Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
120911 Walter Dnes wrote: I realize -* requires extra work, and I'm willing to do it. That includes finding solutions to obscure problems. I've been using '-*' to begin the list of flags in make.conf forever; I do have a list of the flags I've en/disabled why. The only time I've been ambushed was this week on a new machine, when the devs changed the status of 'cxx' for Gcc-4.5.4 without a news item; it was fairly straightforward, if time-consuming, to fix the problem. I do try to notice when 'emerge -pv' marks a change of flag. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 12:00:15PM +0200, Penguin Lover Alan McKinnon squawked: Or, when previewing what emerge world wants to do, note that a new flag is enabled, remove it yourself and let emerge world proceed when you are happy with it. s/remove/add and your advice works equally well for us -*'ers :-) W
Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 08:41:36AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:42:45 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do you have USE=-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you. Yup. I did that to avoid further surprises after the developers in their infinite wisdom had IPV6 enabled by default on all reasonable profiles. Watching Firefox and mplayer spinning their wheels for 45 seconds at a time till IPV6 lookups timed out was not fun. I'd rather have that that an unusable shell. As was noted elsewhere this weekend, even if a USE flag is set but renamed, -* screws it up. So no matter what I do or don't do, a developer can find a way to screw me up. Next thing you know, I'll have to re-partition my system or else replace udev with mdev, to boot up... oops. I do get the occasional message about... foo requires bar to be built with USE flag oogabooga when running emerge. I can handle that. Sometimes I even uncover an obscure ebuild bug, e.g. https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=401651 -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
Am Montag, 10. September 2012, 15:19:38 schrieb Walter Dnes: On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 08:41:36AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:42:45 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do you have USE=-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you. Yup. I did that to avoid further surprises after the developers in their infinite wisdom had IPV6 enabled by default on all reasonable profiles. Watching Firefox and mplayer spinning their wheels for 45 seconds at a time till IPV6 lookups timed out was not fun. I'd rather have that that an unusable shell. As was noted elsewhere this weekend, even if a USE flag is set but renamed, -* screws it up. So no matter what I do or don't do, a developer can find a way to screw me up. Next thing you know, I'll have to re-partition my system or else replace udev with mdev, to boot up... oops. wtf are you talking about? Just because you are unable to look at changed useflags when glancing over the output of emerge -a is not an excuse for using something idiotic like -*. Doing so and then complaining is just vile. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:07:08 +0200 Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Montag, 10. September 2012, 15:19:38 schrieb Walter Dnes: On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 08:41:36AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:42:45 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do you have USE=-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you. Yup. I did that to avoid further surprises after the developers in their infinite wisdom had IPV6 enabled by default on all reasonable profiles. Watching Firefox and mplayer spinning their wheels for 45 seconds at a time till IPV6 lookups timed out was not fun. I'd rather have that that an unusable shell. As was noted elsewhere this weekend, even if a USE flag is set but renamed, -* screws it up. So no matter what I do or don't do, a developer can find a way to screw me up. Next thing you know, I'll have to re-partition my system or else replace udev with mdev, to boot up... oops. wtf are you talking about? Just because you are unable to look at changed useflags when glancing over the output of emerge -a is not an excuse for using something idiotic like -*. Doing so and then complaining is just vile. He seems to have reacted badly to a singular bad experience with a dodgy ebuild. It's a classic case of seeing the one occasion where something went wrong and not see the 999 cases where it didn't. Then truing to deal with the 1 for the future just in case I get a similar kind of thing often at work. Someone makes a mistake and a chunk of the network goes down. The next day I might get a draconian mail from some manager demanding that vast sweeping changes to login rules be implemented just in case this ever happens again. Lucky for the company I have some cajones and just say no. Then I investigate and 3 times out of 4 I find the broken router is running some weird version of Cisco IOS which does something completely unexpected with a perfectly ordinary command. The other 1 time I always find a bat-shit crazy business customization that no sane engineer would ever have signed off on. The solution is never to try change the behaviour of all the humans. The solution is to change the behaviour of the one faulty machine when it breaks, and have many smart humans around with brains that can spot the busted machine quickly. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:19:38 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: I'd rather have that that an unusable shell. As was noted elsewhere this weekend, even if a USE flag is set but renamed, -* screws it up. So no matter what I do or don't do, a developer can find a way to screw me up. Yes, but since the devs know far more about the workings of the system and the interrelationships of its components than I do, I prefer to work with them than against them. I prefer to start with a known, working profile and tweak it. Rather than deliberately break everything and then apply my own fixes just to avoid the odd chance anyone else accidentally breaking it for me. -- Neil Bothwick .-Stealth Tagline signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
On Sep 11, 2012 5:58 AM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:19:38 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: I'd rather have that that an unusable shell. As was noted elsewhere this weekend, even if a USE flag is set but renamed, -* screws it up. So no matter what I do or don't do, a developer can find a way to screw me up. Yes, but since the devs know far more about the workings of the system and the interrelationships of its components than I do, I prefer to work with them than against them. I prefer to start with a known, working profile and tweak it. Rather than deliberately break everything and then apply my own fixes just to avoid the odd chance anyone else accidentally breaking it for me. +1 to this. In my previous employment, I used Gentoo in production environment. There's a gaggle of USE flags in make.conf, mostly of the - variety. But I stay clear of -* ... that thing's too eeevil for me... :-) Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 10:15:47AM +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote But I stay clear of -* ... that thing's too eeevil for me... :-) I realize -* requires extra work, and I'm willing to do it. That includes finding solutions to obscure problems. Maybe it's because I'm a control freak. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:42:45 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do you have USE=-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you. Yup. I did that to avoid further surprises after the developers in their infinite wisdom had IPV6 enabled by default on all reasonable profiles. Watching Firefox and mplayer spinning their wheels for 45 seconds at a time till IPV6 lookups timed out was not fun. I'd rather have that that an unusable shell. As was noted elsewhere this weekend, even if a USE flag is set but renamed, -* screws it up. BTW that delay was typically caused by buggy/obsolete router firmware failing to handled IPv6 requests, but should not be an issue on a fully non-IPv6 system as it needs a kernel with IPv6 enabled to make any difference. Still, it was not a good move, but I don't agree that risking further breakage is the best response to one less than optimal decision by the devs. -- Neil Bothwick I typed Format SER: and accidentally killed a telephone operator! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:42:45 -0400 Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 09:07:02AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do you have USE=-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you. Yup. I did that to avoid further surprises after the developers in their infinite wisdom had IPV6 enabled by default on all reasonable profiles. Watching Firefox and mplayer spinning their wheels for 45 seconds at a time till IPV6 lookups timed out was not fun. Looks to me like you added in a huge problem to fix a minor one. Yes, the devs will occasionally make a mistake. This is rare but it does happen because bugs happen. In a case like this just add -ipv6 to USE and things go back to what they were. Or, when previewing what emerge world wants to do, note that a new flag is enabled, remove it yourself and let emerge world proceed when you are happy with it. But now you have to do all that heavy lifting yourself, every single time you want to emerge anything. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:41:28 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: I updated world yesterday, and discovered that bash functionality was severly degraded on my machine. No up-arrow to scroll through history, no tab-completion, etc, etc. A bit of Google searching turned up the fact that bash no-longer uses an internal readline library, but now depends on the readline USE flag for this functionality. If you don't have readline globally enabled set... Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do you have USE=-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you. -- Neil Bothwick Last words of a Windows user: = Where do I have to click now? - There? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 09:07:02AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do you have USE=-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you. Yup. I did that to avoid further surprises after the developers in their infinite wisdom had IPV6 enabled by default on all reasonable profiles. Watching Firefox and mplayer spinning their wheels for 45 seconds at a time till IPV6 lookups timed out was not fun. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
[gentoo-user] Heads-up; bash now uses readline USE flag
I updated world yesterday, and discovered that bash functionality was severly degraded on my machine. No up-arrow to scroll through history, no tab-completion, etc, etc. A bit of Google searching turned up the fact that bash no-longer uses an internal readline library, but now depends on the readline USE flag for this functionality. If you don't have readline globally enabled set... app-shells/bash readline ...in package.use. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
