Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: looking for email provider
"John Covici" , 02.02.2020, 23:58: > I do have my own server, but I have problems sending to gmail address, > I never get a bounce, but the messages disappear, maybe they are in > the senders spam folder, but I don't think so. As it happens, I've been investigating a DKIM-related problem for one of my clients (turned out that MS somehow lost a TXT record in their DNS). Since Google puts these very helpful ARC-... headers into the messages, my gmail address was the target of several empty messages from various senders with "test" as subject. Friday and Saturday, they showed up in gmail's inbox and got forwarded to my own mailbox. Sunday, they ended up gmail's spam folder, "because they were similar to several other messages that users () have classified as spam". This makes mail handling through a google account quite unreliable, especially if you happen to deal with atypical emails. s.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: looking for email provider
On Sun, 02 Feb 2020 14:24:47 -0500, Jack wrote: > > Hello Ian, > > On 2020.02.02 13:36, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > > On 2020-02-01 17:08, Jack wrote: > > > >> I'm trying to move away from gmail. Especially for mailing > >> lists like this one, if I send a message to the list, I never > >> see that I get the message from the list, because gmail > >> refuses to show it in my inbox because it's a duplicate of a > >> message already in my sentbox. > > > > >> I do have an email account with privateemail.com (thorough > >> namecheap.com) but they are unable or unwilling to have a > >> similar setup. I'm not even sure they actually understand > >> what I'm asking of them, but I've wasted more than enough time > >> trying. > > > > >> So - I'm asking if anyone can recommend an email service > >> provider that understands this and will let me set it up. > > > > For your immediate problem, my answer would depend on whether > > you're OK interacting with email entirely through the browser, > > or you are a classicist like myself and want to use a "real" > > email client like mutt or thunderbird. > I absolutely detest webmail, and use it only when absolutely > necessary, which in many cases is to look at the SPAM folder to > mark something as Not Spam. I use IMAP when I'm away from home > (set up on android phone, android tablet, and Artix Linux > laptop.) At home, I pull everything by POP3. Before a long > trip, I rsync my whole mail hierarchy from my desktop to the > laptop, in case I need to reference any older messages, although > I sometimes just go digging in the Trash folder via IMAP. > > > From your writing about gmail, I am guessing it's the former: > > you're okay with webmail. In that case, I recommend that you > > look at protonmail, tutanota and hushmail. I have used all of > > them and I still use protonmail for one of my personas :) I > > hasten to add I have _not_ checked how easy it is to mask the > > sender address at any of these. > First, I didn't choose, and do not actually like gmail. If you > don't want lots of gory details, you can skip this paragraph. > For years, I had email provided by my ISP (sbcglobal.net - not > discussing it's various sales and name changes) actually managed > by Yahoo. However, when AT sold their landline business in > Connecticut to Frontier, although my sbclobal.net addresses > didn't go away, they ended up in a sort of limbo - it became > impossible for me to get any support. If I called Yahoo, they > said to get support from AT If I called AT, as soon as they > figured out I was in Connecticut, they transferred the call to > Frontier. If I called Frontier, they wouldn't help since they > didn't control that domain. About that time, my college stopped > simply providing an email forwarding service, and provided a real > email account under the alumni subdomain of the university's > domain. Unfortunately, the actual account is gmail. Once I > realized I wanted something other than that, I bought my domain > ostroff.xyz through namecheap.com. I then set up email accounts > through their provider privateemail.com. So - my current goal is > to get my x...@ostroff.xyz email hosted somewhere else. > > > The longer view though is that this will get harder and harder, > > for the reasons other people in the thread have given. google > > and company will impose their fascist anti-spam checks and they > > will get away with it because most everyone uses google and > > company, and nobody but a few geeks cares about the corner case > > of mailing lists. > Agreed. > > > Who needs mailing lists when we have web forums? > I absolutely agree, sarcastically or not. > > This is what writers like Jon Corbet of LWN mean by "the death > > of email". And this is why, if you are one of the geeks who do > > care, the only way to prolong your life with email is to set up > > your own server. You're already halfway there as you have your > > own domain. > I suppose that is where I will eventually end up, but right now, > I'm just not up for worrying about actually running an internet > facing service. We'll see how one of the other replies to this > thread pushes in that direction. I do have my own server, but I have problems sending to gmail address, I never get a bounce, but the messages disappear, maybe they are in the senders spam folder, but I don't think so. For those messages I use the services of my incoming mail provider which protects me against incoming spam which would be massive for me, and also has an outgoing mail service which I don't like to use because of its strange mapping of its ip addresses to names, but the whole thing works after this strange fashion. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: looking for email provider
Hello Ian, On 2020.02.02 13:36, Ian Zimmerman wrote: On 2020-02-01 17:08, Jack wrote: I'm trying to move away from gmail. Especially for mailing lists like this one, if I send a message to the list, I never see that I get the message from the list, because gmail refuses to show it in my inbox because it's a duplicate of a message already in my sentbox. > I do have an email account with privateemail.com (thorough namecheap.com) but they are unable or unwilling to have a similar setup. I'm not even sure they actually understand what I'm asking of them, but I've wasted more than enough time trying. > So - I'm asking if anyone can recommend an email service provider that understands this and will let me set it up. For your immediate problem, my answer would depend on whether you're OK interacting with email entirely through the browser, or you are a classicist like myself and want to use a "real" email client like mutt or thunderbird. I absolutely detest webmail, and use it only when absolutely necessary, which in many cases is to look at the SPAM folder to mark something as Not Spam. I use IMAP when I'm away from home (set up on android phone, android tablet, and Artix Linux laptop.) At home, I pull everything by POP3. Before a long trip, I rsync my whole mail hierarchy from my desktop to the laptop, in case I need to reference any older messages, although I sometimes just go digging in the Trash folder via IMAP. From your writing about gmail, I am guessing it's the former: you're okay with webmail. In that case, I recommend that you look at protonmail, tutanota and hushmail. I have used all of them and I still use protonmail for one of my personas :) I hasten to add I have _not_ checked how easy it is to mask the sender address at any of these. First, I didn't choose, and do not actually like gmail. If you don't want lots of gory details, you can skip this paragraph. For years, I had email provided by my ISP (sbcglobal.net - not discussing it's various sales and name changes) actually managed by Yahoo. However, when AT sold their landline business in Connecticut to Frontier, although my sbclobal.net addresses didn't go away, they ended up in a sort of limbo - it became impossible for me to get any support. If I called Yahoo, they said to get support from AT If I called AT, as soon as they figured out I was in Connecticut, they transferred the call to Frontier. If I called Frontier, they wouldn't help since they didn't control that domain. About that time, my college stopped simply providing an email forwarding service, and provided a real email account under the alumni subdomain of the university's domain. Unfortunately, the actual account is gmail. Once I realized I wanted something other than that, I bought my domain ostroff.xyz through namecheap.com. I then set up email accounts through their provider privateemail.com. So - my current goal is to get my x...@ostroff.xyz email hosted somewhere else. The longer view though is that this will get harder and harder, for the reasons other people in the thread have given. google and company will impose their fascist anti-spam checks and they will get away with it because most everyone uses google and company, and nobody but a few geeks cares about the corner case of mailing lists. Agreed. Who needs mailing lists when we have web forums? I absolutely agree, sarcastically or not. This is what writers like Jon Corbet of LWN mean by "the death of email". And this is why, if you are one of the geeks who do care, the only way to prolong your life with email is to set up your own server. You're already halfway there as you have your own domain. I suppose that is where I will eventually end up, but right now, I'm just not up for worrying about actually running an internet facing service. We'll see how one of the other replies to this thread pushes in that direction. Jack
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: looking for email provider
On 2020-02-01 17:08, Jack wrote: > I'm trying to move away from gmail. Especially for mailing lists like > this one, if I send a message to the list, I never see that I get the > message from the list, because gmail refuses to show it in my inbox > because it's a duplicate of a message already in my sentbox. > > I do have an email account with privateemail.com (thorough > namecheap.com) but they are unable or unwilling to have a similar > setup. I'm not even sure they actually understand what I'm asking of > them, but I've wasted more than enough time trying. > > So - I'm asking if anyone can recommend an email service provider that > understands this and will let me set it up. For your immediate problem, my answer would depend on whether you're OK interacting with email entirely through the browser, or you are a classicist like myself and want to use a "real" email client like mutt or thunderbird. >From your writing about gmail, I am guessing it's the former: you're okay with webmail. In that case, I recommend that you look at protonmail, tutanota and hushmail. I have used all of them and I still use protonmail for one of my personas :) I hasten to add I have _not_ checked how easy it is to mask the sender address at any of these. The longer view though is that this will get harder and harder, for the reasons other people in the thread have given. google and company will impose their fascist anti-spam checks and they will get away with it because most everyone uses google and company, and nobody but a few geeks cares about the corner case of mailing lists. Who needs mailing lists when we have web forums? This is what writers like Jon Corbet of LWN mean by "the death of email". And this is why, if you are one of the geeks who do care, the only way to prolong your life with email is to set up your own server. You're already halfway there as you have your own domain. -- Ian
