Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I have a better question. Why is a 82 year old woman using Gentoo? If she installed Gentoo, updated Gentoo then she must be able to do something with Gentoo, right? Dale Sorry for this Dale, but if this list gets to the end of the year and finds a less well thought out question than the one you just asked then I'll be surprised. Unfortunately I won't be here to read it if it comes along. To answer your question Dale, that 82 year old woman uses Gentoo because it's what I put on her laptop. It's the perfect OS for someone who does limited web browsing browser-based email. (GMail/Hotmail) With that I bid this list goodbye. I made it almost 10 years on the list, and have run Gentoo almost exclusively for longer than that. Yeah, I've loaded and tried other distros along the way, Fedora, Funtoo are the two I remember, but none have compared. This list has helped me to no end and I thank everyone for that. Should anyone want to get in touch please do. (FirstLast@gmail) Cheers goodbye, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
Mark Knecht wrote: On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I have a better question. Why is a 82 year old woman using Gentoo? If she installed Gentoo, updated Gentoo then she must be able to do something with Gentoo, right? Dale Sorry for this Dale, but if this list gets to the end of the year and finds a less well thought out question than the one you just asked then I'll be surprised. Unfortunately I won't be here to read it if it comes along. To answer your question Dale, that 82 year old woman uses Gentoo because it's what I put on her laptop. It's the perfect OS for someone who does limited web browsing browser-based email. (GMail/Hotmail) With that I bid this list goodbye. I made it almost 10 years on the list, and have run Gentoo almost exclusively for longer than that. Yeah, I've loaded and tried other distros along the way, Fedora, Funtoo are the two I remember, but none have compared. This list has helped me to no end and I thank everyone for that. Should anyone want to get in touch please do. (FirstLast@gmail) Cheers goodbye, Mark But she doesn't do the updates, you do. Why is she worried about breaking something when I would hope you would test things to make sure it works. If my Mom were to start using a computer, she's about to be 80, she would not be doing any updates or anything. I would be doing that and fixing whatever breaks in the process. The question is a good question since most people that age are not likely to be running Gentoo Linux and doing the updates themselves. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 17:05:19 -0800 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: I really don't see why I'm the one getting banged on here but that's life sometimes. I saw a problem for a couple of months. It frustrated me but not enough to do anything about it. Solving it finally bubbled up high enough on my list that I finally asked if others were having the same problem. (which they were, and which they also considered a problem) Before anyone had actually answered me I had posted one way that folks who cared could fix it. I thought I was doing the community a small service by getting a little bit of technically positive info out there. I guess not in this case. You're not getting banged on, as Michael said udev is a polarizing piece of software. Life is full of silly and not-so-silly conventions and /dev/dvd is one of them. It has no good reason to be there, and equally no good reason to not be there, but you already fixed your stuff to make it do what you want. It's not a bug should be read more as upstream is probably going to ignore you if you log a bug. In my opinion of course. Do stick around, you are up there in the list of people who make many useful posts. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
Mick wrote: On Monday 07 Jan 2013 07:35:32 Dale wrote: I think you misunderstand or I didn't make myself clear. I'm not saying it was udev that did this. I am pretty sure it was the kernel. All this happened when people with older IDE drives, myself included on my old machine, had to switch to the new drivers and devices. Before the change, old IDE drives and CD/DVD drives were given hd* devices and udev made a link to that with /dev/cdrom or dvd or whatever for optical devices which is what you seem to expect now. The reason udev did that was for it to be consistent which I have no problem with . When the kernel folks changed this, they also changed it from /dev/cdrom and /dev/dvd to /dev/sr0. From my understanding, all optical devices such as CD and DVD readers/burners are supposed to be sr0. I know k3b updated theirs too. I seem to recall I had to run a unstable version for a bit because the older version didn't have the code to see sr* devices. I never said anything was broke, just that it was changed. There was several things that was changed at about the same time that were related and this was just one of them. Another was the change from /dev/hdXX to /dev/sdXX for ALL hard drives. This change happened even if you was using the old IDE drives. As I understand it, /dev/hdxx is no longer supported on current kernels. All hard drives are /dev/sdxx and optical drives are /dev/sr0(1,2,3,4 etc). Also, I didn't remove anything. It was changed by the kernel which also lead to udev changing what it did. Again, as much as I dislike what udev is planning, I never said udev did this one. I'm pretty sure this was all started with the kernel devs. The udev folks just followed along. The biggest thing I recall is everyone with IDE drives having to update the kernel config, edit fstab and grub or lilo before rebooting. This was discussed on this list and I don't recall much fuss except for having to change it and update everything. It was sort of a one time thing and had a long term goal. All hard drives are sdxx and optical devices are srx. All this happened when I was on my old rig which was at least a few years ago. Does that make more sense now? Dale :-) :-) I think that you are conflating two issues which are separate in terms of chronology at least. Years ago we moved to libata and hdX changed to sdX. The udev confguration was updated at the time to link /dev/cd* and /dev/dvd* to srX. More recently, the udev rules nomenclature changed. The udev persistent-cd rules however was not changed. I moved it, remerged stable udev and the file was not recreated. So something in udev has changed and it no longer generates the persistent-cd rules. BTW, pressing the touch sensitive button on the laptop to eject the CD won't work, neither will typing eject in a terminal: $ eject eject: tried to use `/mnt/cdrom' as device name but it is no block device eject: unable to find or open device for: `cdrom' So, eject is still looking for cdrom ... Either all commands and legacy apps should update themselves, or I better follow Mark's suggestion? According to what I found, both changes were done at the same time. Link below is one place that I found saying both things were being changed in the kernel at the same time. There are others but anyway: http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0608.1/0806.html There may have been other changes more recent in udev but if so, I missed them since this changed for me, and according to the list others too, years ago. I was on my old rig so it had to be several years ago since I have had my new rig a couple years and never had to deal with it during the install of Gentoo on it. I do think it's helpful for some to have a consistent link like cdrom or dvd. It appears someone else thinks people that find it helpful need to add their own rule. Either way, it can be made to work. Just trying to provide info based on my search results. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Tuesday 08 Jan 2013 07:09:40 J. Roeleveld wrote: On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 22:53:19 + Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 07 Jan 2013 07:35:32 Dale wrote: BTW, pressing the touch sensitive button on the laptop to eject the CD won't work, neither will typing eject in a terminal: $ eject eject: tried to use `/mnt/cdrom' as device name but it is no block device eject: unable to find or open device for: `cdrom' So, eject is still looking for cdrom ... Either all commands and legacy apps should update themselves, or I better follow Mark's suggestion? Mick, You can tell eject which device to eject by adding the device-name to the command, eg: # eject /dev/sr0 This also works with USB-drives/sticks :) -- Joost Yes, of course, otherwise I would be rather stuck, or would have to make symlinks, or even boot into MSWindows ... just to eject a CD! -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP Life is full of silly and not-so-silly conventions and /dev/dvd is one of them. It has no good reason to be there, and equally no good reason to not be there, but you already fixed your stuff to make it do what you want. SNIP -- Alan McKinnon Alan, Maybe in the future you'll consider this story: For your entertainment, please imagine an 82 year old woman who, unknown to anyone, has somehow gone beyond simple web browsing and email and managed to teach herself to watch a DVD on her Gentoo laptop. Possibly she is hard of hearing? This works well for her as she can use headphones and listen at levels that work for her any time of day or night. Once you get your head around that picture, please imagine this user being frustrated for _months_ when her 'no good reason to be there DVD' goes away. This user feels, for no good technical reason, that she has somehow hurt her computer and worse worries about the costs of fixing it. She remains silent, doesn't ask for help and loses access to something that she enjoys all because someone in the dev community decides to 'make a change'. Not every user (of Gentoo or any other distro) lives in the rarefied world of a Linux Sys Admin, much less the far more lowly and infinitely more mundane world I inhabit. My experience is that people almost always need a little help and almost never ask. Over and out, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 12:26:04 -0800 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP Life is full of silly and not-so-silly conventions and /dev/dvd is one of them. It has no good reason to be there, and equally no good reason to not be there, but you already fixed your stuff to make it do what you want. SNIP -- Alan McKinnon Alan, Maybe in the future you'll consider this story: For your entertainment, please imagine an 82 year old woman who, unknown to anyone, has somehow gone beyond simple web browsing and email and managed to teach herself to watch a DVD on her Gentoo laptop. Possibly she is hard of hearing? This works well for her as she can use headphones and listen at levels that work for her any time of day or night. Once you get your head around that picture, please imagine this user being frustrated for _months_ when her 'no good reason to be there DVD' goes away. This user feels, for no good technical reason, that she has somehow hurt her computer and worse worries about the costs of fixing it. She remains silent, doesn't ask for help and loses access to something that she enjoys all because someone in the dev community decides to 'make a change'. I see what you want to communicate with that story, it's just not a circumstance unique to Gentoo or even Linux. All computers and all operating systems that upgrade go through the same thing, be it Windows, Ubuntu, MacOS, Android, iOS, the other IOS, the whole lot of them do this and break stuff if you let them update. MacOS has most certainly got to be the worst - they almost have an official policy to break APIs wantonly for fun and never supporting the breakage past the next version. Windows fares best as the corporate customers insist of a large measure of backwards compatibility. Unfortunately that is the nature of today's connected world. There is a way around it though, which is to not update the software and apply only bug and security fixes. Think Ubuntu LTS here - that would nicely solve the problem for the non-tech-savvy 82 year old and it's a good compromise: no sudden unexplained changes together with a good degree of safety But for your own use you have chosen Gentoo with it's implicit agreement that you will keep both pieces. You've always been upfront about your use case and why you chose Gentoo, and I took notice. It's now quite a few years down the track and you are still here. The ricers have all come and gone[1], but Mark is still here. Apparently Gentoo still suits his needs for the most part, and he's dealing with Gentoo just fine. Not every user (of Gentoo or any other distro) lives in the rarefied world of a Linux Sys Admin, much less the far more lowly and infinitely more mundane world I inhabit. My experience is that people almost always need a little help and almost never ask. I'll tell you a short story in return. Over the festive period I had need to describe myself briefly. Without thinking I blurted out Borderline bipolar, OCD and somewhat Emo I'm not really into self-diagnosis, but that description seems to fit. I know I shoot my mouth off too often, but you shouldn't take it personally. Software is engineering - there's a few ways it can be done right, and lots of ways it can be done wrong (all fully documented...). When I talk about these things I usually forget I'm talking to people, not machines. So I apologize for my tone - I could have said the same thing in a very different way and gotten a very different result. I would so much prefer to not draw comparisons between sysadmins and users - experience teaches that nothing good comes out of that. If you describe yourself as a regular user then that's cool by me, I'd just like to point out again that many years later you are still here and the ricers aren't - that's gotta count for something. For my part, I think you contribute more back to this community than you might give yourself credit for. Mere user is not a good description of where you fit in [1] I'm not sure where that crowd all went they migrated en-masse to Ubuntu a while back, then to Fedora. I think they might be hanging out at Arch currently... -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 12:26:04 -0800 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP Life is full of silly and not-so-silly conventions and /dev/dvd is one of them. It has no good reason to be there, and equally no good reason to not be there, but you already fixed your stuff to make it do what you want. SNIP -- Alan McKinnon Alan, Maybe in the future you'll consider this story: For your entertainment, please imagine an 82 year old woman who, unknown to anyone, has somehow gone beyond simple web browsing and email and managed to teach herself to watch a DVD on her Gentoo laptop. Possibly she is hard of hearing? This works well for her as she can use headphones and listen at levels that work for her any time of day or night. Once you get your head around that picture, please imagine this user being frustrated for _months_ when her 'no good reason to be there DVD' goes away. This user feels, for no good technical reason, that she has somehow hurt her computer and worse worries about the costs of fixing it. She remains silent, doesn't ask for help and loses access to something that she enjoys all because someone in the dev community decides to 'make a change'. I see what you want to communicate with that story, it's just not a circumstance unique to Gentoo or even Linux. All computers and all operating systems that upgrade go through the same thing, be it Windows, Ubuntu, MacOS, Android, iOS, the other IOS, the whole lot of them do this and break stuff if you let them update. MacOS has most certainly got to be the worst - they almost have an official policy to break APIs wantonly for fun and never supporting the breakage past the next version. Windows fares best as the corporate customers insist of a large measure of backwards compatibility. Unfortunately that is the nature of today's connected world. There is a way around it though, which is to not update the software and apply only bug and security fixes. Think Ubuntu LTS here - that would nicely solve the problem for the non-tech-savvy 82 year old and it's a good compromise: no sudden unexplained changes together with a good degree of safety But for your own use you have chosen Gentoo with it's implicit agreement that you will keep both pieces. You've always been upfront about your use case and why you chose Gentoo, and I took notice. It's now quite a few years down the track and you are still here. The ricers have all come and gone[1], but Mark is still here. Apparently Gentoo still suits his needs for the most part, and he's dealing with Gentoo just fine. Not every user (of Gentoo or any other distro) lives in the rarefied world of a Linux Sys Admin, much less the far more lowly and infinitely more mundane world I inhabit. My experience is that people almost always need a little help and almost never ask. I'll tell you a short story in return. Over the festive period I had need to describe myself briefly. Without thinking I blurted out Borderline bipolar, OCD and somewhat Emo I'm not really into self-diagnosis, but that description seems to fit. I know I shoot my mouth off too often, but you shouldn't take it personally. Software is engineering - there's a few ways it can be done right, and lots of ways it can be done wrong (all fully documented...). When I talk about these things I usually forget I'm talking to people, not machines. So I apologize for my tone - I could have said the same thing in a very different way and gotten a very different result. I would so much prefer to not draw comparisons between sysadmins and users - experience teaches that nothing good comes out of that. If you describe yourself as a regular user then that's cool by me, I'd just like to point out again that many years later you are still here and the ricers aren't - that's gotta count for something. For my part, I think you contribute more back to this community than you might give yourself credit for. Mere user is not a good description of where you fit in I must have arrived after the ricers left, but I'd like to note that both Mark and Dale fall into that group of don't think they're all that special...but they still use a distro that requires you learn, pay attention and *think* more than any other distro I know of. I can't think of a type of 'mere user' I'd rather have to deal with, as a technical guy who dislikes people who regularly throw their hands in the air and claim helplessness. Just by using the systems they use, attacking the problems they attack...and remaining successful as they do, they're head and shoulders above a lot of people I've known who've merely 'claimed' to be technical. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
Mark Knecht wrote: On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP Life is full of silly and not-so-silly conventions and /dev/dvd is one of them. It has no good reason to be there, and equally no good reason to not be there, but you already fixed your stuff to make it do what you want. SNIP -- Alan McKinnon Alan, Maybe in the future you'll consider this story: For your entertainment, please imagine an 82 year old woman who, unknown to anyone, has somehow gone beyond simple web browsing and email and managed to teach herself to watch a DVD on her Gentoo laptop. Possibly she is hard of hearing? This works well for her as she can use headphones and listen at levels that work for her any time of day or night. Once you get your head around that picture, please imagine this user being frustrated for _months_ when her 'no good reason to be there DVD' goes away. This user feels, for no good technical reason, that she has somehow hurt her computer and worse worries about the costs of fixing it. She remains silent, doesn't ask for help and loses access to something that she enjoys all because someone in the dev community decides to 'make a change'. Not every user (of Gentoo or any other distro) lives in the rarefied world of a Linux Sys Admin, much less the far more lowly and infinitely more mundane world I inhabit. My experience is that people almost always need a little help and almost never ask. Over and out, Mark I have a better question. Why is a 82 year old woman using Gentoo? If she installed Gentoo, updated Gentoo then she must be able to do something with Gentoo, right? Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
[gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On 2013-01-07, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. It's been something like 6-8 years hasn't it? I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. IIRC, the IDE CDROM devices moved over to the SCSI subsystem some time before IDE hard drives did -- but it's been a while... Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Yes, it was an intentional change. I haven't seen a /dev/hd* device for years and years. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! I joined scientology at at a garage sale!! gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote:
On 2013-01-07, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a
good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it
was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*.
It's been something like 6-8 years hasn't it?
IIRC the SATA interface has always labeled them as /dev/sdX /dev/srX.
Everything I've built using new hardware in the last 5 years has been
SATA based and I've not had a new machine with /dev/hdX in longer than
I can remember.
However, best I can tell, that has _nothing_ to do with why /dev/cdrom
/dev/dvd disappeared in the last couple of months. Remember, my
machines have all had /dev/srX.
Going back to my post with one of many solutions to this issue:
First - the old way that udev was recognizing the cdrw/dvd drive on my
system was via an ID_PATH value for the pci device:
#SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_PATH}==pci-:00:1f.2-scsi-0:0:0:0, SYMLINK+=cdrom,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
However you will note that ID_PATH (the key used by udev) doesn't exist any more
c2stable ~ # udevadm info --query=all --name=/dev/sr0 | grep ID_PATH
c2stable ~ #
Best guess I have is that ID_PATH may have been changed to DEVPATH
c2stable ~ # udevadm info --query=all --name=/dev/sr0 | grep DEVPATH
E:
DEVPATH=/devices/pci:00/:00:1f.2/ata11/host10/target10:0:0/10:0:0:0/block/sr0
c2stable ~ #
What I did was ask udev to identify by the drive's model number using ID_MODEL:
New way:
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_MODEL}==Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S, SYMLINK+=cdrom,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
A little playing around suggest you can use anything unique to the device.
Now, my point is that change to /dev/srX was the root cause is FUD. It
isn't the root cause of this change because it didn't change on my
systems. All I know is that ID_PATH (from the old file) used to work
and no longer does. Whatever is responsible for creating that, likely
some portion of the kernel, changed the value and created a need to
modify how udev looks at the system. Is it a bug? I don't know. It's
just the way it is.
Just my views,
Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Monday 07 Jan 2013 07:35:32 Dale wrote: I think you misunderstand or I didn't make myself clear. I'm not saying it was udev that did this. I am pretty sure it was the kernel. All this happened when people with older IDE drives, myself included on my old machine, had to switch to the new drivers and devices. Before the change, old IDE drives and CD/DVD drives were given hd* devices and udev made a link to that with /dev/cdrom or dvd or whatever for optical devices which is what you seem to expect now. The reason udev did that was for it to be consistent which I have no problem with . When the kernel folks changed this, they also changed it from /dev/cdrom and /dev/dvd to /dev/sr0. From my understanding, all optical devices such as CD and DVD readers/burners are supposed to be sr0. I know k3b updated theirs too. I seem to recall I had to run a unstable version for a bit because the older version didn't have the code to see sr* devices. I never said anything was broke, just that it was changed. There was several things that was changed at about the same time that were related and this was just one of them. Another was the change from /dev/hdXX to /dev/sdXX for ALL hard drives. This change happened even if you was using the old IDE drives. As I understand it, /dev/hdxx is no longer supported on current kernels. All hard drives are /dev/sdxx and optical drives are /dev/sr0(1,2,3,4 etc). Also, I didn't remove anything. It was changed by the kernel which also lead to udev changing what it did. Again, as much as I dislike what udev is planning, I never said udev did this one. I'm pretty sure this was all started with the kernel devs. The udev folks just followed along. The biggest thing I recall is everyone with IDE drives having to update the kernel config, edit fstab and grub or lilo before rebooting. This was discussed on this list and I don't recall much fuss except for having to change it and update everything. It was sort of a one time thing and had a long term goal. All hard drives are sdxx and optical devices are srx. All this happened when I was on my old rig which was at least a few years ago. Does that make more sense now? Dale :-) :-) I think that you are conflating two issues which are separate in terms of chronology at least. Years ago we moved to libata and hdX changed to sdX. The udev confguration was updated at the time to link /dev/cd* and /dev/dvd* to srX. More recently, the udev rules nomenclature changed. The udev persistent-cd rules however was not changed. I moved it, remerged stable udev and the file was not recreated. So something in udev has changed and it no longer generates the persistent-cd rules. BTW, pressing the touch sensitive button on the laptop to eject the CD won't work, neither will typing eject in a terminal: $ eject eject: tried to use `/mnt/cdrom' as device name but it is no block device eject: unable to find or open device for: `cdrom' So, eject is still looking for cdrom ... Either all commands and legacy apps should update themselves, or I better follow Mark's suggestion? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 09:37:05 -0800 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Now, my point is that change to /dev/srX was the root cause is FUD. It isn't the root cause of this change because it didn't change on my systems. All I know is that ID_PATH (from the old file) used to work and no longer does. Whatever is responsible for creating that, likely some portion of the kernel, changed the value and created a need to modify how udev looks at the system. Is it a bug? I don't know. It's just the way it is. It's not a bug as /dev/dvd is a mere convenience for the user - a nickname if you will. You are highly unlikely to find a standards doc of any kind stating the symlink should be there. Which means if it's not there, you get to make your own convenient nicknames. /dev/harddrive has never existed, right? Same with /dev/dvd and friends. make them if you want, but you can't expect them to be there and their absence is not a bug. Obviously someone left them out of the rules files. Maybe they had a reason, maybe they got lazy. Either way you get to add your own rules to get the names YOU want. It really is as simple as that, don't overthink this one. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 09:37:05 -0800 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Now, my point is that change to /dev/srX was the root cause is FUD. It isn't the root cause of this change because it didn't change on my systems. All I know is that ID_PATH (from the old file) used to work and no longer does. Whatever is responsible for creating that, likely some portion of the kernel, changed the value and created a need to modify how udev looks at the system. Is it a bug? I don't know. It's just the way it is. It's not a bug as /dev/dvd is a mere convenience for the user - a nickname if you will. You are highly unlikely to find a standards doc of any kind stating the symlink should be there. Which means if it's not there, you get to make your own convenient nicknames. /dev/harddrive has never existed, right? Same with /dev/dvd and friends. make them if you want, but you can't expect them to be there and their absence is not a bug. Obviously someone left them out of the rules files. Maybe they had a reason, maybe they got lazy. Either way you get to add your own rules to get the names YOU want. It really is as simple as that, don't overthink this one. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com Alan, While I don't completely disagree with your POV, let's at least agree that it is nothing other than your POV. I have a different one, but as it's mine it's clearly of little interest or value. I really don't see why I'm the one getting banged on here but that's life sometimes. I saw a problem for a couple of months. It frustrated me but not enough to do anything about it. Solving it finally bubbled up high enough on my list that I finally asked if others were having the same problem. (which they were, and which they also considered a problem) Before anyone had actually answered me I had posted one way that folks who cared could fix it. I thought I was doing the community a small service by getting a little bit of technically positive info out there. I guess not in this case. Sorry for wasting bandwidth. I suspect it's time for me to unsubscribe and just read gentoo-user in a list somewhere. Sad, but flotsam jetsam I suppose... Over an out, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Jan 7, 2013 8:08 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 09:37:05 -0800 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Now, my point is that change to /dev/srX was the root cause is FUD. It isn't the root cause of this change because it didn't change on my systems. All I know is that ID_PATH (from the old file) used to work and no longer does. Whatever is responsible for creating that, likely some portion of the kernel, changed the value and created a need to modify how udev looks at the system. Is it a bug? I don't know. It's just the way it is. It's not a bug as /dev/dvd is a mere convenience for the user - a nickname if you will. You are highly unlikely to find a standards doc of any kind stating the symlink should be there. Which means if it's not there, you get to make your own convenient nicknames. /dev/harddrive has never existed, right? Same with /dev/dvd and friends. make them if you want, but you can't expect them to be there and their absence is not a bug. Obviously someone left them out of the rules files. Maybe they had a reason, maybe they got lazy. Either way you get to add your own rules to get the names YOU want. It really is as simple as that, don't overthink this one. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com Alan, While I don't completely disagree with your POV, let's at least agree that it is nothing other than your POV. I have a different one, but as it's mine it's clearly of little interest or value. I really don't see why I'm the one getting banged on here but that's life sometimes. I saw a problem for a couple of months. It frustrated me but not enough to do anything about it. Solving it finally bubbled up high enough on my list that I finally asked if others were having the same problem. (which they were, and which they also considered a problem) Before anyone had actually answered me I had posted one way that folks who cared could fix it. I thought I was doing the community a small service by getting a little bit of technically positive info out there. I guess not in this case. Sorry for wasting bandwidth. I suspect it's time for me to unsubscribe and just read gentoo-user in a list somewhere. Sad, but flotsam jetsam I suppose... Over an out, Mark Eh. Please stick around. Udev is a polarizing issue wherever it pops up.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Tuesday 08 Jan 2013 01:15:10 Michael Mol wrote: On Jan 7, 2013 8:08 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry for wasting bandwidth. I suspect it's time for me to unsubscribe and just read gentoo-user in a list somewhere. Sad, but flotsam jetsam I suppose... Over an out, Mark Eh. Please stick around. Udev is a polarizing issue wherever it pops up. Mark, I don't think anyone is having a go at you and FWIW you're not wasting *my* bandwidth. I found your suggestion useful for solving this problem. Meanwhile, this bug has been kicking around recognising that there is indeed a problem, which it seems will be solved with udev-196-r1: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=444604 I haven't upgraded yet to see if it works. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 22:53:19 + Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 07 Jan 2013 07:35:32 Dale wrote: BTW, pressing the touch sensitive button on the laptop to eject the CD won't work, neither will typing eject in a terminal: $ eject eject: tried to use `/mnt/cdrom' as device name but it is no block device eject: unable to find or open device for: `cdrom' So, eject is still looking for cdrom ... Either all commands and legacy apps should update themselves, or I better follow Mark's suggestion? Mick, You can tell eject which device to eject by adding the device-name to the command, eg: # eject /dev/sr0 This also works with USB-drives/sticks :) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Saturday 05 Jan 2013 20:44:07 Mark Knecht wrote:
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote:
I think I touched on this a couple of weeks ago but never had time to
dig in. At that time I thought this problem was only on one machine
but now I see it's on every machine I've looked at this morning. Not a
single machine has /dev/cdrom anymore, nor /dev/dvd or any of the
other incantations that have existed forever.
SNIP
OK, this is solved using udevadm and changing the
70-persistent-cd.rules file to key off a different identifier.
Old way:
#SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_PATH}==pci-:00:1f.2-scsi-0:0:0:0, SYMLINK+=cdrom,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
New way:
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_MODEL}==Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S, SYMLINK+=cdrom,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
c2stable ~ # udevadm info --query=all --name=/dev/sr0
P:
/devices/pci:00/:00:1f.2/ata11/host10/target10:0:0/10:0:0:0/block/
sr0 N: sr0
S: scd0
S: disk/by-id/ata-Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S
S: cdrom
S: cdrw
S: dvd
S: dvdrw
E: UDEV_LOG=3
E:
DEVPATH=/devices/pci:00/:00:1f.2/ata11/host10/target10:0:0/10:0:0:
0/block/sr0 E: MAJOR=11
E: MINOR=0
E: DEVNAME=/dev/sr0
E: DEVTYPE=disk
E: SUBSYSTEM=block
E: ID_CDROM=1
E: ID_CDROM_CD=1
E: ID_CDROM_CD_R=1
E: ID_CDROM_CD_RW=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_R=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_RW=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_RAM=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_PLUS_R=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_PLUS_RW=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_PLUS_R_DL=1
E: ID_CDROM_MRW=1
E: ID_CDROM_MRW_W=1
E: ID_ATA=1
E: ID_TYPE=cd
E: ID_BUS=ata
E: ID_MODEL=Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S
E:
ID_MODEL_ENC=Optiarc\x20DVD\x20RW\x20AD-7241S\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\
x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20 E: ID_REVISION=1.03
E: ID_SERIAL=Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S
E: ID_ATA_FEATURE_SET_PM=1
E: ID_ATA_FEATURE_SET_PM_ENABLED=1
E: ID_ATA_SATA=1
E: ID_ATA_SATA_SIGNAL_RATE_GEN1=1
E: GENERATED=1
E: UDISKS_PRESENTATION_NOPOLICY=0
E: DEVLINKS=/dev/scd0 /dev/disk/by-id/ata-Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S
/dev/cdrom /dev/cdrw /dev/dvd /dev/dvdrw
E: TAGS=:udev-acl:
c2stable ~ #
Maybe this post will save someone else some time.
Thanks Mark, but why do we have to make this file changes ourselves? Isn't it
a bug?
PS. I also have cd dvd /dev links missing.
--
Regards,
Mick
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 3:19 AM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP Maybe this post will save someone else some time. Thanks Mark, but why do we have to make this file changes ourselves? Isn't it a bug? PS. I also have cd dvd /dev links missing. -- Regards, Mick I'd say it's a bug. Waiting for it to get officially fixed meant my wife couldn't easily watch a dvd without starting to understand /dev which I didn't think was fair to her. I'm not suggesting what I did was 'the best way', etc. Anyway, I suspect between my and Dave's posts some folks will be able to make things work a bit better until an official solution shows up. In my now nearly 10 years with Gentoo I'd never spent 5 minutes looking at what udev provides. So many people knock it recently. I thought it time to learn a little before it disappears. Cheers, Mar
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
Mark Knecht wrote: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 3:19 AM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP Maybe this post will save someone else some time. Thanks Mark, but why do we have to make this file changes ourselves? Isn't it a bug? PS. I also have cd dvd /dev links missing. -- Regards, Mick I'd say it's a bug. Waiting for it to get officially fixed meant my wife couldn't easily watch a dvd without starting to understand /dev which I didn't think was fair to her. I'm not suggesting what I did was 'the best way', etc. Anyway, I suspect between my and Dave's posts some folks will be able to make things work a bit better until an official solution shows up. In my now nearly 10 years with Gentoo I'd never spent 5 minutes looking at what udev provides. So many people knock it recently. I thought it time to learn a little before it disappears. Cheers, Mar I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Dale Might be true but how about digging up some references that this was done on purpose. It makes little sense to me that if someone did this on purpose, breaking lots of old scripts, leaving broken udev rules laying about and just assuming everyone would figure it out without so much and a news item then I'd say it was done pretty badly. Again, if it truly was 'on purpose' as you say then that's OK, but let's not create too much false history here. In my mind it's just as reasonable that it's just a mistake or someone that was overlooked, but I'm totally open to you showing us what we all missed.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On 07/01/13 09:44, Mark Knecht wrote: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Dale Might be true but how about digging up some references that this was done on purpose. It makes little sense to me that if someone did this on purpose, breaking lots of old scripts, leaving broken udev rules laying about and just assuming everyone would figure it out without so much and a news item then I'd say it was done pretty badly. Again, if it truly was 'on purpose' as you say then that's OK, but let's not create too much false history here. In my mind it's just as reasonable that it's just a mistake or someone that was overlooked, but I'm totally open to you showing us what we all missed. Seems like the cabal has been busy again ... its not a bug but a feature! http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=commit;h=19b66dc57cce27175ff421c4c3a37e4a491b9c01 Also some hits on gentoo forums etc which imply that when actually merged, the rules file was not included.. This did happen awhile back and I just moved to /dev/sr0 and got on with life so didnt go into it in too much detail. BillK
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:53 PM, William Kenworthy bi...@iinet.net.au wrote: On 07/01/13 09:44, Mark Knecht wrote: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Dale Might be true but how about digging up some references that this was done on purpose. It makes little sense to me that if someone did this on purpose, breaking lots of old scripts, leaving broken udev rules laying about and just assuming everyone would figure it out without so much and a news item then I'd say it was done pretty badly. Again, if it truly was 'on purpose' as you say then that's OK, but let's not create too much false history here. In my mind it's just as reasonable that it's just a mistake or someone that was overlooked, but I'm totally open to you showing us what we all missed. Seems like the cabal has been busy again ... its not a bug but a feature! http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=commit;h=19b66dc57cce27175ff421c4c3a37e4a491b9c01 Also some hits on gentoo forums etc which imply that when actually merged, the rules file was not included.. This did happen awhile back and I just moved to /dev/sr0 and got on with life so didnt go into it in too much detail. BillK Bill, From the link you provided: From now on, udev will only create /dev/cdrom for the first optical drive, and if the drive is capable /dev/dvd. No other devices will get any compatibility symlinks or enumerated device names like cdrom1, cdrom2, and so on. The /dev/cdrom and /dev/dvd links have by default a negative link priority, which will cause them to be overwritten by any other device which clains the same names with already existing udev rules. According to the above info Kay didn't single-handedly eliminate /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd. I understand lots of folks are quite unhappy with udev and some of the decisions Kay has been taking. (I do real LKML!) :-) Anyway, I'm not saying it isn't on purpose. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
William Kenworthy wrote: On 07/01/13 09:44, Mark Knecht wrote: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Dale Might be true but how about digging up some references that this was done on purpose. It makes little sense to me that if someone did this on purpose, breaking lots of old scripts, leaving broken udev rules laying about and just assuming everyone would figure it out without so much and a news item then I'd say it was done pretty badly. Again, if it truly was 'on purpose' as you say then that's OK, but let's not create too much false history here. In my mind it's just as reasonable that it's just a mistake or someone that was overlooked, but I'm totally open to you showing us what we all missed. Seems like the cabal has been busy again ... its not a bug but a feature! http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=commit;h=19b66dc57cce27175ff421c4c3a37e4a491b9c01 Also some hits on gentoo forums etc which imply that when actually merged, the rules file was not included.. This did happen awhile back and I just moved to /dev/sr0 and got on with life so didnt go into it in too much detail. BillK This is not Gentoo specific but I found this in a search that is just getting started: http://rlworkman.net/howtos/libata-switchover So, it did happen when switching from old IDE based drivers to the newer, some claim improved, PATA/SATA drivers. It appears the kernel started this but still searching for confirmation. Like Bill, when it was changed, I just updated the device information in my programs and went on. It was the new way and it seemed it was going to be around for a good long while. It looks like people who have created scripts are going to have to fire up vi or nano and do a little updating. Going to search some more to get a better source. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
Dale wrote: William Kenworthy wrote: On 07/01/13 09:44, Mark Knecht wrote: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Dale Might be true but how about digging up some references that this was done on purpose. It makes little sense to me that if someone did this on purpose, breaking lots of old scripts, leaving broken udev rules laying about and just assuming everyone would figure it out without so much and a news item then I'd say it was done pretty badly. Again, if it truly was 'on purpose' as you say then that's OK, but let's not create too much false history here. In my mind it's just as reasonable that it's just a mistake or someone that was overlooked, but I'm totally open to you showing us what we all missed. Seems like the cabal has been busy again ... its not a bug but a feature! http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=commit;h=19b66dc57cce27175ff421c4c3a37e4a491b9c01 Also some hits on gentoo forums etc which imply that when actually merged, the rules file was not included.. This did happen awhile back and I just moved to /dev/sr0 and got on with life so didnt go into it in too much detail. BillK This is not Gentoo specific but I found this in a search that is just getting started: http://rlworkman.net/howtos/libata-switchover So, it did happen when switching from old IDE based drivers to the newer, some claim improved, PATA/SATA drivers. It appears the kernel started this but still searching for confirmation. Like Bill, when it was changed, I just updated the device information in my programs and went on. It was the new way and it seemed it was going to be around for a good long while. It looks like people who have created scripts are going to have to fire up vi or nano and do a little updating. Going to search some more to get a better source. Dale :-) :-) This links goes to a specific post in the thread. Don't scroll or you will have to dig. The one to look far if it messes up is the post by NeddySeagoon. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6362608.html#6362608 More info: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/kernel-config.xml#doc_chap3 According to one page I found, this happened several years ago so no idea how anyone missed it this long. It was discussed on this very list but my archives don't go back that far. I figure if I don't run into a problem in a year or so, I missed it which is a odd thing of itself since I usually find every problem there is. ;-) Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP This links goes to a specific post in the thread. Don't scroll or you will have to dig. The one to look far if it messes up is the post by NeddySeagoon. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6362608.html#6362608 More info: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/kernel-config.xml#doc_chap3 According to one page I found, this happened several years ago so no idea how anyone missed it this long. It was discussed on this very list but my archives don't go back that far. I figure if I don't run into a problem in a year or so, I missed it which is a odd thing of itself since I usually find every problem there is. ;-) Dale Dale, Thanks for digging that up. It's interesting, but I don't think it's exactly relevant. TTBOMK I've used /dev/sdX and /dev/srX for as long as it's been available. Most of my machines these days were all built after the change so it's all they've ever known. Maybe one machine used /dev/dhX. However, that's not the issue I'm looking for background on. You seemed to say earlier that it's a widely known thing that udev links to /dev/srX are not only broken but also bogus. You don't use them. Others have seen the same issue. I've seen the udev links not work for a couple of months. However from what I can tell you don't use them 1) because they broke, and 2) like me you never took the time to determine _why_ they broke. I was in the same place until yesterday when I decided to dig in a little bit. Now, my point is that while the old links created in old rules files are broken (and they are) it's not clear to me that udev is broken. Clear Kay Sievers (sp?) still assumes they work although they will automatically only do /dev/sr0. The use is responsible for creating others if they need them. (Which 99% of folks will not, so basically, it still works.) What appears to have actually broken is the old PCI path nomeclature, and not 'udev proper', as best I can tell. Anyway, it's well known in the known universe that you are mad at udev so I don't expect you're looking for ways to make this stuff work and I do appreciate you digging the stuff up that you found. Thanks. Over and out, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
Mark Knecht wrote: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP This links goes to a specific post in the thread. Don't scroll or you will have to dig. The one to look far if it messes up is the post by NeddySeagoon. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6362608.html#6362608 More info: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/kernel-config.xml#doc_chap3 According to one page I found, this happened several years ago so no idea how anyone missed it this long. It was discussed on this very list but my archives don't go back that far. I figure if I don't run into a problem in a year or so, I missed it which is a odd thing of itself since I usually find every problem there is. ;-) Dale Dale, Thanks for digging that up. It's interesting, but I don't think it's exactly relevant. TTBOMK I've used /dev/sdX and /dev/srX for as long as it's been available. Most of my machines these days were all built after the change so it's all they've ever known. Maybe one machine used /dev/dhX. However, that's not the issue I'm looking for background on. You seemed to say earlier that it's a widely known thing that udev links to /dev/srX are not only broken but also bogus. You don't use them. Others have seen the same issue. I've seen the udev links not work for a couple of months. However from what I can tell you don't use them 1) because they broke, and 2) like me you never took the time to determine _why_ they broke. I was in the same place until yesterday when I decided to dig in a little bit. Now, my point is that while the old links created in old rules files are broken (and they are) it's not clear to me that udev is broken. Clear Kay Sievers (sp?) still assumes they work although they will automatically only do /dev/sr0. The use is responsible for creating others if they need them. (Which 99% of folks will not, so basically, it still works.) What appears to have actually broken is the old PCI path nomeclature, and not 'udev proper', as best I can tell. Anyway, it's well known in the known universe that you are mad at udev so I don't expect you're looking for ways to make this stuff work and I do appreciate you digging the stuff up that you found. Thanks. Over and out, Mark I think you misunderstand or I didn't make myself clear. I'm not saying it was udev that did this. I am pretty sure it was the kernel. All this happened when people with older IDE drives, myself included on my old machine, had to switch to the new drivers and devices. Before the change, old IDE drives and CD/DVD drives were given hd* devices and udev made a link to that with /dev/cdrom or dvd or whatever for optical devices which is what you seem to expect now. The reason udev did that was for it to be consistent which I have no problem with . When the kernel folks changed this, they also changed it from /dev/cdrom and /dev/dvd to /dev/sr0. From my understanding, all optical devices such as CD and DVD readers/burners are supposed to be sr0. I know k3b updated theirs too. I seem to recall I had to run a unstable version for a bit because the older version didn't have the code to see sr* devices. I never said anything was broke, just that it was changed. There was several things that was changed at about the same time that were related and this was just one of them. Another was the change from /dev/hdXX to /dev/sdXX for ALL hard drives. This change happened even if you was using the old IDE drives. As I understand it, /dev/hdxx is no longer supported on current kernels. All hard drives are /dev/sdxx and optical drives are /dev/sr0(1,2,3,4 etc). Also, I didn't remove anything. It was changed by the kernel which also lead to udev changing what it did. Again, as much as I dislike what udev is planning, I never said udev did this one. I'm pretty sure this was all started with the kernel devs. The udev folks just followed along. The biggest thing I recall is everyone with IDE drives having to update the kernel config, edit fstab and grub or lilo before rebooting. This was discussed on this list and I don't recall much fuss except for having to change it and update everything. It was sort of a one time thing and had a long term goal. All hard drives are sdxx and optical devices are srx. All this happened when I was on my old rig which was at least a few years ago. Does that make more sense now? Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
[gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote:
I think I touched on this a couple of weeks ago but never had time to
dig in. At that time I thought this problem was only on one machine
but now I see it's on every machine I've looked at this morning. Not a
single machine has /dev/cdrom anymore, nor /dev/dvd or any of the
other incantations that have existed forever.
SNIP
OK, this is solved using udevadm and changing the
70-persistent-cd.rules file to key off a different identifier.
Old way:
#SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_PATH}==pci-:00:1f.2-scsi-0:0:0:0, SYMLINK+=cdrom,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
New way:
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_MODEL}==Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S, SYMLINK+=cdrom,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
c2stable ~ # udevadm info --query=all --name=/dev/sr0
P: /devices/pci:00/:00:1f.2/ata11/host10/target10:0:0/10:0:0:0/block/sr0
N: sr0
S: scd0
S: disk/by-id/ata-Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S
S: cdrom
S: cdrw
S: dvd
S: dvdrw
E: UDEV_LOG=3
E:
DEVPATH=/devices/pci:00/:00:1f.2/ata11/host10/target10:0:0/10:0:0:0/block/sr0
E: MAJOR=11
E: MINOR=0
E: DEVNAME=/dev/sr0
E: DEVTYPE=disk
E: SUBSYSTEM=block
E: ID_CDROM=1
E: ID_CDROM_CD=1
E: ID_CDROM_CD_R=1
E: ID_CDROM_CD_RW=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_R=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_RW=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_RAM=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_PLUS_R=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_PLUS_RW=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_PLUS_R_DL=1
E: ID_CDROM_MRW=1
E: ID_CDROM_MRW_W=1
E: ID_ATA=1
E: ID_TYPE=cd
E: ID_BUS=ata
E: ID_MODEL=Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S
E:
ID_MODEL_ENC=Optiarc\x20DVD\x20RW\x20AD-7241S\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20
E: ID_REVISION=1.03
E: ID_SERIAL=Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S
E: ID_ATA_FEATURE_SET_PM=1
E: ID_ATA_FEATURE_SET_PM_ENABLED=1
E: ID_ATA_SATA=1
E: ID_ATA_SATA_SIGNAL_RATE_GEN1=1
E: GENERATED=1
E: UDISKS_PRESENTATION_NOPOLICY=0
E: DEVLINKS=/dev/scd0 /dev/disk/by-id/ata-Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S
/dev/cdrom /dev/cdrw /dev/dvd /dev/dvdrw
E: TAGS=:udev-acl:
c2stable ~ #
Maybe this post will save someone else some time.
Cheers,
Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 12:44:07 -0800
Mark Knecht wrote -
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote:
I think I touched on this a couple of weeks ago but never had time to
dig in. At that time I thought this problem was only on one machine
but now I see it's on every machine I've looked at this morning. Not a
single machine has /dev/cdrom anymore, nor /dev/dvd or any of the
other incantations that have existed forever.
SNIP
OK, this is solved using udevadm and changing the
70-persistent-cd.rules file to key off a different identifier.
Old way:
#SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_PATH}==pci-:00:1f.2-scsi-0:0:0:0, SYMLINK+=cdrom,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
New way:
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_MODEL}==Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S, SYMLINK+=cdrom,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
I had the same problem. Came to a different solution. Following for
your amusement and edifcation are my notes taken as I debugged.
==2012-11-26
udev is not creating /dev/cdrom symlinks so all my scripts that use
/dev/cdrom or attempt to moun /dev/cdrom fail.
Not sure when this actually started happening. I last burned a dvd on Oct
23 so it was OK then. /etc/udev/roules.d/70-persistent-cdrom.rules is dated
Oct 30. It looks plausible.
Documentation implies that removing said file and rebooting will cause udev
to recreate it correctly. I was unable to cause it to be rebuilt,
correctly or otherwise, in this manner.
==2012-11-27
Created /dev/cdrom - /dev/sr0 symlink manually because burn script wants
to mount /dev/cdrom on /mnt/cdrom.
This time the backup copy/burn went flawlessly. I think udev is also
causing problems.
70-persistent-cd.rules may be wrong for my current kernel
I don't think the ID_PATH has scsi as a path anymore.
==2012-12-04
I syncd on Friday(Dec 1), but did not do emerge.
Doing the regular upgrade emerge.
new virtual/udev-171 I guess this is prep for the proposed udev fork.
open-rc goes from 0.11.5 to 0.11.6 This might bear on cd.rules issue.
But apparently not, there seems to be no change.
No config files
revdep-rebuild was clean
udev should be restarted. (reboot might be better)
On reboot 70-persistent-net.rules was created. It was the same as the old
one. No cd rules file.
I then inserted my memorex usb stick that has a cdrom partition on it.
Lo! a 70-persistent-cd.rules file appeared with 2 lines for the memorex.
plus /dev/cdrom /dev/cdrw symlinks to sr1.
If I pull the stick sr1, cdrom, and cdrw go away. They come back if I
reinsert it. 70*cd.rules remains unchanged.
Note: Running udevadm control --log-priority=info
puts copious amounts of stuff into /var/log/everything/current
Debug even more
Remember to reset it to err when not experimenting.
Findings:
/lib/udev/rules.d/75-cd-aliases-generator.rules
invokes
/lib/udev/write_cd_rules
to actually write the /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-cd.rules file.
for usb cdroms it calls it with by-id as an arg. Non usb device no arg
which defaults to by-path in the callee.
by-path requires $ID_PATH variable to have a value. Turns out that
udevadm info --query=all --name=/dev/sr0
shows that for the built -in drive there is no BY_PATH variable set.
(it is set for sr1 the usb stick!)
So it looks like the write_cd_rules script bails with return code of 1
without actually writing anything.
Solution to try:
Copy /lib/udev/rules.d/75-cd-aliases-generator.rules to /etc/udev/rules.d
and edit it there to invoke /write_cd_rules with by-id in both cases
and see what happens.
==2012-12-05
Yess!
Did above and it just worked.
My 70-persistent-cd.rules file now contains:
# HL-DT-ST_DVDRAM_GH22NS70 ()
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_SERIAL}==HL-DT-ST_DVDRAM_GH22NS70_K24B5GJ2632, SYMLINK+=cdrom,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_SERIAL}==HL-DT-ST_DVDRAM_GH22NS70_K24B5GJ2632, SYMLINK+=cdrw,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_SERIAL}==HL-DT-ST_DVDRAM_GH22NS70_K24B5GJ2632, SYMLINK+=dvd,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_SERIAL}==HL-DT-ST_DVDRAM_GH22NS70_K24B5GJ2632, SYMLINK+=dvdrw,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
# TD_ID_UFD_301B (pci-:00:1d.0-usb-0:1.2:1.0-scsi-0:0:0:0)
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_SERIAL}==Memorex_TD_ID_UFD_301B_07630E9000EB-0:0, SYMLINK+=cdrom1,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_SERIAL}==Memorex_TD_ID_UFD_301B_07630E9000EB-0:0, SYMLINK+=cdrw1,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
Modifying 75-cd-aliases-generator.rules has an advantage over Mark's solution
in that it will automatically catch all installed cdrom- type devices and it
should add the dvd rules as appropriate to the device's capabilities.
Dave F
