Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 14:38:34 +0300 Samuli Suominen ssuomi...@gentoo.org wrote: On 03/06/14 14:30, J. Roeleveld wrote: Sounds like Samuli is being a pr*ck by forcing systemd on everyone now. A proper solution would have been to have the upower ebuild select systemd as a dependency ONLY when the systemd useflag is set. And depend on upower-pm-utils when it is not set. -- Joost First of all, you should check your tone and secondly, you are clearly not understanding the situation as you are oversimplifying a complex situation. For example, Xfce works on non-systemd systems with any of these UPower versions, so forcing upower-pm-utils with USE=-systemd would simply be bogus. It is simply not true. I use xfce and still I could not update my world just because some systemd-dependent guys think that they can force everybody else to use it. If you are looking for a system that decides everything for you, and doesn't give you options what to install, you are propably better off using some binary distribution with smaller set of possibilities. I look for the system that can clearly update itself, not trying to sell me something that I do not need after I have clearly decided for the default package before.
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Sat, 7 Jun 2014 11:32:00 +0300 Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 14:38:34 +0300 Samuli Suominen ssuomi...@gentoo.org wrote: On 03/06/14 14:30, J. Roeleveld wrote: Sounds like Samuli is being a pr*ck by forcing systemd on everyone now. A proper solution would have been to have the upower ebuild select systemd as a dependency ONLY when the systemd useflag is set. And depend on upower-pm-utils when it is not set. -- Joost First of all, you should check your tone and secondly, you are clearly not understanding the situation as you are oversimplifying a complex situation. For example, Xfce works on non-systemd systems with any of these UPower versions, so forcing upower-pm-utils with USE=-systemd would simply be bogus. It is simply not true. I use xfce and still I could not update my world just because some systemd-dependent guys think that they can force everybody else to use it. Please try to understand the situation before blaming any parties; systemd-dependent guys haven't even been involved in all of this, so, I'm not sure how you can perceive this as a matter of force by them. It is a logical consequence of pm-utils' end-of-development life cycle. If you are looking for a system that decides everything for you, and doesn't give you options what to install, you are propably better off using some binary distribution with smaller set of possibilities. I look for the system that can clearly update itself, not trying to sell me something that I do not need after I have clearly decided for the default package before. The system is selling you a choice; pick one or the other, it's not a merge systemd but rather a block systemd against the other choice. The system cannot merge something until you make that choice; if you are looking for a distribution that can update itself, Gentoo might not be the right distribution for you as it is all about providing choice. Compare this to other distributions which make the choices for you; interesting to note, a lot of those distributions picked systemd, instead of it being forced Gentoo actually blocks it for you to choose. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
Howdy, Just wanted to make sure I read the change logs shown below correctly. So far, I've been using sys-power/upower. Attempting to update sys-power/upower seems to require sys-apps/systemd to be pulled in as a dependency, which I don't want to do. If I understand the change log below correctly, I should uninstall sys-power/upower and install sys-power/upower-pm-utils instead. Is that right? Thanks. equery c sys-power/upower-pm-utils *upower-pm-utils-0.9.23 (26 May 2014) 26 May 2014; Samuli Suominen ssuomi...@gentoo.org +upower-pm-utils-0.9.23.ebuild, +files/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-clamp_percentage_for_overfull_batt.patch, +files/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-create-dir-runtime.patch, +files/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-fix-segfault.patch: Initial commit of upower 0.9 git branch for use with sys-power/pm-utils because upower master git branch removed support for it. Right now this is a copy of =sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r2 without USE=systemd because sys-apps/systemd users will be moving to =sys-power/upower-0.99. equery c sys-power/upower|sed -n '1,/instead/p' *upower-0.9.23-r3 (02 Jun 2014) 02 Jun 2014; Samuli Suominen ssuomi...@gentoo.org +upower-0.9.23-r3.ebuild: Leave 0.9.23-r3 with --disable-deprecated for sys-apps/systemd users. Users who want UPower with sys-power/pm-utils support will want to emerge =sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23 instead.
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tuesday, June 03, 2014 11:59:07 AM Alexander Kapshuk wrote: Howdy, Just wanted to make sure I read the change logs shown below correctly. So far, I've been using sys-power/upower. Attempting to update sys-power/upower seems to require sys-apps/systemd to be pulled in as a dependency, which I don't want to do. If I understand the change log below correctly, I should uninstall sys-power/upower and install sys-power/upower-pm-utils instead. Is that right? Thanks. equery c sys-power/upower-pm-utils *upower-pm-utils-0.9.23 (26 May 2014) 26 May 2014; Samuli Suominen ssuomi...@gentoo.org +upower-pm-utils-0.9.23.ebuild, +files/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-clamp_percentage_for_overfull_batt.patch, +files/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-create-dir-runtime.patch, +files/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-fix-segfault.patch: Initial commit of upower 0.9 git branch for use with sys-power/pm-utils because upower master git branch removed support for it. Right now this is a copy of =sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r2 without USE=systemd because sys-apps/systemd users will be moving to =sys-power/upower-0.99. equery c sys-power/upower|sed -n '1,/instead/p' *upower-0.9.23-r3 (02 Jun 2014) 02 Jun 2014; Samuli Suominen ssuomi...@gentoo.org +upower-0.9.23-r3.ebuild: Leave 0.9.23-r3 with --disable-deprecated for sys-apps/systemd users. Users who want UPower with sys-power/pm-utils support will want to emerge =sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23 instead. Sounds like Samuli is being a pr*ck by forcing systemd on everyone now. A proper solution would have been to have the upower ebuild select systemd as a dependency ONLY when the systemd useflag is set. And depend on upower-pm-utils when it is not set. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 11:30:11 + J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: Sounds like Samuli is being a pr*ck by forcing systemd on everyone now. Which is a lot better than to have it break by the lack thereof. A proper solution would have been to have the upower ebuild select systemd as a dependency ONLY when the systemd useflag is set. And who is going to maintain all that. And depend on upower-pm-utils when it is not set. The usage of a USE flag should not control runtime dependencies when the package does not link to it. Doing so will create extra configuration for the package and re-compilation for no underlying file change on disk. This should be avoided and instead can be conveyed to the user via post install messages if needed. http://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/use-flags -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tuesday, June 03, 2014 11:39:39 AM Tom Wijsman wrote: On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 11:30:11 + J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: Sounds like Samuli is being a pr*ck by forcing systemd on everyone now. Which is a lot better than to have it break by the lack thereof. A proper solution would have been to have the upower ebuild select systemd as a dependency ONLY when the systemd useflag is set. And who is going to maintain all that. And depend on upower-pm-utils when it is not set. The usage of a USE flag should not control runtime dependencies when the package does not link to it. Doing so will create extra configuration for the package and re-compilation for no underlying file change on disk. This should be avoided and instead can be conveyed to the user via post install messages if needed. http://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/use-flags Then the dependencies should have been fixed prior to making this stable. I do not use Gnome and don't want systemd. I use KDE, which does not depend on systemd. Some of the packages, however, do depend on upower. Supposedly these would work the upower-pm-utils. I would expect the dependency to be fixed before marking this stable or the solution I mentioned to be implemented. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tuesday 03 June 2014 11:48:22 J. Roeleveld wrote: Then the dependencies should have been fixed prior to making this stable. Actually, though it may be marked as stable, it isn't, by which I mean that I can't emerge -uaDvN world today - I get udev and systemd blocking each other. I ran another sync and tried again, but that wasn't the cause. Usually I fix blockages like this by removing the offending package and updating world, but that didn't help here. To be specific, this is what I did: 1. emerge -C sys-fs/udev-212 virtual/libgudev virtual/udev virtual/libudev sys-power/upower 2. added -systemd to make.conf USE flags 3. emerge -uaDvN world 4. got these blocks (I've switched word-wrap off for this): [blocks B ] sys-fs/udev (sys-fs/udev is blocking sys-apps/systemd-212-r5, sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-4) [blocks B ] sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration (sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration is blocking sys-fs/udev-212-r1) [blocks B ] sys-apps/systemd (sys-apps/systemd is blocking sys-fs/udev-212-r1) Total: 17 packages (4 upgrades, 11 new, 1 in new slot, 1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 149,100 kB Conflict: 3 blocks (3 unsatisfied) * Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be * installed at the same time on the same system. (sys-fs/udev-212-r1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by =sys-fs/udev-208-r1:0/0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,gudev,introspection?,static-libs?] (=sys-fs/udev-208-r1:0/0[abi_x86_64(-),gudev]) required by (virtual/libgudev-208::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) =sys-fs/udev-208 required by (virtual/udev-208-r2::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) =sys-fs/udev-208:0/0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,static-libs?] (=sys-fs/udev-208:0/0[abi_x86_64(-)]) required by (virtual/libudev-208::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) (sys-apps/systemd-212-r5::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by =sys-apps/systemd-200 required by (sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) =sys-apps/systemd-207 required by (sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-4::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) Looks like there are still a few wrinkles to sort out yet. -- Regards Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 7:30 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On Tuesday, June 03, 2014 11:59:07 AM Alexander Kapshuk wrote: Just wanted to make sure I read the change logs shown below correctly. So far, I've been using sys-power/upower. Attempting to update sys-power/upower seems to require sys-apps/systemd to be pulled in as a dependency, which I don't want to do. If I understand the change log below correctly, I should uninstall sys-power/upower and install sys-power/upower-pm-utils instead. Is that right? Thanks. Sounds like Samuli is being a pr*ck by forcing systemd on everyone now. A proper solution would have been to have the upower ebuild select systemd as a dependency ONLY when the systemd useflag is set. And depend on upower-pm-utils when it is not set. Sounds like the original poster had the right answer. Starting a systemd flamewar is not helpful. emerge -1 sys-power/upower-pm-utils should fix this. However, this probably should have been a news item before going into the stable tree... Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
It is marked stable. Otherwise it wouldn't cause blockers because it attempts to force an installation of systemd. -- Joost On 3 June 2014 12:06:26 CEST, Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk wrote: On Tuesday 03 June 2014 11:48:22 J. Roeleveld wrote: Then the dependencies should have been fixed prior to making this stable. Actually, though it may be marked as stable, it isn't, by which I mean that I can't emerge -uaDvN world today - I get udev and systemd blocking each other. I ran another sync and tried again, but that wasn't the cause. Usually I fix blockages like this by removing the offending package and updating world, but that didn't help here. To be specific, this is what I did: 1. emerge -C sys-fs/udev-212 virtual/libgudev virtual/udev virtual/libudev sys-power/upower 2. added -systemd to make.conf USE flags 3. emerge -uaDvN world 4. got these blocks (I've switched word-wrap off for this): [blocks B ] sys-fs/udev (sys-fs/udev is blocking sys-apps/systemd-212-r5, sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-4) [blocks B ] sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration (sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration is blocking sys-fs/udev-212-r1) [blocks B ] sys-apps/systemd (sys-apps/systemd is blocking sys-fs/udev-212-r1) Total: 17 packages (4 upgrades, 11 new, 1 in new slot, 1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 149,100 kB Conflict: 3 blocks (3 unsatisfied) * Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be * installed at the same time on the same system. (sys-fs/udev-212-r1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by =sys-fs/udev-208-r1:0/0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,gudev,introspection?,static-libs?] (=sys-fs/udev-208-r1:0/0[abi_x86_64(-),gudev]) required by (virtual/libgudev-208::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) =sys-fs/udev-208 required by (virtual/udev-208-r2::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) =sys-fs/udev-208:0/0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,static-libs?] (=sys-fs/udev-208:0/0[abi_x86_64(-)]) required by (virtual/libudev-208::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) (sys-apps/systemd-212-r5::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by =sys-apps/systemd-200 required by (sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) =sys-apps/systemd-207 required by (sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-4::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) Looks like there are still a few wrinkles to sort out yet. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 7:13 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: It is marked stable. Otherwise it wouldn't cause blockers because it attempts to force an installation of systemd. The issue isn't really that upower requires systemd so much as that portage can't figure out that it makes more sense in this case to switch to upower-pm-utils. Sure, you could satisfy the dependency graph by switching from udev to systemd, but portage doesn't have any way to know that doing this is a huge change to the system vs just switching to the alternative upower. It is just trying to find a set of packages that satisfy the dependencies and the solution it settled on works, and is the preferred solution since kdelibs lists upower first. The real solution here is better communication. There is a blurb going into the next GMN, but it doesn't mention stable users, and obviously the timing isn't right. Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On 03/06/14 14:30, J. Roeleveld wrote: Sounds like Samuli is being a pr*ck by forcing systemd on everyone now. A proper solution would have been to have the upower ebuild select systemd as a dependency ONLY when the systemd useflag is set. And depend on upower-pm-utils when it is not set. -- Joost First of all, you should check your tone and secondly, you are clearly not understanding the situation as you are oversimplifying a complex situation. For example, Xfce works on non-systemd systems with any of these UPower versions, so forcing upower-pm-utils with USE=-systemd would simply be bogus. If you are looking for a system that decides everything for you, and doesn't give you options what to install, you are propably better off using some binary distribution with smaller set of possibilities.
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On 03/06/14 14:48, J. Roeleveld wrote: Then the dependencies should have been fixed prior to making this stable. And that's exactly what happened.
[gentoo-user] Re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tue, 3 Jun 2014 07:19:00 -0400 Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote: On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 7:30 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On Tuesday, June 03, 2014 11:59:07 AM Alexander Kapshuk wrote: Just wanted to make sure I read the change logs shown below correctly. So far, I've been using sys-power/upower. Attempting to update sys-power/upower seems to require sys-apps/systemd to be pulled in as a dependency, which I don't want to do. If I understand the change log below correctly, I should uninstall sys-power/upower and install sys-power/upower-pm-utils instead. Is that right? Thanks. emerge -1 sys-power/upower-pm-utils should fix this. On my system, using -1 would lead to it being cleaned by --depclean eventually. kdelibs has an optional (USE flag-controlled) dependency on upower, but not on upower-pm-utils. But upower-pm-utils does seem to be a drop-in replacement for upower, as far as KDE is concerned. However, this probably should have been a news item before going into the stable tree... That would have been nice.
[gentoo-user] Re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 11:30:11 + J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: Sounds like Samuli is being a pr*ck by forcing systemd on everyone now. AIUI from https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-992290.html, no one is maintaining systemd-independent power management anywhere upstream any more. As of now, the upower 0.9 git branch still serves non-systemd users, but without any guarantee that will continue. Meanwhile, Samuli is giving us udev without systemd, not something he'd spend his time on if his goal were to force systemd on everyone.
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On 06/03/2014 02:19 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: Sounds like the original poster had the right answer. Starting a systemd flamewar is not helpful. emerge -1 sys-power/upower-pm-utils should fix this. However, this probably should have been a news item before going into the stable tree... Rich Thanks for your reply. Quick question though. What's the benefit of using '-1' there? So the package doesn't get added to the world list? Or are there some extra benefits? Thanks.
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 18:26:48 +0300, Alexander Kapshuk wrote: Quick question though. What's the benefit of using '-1' there? So the package doesn't get added to the world list? Or are there some extra benefits? That is more than sufficient benefit. Having upower-pm-utils in @world could cause problems later on. For example, if you later decide to switch to systemd, you'll get a blocker on upower because upower-pm-utils is in @world. @world should contain only what YOU use, anything else is a dependency and should be left to portage to handle. -- Neil Bothwick RAM = Rarely Adequate Memory signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On 06/03/2014 06:46 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 18:26:48 +0300, Alexander Kapshuk wrote: Quick question though. What's the benefit of using '-1' there? So the package doesn't get added to the world list? Or are there some extra benefits? That is more than sufficient benefit. Having upower-pm-utils in @world could cause problems later on. For example, if you later decide to switch to systemd, you'll get a blocker on upower because upower-pm-utils is in @world. @world should contain only what YOU use, anything else is a dependency and should be left to portage to handle. Understood. Thanks.
