Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
Frank Steinmetzger wrote: On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 06:28:45PM -0500, Dale wrote: Alan Grimes wrote: The PSU is an Antec EarthWatts 750. Biggest hoggs outside the motherboard are the, um, er, well [nvidia 980 gpu] and an aging Western Digital Velociraptor boot drive. There is also a 3TB drive for all my p***, er kerbals ( Kerbal Space Program ) . It just means your P/S is running at half power most of the time. Which may be a good idea, since then it’d be running at optimum efficiency. Yep. I would not buy a P/S that didn't have at least 30 or 40% of headroom. If nothing else, as the P/S ages, it wouldn't be so stressed on those older components. Also, I would only do that if I know I won't ever add to that rig. I usually aim for half load or even a little less. I almost always end up adding something or upgrading something before I retire a system. On my current P/S, it is a 650 watt unit. According to my UPS, my entire computer system pulls about 150 watts idle and about 160 to 170 when compiling the crap out of something like GCC, Libreoffice etc. Now that includes my monitor, router, modem and speakers. If I were to guess, the puter itself only pulls around 100 to 120 watts. Getting OT here: Didn’t you say (waay back) that you run AMD? Because in that case those numbers don’t add up (they also don’t for a medium-range intel). 120 W @ idle (which in itself is a lot) and then only 30-ish more for full CPU load? I got those numbers from the UPS. Just for giggles, I disconnected my A/C, plugged the UPS into that plug and measured them with a clamp on meter at the breaker box. Doing the math, I got about the same numbers as the UPS gives me. The difference might run a night light, maybe. The most I have ever seen this system pull is about 200 watts. I think I was printing and doing some updates at the same time. I remember thinking about that being the biggest load I ever seen. Oh, my A/C is on a dedicated circuit. Nothing else is on that line. The plug the UPS usually plugs into only has my TV and some lights on it. From the UPS and confirmed by a clamp on meter just in the past few minutes. Idle: 146 watts Load, well into a gcc compile with all four cores running at close to 100% and drive activity: 186 watts Keep in mind, my A/C is off and it's warming up here. If I listen close, I can tell the fans are spinning a bit faster. Of course, it's hard to hear those huge fans. That HAF-932 is quiet but still moves a lot of air. My power supply has some overkill issues for sure. I could likely easily use a 300 watt unit but would likely replace with a 400 watt since they are more available. Technically, I could use a 200 watt if the power supply was a well built model. If only such models were actually available. The lowest value you can get in a reasonable-quality build is 300 W, which is far too much for silent, small home PCs for simple usess like office or media centre. Such mini systems barely reach 20 W. Even at full load they won’t get past 60 or 70 W. This is just at the start of the 80+ efficiency range wich begins at 20%. That was my point. Most P/Ss that are that size or smaller than that are either old or junky made. Basically, something I would not buy or recommend. Finding a quality P/S that is 350 or less would be difficult. I don't recall seeing any in a long while, not that I have actually tried to find one tho. Keep in mind, I didn't build this system to be green. When I first built this thing, I figured it would pull at least double what it actually does if not much more. My old rig pulled about 400 watts I think and it is nothing compared to the speed this rig has. While having more processing power, it sure doesn't use more energy. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 06:28:45PM -0500, Dale wrote: Alan Grimes wrote: The PSU is an Antec EarthWatts 750. Biggest hoggs outside the motherboard are the, um, er, well [nvidia 980 gpu] and an aging Western Digital Velociraptor boot drive. There is also a 3TB drive for all my p***, er kerbals ( Kerbal Space Program ) . It just means your P/S is running at half power most of the time. Which may be a good idea, since then it’d be running at optimum efficiency. On my current P/S, it is a 650 watt unit. According to my UPS, my entire computer system pulls about 150 watts idle and about 160 to 170 when compiling the crap out of something like GCC, Libreoffice etc. Now that includes my monitor, router, modem and speakers. If I were to guess, the puter itself only pulls around 100 to 120 watts. Getting OT here: Didn’t you say (waay back) that you run AMD? Because in that case those numbers don’t add up (they also don’t for a medium-range intel). 120 W @ idle (which in itself is a lot) and then only 30-ish more for full CPU load? My power supply has some overkill issues for sure. I could likely easily use a 300 watt unit but would likely replace with a 400 watt since they are more available. Technically, I could use a 200 watt if the power supply was a well built model. If only such models were actually available. The lowest value you can get in a reasonable-quality build is 300 W, which is far too much for silent, small home PCs for simple usess like office or media centre. Such mini systems barely reach 20 W. Even at full load they won’t get past 60 or 70 W. This is just at the start of the 80+ efficiency range wich begins at 20%. -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’ Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network. The problem with Perl jokes is that only the teller understands them.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:52:00 AM Alan Grimes wrote: That said, I spent the day doing diagnostics: Findings: 1. There were a hell of a lot more memory errors than I had seen before. 2. There was a smudge on one of the dimm's contacts and some of the usual dust on the CPU-facing one. 3. The motherboard was not developed by sane engineers. In a sane world, there are two types of variables: measured variables and controlled variables. The RAM voltage would appear to be a controlled variable but it is also a measured variable. In order to achieve a close approximation of 1.5v, I had to set it to 1.530 volts. WTF... 4. an AMD K10 processor cannot successfully drive 8-ranks of high density ram at 2x800 mhz -- BUT IT WILL TRY!!! I found all dimms to be good either individually or in pairs, but the entire ram compliment of four dims cannot be run at full speed at once with the CPU/motherboard I have installed. Findings 3 4 sound like a faulty or underrated PSU...or a bad motherboard. Start by unplugging everything that you don't need to boot from a live CD and run some tests. It sure does. A weak power supply will certainly cause some issues. If he can remove a few power hogs and it works, then the memory may be OK and just short on power. Plus, if the power supply is weak, that could show up in other places too. OP, maybe you should give this site a look see: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviewsop=Review_Catrecatnum=13 This one just reviewed had a perfect score, if it has enough power for what you are running. http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviewsop=Review_Catrecatnum=13 This site below lists them by wattage. They test them pretty hard too. If it isn't a well built unit, they'll find the problem. http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/589708-Recommended-PSU-s-True-Tested Hope one of those helps or maybe all of them. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
On Saturday 22 Aug 2015 09:18:05 Dale wrote: Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:52:00 AM Alan Grimes wrote: That said, I spent the day doing diagnostics: Findings: 1. There were a hell of a lot more memory errors than I had seen before. 2. There was a smudge on one of the dimm's contacts and some of the usual dust on the CPU-facing one. 3. The motherboard was not developed by sane engineers. In a sane world, there are two types of variables: measured variables and controlled variables. The RAM voltage would appear to be a controlled variable but it is also a measured variable. In order to achieve a close approximation of 1.5v, I had to set it to 1.530 volts. WTF... 4. an AMD K10 processor cannot successfully drive 8-ranks of high density ram at 2x800 mhz -- BUT IT WILL TRY!!! I found all dimms to be good either individually or in pairs, but the entire ram compliment of four dims cannot be run at full speed at once with the CPU/motherboard I have installed. Findings 3 4 sound like a faulty or underrated PSU...or a bad motherboard. Start by unplugging everything that you don't need to boot from a live CD and run some tests. It sure does. A weak power supply will certainly cause some issues. I also concur that the most likely cause of this problem is the PSU but first, I would clean the RAM contacts. Then try a replacement PSU if you have a spare one, or take your multimeter and measure the output, checking for lower voltage values and fluctuations. If you get bad measurements, then take your soldering iron out and for a few pence inspect and replace any domed, or all capacitors on the secondary (output) side. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
On 22/08/2015 13:25, Mick wrote: On Saturday 22 Aug 2015 09:18:05 Dale wrote: Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:52:00 AM Alan Grimes wrote: That said, I spent the day doing diagnostics: Findings: 1. There were a hell of a lot more memory errors than I had seen before. 2. There was a smudge on one of the dimm's contacts and some of the usual dust on the CPU-facing one. 3. The motherboard was not developed by sane engineers. In a sane world, there are two types of variables: measured variables and controlled variables. The RAM voltage would appear to be a controlled variable but it is also a measured variable. In order to achieve a close approximation of 1.5v, I had to set it to 1.530 volts. WTF... 4. an AMD K10 processor cannot successfully drive 8-ranks of high density ram at 2x800 mhz -- BUT IT WILL TRY!!! I found all dimms to be good either individually or in pairs, but the entire ram compliment of four dims cannot be run at full speed at once with the CPU/motherboard I have installed. Findings 3 4 sound like a faulty or underrated PSU...or a bad motherboard. Start by unplugging everything that you don't need to boot from a live CD and run some tests. It sure does. A weak power supply will certainly cause some issues. I also concur that the most likely cause of this problem is the PSU but first, I would clean the RAM contacts. Then try a replacement PSU if you have a spare one, or take your multimeter and measure the output, checking for lower voltage values and fluctuations. If you get bad measurements, then take your soldering iron out and for a few pence inspect and replace any domed, or all capacitors on the secondary (output) side. nitpick A multimeter is not really a valid test. If say the 5V rail is dodgy, then the output will still be a solid 5V. What's happening is that the PSU regulator circuitry can't keep up so the output averages 5V (that's what the transformer gives out) with large amounts of high-frequency ripple superimposed. Your multimeter average's that out and displays ... 5V! When things get really bad the output may dip momentarily when load is drawn, but by that stage the PSU has been struggling for a long time already. Use an oscilloscope instead, and you see immediately what condition the output is in. /nitpick Few IT techs just happen to have an expensive oscilloscope just lying around, so a good recommendation is to replace the PSU anyway every 2 years or so - more if the thing runs hot. I consider these as wearing items, sorta like oil filters -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:52:00 AM Alan Grimes wrote: J. Roeleveld wrote: Please don't bother this list with more of your complaining until you grow up and learn how to use computers properly. I built my first machine nearly a quarter century ago. =| Shame! That said, I spent the day doing diagnostics: Findings: 1. There were a hell of a lot more memory errors than I had seen before. 2. There was a smudge on one of the dimm's contacts and some of the usual dust on the CPU-facing one. 3. The motherboard was not developed by sane engineers. In a sane world, there are two types of variables: measured variables and controlled variables. The RAM voltage would appear to be a controlled variable but it is also a measured variable. In order to achieve a close approximation of 1.5v, I had to set it to 1.530 volts. WTF... 4. an AMD K10 processor cannot successfully drive 8-ranks of high density ram at 2x800 mhz -- BUT IT WILL TRY!!! I found all dimms to be good either individually or in pairs, but the entire ram compliment of four dims cannot be run at full speed at once with the CPU/motherboard I have installed. Findings 3 4 sound like a faulty or underrated PSU...or a bad motherboard. Start by unplugging everything that you don't need to boot from a live CD and run some tests. 5. I found a set of settings that went through memtest fine but caused linux to segfault and die. I backed off the FSB a few notches while adjusting the multipliers to stay within the specified frequency for the processor and it seems to be OK now. -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
On Saturday 22 Aug 2015 12:47:52 Alan McKinnon wrote: On 22/08/2015 13:25, Mick wrote: Then try a replacement PSU if you have a spare one, or take your multimeter and measure the output, checking for lower voltage values and fluctuations. If you get bad measurements, then take your soldering iron out and for a few pence inspect and replace any domed, or all capacitors on the secondary (output) side. nitpick A multimeter is not really a valid test. If say the 5V rail is dodgy, then the output will still be a solid 5V. What's happening is that the PSU regulator circuitry can't keep up so the output averages 5V (that's what the transformer gives out) with large amounts of high-frequency ripple superimposed. Your multimeter average's that out and displays ... 5V! When things get really bad the output may dip momentarily when load is drawn, but by that stage the PSU has been struggling for a long time already. Use an oscilloscope instead, and you see immediately what condition the output is in. /nitpick Valid nitpick, esp. if an oscilloscope is available. Anecdotally, I have seen the amplitude of the ripple almost double *after* a repair than before. Admittedly, I think I used a capacitor with higher voltage rating, because that's all I could find at the time. Nevertheless, the PC worked fine after the repair, because the voltage output was at the right value and would hold steady under load. BTW, I've seen voltage values look reasonable when not connected to a load and collapse when load is applied. Few IT techs just happen to have an expensive oscilloscope just lying around, so a good recommendation is to replace the PSU anyway every 2 years or so - more if the thing runs hot. I consider these as wearing items, sorta like oil filters Yes, most electrolytic capacitors 'wear out' as time passes and drift from their original tolerance, which is quite wide to start with. I have repaired half a dozen of PSUs over the years with good results and unless I have a spare PSU available I resort to replacing the capacitors. It used to be the case that PSUs with (Japanese made) Hitachi caps could be relied upon for a build, but I don't know what comes out of China today. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
Alan Grimes wrote: The PSU is an Antec EarthWatts 750. Biggest hoggs outside the motherboard are the, um, er, well [nvidia 980 gpu] and an aging Western Digital Velociraptor boot drive. There is also a 3TB drive for all my p***, er kerbals ( Kerbal Space Program ) . There is one optical drive and four chassis fans in the system. All fans are operating perfectly. As far as I know the operating conditions for the PSU are nearly ideal I did have some noise issues with it a few years ago but it seemed to settle down and hasn't really given me any grief since. That noise could be what the problem was. Just a example. A fan's bearings starts making noise. Eventually, the bearings lock up and the noise stops. Guess what, the fan has stopped too. Of course, the noise is gone now but that doesn't mean the problem is gone does it? Odds are, some component was making noise because it was under pressure or age was catching up or whatever. When the noise stopped, it had likely stopped working at all. This sounds like a capacitor to me. They will make weird noises sometimes before they fail. I used to work on TVs a lot years ago, you know, the old tube type stuff. Anyway, those caps did all sorts of weird things. Some would swell up until they were shaped like a hot air balloon or something. Some would blow out the bottom and maybe even stink real bad. I've even seen some that blew the metal can completely off and the TV is full of that sticky paper stuff, which also stinks, and the foil part. Some just smoke and make a hissing sound, then all heck breaks out in the TV. Usually it stops filtering and the rest of the TV is now getting a unfiltered DC which is about like A/C. Some components like those tubes don't like that much. They tend to revolt. FET type components, when they go, they usually go quick, with a bit of stink or smoke. Usually. Yea, I'd be looking for a new power supply. Some of those on that last link I posted aren't that expensive. Just calculate up what power you need. I tend to add at least 50% to that, for future expansion and start up power. Doubling it wouldn't hurt. It just means your P/S is running at half power most of the time. On my current P/S, it is a 650 watt unit. According to my UPS, my entire computer system pulls about 150 watts idle and about 160 to 170 when compiling the crap out of something like GCC, Libreoffice etc. Now that includes my monitor, router, modem and speakers. If I were to guess, the puter itself only pulls around 100 to 120 watts. My power supply has some overkill issues for sure. I could likely easily use a 300 watt unit but would likely replace with a 400 watt since they are more available. Technically, I could use a 200 watt if the power supply was a well built model. As it is, my power supply likely never even gets warm. Add in that it is in a Cooler Master HAF-932 case and I'm sure the fan gets bored. The key thing on power supplies. If you are going to buy cheap, buy big. Cheapos tend to overrate themselves, sometimes a LOT. If you buy a well known and well tested brand, it will likely deliver what it claims and you can pick closer to your actual ratings. Of course, that cheapo P/S will likely fail you at some point. That means risking losing a lot more than just the P/S too. It could mean a new CPU, mobo, memory and whatever else it takes with it. When cutting costs, protection is one place to do it and by the time you realize it, it's to late. I've bought cases with P/Ss built in. They get removed and disassembled for little junky projects. I mostly get heat sinks and such since most of the components aren't reliable anyway. Hope you get this fixed soon. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
On 22/08/2015 18:40, Alan Grimes wrote: The PSU is an Antec EarthWatts 750. Biggest hoggs outside the motherboard are the, um, er, well [nvidia 980 gpu] and an aging Western Digital Velociraptor boot drive. There is also a 3TB drive for all my p***, er kerbals ( Kerbal Space Program ) . There is one optical drive and four chassis fans in the system. All fans are operating perfectly. As far as I know the operating conditions for the PSU are nearly ideal I did have some noise issues with it a few years ago but it seemed to settle down and hasn't really given me any grief since. Maybe you should assume less and test more. This is good advice, replace the power supply despite your thoughts. They *are* the cost common failure item. Dale wrote: Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:52:00 AM Alan Grimes wrote: Findings 3 4 sound like a faulty or underrated PSU...or a bad motherboard. Start by unplugging everything that you don't need to boot from a live CD and run some tests. It sure does. A weak power supply will certainly cause some issues. If he can remove a few power hogs and it works, then the memory may be OK and just short on power. Plus, if the power supply is weak, that could show up in other places too. OP, maybe you should give this site a look see: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviewsop=Review_Catrecatnum=13 This one just reviewed had a perfect score, if it has enough power for what you are running. http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviewsop=Review_Catrecatnum=13 This site below lists them by wattage. They test them pretty hard too. If it isn't a well built unit, they'll find the problem. http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/589708-Recommended-PSU-s-True-Tested Hope one of those helps or maybe all of them. Dale -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
The PSU is an Antec EarthWatts 750. Biggest hoggs outside the motherboard are the, um, er, well [nvidia 980 gpu] and an aging Western Digital Velociraptor boot drive. There is also a 3TB drive for all my p***, er kerbals ( Kerbal Space Program ) . There is one optical drive and four chassis fans in the system. All fans are operating perfectly. As far as I know the operating conditions for the PSU are nearly ideal I did have some noise issues with it a few years ago but it seemed to settle down and hasn't really given me any grief since. Dale wrote: Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:52:00 AM Alan Grimes wrote: Findings 3 4 sound like a faulty or underrated PSU...or a bad motherboard. Start by unplugging everything that you don't need to boot from a live CD and run some tests. It sure does. A weak power supply will certainly cause some issues. If he can remove a few power hogs and it works, then the memory may be OK and just short on power. Plus, if the power supply is weak, that could show up in other places too. OP, maybe you should give this site a look see: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviewsop=Review_Catrecatnum=13 This one just reviewed had a perfect score, if it has enough power for what you are running. http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviewsop=Review_Catrecatnum=13 This site below lists them by wattage. They test them pretty hard too. If it isn't a well built unit, they'll find the problem. http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/589708-Recommended-PSU-s-True-Tested Hope one of those helps or maybe all of them. Dale -- IQ is a measure of how stupid you feel. Powers are not rights.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
J. Roeleveld wrote: Please don't bother this list with more of your complaining until you grow up and learn how to use computers properly. I built my first machine nearly a quarter century ago. =| That said, I spent the day doing diagnostics: Findings: 1. There were a hell of a lot more memory errors than I had seen before. 2. There was a smudge on one of the dimm's contacts and some of the usual dust on the CPU-facing one. 3. The motherboard was not developed by sane engineers. In a sane world, there are two types of variables: measured variables and controlled variables. The RAM voltage would appear to be a controlled variable but it is also a measured variable. In order to achieve a close approximation of 1.5v, I had to set it to 1.530 volts. WTF... 4. an AMD K10 processor cannot successfully drive 8-ranks of high density ram at 2x800 mhz -- BUT IT WILL TRY!!! I found all dimms to be good either individually or in pairs, but the entire ram compliment of four dims cannot be run at full speed at once with the CPU/motherboard I have installed. 5. I found a set of settings that went through memtest fine but caused linux to segfault and die. I backed off the FSB a few notches while adjusting the multipliers to stay within the specified frequency for the processor and it seems to be OK now. -- IQ is a measure of how stupid you feel. Powers are not rights.
[gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
Alan Grimes ALONZOTG at verizon.net writes: 8, got to the end of the list about two and a half days later (which is par for my machine.) Hello Alan Grimes, You seem to imply you are running hardware less that some version of the latest 4/8 processor monster? Perhaps something lighter then the kde5 for the QT family, there is lxqt(1.0) Fairly young but very fast even on older hardware. It's using QT5 so if you are 'qt centric' in your needs, then you might just like lxqt as many others do. O3 I also saw that option. On older systems, I often find that Os runs very fast, as the smaller size of the resulting binaries allows ram to function more appropriately. hth, James
[gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
On 2015-08-21, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Earlier I saw segfaults in gcc, and another poster pointed it out. When gcc segfaults, it is always suspicious mostly because the compiler is an app where we know the devs take extraordinary measures to prevent it. The most common cause is faulty hardware (most often memory) as gcc tends to use all of it in ways no other app does. The usual procedure at this point is to run memtest for an extended period - say 48 hours, or even 72 for an older slow machine. That is definitely good advice. I've run into this situation several times. A machine had bad RAM that didn't seem to cause any problems under normal operation. But, when trying to compile something large like gcc, I would see non-repeatable segfaults (it wouldn't always segfault at the exact same point). In those cases, I could often run memtest for several passes and not see an error. But, _eventually_ ramtest would catch it. Run memtest for a few days. Really. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! I'm having an at EMOTIONAL OUTBURST!! But, gmail.comuh, WHY is there a WAFFLE in my PAJAMA POCKET??
[gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
On 2015-08-21, Alan Grimes alonz...@verizon.net wrote: Grant Edwards wrote: On 2015-08-21, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Earlier I saw segfaults in gcc, and another poster pointed it out. When gcc segfaults, it is always suspicious mostly because the compiler is an app where we know the devs take extraordinary measures to prevent it. The most common cause is faulty hardware (most often memory) as gcc tends to use all of it in ways no other app does. The usual procedure at this point is to run memtest for an extended period - say 48 hours, or even 72 for an older slow machine. That is definitely good advice. I've run into this situation several times. A machine had bad RAM that didn't seem to cause any problems under normal operation. But, when trying to compile something large like gcc, I would see non-repeatable segfaults (it wouldn't always segfault at the exact same point). In those cases, I could often run memtest for several passes and not see an error. But, _eventually_ ramtest would catch it. Run memtest for a few days. Really. Yeah, I know there's a single bit error out at the end of RAM that will appear on the third or fourth pass... And you're still using it? And when it doesn't work, you blame blaming _us_? **PLONK** It just doesn't seem reasonable to demand that every bit in a 32 gigabyte memory bank be absolutely perfect Idiot. Of _course_ software expects memory to work. Why don't you stop bothering us and go write an OS that doesn't depend on RAM working properly. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! Now KEN and BARBIE at are PERMANENTLY ADDICTED to gmail.comMIND-ALTERING DRUGS ...
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
Grant Edwards wrote: On 2015-08-21, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Earlier I saw segfaults in gcc, and another poster pointed it out. When gcc segfaults, it is always suspicious mostly because the compiler is an app where we know the devs take extraordinary measures to prevent it. The most common cause is faulty hardware (most often memory) as gcc tends to use all of it in ways no other app does. The usual procedure at this point is to run memtest for an extended period - say 48 hours, or even 72 for an older slow machine. That is definitely good advice. I've run into this situation several times. A machine had bad RAM that didn't seem to cause any problems under normal operation. But, when trying to compile something large like gcc, I would see non-repeatable segfaults (it wouldn't always segfault at the exact same point). In those cases, I could often run memtest for several passes and not see an error. But, _eventually_ ramtest would catch it. Run memtest for a few days. Really. Yeah, I know there's a single bit error out at the end of RAM that will appear on the third or fourth pass... I have already RMA'd half of the ram in this machine because it was giving a whole fist-full of errors across two sticks... I run the rusty old bus on the CPU ( SIX CORES) a bit harder than it was intended in order to keep up with the new junk. My previous machine had ECC. =( I was advised to just jack the voltage a little bit and live with it. I guess I'd better run more tests and see what the situation is It just doesn't seem reasonable to demand that every bit in a 32 gigabyte memory bank be absolutely perfect -- IQ is a measure of how stupid you feel. Powers are not rights.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
On Friday, August 21, 2015 11:00:16 AM Alan Grimes wrote: Grant Edwards wrote: Yeah, I know there's a single bit error out at the end of RAM that will appear on the third or fourth pass... Replace it I have already RMA'd half of the ram in this machine because it was giving a whole fist-full of errors across two sticks... I run the rusty old bus on the CPU ( SIX CORES) a bit harder than it was intended in order to keep up with the new junk. My previous machine had ECC. =( I was advised to just jack the voltage a little bit and live with it. I guess I'd better run more tests and see what the situation is Advised by who? It just doesn't seem reasonable to demand that every bit in a 32 gigabyte memory bank be absolutely perfect I have machines with a lot more and all of them work perfectly. Please don't bother this list with more of your complaining until you grow up and learn how to use computers properly.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
Alan Grimes wrote: Grant Edwards wrote: On 2015-08-21, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Earlier I saw segfaults in gcc, and another poster pointed it out. When gcc segfaults, it is always suspicious mostly because the compiler is an app where we know the devs take extraordinary measures to prevent it. The most common cause is faulty hardware (most often memory) as gcc tends to use all of it in ways no other app does. The usual procedure at this point is to run memtest for an extended period - say 48 hours, or even 72 for an older slow machine. That is definitely good advice. I've run into this situation several times. A machine had bad RAM that didn't seem to cause any problems under normal operation. But, when trying to compile something large like gcc, I would see non-repeatable segfaults (it wouldn't always segfault at the exact same point). In those cases, I could often run memtest for several passes and not see an error. But, _eventually_ ramtest would catch it. Run memtest for a few days. Really. Yeah, I know there's a single bit error out at the end of RAM that will appear on the third or fourth pass... I have already RMA'd half of the ram in this machine because it was giving a whole fist-full of errors across two sticks... I run the rusty old bus on the CPU ( SIX CORES) a bit harder than it was intended in order to keep up with the new junk. My previous machine had ECC. =( I was advised to just jack the voltage a little bit and live with it. I guess I'd better run more tests and see what the situation is It just doesn't seem reasonable to demand that every bit in a 32 gigabyte memory bank be absolutely perfect You know those multi terabyte hard drives they make, every bit of those platters that are actively in use must work perfectly. If just one thing, just one tiny bit, is not working correctly, you get bad data. With computers, one bit of bad data means something doesn't work be it hard drives or memory or even the CPU. You may can live with it on widoze but not Linux. Linus maximizes the use of memory more so than windoze. I have 16Gbs of ram here. Even if I don't compile anything, eventually all my memory will be used by cache if nothing else. Once that cache hits a bad spot, there is trouble. Might I also add, whoever told you to live with it, I hope they don't work on airplanes and I wouldn't take advice from them to much on puter stuff in the future. Just my $0.02 worth. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
On Friday, August 21, 2015 11:00:16 AM Alan Grimes wrote: Grant Edwards wrote: On 2015-08-21, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Earlier I saw segfaults in gcc, and another poster pointed it out. When gcc segfaults, it is always suspicious mostly because the compiler is an app where we know the devs take extraordinary measures to prevent it. The most common cause is faulty hardware (most often memory) as gcc tends to use all of it in ways no other app does. The usual procedure at this point is to run memtest for an extended period - say 48 hours, or even 72 for an older slow machine. That is definitely good advice. I've run into this situation several times. A machine had bad RAM that didn't seem to cause any problems under normal operation. But, when trying to compile something large like gcc, I would see non-repeatable segfaults (it wouldn't always segfault at the exact same point). In those cases, I could often run memtest for several passes and not see an error. But, _eventually_ ramtest would catch it. Run memtest for a few days. Really. Yeah, I know there's a single bit error out at the end of RAM that will appear on the third or fourth pass... I have already RMA'd half of the ram in this machine because it was giving a whole fist-full of errors across two sticks... I run the rusty old bus on the CPU ( SIX CORES) a bit harder than it was intended in order to keep up with the new junk. My previous machine had ECC. =( I was advised to just jack the voltage a little bit and live with it. I guess I'd better run more tests and see what the situation is It just doesn't seem reasonable to demand that every bit in a 32 gigabyte memory bank be absolutely perfect LOL. It's perfectly reasonable. If it's under warranty, return it. And get a different brand cause it sounds like what you got is crap. If it's not under warranty and after running the test for an extended period as adviced you're sure that it's only a single bad bit at the highest end you can boot with the mem= option. Also see memmap and memtest. https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt -- Fernando Rodriguez
[gentoo-user] Re: Epic list of total FAIL.
On 2015-08-20, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Let me describe what I see. This can't be a clusterfuck, as it is affecting only you. No-one else to my knowledge is reporting problems caused by ncurses. So, it is then highly likely that you have a setup that the devs did not consider, and it is rare (if not unique). So, what exactly did you do to fuck your system up this badly? Don;t say I ran emerge world as lots of other people do that without issue. Before that, perhaps long ago, what did YOU do that caused this current issue? Ranting on the list might make you feel better, but is not likely to fix your problem. Just saying. In fact, the more you rant and swear and insult people, the fewer people are going to pay attention and try to help. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! Are we on STRIKE yet? at gmail.com
