Re: FeatureRequest Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Hi, Am Sonntag, 10. Jun 2007, 15:06:03 -0500 schrieb Karl Haines: Color is pretty ;) lol. It makes things interesting! I agree however that there might need to be some way to turn it off easily. As far as I see, most e* tools respond on an appended |cat or have at least a non-color option. Ok, still there are cursor positioning sequences. I tried to switch them off; I managed to do this only by modifing /sbin/functions.sh. Further, when I give the --nocolor option to an init script only the second line of those below will lose its colour, the first one still appears in green and blue. * Caching service dependencies ... * [ ok ] * Setting clock via the NTP client 'ntpdate' ... * [ ok ] Some time ago I happened to write an equery redesign in Ruby, just for fun. It's far from perfect but it definitely won't output any colors if you don't want them. Of course, init scripts are more difficult to handle because they are written in Bash. In case anyone finds the project is worth being pursued, here's the code: http://www.bertram-scharpf.de/tmp/equery.rb Bertram -- Bertram Scharpf Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany http://www.bertram-scharpf.de -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
FeatureRequest Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Am 04.04.2007 um 06:17 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Why do --nocolor and --color=n not work (sys-apps/portage-2.1.2.3)? Why does the damned thing default to thinking I want blaring bizarre colors scattered all over my screen? I fully agree! But not only for portage (emerge) but for the whole system. Today I fought with a shell script: #! /bin/bash restart_result=`/etc/init.d/boinc restart /usr/bin/echo -e $restart_result | /root/bin/mail check chroots cron-Oberon and no simpe way to switch color and other ANSI Sequences to off exept by a regular expression. bash color can sometimes be evil ;) Robert ;););) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: FeatureRequest Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Color is pretty ;) lol. It makes things interesting! I agree however that there might need to be some way to turn it off easily. Robert Welz wrote: Am 04.04.2007 um 06:17 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Why do --nocolor and --color=n not work (sys-apps/portage-2.1.2.3)? Why does the damned thing default to thinking I want blaring bizarre colors scattered all over my screen? I fully agree! But not only for portage (emerge) but for the whole system. Today I fought with a shell script: #! /bin/bash restart_result=`/etc/init.d/boinc restart /usr/bin/echo -e $restart_result | /root/bin/mail check chroots cron-Oberon and no simpe way to switch color and other ANSI Sequences to off exept by a regular expression. bash color can sometimes be evil ;) Robert ;););) - -- Karl Haines (615)686-5043 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://karlhaines.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGbFmrU1ENKPO6eeYRAtECAJ9fqfpnSaTCY5CislJpBSC8M31i7ACgucVS WqCGl3iSS/dCskM2CuKzX1I= =GEtM -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: FeatureRequest Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Sunday 10 June 2007, Karl Haines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about 'Re: FeatureRequest Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?': Color is pretty ;) lol. It makes things interesting! I agree however that there might need to be some way to turn it off easily. It should also be turned off by default for anything that's not a terminal. or a terminal whose termcap/terminfo/etc. doesn't support the ANSI color feature. One of the most annoying things I've ever seen is ANSI escape codes in emails and/or log files. Gentoo is fairly good about that now, but I'm still having problem with RoR misbehaving in this way. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: FeatureRequest Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On 6/10/07, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 10 June 2007, Karl Haines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about 'Re: FeatureRequest Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?': Color is pretty ;) lol. It makes things interesting! I agree however that there might need to be some way to turn it off easily. It should also be turned off by default for anything that's not a terminal. or a terminal whose termcap/terminfo/etc. doesn't support the ANSI color feature. One of the most annoying things I've ever seen is ANSI escape codes in emails and/or log files. Gentoo is fairly good about that now, but I'm still having problem with RoR misbehaving in this way. I also dislike the colorization, but for a more specific reason. Gentoo seems to assume one is using white on black rather than the default black on white in terminal windows. This makes yellow lettering entirely unreadable to me. If I could just change all occurrences of yellow to orange (otherwise not much used) I'd probably not mind so much, but the entire scheme seems to be hard-coded. And I don't like white-on-black even though it's labelled Linux console in Konsole. ++ kevin -- Kevin O'Gorman, PhD -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: FeatureRequest Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
I also dislike the colorization, but for a more specific reason. Gentoo seems to assume one is using white on black rather than the default black on white in terminal windows. This makes yellow lettering entirely unreadable to me. If I could just change all occurrences of yellow to orange (otherwise not much used) I'd probably not mind so much, but the entire scheme seems to be hard-coded. And I don't like white-on-black even though it's labelled Linux console in Konsole. I don't know if this was mentioned before and if it will fit your needs, but you can change the default colors of portage-output with /etc/portage/color.map. Take a look here: http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20060918-newsletter.xml http://gentoo-wiki.com/TIP_Remap_Portage_Colors -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: FeatureRequest Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Kevin O'Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I also dislike the colorization, but for a more specific reason. Gentoo seems to assume one is using white on black rather than the default black on white in terminal windows. This makes yellow lettering entirely unreadable to me. If I could just change all occurrences of yellow to orange (otherwise not much used) I'd probably not mind so much, but the entire scheme seems to be hard-coded. And I don't like white-on-black even though it's labelled Linux console in Konsole. Maybe it should do something similar to emacs and automatically use a different colour scheme depending on whether the terminal is 'dark on light' or 'light on dark'. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: FeatureRequest Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kevin O'Gorman wrote: On 6/10/07, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 10 June 2007, Karl Haines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about 'Re: FeatureRequest Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?': Color is pretty ;) lol. It makes things interesting! I agree however that there might need to be some way to turn it off easily. It should also be turned off by default for anything that's not a terminal. or a terminal whose termcap/terminfo/etc. doesn't support the ANSI color feature. One of the most annoying things I've ever seen is ANSI escape codes in emails and/or log files. Gentoo is fairly good about that now, but I'm still having problem with RoR misbehaving in this way. I also dislike the colorization, but for a more specific reason. Gentoo seems to assume one is using white on black rather than the default black on white in terminal windows. This makes yellow lettering entirely unreadable to me. If I could just change all occurrences of yellow to orange (otherwise not much used) I'd probably not mind so much, but the entire scheme seems to be hard-coded. And I don't like white-on-black even though it's labelled Linux console in Konsole. ++ kevin I agree with this also, when using a term window in gnome, kde, etc, the default is always black on white. I always go and change that right off the bat. Ah, well. Gentoo is still the best, lets make it better! - -- Karl Haines (615)686-5043 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://karlhaines.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGbMQZU1ENKPO6eeYRAjykAJ4wPk9GNe1v1BV+qLuZl6I/AtAVcQCg2+zm LUneF8QmlVqRtYRxYg9CvlY= =k57c -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Go back to using Solaris ya old fart! ;) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 07:36:49AM +0200, Bo ?rsted Andresen wrote: Weren't you talking about portage? In that case you should obviously file it against portage.. But yeah, any app that has a --nocolor equivalent that doesn't work deserves a bug report.. Even for apps that don't it's reasonable to file it as an enhancement request. Oh for pete's sake, don't be so literal. Esearch has screwed up. Emerge has screwed up. Revdep-rebuild has screwed up. Stop reading the leaves on the trees and paya ttention to the forest. Your quibbly attitude is exactly the petulant behavior which makes me not want to waste my time filing bug reports on somebody's pet eye candy. First of all I believe most people (including myself) very much prefer colors over no colors (no I cannot qualify with any numbers..). That does not, however, mean that the pipe detection and --color switch etc. shouldn't be honoured. It should (and it does here). Secondly, how did you come up with the idea that a bug report would be dismissed if you never filed one? The UNIX standard for ages has been simple text output. Why must gentoo add trendy colors which change every time some eye candy fanatic gets a bug up his butt to change colors when he gets bored with the old fashioned colors? the default ought to be colors OFF and you have to ask to get them. I choose fonts small enough to get maximum density with minimum eye strain. The only way I could read these colors would be to increase the font size and decrease the density. If gentoo developers think that a wise trade off when almost no other utility uses colors so much and so horribly, then gentoo is broken by design and no amount of bug reportage will change a damned thing. Harmony is a nice design feature. You ought to try it sometime. As long as I am ranting, I may as well throw in a few rants on the amateur kids who run gentoo; those who think the world should be thankful for their color choices are the same idiots who linked ls against a /usr/lib library and made my system ubootable, who removed libraries which LVM linked against during boot and made my system unbootable. Gentoo has good points, starting with portage, but it also has innumerable insufferable knowitalls who make me gnash my teeth at their inconsiderate unthinking fad-of-the-week behavior. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 19:25:03 -0400 David Relson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 17:56:21 +0100 Neil Bothwick wrote: Hello Dan Farrell, Unfortunately, everything above syl.claws 2.4 is masked testing on x86_64, and I don't want to get my hands dirty on this one. Perhaps one day... The problem here is that Claws development is proceeding so quickly that no ebuild gets to spend the normal 30 days in testing before a new Claws release. Having said that, I've never had a problem with the testing ebuilds (they are still for stable Claws releases) on amd64 or ppc. Dan, I used Sylpheed-Claws for several years, with the past 6 months being on Gentoo. Given the still rapid pace of claws' development (as Neil mentions), the only way to have new features and fixes for old is to turn on ~x86. Even though officially experimental, the releases are all very, very usable. My recommendation is to add mail-client/claws-mail to package.keywords and run the latest version of claws-mail. You'll end up with a good program that, if not perfect, is 99.9% perfect :- Regards, David All right, fine. You've convinced me ; ) - Dan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Hello Dan Farrell, Hey tony, maybe this is beyond your control, or maybe you don't care, and if not i respect your autonomy in such matters, but your reply block punctuation character '|' defeats the very helpful colorization of my and many other browsers that use the usual '' character to identify reply text. It makes your letters nearly unreadable. respects, - dan I too use Claws Mail and | is correctly identified as a quote marker here. It's been like that for as long as I can remember, even as far back as the old version you are using :) -- Neil Bothwick The program is absolutely right; therefore, the computer must be wrong. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 09:36:20 +0100 Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Dan Farrell, Hey tony, maybe this is beyond your control, or maybe you don't care, and if not i respect your autonomy in such matters, but your reply block punctuation character '|' defeats the very helpful colorization of my and many other browsers that use the usual '' character to identify reply text. It makes your letters nearly unreadable. respects, - dan I too use Claws Mail and | is correctly identified as a quote marker here. It's been like that for as long as I can remember, even as far back as the old version you are using :) I had to manually add it to the reply character enumeration. Unfortunately, everything above syl.claws 2.4 is masked testing on x86_64, and I don't want to get my hands dirty on this one. Perhaps one day... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Hello Dan Farrell, Unfortunately, everything above syl.claws 2.4 is masked testing on x86_64, and I don't want to get my hands dirty on this one. Perhaps one day... The problem here is that Claws development is proceeding so quickly that no ebuild gets to spend the normal 30 days in testing before a new Claws release. Having said that, I've never had a problem with the testing ebuilds (they are still for stable Claws releases) on amd64 or ppc. -- Neil Bothwick It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 17:56:21 +0100 Neil Bothwick wrote: Hello Dan Farrell, Unfortunately, everything above syl.claws 2.4 is masked testing on x86_64, and I don't want to get my hands dirty on this one. Perhaps one day... The problem here is that Claws development is proceeding so quickly that no ebuild gets to spend the normal 30 days in testing before a new Claws release. Having said that, I've never had a problem with the testing ebuilds (they are still for stable Claws releases) on amd64 or ppc. Dan, I used Sylpheed-Claws for several years, with the past 6 months being on Gentoo. Given the still rapid pace of claws' development (as Neil mentions), the only way to have new features and fixes for old is to turn on ~x86. Even though officially experimental, the releases are all very, very usable. My recommendation is to add mail-client/claws-mail to package.keywords and run the latest version of claws-mail. You'll end up with a good program that, if not perfect, is 99.9% perfect :- Regards, David -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 21:07:02 +0200 Tony Stohne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mick said the following on 2007-04-05 19:07: | ... | Hmm, neither less not cat give me color output. Passing --color=y to either | tells me things like: | == | There is no color=y option (less --help for help) | == | | I also tried --color but it's all still shown in black white. How do you | pipe a file and get it to show in color? Am I missing something in | my .bashrc or elsewhere? To make less interpret color escape sequences, you need the -R option. export LESS=-R in your shell startup script and you-ll have it as default. Generally, you don't want to use less -r, which allows arbitrary control characters through to affect the terminal (which tend to create major garbage). Color is added via ANSI escape sequences, which don't work in all displays/terminals/consoles, but as an example: grep is smart enough to detect this and won't use color (even when specified) if you're sending the output via a pipeline. Otherwise, if you piped the output, eg to less, the ANSI escape sequences would send garbage to the screen. ~ If, on the other hand, that's really what you want to do (without the garbage), there's a workaround: use the --color=always to force it through and call less with the -R flag (which prints ALL RAW control characters). That way, the color codes will escape correctly and you'll page through screens of text with your matched patterns in full color: grep --color=always regexp the_file_you_want_to_wade_through | less -R That should do the trick :) //Regards Tony PS. Have a nice Easter everyone! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQFGFUjWJDzv6DN+QUkRArevAKDoe0VND3TXj0o0kV3KkrD7cwPmBgCfUF27 VgMOQFi+i5rwL2p0rpljZ70= =w/na -END PGP SIGNATURE- Hey tony, maybe this is beyond your control, or maybe you don't care, and if not i respect your autonomy in such matters, but your reply block punctuation character '|' defeats the very helpful colorization of my and many other browsers that use the usual '' character to identify reply text. It makes your letters nearly unreadable. respects, - dan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Dan Farrell said the following on 2007-04-07 19:26: Hey tony, maybe this is beyond your control, or maybe you don't care, and if not i respect your autonomy in such matters, but your reply block punctuation character '|' defeats the very helpful colorization of my and many other browsers that use the usual '' character to identify reply text. It makes your letters nearly unreadable. respects, - dan I'm sorry about that. I think it has to do with the GnuPG/Enigmail installation on this box. I'll try to fix it in some way. Thus, this mail is unsigned, while I'm trying to find the reason. //T -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
W.Kenworthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What I would like to know is why less in a console does give colour syntax highlighting, but does NOT do so in any of the X terminals Ive tried ... Or why when run in a console the output stays on the screen when you exit less, thus allowing you to refer to it when typing the next command, but in an X terminal it 'collapses' to just the command prompt on exit. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Hello Graham Murray, Or why when run in a console the output stays on the screen when you exit less, thus allowing you to refer to it when typing the next command, but in an X terminal it 'collapses' to just the command prompt on exit. That one was enough to get me to switch from less to most, although that has its limitations too :( -- Neil Bothwick Scrotum is a small planet near Uranus. True/False? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Graham Murray wrote: Or why when run in a console the output stays on the screen when you exit less, thus allowing you to refer to it when typing the next command, but in an X terminal it 'collapses' to just the command prompt on exit. If you want the VT behaviour also in X, then alias less to 'TERM=linux less'. (There's probably a better way, but this works.) Benno -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007, Benno Schulenberg wrote: Graham Murray wrote: Or why when run in a console the output stays on the screen when you exit less, thus allowing you to refer to it when typing the next command, but in an X terminal it 'collapses' to just the command prompt on exit. If you want the VT behaviour also in X, then alias less to 'TERM=linux less'. (There's probably a better way, but this works.) 'less -X' works when I try it. -- Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC.http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Thursday 05 April 2007 19:07:33 Mick wrote: Not really. Just use --color=y if you want colors through a pipe. Hmm, neither less not cat give me color output. Passing --color=y to either tells me things like: --color=y was for emerge to enable colors through a pipe. less needs -R to show them. -- Bo Andresen pgpxr4fWqol8r.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Thursday 05 April 2007 20:07, Tony Stohne wrote: Mick said the following on 2007-04-05 19:07: | ... | Hmm, neither less not cat give me color output. Passing --color=y to either | tells me things like: | == | There is no color=y option (less --help for help) | == | | I also tried --color but it's all still shown in black white. How do you | pipe a file and get it to show in color? Am I missing something in | my .bashrc or elsewhere? To make less interpret color escape sequences, you need the -R option. export LESS=-R in your shell startup script and you-ll have it as default. Generally, you don't want to use less -r, which allows arbitrary control characters through to affect the terminal (which tend to create major garbage). Color is added via ANSI escape sequences, which don't work in all displays/terminals/consoles, but as an example: grep is smart enough to detect this and won't use color (even when specified) if you're sending the output via a pipeline. Otherwise, if you piped the output, eg to less, the ANSI escape sequences would send garbage to the screen. ~ If, on the other hand, that's really what you want to do (without the garbage), there's a workaround: use the --color=always to force it through and call less with the -R flag (which prints ALL RAW control characters). That way, the color codes will escape correctly and you'll page through screens of text with your matched patterns in full color: grep --color=always regexp the_file_you_want_to_wade_through | less -R That should do the trick :) Thank you Tony, That's good. It shows the regexp in colour and makes it easy to find amidst the text. However, what I had in mind was many different colours, like I can see e.g. in vim? Is such a thing possible with cat or less? BTW, I had alias less=less -r in my .bashrc, but changed to -R as suggested. Happy Easter to All! -- Regards, Mick pgpgyxGMzC2RU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Friday 06 April 2007 12:06, Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote: --color=y was for emerge to enable colors through a pipe. less needs -R to show them. I'm coming to the conclusion that something must be amiss in my set up because with or without -R, less shows black white content only. This is an extract of my .bashrc: # /etc/skel/.bashrc: # $Header: /home/cvsroot/gentoo-src/rc-scripts/etc/skel/.bashrc,v 1.8 2003/02/28 15:45:35 azarah Exp $ # This file is sourced by all *interactive* bash shells on startup. This # file *should generate no output* or it will break the scp and rcp commands. # colors for ls, etc. eval `dircolors -b /etc/DIR_COLORS` alias d=ls --color alias ls=ls --color=auto alias ll=ls --color -l alias cp=cp -iv alias mv=mv -iv alias rm=rm -iv alias grep='grep --color=auto' #alias less=less -R alias diff=colordiff Any ideas? -- Regards, Mick pgpJD6YWiOBxP.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mick said the following on 2007-04-06 17:44: | ... | That's good. It shows the regexp in colour and makes it easy to find amidst | the text. However, what I had in mind was many different colours, like I can | see e.g. in vim? Is such a thing possible with cat or less? | Not as far as I know, but maybe someone with more xpertise can enlighten us on this. //T -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQFGFpLHJDzv6DN+QUkRAmOkAJ9/ideH3UiJ7JJmyzESqDoXsphRsQCg/BsF 3Ant6J2Vk6docG2yX4if83w= =D3dB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Hi, Am Dienstag, 03. Apr 2007, 21:17:39 -0700 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Why do --nocolor and --color=n not work (sys-apps/portage-2.1.2.3)? Why does the damned thing default to thinking I want blaring bizarre colors scattered all over my screen? I did not read the whole thread. So this might duplicate another answer. $ echo -e '\e[1;35mNever \e[44mmind\e[m.' | sed 's/\x1b\[[0-9]\+\(;[0-9]\+\)\?m//g' Bertram -- Bertram Scharpf Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany http://www.bertram-scharpf.de -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Thursday 05 April 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?': 31334 I think you meant 31337. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ pgppisluZTz0q.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wednesday 04 April 2007 07:22, Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote: On Wednesday 04 April 2007 08:19:47 Graham Murray wrote: Bo Ørsted Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: First of all I believe most people (including myself) very much prefer colors over no colors (no I cannot qualify with any numbers..). That does not, however, mean that the pipe detection and --color switch etc. shouldn't be honoured. It should (and it does here). Though, as less can display colours, it might be good if the pipe detection did *not* disable colour output but require the user to use the --no-color switch to disable them. Not really. Just use --color=y if you want colors through a pipe. Hmm, neither less not cat give me color output. Passing --color=y to either tells me things like: == There is no color=y option (less --help for help) == I also tried --color but it's all still shown in black white. How do you pipe a file and get it to show in color? Am I missing something in my .bashrc or elsewhere? -- Regards, Mick pgpviOJ5FtnrR.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mick said the following on 2007-04-05 19:07: | ... | Hmm, neither less not cat give me color output. Passing --color=y to either | tells me things like: | == | There is no color=y option (less --help for help) | == | | I also tried --color but it's all still shown in black white. How do you | pipe a file and get it to show in color? Am I missing something in | my .bashrc or elsewhere? To make less interpret color escape sequences, you need the -R option. export LESS=-R in your shell startup script and you-ll have it as default. Generally, you don't want to use less -r, which allows arbitrary control characters through to affect the terminal (which tend to create major garbage). Color is added via ANSI escape sequences, which don't work in all displays/terminals/consoles, but as an example: grep is smart enough to detect this and won't use color (even when specified) if you're sending the output via a pipeline. Otherwise, if you piped the output, eg to less, the ANSI escape sequences would send garbage to the screen. ~ If, on the other hand, that's really what you want to do (without the garbage), there's a workaround: use the --color=always to force it through and call less with the -R flag (which prints ALL RAW control characters). That way, the color codes will escape correctly and you'll page through screens of text with your matched patterns in full color: grep --color=always regexp the_file_you_want_to_wade_through | less -R That should do the trick :) //Regards Tony PS. Have a nice Easter everyone! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQFGFUjWJDzv6DN+QUkRArevAKDoe0VND3TXj0o0kV3KkrD7cwPmBgCfUF27 VgMOQFi+i5rwL2p0rpljZ70= =w/na -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tony Stohne said the following on 2007-04-05 21:07: | ... | To make less interpret color escape sequences, you need the -R option. | export LESS=-R in your shell startup script and you-ll have it as | default. or simply put alias less=less -R, without the quotes, in your ~/.bashrc or in the systemwide bashrc in /etc. //T -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQFGFUqpJDzv6DN+QUkRAmIMAKCKnZ4qXjkk+J06NGBqxLnL6GQqQgCguAl/ +w4PDlLmDPahN+4SCWDr4BQ= =NlJz -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tony Stohne said the following on 2007-04-05 21:14: | ... | or simply put alias less=less -R, without the quotes, in your | ~/.bashrc or in the systemwide bashrc in /etc. | Ooops - sorry for the redundant info. I'm a bit tired... //T -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQFGFUyJJDzv6DN+QUkRAgvWAJ9kC5IiS4W0NfL6uTK5HQmB/Fg4igCgnTrn Kx6yAW7jWNN2cVaL39ejMBU= =glRS -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 18:07 +0100, Mick wrote: On Wednesday 04 April 2007 07:22, Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote: On Wednesday 04 April 2007 08:19:47 Graham Murray wrote: Bo Ørsted Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: First of all I believe most people (including myself) very much prefer ... Not really. Just use --color=y if you want colors through a pipe. Hmm, neither less not cat give me color output. Passing --color=y to either tells me things like: == There is no color=y option (less --help for help) == ... What I would like to know is why less in a console does give colour syntax highlighting, but does NOT do so in any of the X terminals Ive tried ... I did bring this up on the list some time back and I think its a bug, but lost track of the thread due to lack of time. BillK -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Bo Ørsted Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: First of all I believe most people (including myself) very much prefer colors over no colors (no I cannot qualify with any numbers..). That does not, however, mean that the pipe detection and --color switch etc. shouldn't be honoured. It should (and it does here). Though, as less can display colours, it might be good if the pipe detection did *not* disable colour output but require the user to use the --no-color switch to disable them. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wednesday 04 April 2007 08:19:47 Graham Murray wrote: Bo Ørsted Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: First of all I believe most people (including myself) very much prefer colors over no colors (no I cannot qualify with any numbers..). That does not, however, mean that the pipe detection and --color switch etc. shouldn't be honoured. It should (and it does here). Though, as less can display colours, it might be good if the pipe detection did *not* disable colour output but require the user to use the --no-color switch to disable them. Not really. Just use --color=y if you want colors through a pipe. -- Bo Andresen pgpCKLyJs8xjG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Hello Roy Wright, The beryl negate feature is good for interactive viewing of these insane color schemes (using both bright yellow and dark blue in foreground means one or the other will be impossible to read regardless of background color). http://gentoo-wiki.com/TIP_Remap_Portage_Colors Of course, this only apples to portage programs. It's up the the authors of other utilities whether they use this, but it would be worth filing a bug against anything that doesn't. -- Neil Bothwick DCE seeks DTE for mutual exchange of data. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 07:36:49AM +0200, Bo ?rsted Andresen wrote: Weren't you talking about portage? In that case you should obviously file it against portage.. But yeah, any app that has a --nocolor equivalent that doesn't work deserves a bug report.. Even for apps that don't it's reasonable to file it as an enhancement request. Oh for pete's sake, don't be so literal. Esearch has screwed up. Emerge has screwed up. Revdep-rebuild has screwed up. Stop reading the leaves on the trees and paya ttention to the forest. Your quibbly attitude is exactly the petulant behavior which makes me not want to waste my time filing bug reports on somebody's pet eye candy. First of all I believe most people (including myself) very much prefer colors over no colors (no I cannot qualify with any numbers..). That does not, however, mean that the pipe detection and --color switch etc. shouldn't be honoured. It should (and it does here). Secondly, how did you come up with the idea that a bug report would be dismissed if you never filed one? The UNIX standard for ages has been simple text output. Why must gentoo add trendy colors which change every time some eye candy fanatic gets a bug up his butt to change colors when he gets bored with the old fashioned colors? the default ought to be colors OFF and you have to ask to get them. I choose fonts small enough to get maximum density with minimum eye strain. The only way I could read these colors would be to increase the font size and decrease the density. If gentoo developers think that a wise trade off when almost no other utility uses colors so much and so horribly, then gentoo is broken by design and no amount of bug reportage will change a damned thing. Harmony is a nice design feature. You ought to try it sometime. As long as I am ranting, I may as well throw in a few rants on the amateur kids who run gentoo; those who think the world should be thankful for their color choices are the same idiots who linked ls against a /usr/lib library and made my system ubootable, who removed libraries which LVM linked against during boot and made my system unbootable. Gentoo has good points, starting with portage, but it also has innumerable insufferable knowitalls who make me gnash my teeth at their inconsiderate unthinking fad-of-the-week behavior. -- ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._. Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman rocket surgeon / [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933 I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Tuesday 03 April 2007 23:17:39 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip: Rant re: portage's stupid color behavior] Amen. I'm not sure *exactly* what the solution is, but portage needs help in the color department. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ pgp5pcq2osJSO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:32:45 +0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 07:36:49AM +0200, Bo ?rsted Andresen wrote: Weren't you talking about portage? In that case you should obviously file it against portage.. But yeah, any app that has a --nocolor equivalent that doesn't work deserves a bug report.. Even for apps that don't it's reasonable to file it as an enhancement request. Oh for pete's sake, don't be so literal. Esearch has screwed up. Emerge has screwed up. Revdep-rebuild has screwed up. Stop reading the leaves on the trees and paya ttention to the forest. Your quibbly attitude is exactly the petulant behavior which makes me not want to waste my time filing bug reports on somebody's pet eye candy. Exactly, all of them are screwed up! Now, I can imagine 4 possible reasons for that: 1. Each is screwed up individually. So, each deserves a bug report. 2. They share some function that is screwed up. If so, only one bug report wil fix them all, but filing more will not hurt. 3. This is a feature since the portage colors are configurable and developers may think it is unnecessary to have/add/maintain a command line switch. If so, a bug bug report will be transformed into a feature request bug report. 4. Until now all Gentoo users and developers used properly configured high quality monitors and enjoyed both dark blue (or navy?) and light yellow on, say, black background. Since it is unlikely that they downgrade to something like budget LCDs, they need a bug report just to know that the problem exists. Ergo, please file a bug report on my eye candy. First of all I believe most people (including myself) very much prefer colors over no colors (no I cannot qualify with any numbers..). That does not, however, mean that the pipe detection and --color switch etc. shouldn't be honoured. It should (and it does here). Secondly, how did you come up with the idea that a bug report would be dismissed if you never filed one? The UNIX standard for ages has been simple text output. Why must gentoo add trendy colors which change every time some eye candy fanatic gets a bug up his butt to change colors when he gets bored with the old fashioned colors? the default ought to be colors OFF and you have to ask to get them. If I remember correctly, ls already had colored output when I first saw linux in 1997. I also do not understand how the console managed to get the ability to display colors if it was in violation of the standard. Each portage color has a meaning, and i find it handy to know which lines to read and which not to. Why not create a better color scheme and submit it as a bug report? I choose fonts small enough to get maximum density with minimum eye strain. The only way I could read these colors would be to increase the font size and decrease the density. If gentoo developers think that a wise trade off when almost no other utility uses colors so much and so horribly, then gentoo is broken by design and no amount of bug reportage will change a damned thing. Harmony is a nice design feature. You ought to try it sometime. The design already has adjustable color scheme, what else do you need? However, I agree that the design is broken; projects like Paludis would never exist otherwise. So what? As long as I am ranting, I may as well throw in a few rants on the amateur kids who run gentoo; those who think the world should be thankful for their color choices are the same idiots who linked ls against a /usr/lib library and made my system ubootable, who removed libraries which LVM linked against during boot and made my system unbootable. Gentoo has good points, starting with portage, but it also has innumerable insufferable knowitalls who make me gnash my teeth at their inconsiderate unthinking fad-of-the-week behavior. Yes, Gentoo is run by amateur kids. I see the only way to fix it - join the Gentoo development. -- Andrei Gerasimenko -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andrey Gerasimenko a écrit : On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:32:45 +0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 07:36:49AM +0200, Bo ?rsted Andresen wrote: [snip] The UNIX standard for ages has been simple text output. Why must gentoo add trendy colors which change every time some eye candy fanatic gets a bug up his butt to change colors when he gets bored with the old fashioned colors? the default ought to be colors OFF and you have to ask to get them. If I remember correctly, ls already had colored output when I first saw linux in 1997. I also do not understand how the console managed to get the ability to display colors if it was in violation of the standard. Each portage color has a meaning, and i find it handy to know which lines to read and which not to. ls, by default, does not display colors (please stop me if I'm wrong) ls command is an alias to ls --color (which is defined in the bash.profile, I think, or any file in /etc/env.d) Maybe anyone need no colored output by default and an alias for those who want colored output? I have the problem with my eix-sync cron job, I don't know how to disable the garbage generated by colored output... [snip] - -- Alexis Lahouze - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gradignan (Bordeaux) - France - Terre clé pgp : 0x7729E023 (subkeys.pgp.net) fingerprint : 43F9 589F CDF7 7A21 A43E 048D A45E E8CA 7729 E023 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGE311pF7oyncp4CMRAsAlAJ4rNXgC6p5IpecRovROCHpgX/PSowCgmSZR KB8zciGrhTh+ceHr4t2gq1g= =E4Sc -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wednesday 04 April 2007 09:32:45 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Weren't you talking about portage? In that case you should obviously file it against portage.. But yeah, any app that has a --nocolor equivalent that doesn't work deserves a bug report.. Even for apps that don't it's reasonable to file it as an enhancement request. Oh for pete's sake, don't be so literal. Esearch has screwed up. Emerge has screwed up. Revdep-rebuild has screwed up. Both portage (that includes emerge) and revdep-rebuild seems to honour NOCOLOR=true if put into /etc/make.conf. It's not really clear to me whether by 'screwed up' you mean the defaults didn't satisfy you or that --nocolor didn't work. If the former I don't really care. Stop reading the leaves on the trees and paya ttention to the forest. Your quibbly attitude is exactly the petulant behavior which makes me not want to waste my time filing bug reports on somebody's pet eye candy. ??? Well, given your attitude I don't really want to encourage you to file any bug reports no matter what happens on your systems. If at some point you decide that you want to achieve something other than incoherent rants and assuming you aren't just whining over the defaults not suiting your precious needs then by all means go ahead and file constructive bugs reports against those apps. `equery belongs` will tell you what packages to file them against. And just so it's clear. I do agree that ideally they should all respect a term setting that shows no color capabilities. But without someone sitting down and writing the code properly I don't see it happening. -- Bo Andresen pgpVofTBSHFWE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wednesday 04 April 2007 12:15:40 Andrey Gerasimenko wrote: Why not create a better color scheme and submit it as a bug report? Because a 'better' color scheme is a subjective thing. You aren't going to satisfy everyone and as Neil pointed out you can already define your own color scheme. Since a change of default color scheme still wouldn't leave everyone happy the status quo will be preferred just because everytime something changes someone complains (yep, I can back that up if desired with quite a few bug reports)... -- Bo Andresen pgpzcq9kLeoeC.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote: On Wednesday 04 April 2007 12:15:40 Andrey Gerasimenko wrote: Why not create a better color scheme and submit it as a bug report? Because a 'better' color scheme is a subjective thing. You aren't going to satisfy everyone and as Neil pointed out you can already define your own color scheme. --snip-- Exactly. So, MHO is that it would be better if all the output from console apps was just plain text with the option for people who want colors to enable and customize colors, wouldn't it? I personally prefer colored output but I hate it when the color scheme changes and I have to customize backgrounds (or the scheme itself) in order to see some of the text which fuses with the background colors. -- Best regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:09:30 +0300, Daniel Iliev wrote: Exactly. So, MHO is that it would be better if all the output from console apps was just plain text with the option for people who want colors to enable and customize colors, wouldn't it? Why? all you're doing there is changing to a different default colour scheme (one where all text is the same). I really don't see the point in changing, when I suspect the majority prefer colours. Switching colour on and off is simple enough, to why disturb the status quo? What was need is consistency between portage related applications, by which I mean that portage-related tools that are not part of portage should behave the same. I think it would also be good to provide a number of alternate colour profiles, instead of just on and off, so people could choose the one that suits their eyesight and environment. It would also make lfe easier for those of us switching between xterms with light backgrounds and VC with black backgrounds. What is absolutely clear is that none of this will be brought about by ranting at and insulting the devs who do this for no pay. In fact, such posts are against the new Gentoo Code of Conduct. -- Neil Bothwick Anything not nailed down is a cat toy... signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 01:37:55PM +0200, Bo ?rsted Andresen wrote: Both portage (that includes emerge) and revdep-rebuild seems to honour NOCOLOR=true if put into /etc/make.conf. No they don't. I have had that line since the day I first noticed it, and I still get unreadable color output. NOCOLOR=true --nocolor -color=n TERM=vt100 |less I still get colorized crap. Well, given your attitude I don't really want to encourage you to file any bug reports no matter what happens on your systems. I have no intention of filing a bug full of rants. If at some point you decide that you want to achieve something other than incoherent rants and assuming you aren't just whining over the defaults not suiting your precious needs then by all means go ahead and file constructive bugs reports against those apps. `equery belongs` will tell you what packages to file them against. If gentoo colorization ever settles down to a coherent stable methodology, I will even provide a patch. But I have too many things to do to try to debug a moving target which is so completely broken. -- ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._. Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman rocket surgeon / [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933 I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 01:37:55PM +0200, Bo ?rsted Andresen wrote: Both portage (that includes emerge) and revdep-rebuild seems to honour NOCOLOR=true if put into /etc/make.conf. No they don't. They do here. Be lucky, Neil -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 03:29:42PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:09:30 +0300, Daniel Iliev wrote: Exactly. So, MHO is that it would be better if all the output from console apps was just plain text with the option for people who want colors to enable and customize colors, wouldn't it? Why? all you're doing there is changing to a different default colour scheme (one where all text is the same). I really don't see the point in changing, when I suspect the majority prefer colours. Switching colour on and off is simple enough, to why disturb the status quo? (a) The unix standard for ages has been simple plain text output. Gentoo breaks that standard with a color default. Gentoo has broken the standard; gentoo ought to honor the standard. (b) Switching color off is easier than you might imagine, since all of the following DO NOT WORK: TERM=vt100 |less NOCOLOR=true --nocolor --color=n editing /usr/bin/emerge to always set havecolor = 0 What is absolutely clear is that none of this will be brought about by ranting at and insulting the devs who do this for no pay. In fact, such posts are against the new Gentoo Code of Conduct. I will explain why I consider gentoo to be run by amateurs, and I don't mean in the old sense of unpaid vs professionals, I mean in the shoddy sense of try again in the next release trial and error coding I have seen. Some bright eyes linked /bin/ls against some /usr/lib library, maybe gpm, I forget, which made my system unbootable. No boot partition command should EVER be linked outside the boot partition. Some genius set up an ebuild to remove a library which /bin/lvm was linked against, which made my system unbootable. Several other now-forgotten similar breakages which rendered my system unbootable. Gentoo is the absolute first Unix system I have used in 25 years which I have been leery of rebooting for wondering if I will have to break out the rescue disk yet again. As for colorization, my recollection is that it first appeared as hard coded escape sequences in every single message in /usr/bin/emerge. This was such atriociously bad coding that I just edited it out, figuring that a bug report would be lost on such feeble minds. It then moved to actual variable assignments with the appropriate names, still hard coded. What the heck is termcap / terminfo for if worked around like that? Once more I shook my head and edited it out rather than waste time educating supposedly intelligent developers on the horrors of hard coded magic values. For some reason, hard coded magic numbers seem to be a favorite of newbies, and I have long since learned that those developers who like hard coded magic numbers seem to be particularly dead set against having anyone tell them why that is bad practice. Along the way, various color controls appeared, none of them working particularly well. I have listed them above. None of them work. Apparently the Gentoo standard is to add features without testing them. Somewhere along the way, --nocolor became unfashionable and was replaced by --color=n, but --nospinner is still favored, possibly because the fad police haven't discovered it yet and replaced it by --spinner=n. Or maybe they have become bored with fussing with managing options and have moved on to some trendier busy work. I use gentoo because portage *mostly* works, the ebuild packages *mostly* work, I have an amd64 system and slackware has no 64 bit version (I am aware of the unofficial one), I can't stand RedHat and the other big corporate systems, and Debian leaves me cold with its political bickering. I do NOT advise friends to use gentoo, and I would be amazed if any business tried to use it for production. -- ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._. Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman rocket surgeon / [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933 I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On 4/4/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And if ALL THESE CAPS distress you and you think I am shouting, well goodness gracious, NOW YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT COLORIZATION RUN AMUCK. Caps don't distress me, but they do encourage me to add you to my junk mail filter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 To add my 2c to this discussion: I am using the latest stable portage for amd64 (2.1.2.2) and portage respects the --nocolor options. And I am sure that a non working argument to portage would long ago have been reported as a bug. So either you are doing something completely wrong or my portage is just better. Regards, Jan Seeger -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGE9KdMmLQdC6jvocRAodMAJ0X5mlwoPSoXaOqq6OvTvmPBPqpDwCfUYNt Yjssa+ZSnc/zzWiqRHezVHk= =Zkcv -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wednesday 04 April 2007 17:53:21 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (b) Switching color off is easier than you might imagine, since all of the following DO NOT WORK: TERM=vt100 |less NOCOLOR=true --nocolor --color=n editing /usr/bin/emerge to always set havecolor = 0 They all work for the rest of us. As you've been told many times by now. [SNIP] This was such atriociously bad coding that I just edited it out, figuring that a bug report would be lost on such feeble minds. Yeah, ranting is so much better... [SNIP] Apparently the Gentoo standard is to add features without testing them. Except they are tested and working for everyone else (except maybe some people like you who don't bother to report it properly..). Somewhere along the way, --nocolor became unfashionable and was replaced by --color=n, but --nospinner is still favored, possibly because the fad police haven't discovered it yet and replaced it by --spinner=n. Because noone has requested a --force-spinner wanting to see it through a pipe. I was one of the people requesting a --force-color equivalent for use with less or files that I can cat. At first it was implemented as NOCOLOR=no. Later came --color = y | n. The moving target actually comes from the fact that they do respond to bug reports from those of us who bother to report our issues.. -- Bo Andresen pgpUOWMj33Hpj.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:53:21 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why? all you're doing there is changing to a different default colour scheme (one where all text is the same). I really don't see the point in changing, when I suspect the majority prefer colours. Switching colour on and off is simple enough, to why disturb the status quo? (a) The unix standard for ages has been simple plain text output. Please give a URL to this standard. Not that Gentoo is Unix, so this doesn't really apply anyway. (b) Switching color off is easier than you might imagine, since all of the following DO NOT WORK: TERM=vt100 |less NOCOLOR=true --nocolor --color=n editing /usr/bin/emerge to always set havecolor = 0 I have felt no need to do the latter, but all the others work for me, as does editing /etc/portage/color.map. Some bright eyes linked /bin/ls against some /usr/lib library, maybe gpm, I forget, which made my system unbootable. No boot partition command should EVER be linked outside the boot partition. You're right, and that was a mistake made in the testing branch. If you wish to use testing software, you should accept the fact that it will occasionally fail a test - otherwise, what's the point? Some genius set up an ebuild to remove a library which /bin/lvm was linked against, which made my system unbootable. Ditto. Both of these faux pas were fixed extremely promptly and didn't reach the stable tree. figuring that a bug report would be lost on such feeble minds. Insulting people who give their time for free is not the way to get things fixed. Insulting anyone is no way to get your message across. Provide logical bug reports and reasoned arguments if you want things fixed. If you aren't interested in getting them fixed and just want to let off steam and sling some mud, kindly do it elsewhere. Along the way, various color controls appeared, none of them working particularly well. I have listed them above. None of them work. None of them work for you. Apparently the Gentoo standard is to add features without testing them. Of course, that's why there is a flag to choose whether to have tested ebuilds or those still in testing, or does that not work for you either? I do NOT advise friends to use gentoo, and I would be amazed if any business tried to use it for production. Anyone using a testing branch, from any distro, for mission critical production use deserves all they get. -- Neil Bothwick When there's a will, I want to be in it. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Neil Bothwick ha scritto: I have felt no need to do the latter, but all the others work for me, as does editing /etc/portage/color.map. I was just thinking of suggesting portage to use and honour colour themes? -this would please both him (using a plain no colour theme) and us wanting eye candy (and each one having colours that likes). However /etc/portage/color.map looks just like what I was thinking about... except for the fact I can't find it (and locate tells me nothing too). Is it a new feature? m. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Hello b.n., I have felt no need to do the latter, but all the others work for me, as does editing /etc/portage/color.map. I was just thinking of suggesting portage to use and honour colour themes? -this would please both him (using a plain no colour theme) and us wanting eye candy (and each one having colours that likes). Themes would also be good, as I mentioned previously, because you don't always want the same colour scheme. However /etc/portage/color.map looks just like what I was thinking about... except for the fact I can't find it (and locate tells me nothing too). It's not there until you create it, like most of the files in /etc/postage. See the wiki page I referenced previously. -- Neil Bothwick Grow your own dope, plant a politician! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
b.n. wrote: However /etc/portage/color.map looks just like what I was thinking about... except for the fact I can't find it (and locate tells me nothing too). I made a man page for it once. Don't know if it's still accurate: https://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=89762 Benno -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Mittwoch, 4. April 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 03:29:42PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:09:30 +0300, Daniel Iliev wrote: Exactly. So, MHO is that it would be better if all the output from console apps was just plain text with the option for people who want colors to enable and customize colors, wouldn't it? Why? all you're doing there is changing to a different default colour scheme (one where all text is the same). I really don't see the point in changing, when I suspect the majority prefer colours. Switching colour on and off is simple enough, to why disturb the status quo? (a) The unix standard for ages has been simple plain text output. Gentoo breaks that standard with a color default. Gentoo has broken the standard; gentoo ought to honor the standard. gentoo is not unix. Hell, linux is not unix. GNU even has it in its name. And most unices are not very unicy. What is absolutely clear is that none of this will be brought about by ranting at and insulting the devs who do this for no pay. In fact, such posts are against the new Gentoo Code of Conduct. I will explain why I consider gentoo to be run by amateurs, and I don't mean in the old sense of unpaid vs professionals, I mean in the shoddy sense of try again in the next release trial and error coding I have seen. and you seem one of that 'leechy' type of persons, who use stuff made by others for free - and when it does not fullfull their dreams, they start insulting the 'makers' and rant around instaed of trying to find a way to change it. Some bright eyes linked /bin/ls against some /usr/lib library, maybe gpm, I forget, which made my system unbootable. No boot partition command should EVER be linked outside the boot partition. you confuse boot and root. Sweet. Some genius set up an ebuild to remove a library which /bin/lvm was linked against, which made my system unbootable. wow, I can't believe that such an error happend in the stable tree. Would you like to post the bug number? Several other now-forgotten similar breakages which rendered my system unbootable. Gentoo is the absolute first Unix system I have used in 25 years which I have been leery of rebooting for wondering if I will have to break out the rescue disk yet again. hm, strange. I never had any boot problems. Wait, I had.. when I tried some experimental, patched to death glibc from the forums, and when I had to downgrade sometime later, udev and some other stuff broke. Nothing that could not be fixed with some thinking, and definetly my fault. Have you used forum ebuilds? As for colorization, my recollection is that it first appeared as hard coded escape sequences in every single message in /usr/bin/emerge. This was such atriociously bad coding that I just edited it out, figuring that a bug report would be lost on such feeble minds. another insult. Great. You really are a parasite, aren't you? No, you don't file a bug, no, you don't post your patch - it could be used - gasp, the horror! Instead you insult the ones working hard to create it in the first place. Maybe you should step down some notches? The air must be pretty thin up there? It then moved to actual variable assignments with the appropriate names, still hard coded. What the heck is termcap / terminfo for if worked around like that? well, maybe just maybe it is because termcap/terminfo and a lot of shells are broken in many and subtle ways and someone tried to work around that? Just maybe? Once more I shook my head and edited it out rather than waste time educating supposedly intelligent developers on the horrors of hard coded magic values. oh, it is ok for them to waste their time, but not for you? For some reason, hard coded magic numbers seem to be a favorite of newbies, and I have long since learned that those developers who like hard coded magic numbers seem to be particularly dead set against having anyone tell them why that is bad practice. *yawn* Along the way, various color controls appeared, none of them working particularly well. I have listed them above. None of them work. Apparently the Gentoo standard is to add features without testing them. wow, because one 'feature' does not work as expected, you are able to conclude that everything is broken. Hm, the last time I tried to use 'nocolor' it worked just fine. But that was a long time ago. I like the colors. Especially on a black background. Makes finding new newsflags and other stuff easy. I use gentoo because portage *mostly* works, the ebuild packages *mostly* work, I have an amd64 system and slackware has no 64 bit version (I am aware of the unofficial one), I can't stand RedHat and the other big corporate systems, and Debian leaves me cold with its political bickering. I do NOT advise friends to use gentoo, and I would be amazed if any business tried to use it for production.
[gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Why do --nocolor and --color=n not work (sys-apps/portage-2.1.2.3)? Why does the damned thing default to thinking I want blaring bizarre colors scattered all over my screen? What bozo thought all those colors were legible on every frikking terminal and checking for --nocolor was unnecesary? I am so tired of this crap. Even editing /usr/bin/emerge to always set output.havecolor to 0 doesn't disable color. I have to copy and paste into an editor just to read the error messages. It has always been so; most portage commands simply aassume I want all sorts of colorized messages on my screen. Oooh, let's find a use for yellow, and green, and blue, and red, well of course red, but let's make sure we use EVERY FREAKING COLOR IN THE BOOK just because, well, BECAUSE WE CAN. Let's IGNORE the TERM environmental variable while we're at it. I CAN'T EVEN DISABLE IT BY SETTING TERM TO vt100. And if ALL THESE CAPS distress you and you think I am shouting, well goodness gracious, NOW YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT COLORIZATION RUN AMUCK. Retch. -- ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._. Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman rocket surgeon / [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933 I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wednesday 04 April 2007 06:17:39 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do --nocolor and --color=n not work (sys-apps/portage-2.1.2.3)? [SNIP] I am so tired of this crap. Even editing /usr/bin/emerge to always set output.havecolor to 0 doesn't disable color. I have to copy and paste into an editor just to read the error messages. Easier to just pipe the output into less. It has always been so; most portage commands simply aassume I want all sorts of colorized messages on my screen. And it never occurred to you to just file a bug at bugs.gentoo.org? How are devs supposed to fix your bug if you don't report it? (that's rhetorical). -- Bo Andresen pgpLWGSZYsjPc.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do --nocolor and --color=n not work (sys-apps/portage-2.1.2.3)? Why does the damned thing default to thinking I want blaring bizarre colors scattered all over my screen? What bozo thought all those colors were legible on every frikking terminal and checking for --nocolor was unnecesary? I am so tired of this crap. Even editing /usr/bin/emerge to always set output.havecolor to 0 doesn't disable color. I have to copy and paste into an editor just to read the error messages. It has always been so; most portage commands simply aassume I want all sorts of colorized messages on my screen. Oooh, let's find a use for yellow, and green, and blue, and red, well of course red, but let's make sure we use EVERY FREAKING COLOR IN THE BOOK just because, well, BECAUSE WE CAN. Let's IGNORE the TERM environmental variable while we're at it. I CAN'T EVEN DISABLE IT BY SETTING TERM TO vt100. And if ALL THESE CAPS distress you and you think I am shouting, well goodness gracious, NOW YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT COLORIZATION RUN AMUCK. Retch. I thought I was the only one that had to copy and paste it to Kwrite to read it. Sorry to say I'm not alone here. :-( He seems, well, . . . pissed. :/ Dale :-) -- www.myspace.com/-remove-me-dalek1967 Copy n paste then remove the -remove-me- part. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 06:29:45AM +0200, Bo ?rsted Andresen wrote: On Wednesday 04 April 2007 06:17:39 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do --nocolor and --color=n not work (sys-apps/portage-2.1.2.3)? [SNIP] I am so tired of this crap. Even editing /usr/bin/emerge to always set output.havecolor to 0 doesn't disable color. I have to copy and paste into an editor just to read the error messages. Easier to just pipe the output into less. Doesn't always work. Whatever generates the color ignores TERM and --nocolor and color=n, and doesn't always pay attention to where the output is going either. It has always been so; most portage commands simply aassume I want all sorts of colorized messages on my screen. And it never occurred to you to just file a bug at bugs.gentoo.org? How are devs supposed to fix your bug if you don't report it? (that's rhetorical). Certainly has, but the colorization decision has moved around enough that I figure it was a moving target. What would I file it against, every python utility that screws it up? I figured it was easier to just edit color out of the damned programs after each update. Sometimes I don't need to, sometimes I do. Besides, the colorization is so blatantly awful as to obviously be someone's pet little eye candy contribution; any bug report is very likely to be dismissed as just some geriatric fossile who fondly remembers teletypes. This current outburst was a result of my dismay at finding the colorization institutionalized in the output package, which a quick grep didn't find, and editing havecolor = 0 all over didn't fix it either. Maybe, if it is now centralized, a bug report might actually do some good. But based on past performance, it will no doubt shift around to some other package in a few weeks, so I will wait and see. -- ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._. Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman rocket surgeon / [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933 I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wednesday 04 April 2007 07:13:06 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have to copy and paste into an editor just to read the error messages. Easier to just pipe the output into less. Doesn't always work. Whatever generates the color ignores TERM and --nocolor and color=n, and doesn't always pay attention to where the output is going either. Well, as stated; that's a bug. Report it. It has always been so; most portage commands simply aassume I want all sorts of colorized messages on my screen. And it never occurred to you to just file a bug at bugs.gentoo.org? How are devs supposed to fix your bug if you don't report it? (that's rhetorical). Certainly has, but the colorization decision has moved around enough that I figure it was a moving target. What would I file it against, every python utility that screws it up? [SNIP] Weren't you talking about portage? In that case you should obviously file it against portage.. But yeah, any app that has a --nocolor equivalent that doesn't work deserves a bug report.. Even for apps that don't it's reasonable to file it as an enhancement request. Besides, the colorization is so blatantly awful as to obviously be someone's pet little eye candy contribution; any bug report is very likely to be dismissed as just some geriatric fossile who fondly remembers teletypes. First of all I believe most people (including myself) very much prefer colors over no colors (no I cannot qualify with any numbers..). That does not, however, mean that the pipe detection and --color switch etc. shouldn't be honoured. It should (and it does here). Secondly, how did you come up with the idea that a bug report would be dismissed if you never filed one? [SNIP] But based on past performance, it will no doubt shift around to some other package in a few weeks, so I will wait and see. 'Past performance'? 'Some other package' (are you still speaking of the package manager)? -- Bo Andresen pgpSy26KF3Evq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
Dale wrote: I thought I was the only one that had to copy and paste it to Kwrite to read it. Sorry to say I'm not alone here. :-( He seems, well, . . . pissed. :/ The beryl negate feature is good for interactive viewing of these insane color schemes (using both bright yellow and dark blue in foreground means one or the other will be impossible to read regardless of background color). While beryl mitigates the problem for interactive viewing, it still is a pain for scripting. Here's an example from last night's cron job: echo Syncing overlays... layman -S produces email message containing: Syncing overlays... svn: Working copy '/usr/portage/local/layman/sunrise' locked svn: run 'svn cleanup' to remove locks (type 'svn help cleanup' for details) [32;01m* [39;49;00mRunning command /usr/bin/svn update /usr/portage/local/layman/sunrise... [33;01m* [39;49;00m [33;01m* [39;49;00mErrors: [33;01m* [39;49;00m-- [33;01m* [39;49;00m [33;01m* [39;49;00mFailed to sync overlay sunrise. [33;01m* [39;49;00mError was: Syncing overlay sunrise returned status 256! [33;01m* [39;49;00m Have fun, Roy -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Why are gentoo people so in love with colorized output?!?
On Wednesday 04 April 2007 07:48:51 Roy Wright wrote: echo Syncing overlays... layman -S produces email message containing: Syncing overlays... svn: Working copy '/usr/portage/local/layman/sunrise' locked svn: run 'svn cleanup' to remove locks (type 'svn help cleanup' for details) [32;01m* [39;49;00mRunning command /usr/bin/svn update /usr/portage/local/layman/sunrise... [33;01m* [39;49;00m [33;01m* [39;49;00mErrors: [33;01m* [39;49;00m-- [33;01m* [39;49;00m [33;01m* [39;49;00mFailed to sync overlay sunrise. [33;01m* [39;49;00mError was: Syncing overlay sunrise returned status 256! [33;01m* [39;49;00m # layman -S --debug --debug-nocolor And, yes it does seem a bit retarded that there isn't just --nocolor. Again file a bug if you want it. -- Bo Andresen pgpzo7AHW6Pps.pgp Description: PGP signature
