Re: [gentoo-user] Get off my lawn?
Am 17.01.2015 um 00:25 schrieb Paul B. Henson: http://www.linuxvoice.com/interview-lennart-poettering/ So it seems the reason (in Lennart Poettering's imagination at least) that Gentoo hasn't embraced systemd as our default init system is because we're all old and conservative? Not like those young Arch Linux He should just move on and accept the fact that not everybody likes his new, shiney toys.
Re: [gentoo-user] Get off my lawn?
On 01/16/2015 03:25 PM, Paul B. Henson wrote: http://www.linuxvoice.com/interview-lennart-poettering/ I find it amusing that in the second question he laments on how Upstart was a pain in the ass to deal with because Canonical made it difficult to contribute code. I recall not too long ago they weren't exactly helpful while acknowledging a couple of serious bugs. Even Linus at one point said to straighten up or we won't accept commits from them. :-) Dan
Re: [gentoo-user] Get off my lawn?
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 19:40:57 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote: He isn't the first to make that observation. Many have pointed out that the testing branch today seems a lot like stable Gentoo used to be, and that we err too much on the side of not making big changes. However, I'm not sure that we really are afraid of breaking things so much that many of us have just grown comfortable with the way things have been done. Also, in openrc Gentoo has an init system that is superior to those used by other distros pre-systemd. Openrc has some of the benefits that systemd offers other distros, like dependencies, so there is somewhat less incentive to change. Having said that, Gentoo does have systemd, it's just not switched on in the default profiles. I think your point, which you have made before, about init eventually being treated like the kernel, cron or system logger, is a good one and could be said to represent the True Gentoo Way[tm]. -- Neil Bothwick Hospitality: making your guests feel like they're at home, even if you wish they were. pgp2JpUlyNH1h.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Get off my lawn?
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 4:09 AM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 19:40:57 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote: He isn't the first to make that observation. Many have pointed out that the testing branch today seems a lot like stable Gentoo used to be, and that we err too much on the side of not making big changes. However, I'm not sure that we really are afraid of breaking things so much that many of us have just grown comfortable with the way things have been done. Also, in openrc Gentoo has an init system that is superior to those used by other distros pre-systemd. Openrc has some of the benefits that systemd offers other distros, like dependencies, so there is somewhat less incentive to change. I definitely agree here. We actually went through an rc change when we deployed openrc, and it worked fine. There were bugs not unlike what some run into with systemd - anytime you replace something old with something new you get regressions. We also really too our time with the switchover, which is something most distros don't seem to be doing with systemd (to their users's detriment - I think burning bridges gets encouraged by the politics to prevent backtracking). I think it took years between the ~arch and stable dates for baselayout-2 on Gentoo. -- Rich
[gentoo-user] Get off my lawn?
http://www.linuxvoice.com/interview-lennart-poettering/ So it seems the reason (in Lennart Poettering's imagination at least) that Gentoo hasn't embraced systemd as our default init system is because we're all old and conservative? Not like those young Arch Linux power user whippersnappers who are much more progressive and have such a greater interest in making the best out of their computers. Bleh.
Re: [gentoo-user] Get off my lawn?
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Paul B. Henson hen...@acm.org wrote: http://www.linuxvoice.com/interview-lennart-poettering/ So it seems the reason (in Lennart Poettering's imagination at least) that Gentoo hasn't embraced systemd as our default init system is because we're all old and conservative? He isn't the first to make that observation. Many have pointed out that the testing branch today seems a lot like stable Gentoo used to be, and that we err too much on the side of not making big changes. However, I'm not sure that we really are afraid of breaking things so much that many of us have just grown comfortable with the way things have been done. I suspect that eventually we'll get to a point where the stage3s don't contain init, just as they don't contain a kernel. Besides, who wants all those files clogging up their drives when all they want is a chroot? :) Whatever, I could really care less what Lennart thinks of Gentoo, or how you feel about Lennart. It isn't like another systemd flamewar is going to change anything. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Get off my lawn?
On 01/16/2015 07:40 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: I suspect that eventually we'll get to a point where the stage3s don't contain init, just as they don't contain a kernel. Besides, who wants all those files clogging up their drives when all they want is a chroot? :) I can't remember who said it, but I was recently told that the only reason openrc was in the @system set was due to a couple of bugs that are currently being worked on. Whatever, I could really care less what Lennart thinks of Gentoo, or how you feel about Lennart. It isn't like another systemd flamewar is going to change anything. Agreed. Maybe we need a gentoo-flamewars list ;) Alec
RE: [gentoo-user] Get off my lawn?
From: Rich Freeman Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 4:41 PM I suspect that eventually we'll get to a point where the stage3s don't contain init, just as they don't contain a kernel. Besides, who wants all those files clogging up their drives when all they want is a chroot? :) I've got no issue with that, Gentoo is all about choice :). What is going to make me really unhappy is if/when the assimilation campaign by systemd makes supporting init system options difficult or impossible 8-/.
Re: [gentoo-user] Get off my lawn?
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 8:35 PM, Paul B. Henson hen...@acm.org wrote: From: Rich Freeman Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 4:41 PM I suspect that eventually we'll get to a point where the stage3s don't contain init, just as they don't contain a kernel. Besides, who wants all those files clogging up their drives when all they want is a chroot? :) I've got no issue with that, Gentoo is all about choice :). What is going to make me really unhappy is if/when the assimilation campaign by systemd makes supporting init system options difficult or impossible 8-/. From [1]: 'After nearly 12 years working on Gentoo and hearing blathering about how “Gentoo is about choice” and “Gentoo is a metadistribution,” I’ve come to a conclusion to where we need to go if we want to remain viable as a Linux distribution.' 'If we want to have any relevance, we need to have focus. Everything for everybody is a guarantee that you’ll be nothing for nobody.' This idea (the one that Gentoo is, or should be, about choice) is one which not all users (like myself), nor developers (like, apparently, dberkholz) agree on. In particular, and for what it matters, I've always said that Gentoo (and Linux) is about choice, as long as there is someone willing and able to provide the choice. Just my 0.02 cents. Regards. [1] http://dberkholz.com/2015/01/13/gentoo-needs-focus-to-stay-relevant/ -- Canek Peláez Valdés Profesor de asignatura, Facultad de Ciencias Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
