suggest we'd have even more showing up, logging on the irc using superuser root and asking stupid questions thats covered in the install guide. -- Chris Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 08:39:18 up 1 day, 13:46, 6 users, load average: 0.25, 0.16, 0.18 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- When you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic Voices... that's nothing - when you play it forward it installs Windows -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 09:03 -0500, Chris Cox wrote: On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote: Yeah so you just skipped n00b status? You never asked a stupid question? No I thought not. Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow... *sigh* I was of course just kidding. I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right choice for everyone. Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the masses. DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux should turn to? -- Chris Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 09:00:21 up 1 day, 14:07, 6 users, load average: 0.33, 0.23, 0.19 My first Linux was Red Hat 8.0. I then went to RH 9.0 and Fedora Core 1. I for one would not recommend Gentoo to a person who has never used Linux before. I certainly wouldn't have understood it. Think of it as a test of the strong: Newbies might choose Gentoo and run into all kinds of problems and ask stupid questions. Most will get frustrated and either leave Linux altogether or seek out a more user-friendly distrobution. The ones who stick around are the ones worth adding to the community. When I first came to Gentoo I asked a lot of stupid questions (still do) and I get frustrated with it sometimes but I know that this is what I want and so I'll stick with it. The newbies like that will stick around and they will ask stupid questions and learn from those stupid questions and you will not be able to get rid of them no matter how hard you try. Linux is not for the faint of heart (that's what MSWindows is for.) If someone wants to learn Linux (Gentoo) and stick to it then they are worthy of our time... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
Agreed in all terms!!! On 8/4/05, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 09:03 -0500, Chris Cox wrote: On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote: Yeah so you just skipped n00b status? You never asked a stupid question? No I thought not. Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow... *sigh* I was of course just kidding. I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right choice for everyone. Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the masses. DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux should turn to? -- Chris Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 09:00:21 up 1 day, 14:07, 6 users, load average: 0.33, 0.23, 0.19 My first Linux was Red Hat 8.0. I then went to RH 9.0 and Fedora Core 1. I for one would not recommend Gentoo to a person who has never used Linux before. I certainly wouldn't have understood it. Think of it as a test of the strong: Newbies might choose Gentoo and run into all kinds of problems and ask stupid questions. Most will get frustrated and either leave Linux altogether or seek out a more user-friendly distrobution. The ones who stick around are the ones worth adding to the community. When I first came to Gentoo I asked a lot of stupid questions (still do) and I get frustrated with it sometimes but I know that this is what I want and so I'll stick with it. The newbies like that will stick around and they will ask stupid questions and learn from those stupid questions and you will not be able to get rid of them no matter how hard you try. Linux is not for the faint of heart (that's what MSWindows is for.) If someone wants to learn Linux (Gentoo) and stick to it then they are worthy of our time... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Daniel da Veiga Computer Operator - RS - Brazil -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V- PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
Gentoo was my first serious distribution, I first tried Red Hat and got completely put off. I was than introduced to Gentoo and have been there ever since. Putting a Gentoo Badge in your sig or on your forum will attract both n00bs yes and other linux users alike. Does it really mean that the end of the world? Each to their own I guess. On 8/4/05, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 09:03 -0500, Chris Cox wrote: On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote: Yeah so you just skipped n00b status? You never asked a stupid question? No I thought not. Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow... *sigh* I was of course just kidding. I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right choice for everyone. Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the masses. DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux should turn to? -- Chris Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 09:00:21 up 1 day, 14:07, 6 users, load average: 0.33, 0.23, 0.19 My first Linux was Red Hat 8.0. I then went to RH 9.0 and Fedora Core 1. I for one would not recommend Gentoo to a person who has never used Linux before. I certainly wouldn't have understood it. Think of it as a test of the strong: Newbies might choose Gentoo and run into all kinds of problems and ask stupid questions. Most will get frustrated and either leave Linux altogether or seek out a more user-friendly distrobution. The ones who stick around are the ones worth adding to the community. When I first came to Gentoo I asked a lot of stupid questions (still do) and I get frustrated with it sometimes but I know that this is what I want and so I'll stick with it. The newbies like that will stick around and they will ask stupid questions and learn from those stupid questions and you will not be able to get rid of them no matter how hard you try. Linux is not for the faint of heart (that's what MSWindows is for.) If someone wants to learn Linux (Gentoo) and stick to it then they are worthy of our time... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- When you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic Voices... that's nothing - when you play it forward it installs Windows -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
At the expense of sounding like an Elitist Chowderhead I kind of agree with Chris. I'm fairly new to Gentoo (but not to Linux). I came from Fedora and must say that personally Gentoo makes way more sense and pisses me off far less than any RedHat distro. But that said I would never recommend Gentoo to a noob unless they where just as geeky as I. I would rather see normal people use distros like Mandriva and Linspire then graduate to Gentoo when and if they are ready than to have them start at Gentoo then get pissed off at their own inability to make the thing work and go back to Windoze. Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth. -MikeOn 8/4/05, Daniel da Veiga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed in all terms!!!On 8/4/05, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 09:03 -0500, Chris Cox wrote: On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote: Yeah so you just skipped n00b status? You never asked a stupid question? No I thought not. Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow... *sigh* I was of course just kidding.I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right choice for everyone.Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the masses. DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux should turn to? -- Chris Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 09:00:21 up 1 day, 14:07,6 users,load average: 0.33, 0.23, 0.19 My first Linux was Red Hat 8.0.I then went to RH 9.0 and Fedora Core 1.I for one would not recommend Gentoo to a person who has never used Linux before.I certainly wouldn't have understood it.Think of it as a test of the strong:Newbies might choose Gentoo and run into all kinds of problems and ask stupid questions.Most will get frustrated and either leave Linux altogether or seek out a more user-friendly distrobution.The ones who stick around are the ones worth adding to the community.When I first came to Gentoo I asked a lot of stupid questions (still do) and I get frustrated with it sometimes but I know that this is what I want and so I'll stick with it.The newbies like that will stick around and they will ask stupid questions and learn from those stupid questions and you will not be able to get rid of them no matter how hard you try.Linux is not for the faint of heart (that's what MSWindows is for.)If someone wants to learn Linux (Gentoo) and stick to it then they are worthy of our time... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list--Daniel da VeigaComputer Operator - RS - Brazil-BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-Version: 3.1GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V- PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++--END GEEK CODE BLOCKgentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Michael E. CruteSoftware DeveloperSoftGroup Development CorporationIn a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
On Thu, Aug 04, 2005 at 10:50:17AM -0400, Michael Crute wrote: At the expense of sounding like an Elitist Chowderhead I kind of agree with Chris. I'm fairly new to Gentoo (but not to Linux). I came from Fedora and must say that personally Gentoo makes way more sense and pisses me off far less than any RedHat distro. But that said I would never recommend Gentoo to a noob unless they where just as geeky as I. I would rather see normal people use distros like Mandriva and Linspire then graduate to Gentoo when and if they are ready than to have them start at Gentoo then get pissed off at their own inability to make the thing work and go back to Windoze. Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth. -Mike I disagree. I think we should pit people first against OpenBSD, then FreeBSD, then Gentoo Linux, then Debian, then SuSE, then Fedora/Mandrake... which ever one they manage to install on the first try (of course, following a manual) should be they one they start from. Of course, a sadistic bastard like myself (and since I am speaking from experience, probably also masochistic) should have no say in this matters. q= I kid of course. I have had at least UserLand experience with RedHat and Solaris before I installed a *nix system on my own computer. With a manual in hand, even the BSDs were quite easy to set up. Unfortunately a BIOS bug in my IBM Thinkpad means that openbsd killed it for good (or at least until a complete system wipe). But seriously, I don't see really problems with n00bs using Gentoo as a starter distro, so long as the said n00bs knows the power of google... Best, W -- Once you've seen one shopping center you've seen a mall. Sortir en Pantoufles: up 3 days, 23:45 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
The facts are: - Internet is powerful. - Gentoo and internet talk like friends. - If you can read and surf the web, you can use almost any program with a fair documentation and bit of geekness. - Gentoo is widely documented. - There's always us to point newbies to RTFM and/or search at Google :) at the second mail they'll think better and search twice before asking another question and try everything before asking us again. In no time, you'll get a power user answering questions instead of asking. That's evolution baby! On 8/4/05, Willie Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Aug 04, 2005 at 10:50:17AM -0400, Michael Crute wrote: At the expense of sounding like an Elitist Chowderhead I kind of agree with Chris. I'm fairly new to Gentoo (but not to Linux). I came from Fedora and must say that personally Gentoo makes way more sense and pisses me off far less than any RedHat distro. But that said I would never recommend Gentoo to a noob unless they where just as geeky as I. I would rather see normal people use distros like Mandriva and Linspire then graduate to Gentoo when and if they are ready than to have them start at Gentoo then get pissed off at their own inability to make the thing work and go back to Windoze. Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth. -Mike I disagree. I think we should pit people first against OpenBSD, then FreeBSD, then Gentoo Linux, then Debian, then SuSE, then Fedora/Mandrake... which ever one they manage to install on the first try (of course, following a manual) should be they one they start from. Of course, a sadistic bastard like myself (and since I am speaking from experience, probably also masochistic) should have no say in this matters. q= I kid of course. I have had at least UserLand experience with RedHat and Solaris before I installed a *nix system on my own computer. With a manual in hand, even the BSDs were quite easy to set up. Unfortunately a BIOS bug in my IBM Thinkpad means that openbsd killed it for good (or at least until a complete system wipe). But seriously, I don't see really problems with n00bs using Gentoo as a starter distro, so long as the said n00bs knows the power of google... Best, W -- Once you've seen one shopping center you've seen a mall. Sortir en Pantoufles: up 3 days, 23:45 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Daniel da Veiga Computer Operator - RS - Brazil -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V- PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
I put Gentoo on my mom's computer. I got tired of her asking me questions about her computer concerning the Windows OS, so I installed an OS *I* could help her maintain, and not feel disgusted with. Just wanted to share that... Has anyone else out there put Gentoo on their parents computers? -bryan Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 10:50:17 -0400 From: Michael Crute [EMAIL PROTECTED] At the expense of sounding like an Elitist Chowderhead I kind of agree=20 with Chris. I'm fairly new to Gentoo (but not to Linux). I came from Fedora= =20 and must say that personally Gentoo makes way more sense and pisses me off= =20 far less than any RedHat distro. But that said I would never recommend=20 Gentoo to a noob unless they where just as geeky as I. I would rather see= =20 normal people use distros like Mandriva and Linspire then graduate to Gento= o=20 when and if they are ready than to have them start at Gentoo then get pisse= d=20 off at their own inability to make the thing work and go back to Windoze.= =20 Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth. -Mike -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
050804 Chris Cox wrote: On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen sighed: Yeah so you just skipped n00b status? You never asked a stupid question? No I thought not. Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow... I was of course just kidding. I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right choice for everyone. Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cater to the masses. DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux should turn to? It's not whether they're new to Linux, but whether they're new to system administration. A good sysadmin who's known only Solaris or even M$ should be able to install Gentoo quickly make it useful; grannie, who's been using the Mandriva Linux her grandson installed for her, should be very kindly encouraged to go back to his personal support. Gentoo is for people who want to manage their own machine in their own way the real bouncer at the door is the DIY installation test. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Centre for Urban Community Studies TRANSIT`-O--O---' University of Toronto -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 10:22 -0700, Bryan Green wrote: I put Gentoo on my mom's computer. I got tired of her asking me questions about her computer concerning the Windows OS, so I installed an OS *I* could help her maintain, and not feel disgusted with. Just wanted to share that... Has anyone else out there put Gentoo on their parents computers? -bryan I just bought my parents a new computer and am going to put gentoo on it and vmware with windows for the occasion where they really do need windows. I can fix their problems better with linux, and my mom and sister like to browse all kinds of crappy websites and end up with spyware all over the place with windows. I would reccommend gentoo to a noob any time. Once you get past the installation and get gnome running, anyone can use it. I also think that it is easier to install new software with gentoo than with other distros. One of my friends who doesnt know sh!t about computers installed fedora, and almost every day he needs help figuring out how to install some program. I wish I had told him to go with gentoo, because then he could just emerge pretty much anything he needs. The people who would be confused with more advanced configuration/administration/whatever are the same people who probably dont need to do any of that stuff. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
Chris Cox wrote: On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote: Yeah so you just skipped n00b status? You never asked a stupid question? No I thought not. Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow... *sigh* I was of course just kidding. I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right choice for everyone. Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the masses. DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux should turn to? In one word... YES!. If you're going to learn your way around Linux well, why not start with something that doesn't teach you rely on GUIs and crap like that. When it all goes south, you're left iwth a command line. I guess I'm from the school that started wtih computer back where there was no GUI. The closest thing I had to a GUI was an ncurses like system, that really didn't work all that well. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
Daniel da Veiga wrote: The facts are: - Internet is powerful. - Gentoo and internet talk like friends. - If you can read and surf the web, you can use almost any program with a fair documentation and bit of geekness. - Gentoo is widely documented. - There's always us to point newbies to RTFM and/or search at Google :) at the second mail they'll think better and search twice before asking another question and try everything before asking us again. In no time, you'll get a power user answering questions instead of asking. That's evolution baby! On 8/4/05, Willie Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Aug 04, 2005 at 10:50:17AM -0400, Michael Crute wrote: At the expense of sounding like an Elitist Chowderhead I kind of agree with Chris. I'm fairly new to Gentoo (but not to Linux). I came from Fedora and must say that personally Gentoo makes way more sense and pisses me off far less than any RedHat distro. But that said I would never recommend Gentoo to a noob unless they where just as geeky as I. I would rather see normal people use distros like Mandriva and Linspire then graduate to Gentoo when and if they are ready than to have them start at Gentoo then get pissed off at their own inability to make the thing work and go back to Windoze. Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth. -Mike I disagree. I think we should pit people first against OpenBSD, then FreeBSD, then Gentoo Linux, then Debian, then SuSE, then Fedora/Mandrake... which ever one they manage to install on the first try (of course, following a manual) should be they one they start from. Of course, a sadistic bastard like myself (and since I am speaking from experience, probably also masochistic) should have no say in this matters. q= I kid of course. I have had at least UserLand experience with RedHat and Solaris before I installed a *nix system on my own computer. With a manual in hand, even the BSDs were quite easy to set up. Unfortunately a BIOS bug in my IBM Thinkpad means that openbsd killed it for good (or at least until a complete system wipe). But seriously, I don't see really problems with n00bs using Gentoo as a starter distro, so long as the said n00bs knows the power of google... Best, W -- Once you've seen one shopping center you've seen a mall. Sortir en Pantoufles: up 3 days, 23:45 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list I agree 100%. Does any other distro have better forums and/or mailing lists? I think not. So many times I emerge -uD world and have something break. But guess what? The answer is only the Gentoo Forum away, cause some poor rascal or rascalette has had the same problem and usually has the solution. Gentooists Untie! er Unite -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
Philip Webb wrote: Gentoo is for people who want to manage their own machine in their own way the real bouncer at the door is the DIY installation test. This thread is a bit more rational, so no Elitist Chowderhead subject this time. However... Does this mean now that I've been admining *nix for 9+ years and multiple Gentoo boxes for 3+ years that my decoder ring is in the mail? You know the one that gives me access to the auto installer where I edit a page of text around midnight, run the script/push the button, and wake up to a fresh Gentoo system? Or maybe it'll give me access to a catalyst tool (though I haven't tried out the latest one) that doesn't require virgin sacrifices to make me a fat and happy stage4 install? Gentoo might not be for everyone, but I don't see any point in making getting started any harder than it needs to be. It's not like any Linux system is complete nirvana once you start admining it. I'd rather users leave Gentoo because they don't like/need/want portage than never trying it because the install was or seemed onerous. As for newbie questions, a simpler install is as likely to decrease overall questions as it is to increase them IMO. kashani -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
The original point of this was to promote Gentoo. You guys and gals are all so proud of it but want to keep it to yourselves. When a mate asks me what OS I am running I say Gentoo Linux. If he or she wants a copy I gladly give it to them and help them out cause someone awhile back took the time to answer my noob questions. If he or she doesnt have such great knowledge of computers than yeah I hand them a Ubuntu Linux CD, no harm done. The fact remains, why not be proud of Gentoo, I fail to see what is so bad about putting a small 80x15 or 80x50 image either in your signiture our on your site? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
Yeah, I think its great! I would buy the t-shirts if I wasn't so far away! Once you get it well configured, its nice, its fast, its Gentoo!!! I've been migrating a lot of users after showing my own box to them, and most say the same, Gentoo is a learning experience, people start installing it and end up knowing a LOT about Linux. I don't mind answering noob questions, even if the answer would be a RTFM or point them to a web search, as long as people use it, have fun and learn with it. Most of them will come back and their experiences will help others. Add the fact that the most different hardware/software combinations we get, the most people will have an answer when asking the list, because someone out there had some similar issue long ago and fixed it somehow. On 8/4/05, Ryan Viljoen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The original point of this was to promote Gentoo. You guys and gals are all so proud of it but want to keep it to yourselves. When a mate asks me what OS I am running I say Gentoo Linux. If he or she wants a copy I gladly give it to them and help them out cause someone awhile back took the time to answer my noob questions. If he or she doesnt have such great knowledge of computers than yeah I hand them a Ubuntu Linux CD, no harm done. The fact remains, why not be proud of Gentoo, I fail to see what is so bad about putting a small 80x15 or 80x50 image either in your signiture our on your site? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Daniel da Veiga Computer Operator - RS - Brazil -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V- PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
nice signature Ryan http://chill.vault9.net/forums/Ravilj-m2166.html email me that image please? thanks :D On 8/4/05, Ryan Viljoen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The original point of this was to promote Gentoo. You guys and gals are all so proud of it but want to keep it to yourselves. When a mate asks me what OS I am running I say Gentoo Linux. If he or she wants a copy I gladly give it to them and help them out cause someone awhile back took the time to answer my noob questions. If he or she doesnt have such great knowledge of computers than yeah I hand them a Ubuntu Linux CD, no harm done. The fact remains, why not be proud of Gentoo, I fail to see what is so bad about putting a small 80x15 or 80x50 image either in your signiture our on your site? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
Craig Zeigler wrote: Chris Cox wrote: On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote: Yeah so you just skipped n00b status? You never asked a stupid question? No I thought not. Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow... *sigh* I was of course just kidding. I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right choice for everyone. Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the masses. DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux should turn to? In one word... YES!. If you're going to learn your way around Linux well, why not start with something that doesn't teach you rely on GUIs and crap like that. When it all goes south, you're left iwth a command line. I guess I'm from the school that started wtih computer back where there was no GUI. The closest thing I had to a GUI was an ncurses like system, that really didn't work all that well. I agree with Craig. But in a broader sense, if anybody is to learn their way around a computer, start them out by building their own computer. Start them out with a box of parts and an install cd. Give them diagram how the parts go and a Phillips head screwdriver (less tools required than assembling a swing set). Teach them fear not the black screen with the white letters. Watch their joy as the learn that their new born computer can now stand on it's own by installing the base layout. Hear them brag that their child can walk because it has learned X windows server. Suffer through the screen shots once it has grown to a full desktop. Never more will these persons quiver at the very thought of tearing the sacred plastic that contains the mystical restore cd. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
My girlfriend, who has never used windows properley before, let alone linux, uses my server to irc with using irssi no gui, all command line, hardc0re girlfriend... not really but damn I wish... On 8/4/05, Bryan Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put Gentoo on my mom's computer. I got tired of her asking me questions about her computer concerning the Windows OS, so I installed an OS *I* could help her maintain, and not feel disgusted with. Just wanted to share that... Has anyone else out there put Gentoo on their parents computers? -bryan Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 10:50:17 -0400 From: Michael Crute [EMAIL PROTECTED] At the expense of sounding like an Elitist Chowderhead I kind of agree=20 with Chris. I'm fairly new to Gentoo (but not to Linux). I came from Fedora= =20 and must say that personally Gentoo makes way more sense and pisses me off= =20 far less than any RedHat distro. But that said I would never recommend=20 Gentoo to a noob unless they where just as geeky as I. I would rather see= =20 normal people use distros like Mandriva and Linspire then graduate to Gento= o=20 when and if they are ready than to have them start at Gentoo then get pisse= d=20 off at their own inability to make the thing work and go back to Windoze.= =20 Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth. -Mike -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 13:53:38 -0400 Craig Zeigler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to | Linux should turn to? | | | In one word... YES!. If you're going to learn your way around Linux | well, why not start with something that doesn't teach you rely on GUIs | and crap like that. If you're going to learn Linux, why not start with a distribution which caters for newbies when making design decisions, rather than one which assumes that its users know what they're doing? -- Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron) Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm pgpw2SB3Xo5Md.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
[quote] Let the world know that you run on Gentoo Linux. Put a Powered by Gentoo image on your Gentoo powered web sites or use a Gentoo Badge on your web page, blog, forum signature or elsewhere and link back to http://www.gentoo.org - help us spread the word! Tell others how happy you are with Gentoo Linux. [/quote] http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/graphics.xml -- When you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic Voices... that's nothing - when you play it forward it installs Windows -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
