[gentoo-user] Re: Back to openrc from systemd
On 2013-03-22, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 7:45 PM, João Matos jaon...@gmail.com wrote: Hi list, do you know some guide to switch form systemd to openrc, or keep both? I googled and I didn't find. The motivation is that I'm studing many server stuff, and I'm tired of search for alternatives to systemd (that is really good). I also set up some servers, using openrc on them, so, sometimes I like to reproduce the configuration o my machine. If possible, I prefer to keep both. If not, I'll switch back to openrc. I've enable the openrc user flag, updated the system, I created a grub entrace, and everything seems to work pretty well on openrc, but I cant start the X. no screens found, but dbus, udev and consolekit are started without error. Everything is working with systemd. For server stuff, you should have no problem. If the machine where you want to have both systemd and OpenRC also works as a desktop workstation, right now that is not possible; there are several desktop packages that cannot decide at run time if they use systemd (actually, logind) or ConsoleKit (polkit being the most obvious). Are these packages essential or the like? I don't think my desktop systems have dependencies either on systemd or polkit/consolekit. What is logind used for? So you'll need to remove the systemd USE flag, add the consolekit one, and recompile the necessary packages to get back to a systemd-less desktop. Be aware that ConsoleKit is basically dead; it has no upstream, no new features are being developed for it, and I don't think even basic security bugs are actively fixed. Everything that depended on ConsoleKit has switched or is considering switching to logind, which right now is provided only by systemd (Canonical is working in an alternative implementation, and I believe some *BSD guys were also looking into the matter). When the logind alternative implementations are ready, maybe it will be possible to again boot to both OpenRC and systemd with the same binaries; right now is not possible. Regards. -- Nuno Silva (aka njsg) http://njsg.sdf-eu.org/
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Back to openrc from systemd
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 4:09 AM, Nuno Silva nunojsi...@ist.utl.pt wrote: On 2013-03-22, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 7:45 PM, João Matos jaon...@gmail.com wrote: Hi list, do you know some guide to switch form systemd to openrc, or keep both? I googled and I didn't find. The motivation is that I'm studing many server stuff, and I'm tired of search for alternatives to systemd (that is really good). I also set up some servers, using openrc on them, so, sometimes I like to reproduce the configuration o my machine. If possible, I prefer to keep both. If not, I'll switch back to openrc. I've enable the openrc user flag, updated the system, I created a grub entrace, and everything seems to work pretty well on openrc, but I cant start the X. no screens found, but dbus, udev and consolekit are started without error. Everything is working with systemd. For server stuff, you should have no problem. If the machine where you want to have both systemd and OpenRC also works as a desktop workstation, right now that is not possible; there are several desktop packages that cannot decide at run time if they use systemd (actually, logind) or ConsoleKit (polkit being the most obvious). Are these packages essential or the like? I don't think my desktop systems have dependencies either on systemd or polkit/consolekit. If you don't need user session monitoring for anything (which is what ConsoleKit and logind provides), nor interactive privilege granting (which is what polkit provides), then I believe you will have no problems switching OpenRC and systemd withouth needing to recompile anything. However, that means no upower and no udisks at least; GNOME cannot run without any of those. XFCE needs them if the udev USE flag is enabled, which is enabled by default in Gentoo desktop profiles, and in KDE the three of them are optional dependencies turned on by default. You can turn them of in XFCE and KDE, but you kinda lose functionality without them. What is logind used for? User session monitoring, as ConsoleKit did, only better: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/logind Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] Re: Back to openrc from systemd
On 2013-03-22, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 4:09 AM, Nuno Silva nunojsi...@ist.utl.pt wrote: On 2013-03-22, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 7:45 PM, João Matos jaon...@gmail.com wrote: Hi list, do you know some guide to switch form systemd to openrc, or keep both? I googled and I didn't find. The motivation is that I'm studing many server stuff, and I'm tired of search for alternatives to systemd (that is really good). I also set up some servers, using openrc on them, so, sometimes I like to reproduce the configuration o my machine. If possible, I prefer to keep both. If not, I'll switch back to openrc. I've enable the openrc user flag, updated the system, I created a grub entrace, and everything seems to work pretty well on openrc, but I cant start the X. no screens found, but dbus, udev and consolekit are started without error. Everything is working with systemd. For server stuff, you should have no problem. If the machine where you want to have both systemd and OpenRC also works as a desktop workstation, right now that is not possible; there are several desktop packages that cannot decide at run time if they use systemd (actually, logind) or ConsoleKit (polkit being the most obvious). Are these packages essential or the like? I don't think my desktop systems have dependencies either on systemd or polkit/consolekit. If you don't need user session monitoring for anything (which is what ConsoleKit and logind provides), nor interactive privilege granting (which is what polkit provides), then I believe you will have no Thanks. Now *that* is what I call explaining something in a nutshell :-) problems switching OpenRC and systemd withouth needing to recompile anything. However, that means no upower and no udisks at least; GNOME cannot run without any of those. XFCE needs them if the udev USE flag is enabled, which is enabled by default in Gentoo desktop profiles, and in KDE the three of them are optional dependencies turned on by default. You can turn them of in XFCE and KDE, but you kinda lose functionality without them. I do indeed remember having to fight the KDE use flags so that I could pull kdelibs without pulling the whole set of u* things someone decided that were required for a desktop environment (the fun thing being that I wasn't even using KDE as a DE). But I hope you don't mean the GNOME *libs* will be requiring logind/Consolekit/... in the near future? That would cause me some trouble, as I rely on evince a lot. What is logind used for? User session monitoring, as ConsoleKit did, only better: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/logind Regards. -- Nuno Silva (aka njsg) http://njsg.sdf-eu.org/
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Back to openrc from systemd
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Nuno Silva nunojsi...@ist.utl.pt wrote: On 2013-03-22, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 4:09 AM, Nuno Silva nunojsi...@ist.utl.pt wrote: On 2013-03-22, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 7:45 PM, João Matos jaon...@gmail.com wrote: Hi list, do you know some guide to switch form systemd to openrc, or keep both? I googled and I didn't find. The motivation is that I'm studing many server stuff, and I'm tired of search for alternatives to systemd (that is really good). I also set up some servers, using openrc on them, so, sometimes I like to reproduce the configuration o my machine. If possible, I prefer to keep both. If not, I'll switch back to openrc. I've enable the openrc user flag, updated the system, I created a grub entrace, and everything seems to work pretty well on openrc, but I cant start the X. no screens found, but dbus, udev and consolekit are started without error. Everything is working with systemd. For server stuff, you should have no problem. If the machine where you want to have both systemd and OpenRC also works as a desktop workstation, right now that is not possible; there are several desktop packages that cannot decide at run time if they use systemd (actually, logind) or ConsoleKit (polkit being the most obvious). Are these packages essential or the like? I don't think my desktop systems have dependencies either on systemd or polkit/consolekit. If you don't need user session monitoring for anything (which is what ConsoleKit and logind provides), nor interactive privilege granting (which is what polkit provides), then I believe you will have no Thanks. Now *that* is what I call explaining something in a nutshell :-) problems switching OpenRC and systemd withouth needing to recompile anything. However, that means no upower and no udisks at least; GNOME cannot run without any of those. XFCE needs them if the udev USE flag is enabled, which is enabled by default in Gentoo desktop profiles, and in KDE the three of them are optional dependencies turned on by default. You can turn them of in XFCE and KDE, but you kinda lose functionality without them. I do indeed remember having to fight the KDE use flags so that I could pull kdelibs without pulling the whole set of u* things someone decided that were required for a desktop environment (the fun thing being that I wasn't even using KDE as a DE). But I hope you don't mean the GNOME *libs* will be requiring logind/Consolekit/... in the near future? That would cause me some trouble, as I rely on evince a lot. No, only the core desktop, AFAIK. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Back to openrc from systemd
If you don't need user session monitoring for anything (which is what ConsoleKit and logind provides), nor interactive privilege granting (which is what polkit provides), then I believe you will have no Thanks. Now *that* is what I call explaining something in a nutshell :-) problems switching OpenRC and systemd withouth needing to recompile anything. However, that means no upower and no udisks at least; GNOME cannot run without any of those. XFCE needs them if the udev USE flag is enabled, which is enabled by default in Gentoo desktop profiles, and in KDE the three of them are optional dependencies turned on by default. You can turn them of in XFCE and KDE, but you kinda lose functionality without them. I do indeed remember having to fight the KDE use flags so that I could pull kdelibs without pulling the whole set of u* things someone decided that were required for a desktop environment (the fun thing being that I wasn't even using KDE as a DE). But I hope you don't mean the GNOME *libs* will be requiring logind/Consolekit/... in the near future? That would cause me some trouble, as I rely on evince a lot. A good overview though I don't agree with If you don't 'need' Did your desktop really fail to run at all? Why are dependencies suddenly getting a lot worse (ignoring konquerorFM without kde) when for so long dependencies were understood to be a big problem that must be fixed. It can only be bad design if a desktop does not work at all because 1% of the functionality is missing and may well have been replaced in every case above by alternative and in some cases superior (permissions) that may override others (sessions you don't use), choices of functionality. Is it really a freedesktop when almost all the rest are free-er? -- ___ 'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface' (Doug McIlroy) ___
