Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 b.n. wrote: Wow! That's a big step towards what I wanted to hear -integrated 3d desktop without having to hack around with X.I don't like to use ~x86 for critical packages like X, but I hope 7.1 will be x86 relatively soon... Yes, pretty WOW! And, not being able to stop myself from unmasking the hell out of my Gentoo, I am now running a very nice Beryl Window Manager from KDE with Xorg 7.1 and beta nvidia drivers. I had it running in less than 1h, without ANY hassle AT ALL: no compiz black screens, no errors, no NOTHING. The ONLY thing that should be added, and I will, to the wikis that explain this: AFTER upgrading nvidia, exit from X (xdm stop or whatever), rmmod nvidia, then modprobe nvidia again. Without that, xdm may not start, etc. - -- Arturo Buanzo Busleiman - Consultor Independiente en Seguridad Informatica Do you know about the dangers of DRM? Find out at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm; http://www.buanzo.com.ar | http://www.vivamoslavida.com.ar : Portal no-comercial del buen vivir! for f in www blog linux-consulting vpnmail; do firefox http://$f.buanzo.com.ar ; done -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFLN6UAlpOsGhXcE0RAkdvAJ9pupidS3y56GtqkgPq5dnfNr2pywCePSNe vvLItJiRfVlyZaCbiRdL1NU= =CXAu -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
On Tuesday 10 October 2006 01:11, b.n. wrote: I should be using a fully hw-accelerated Xorg, however. I have an ATI Radeon 9200se card with the following options: I have the same card, but I don't have the problems you are having [...] Section Device #VideoRam 131072 # Insert Clocks lines here if appropriate Identifier ** ATI Radeon (generic) [radeon] Driver radeon That's the open source driver, you get 2D acceleration, but not 3D. For 3D you need to emerge ati-drivers and use the fglrx driver Option AccelMethod EXA Option AGPMode 8 Option AGPFastWrite 1 Option BackingStore true EndSection [...] My experiences were that composite with the radeon driver were ... poor alan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
On Tuesday 10 October 2006 01:11, b.n. wrote: I should be using a fully hw-accelerated Xorg, however. I have an ATI Radeon 9200se card with the following options: I have the same card, but I don't have the problems you are having [...] Section Device #VideoRam 131072 # Insert Clocks lines here if appropriate Identifier ** ATI Radeon (generic) [radeon] Driver radeon That's the open source driver, you get 2D acceleration, but not 3D. For 3D you need to emerge ati-drivers and use the fglrx driver Option AccelMethod EXA Option AGPMode 8 Option AGPFastWrite 1 Option BackingStore true EndSection [...] My experiences were that composite with the radeon driver were ... poor alan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
Alan McKinnon ha scritto: On Tuesday 10 October 2006 01:11, b.n. wrote: I should be using a fully hw-accelerated Xorg, however. I have an ATI Radeon 9200se card with the following options: I have the same card, but I don't have the problems you are having [...] Section Device #VideoRam131072 # Insert Clocks lines here if appropriate Identifier ** ATI Radeon (generic) [radeon] Driver radeon That's the open source driver, you get 2D acceleration, but not 3D. For 3D you need to emerge ati-drivers and use the fglrx driver Does Composite require full 3D acceleration? I don't think so. The radeon OSS drivers allow for basic 3D (yes, quite suboptimal, but enough for my purposes) The wiki says that for the ATI 9200 the radeon driver should allow a good composite experience: You can get hardware accelled Render (EXA) for 9200 and below, using X.org 7.0 driver 'radeon', thus making Composite ridiculously fast and even overcome NVidia cards, since they don't support EXA yet. In fact, once tweaking xorg.conf for performance, composite works fast and quite well, apart from the occasional xorg CPU problem of my original mail. It seems more like a bug, however. My experiences were that composite with the radeon driver were ... poor I guess it depends from your card. ATI cards below 9200 are much better supported by radeon than newer cards. Until I can, I would prefer to stick with the OSS drivers. m. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
On Tuesday 10 October 2006 11:59, b.n. wrote: In fact, once tweaking xorg.conf for performance, composite works fast and quite well, apart from the occasional xorg CPU problem of my original mail. It seems more like a bug, however. My experiences were that composite with the radeon driver were ... poor I guess it depends from your card. ATI cards below 9200 are much better supported by radeon than newer cards. Until I can, I would prefer to stick with the OSS drivers. I don't know the solution to the problem you are having, I can only give some tips from experience. My first trouble shooting step would be to use fglrx and see if it makes a difference. The you know if it's a driver issue or not. You don't have to keep using fglrx, consider it a debugging technique... I do recall having issues with that card and xorg 7.0, but it was a long time ago so I don't remember details. Whatever it was went away with emerging 7.1 and using the latest ati-drivers. Which wm do you use? alan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 09:02 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Tuesday 10 October 2006 01:11, b.n. wrote: I should be using a fully hw-accelerated Xorg, however. I have an ATI Radeon 9200se card with the following options: I have the same card, but I don't have the problems you are having [...] Section Device #VideoRam131072 # Insert Clocks lines here if appropriate Identifier ** ATI Radeon (generic) [radeon] Driver radeon That's the open source driver, you get 2D acceleration, but not 3D. For 3D you need to emerge ati-drivers and use the fglrx driver actually the open source radeon driver support for 3D is getting better all the time! As of x11-base/x11-drm-20060608 there is support for the 9600 (RV350 based) which there never was before. In fact, x11-drm gives me FASTER frame rates that fglrx 8.29.6!! That's right, FASTER! *woot* anyway, I'm off to try composite :) -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au For fast-acting relief, try slowing down. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
On Tuesday 10 October 2006 13:21, Iain Buchanan wrote: That's the open source driver, you get 2D acceleration, but not 3D. For 3D you need to emerge ati-drivers and use the fglrx driver actually the open source radeon driver support for 3D is getting better all the time! As of x11-base/x11-drm-20060608 there is support for the 9600 (RV350 based) which there never was before. In fact, x11-drm gives me FASTER frame rates that fglrx 8.29.6!! That's right, FASTER! *woot* anyway, I'm off to try composite :) After today's kernel upgrade to 2.6.17-suspend2-r6 I need some good news, and it looks like this is it :-) I stopped tracking the progress of the radeon driver a long time ago after I got fed up trying to watch full screen movies. The 9200SE in my desktop (R280) ought to work nicely from what you say above. And with luck the notebook video card will be supported as well: lspci: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc M22 [Radeon Mobility M300] If it all works well, then I can finally get composite working in KDE - enabling it turns fglrx into a psychotic super-intelligent shade of the colour blue and it disables dri alan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
On 10/9/06, b.n. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Today I tried to enable the composite extension on my Xorg. Nice eye candy :) and everything works pretty good. The only problem is that sometimes the CPU usage shots to 80% for intervals of 20-60 minutes (at pretty random intervals, but it seems to me that switching desktops a lot helps the bug to come out) and then quietly settles out. If I kill xcompmgr the CPU usage instantly comes down to almost zero. Restarting composite makes the CPU usage rise again to something like 10-20% (it depends), quite high but bearable. If you *really* want eye candy, try using beryl and emerald from the portage-xgl layman overlay. ;-) I am pretty sure though that xcompmgr and friends (kcompmgr) are dead. Bugs I've reported against KDE 3.5's compositing issues have been closed with WONTFIX and comments that indicate this. The current way things are going is to use compositing window managers such as compiz, beryl, metacity, whatever xfce4's wm is named, etc. -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
If you *really* want eye candy, try using beryl and emerald from the portage-xgl layman overlay. ;-) Yes, I investigated it. But it seems my card is not so well supported by XGL (If you have different experiences let me know) and XGL eye candy is (still) not what I was looking for, at least as for what I've seen (I'd never use wobbly windows and rotating cubes, sorry). The little, subtle effects of composite are enough. The only defect I can complain -but I suspect it would require a rewriting/rethinking of X apps- is that transparency is applied to a whole window. This has the side effect of lowering the contrast of what's inside the application. In many contexts (not always) - it would be very nice to have a transparent *background* of the current window, but opaque (and therefore fully contrasted) foreground. Think of a terminal, or a text editor, but not only. Is there some project aiming to this? I am pretty sure though that xcompmgr and friends (kcompmgr) are dead. Bugs I've reported against KDE 3.5's compositing issues have been closed with WONTFIX and comments that indicate this. That's interesting. Can you point me to a link? The current way things are going is to use compositing window managers such as compiz, beryl, metacity, whatever xfce4's wm is named, etc. I would not like to be forced to change WM. I'd like to have the same effects, no matter what WM I'm running. Composite runs independently of the WM - why isn't the same for XGL? m. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
On 10/10/06, b.n. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you *really* want eye candy, try using beryl and emerald from the portage-xgl layman overlay. ;-) Yes, I investigated it. But it seems my card is not so well supported by XGL (If you have different experiences let me know) and XGL eye candy Yeah, I'm not a fan of Xgl either, but I am of AIGLX, and I was under the impression that the open source radeon driver had good support for AIGLX. I'm using nvidia, so I had to wait for the 9xxx driver release before I could use it... :-( is (still) not what I was looking for, at least as for what I've seen (I'd never use wobbly windows and rotating cubes, sorry). The little, subtle effects of composite are enough. You can disable most of that of course if you want. If all you want is shadows and transparencies, you can configure just those plugins. I find the task switcher that displays live images of the windows, and the scale effect (move the cursor to a corner of the screen and all windows shrink and tile on the screen, and then you click on the one you want to switch to) to be the most useful, although I could watch my windows wobble and jiggle all day! I am pretty sure though that xcompmgr and friends (kcompmgr) are dead. Bugs I've reported against KDE 3.5's compositing issues have been closed with WONTFIX and comments that indicate this. That's interesting. Can you point me to a link? Hmm, I seem to be a bit confused with my bug reports [1] and stuff I've read elsewhere. But google around a bit for xcompmgr and read what others are saying, and consider that xcompmgr hasn't seen any significant work in over 2 years [2]. I would not like to be forced to change WM. I'd like to have the same effects, no matter what WM I'm running. Composite runs independently of the WM - why isn't the same for XGL? For simple things like shadows and transparency, that could be done independently of the window manager. But for more complicated effects, like the task switcher, or being able to animate window operations, or flash windows that want attention, or the desktop cube thingy, you need tighter integration with the window manager. -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
On 10/10/06, Richard Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm, I seem to be a bit confused with my bug reports [1] and stuff I've read elsewhere. But google around a bit for xcompmgr and read what others are saying, and consider that xcompmgr hasn't seen any significant work in over 2 years [2]. Would help if I actually put in the links. [1] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=127059 [2] http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/xapps/xcompmgr/ChangeLog?view=log -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
Richard Fish ha scritto: Yeah, I'm not a fan of Xgl either, but I am of AIGLX, and I was under the impression that the open source radeon driver had good support for AIGLX. I'm using nvidia, so I had to wait for the 9xxx driver release before I could use it... :-( I was under the impression AIGLX was dying in favour of Xgl. Well, I'll do my research :) You can disable most of that of course if you want. If all you want is shadows and transparencies, you can configure just those plugins. Ok. I once thought that the trend was with Composite taking care of shadows and transparences, while Xgl/AIGLX were about 3d-eye candy, but it would have made little sense indeed. I find the task switcher that displays live images of the windows, and the scale effect (move the cursor to a corner of the screen and all windows shrink and tile on the screen, and then you click on the one you want to switch to) to be the most useful, Yes, an Exposè-like thing would be really useful. Is it *fast*? although I could watch my windows wobble and jiggle all day! lol! For simple things like shadows and transparency, that could be done independently of the window manager. But for more complicated effects, like the task switcher, or being able to animate window operations, or flash windows that want attention, or the desktop cube thingy, you need tighter integration with the window manager. Sigh. I see. I wonder if/when common WMs/DEs will support these things out of the box (KDE, XFCE and Fluxbox are my favourites :) ) m. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
b.n. wrote: Richard Fish ha scritto: Yeah, I'm not a fan of Xgl either, but I am of AIGLX, and I was under the impression that the open source radeon driver had good support for AIGLX. I'm using nvidia, so I had to wait for the 9xxx driver release before I could use it... :-( I was under the impression AIGLX was dying in favour of Xgl. Well, I'll do my research :) Quite the other way around, as far as I've been able to tell. Xgl got greater publicity, yes, but AIGLX is the one that will eventually be the official solution - it's already present in Portage's xorg-server in some form. By the way, the latest beta drivers from nVidia provide the OpenGL extension that Compiz and Beryl use, so you don't even need AIGLX nor Xgl, and DRI can remain enabled (wobbly quake3! ^_^). My laptop at the moment has no overlays at all - xorg-server from ~x86, compiz from ~x86, and nvidia-drivers in package.unmask - and it's all working very nicely. :) Hopefully other driver devs will follow suit. I find the task switcher that displays live images of the windows, and the scale effect (move the cursor to a corner of the screen and all windows shrink and tile on the screen, and then you click on the one you want to switch to) to be the most useful, Yes, an Exposè-like thing would be really useful. Is it *fast*? Yes. I tried compiz+AIGLX on my old Celeron 1.5GHz with integrated motherboard video (eeew!) just for kicks and it ran fairly smoothly - modest framerate, but definitely usable. If you mean literally fast, then also yes - all of the animations happen within half a second or so (not that I've measured ;)). There's a key shortcut, too, if you want to see jiggly windows in slow-mo. (shift-f10 is the default, I believe? Someone help me out on that one.) although I could watch my windows wobble and jiggle all day! lol! That is awfully cute. :) My favorite feature is the window scaler. Oh, and the way the rest of the desktop sort of drops into the background while Alt-Tabbing - it's subtle but cool. For simple things like shadows and transparency, that could be done independently of the window manager. But for more complicated effects, like the task switcher, or being able to animate window operations, or flash windows that want attention, or the desktop cube thingy, you need tighter integration with the window manager. Sigh. I see. I wonder if/when common WMs/DEs will support these things out of the box (KDE, XFCE and Fluxbox are my favourites :) ) It depends on how important the WM is to the whole thing, you see. Compiz and its fork, Beryl, work very well with Gnome and KDE because the window manager isn't very important to them - it does very little besides manage windows, while (in Gnome for example) gnome-session and Nautilus do a lot of work as well. There's even a separate program that handles window decorations (gnome-window-decorator in Gnome, kwin I think in KDE). On the other hand, with Fluxbox, Openbox, and similar, the WM is all there is, so it's a big deal to change it. You can't have Compiz integration in Fluxbox, since they both do the same thing, and will refuse to run at the same time. I have, however, heard rumours of an Openbox clone with some Compiz code spliced into it in initial development... :D m. Ryan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 15:46 +0200, Michael Schreckenbauer wrote: Am Dienstag, 10. Oktober 2006 13:21 schrieb Iain Buchanan: As of x11-base/x11-drm-20060608 there is support for the 9600 (RV350 based) which there never was before. In fact, x11-drm gives me FASTER frame rates that fglrx 8.29.6!! That's right, FASTER! *woot* what applications/games are you using? r300 3D support is very experimental and far from being finished. In fact, all benchmarks posted to dri-devel showed, that fglrx outperforms the free driver. OK, in fairness, the frame rates are faster than the current two ati versions (8.28.8 and 8.29.6) but not faster than what I used to get with ati drivers, pre modular xorg. According to the ati forums, the new versions are more CPU friendly, and hence leave all the 3D up to the card, or something. All I know is this: glxgears: ati-drivers 8.28.8 / 8.29.6~ 700 FPS x11-drm-20060608 radeon~ 1500 FPS older x11 drivers ~ 400 FPS older ati-drivers (pre 8.18.x) ~ 2600 FPS this is on: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 [Mobility Radeon 9600 M10] And no comments about glxgears, I know it's not an accurate benchmark, but these figures are reflected in general performance, screensavers, games, etc, which I can't benchmark. YMMV of course :) -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Intuition, however illogical, is recognized as a command prerogative. -- Kirk, Obsession, stardate 3620.7 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
Before answering comments: well, tonight I've seen there must be something definitely wrong with my XFCE/Composite setup.No more full-time CPU hogging, but switching desktops rapidly became a pain -lags of *seconds* with CPU whirling at nearly 90% in between. I had to kill xcompmgr. Back to plain old vanilla X. Ryan Tandy ha scritto: I was under the impression AIGLX was dying in favour of Xgl. Well, I'll do my research :) Quite the other way around, as far as I've been able to tell. Xgl got greater publicity, yes, but AIGLX is the one that will eventually be the official solution - it's already present in Portage's xorg-server in some form. It's nice to have learned this. The big big buzz around Xgl led me think quite the contrary, I was aware of AIGLX and that the two projects are planning to merge, but I thought Xgl would have engulfed AIGLX code, not vice-versa. By the way, the latest beta drivers from nVidia provide the OpenGL extension that Compiz and Beryl use, so you don't even need AIGLX nor Xgl, and DRI can remain enabled (wobbly quake3! ^_^). My laptop at the moment has no overlays at all - xorg-server from ~x86, compiz from ~x86, and nvidia-drivers in package.unmask - and it's all working very nicely. :) Hopefully other driver devs will follow suit. Wow! That's a big step towards what I wanted to hear -integrated 3d desktop without having to hack around with X.I don't like to use ~x86 for critical packages like X, but I hope 7.1 will be x86 relatively soon... Time to switch to a nvidia card (maybe for christmas? hmm, I need a laptop too, but a bit more bucks for a nvidia card... mmm, yummy. what relatively cheap (100 euros) nvidia card would you advice?) Yes, an Exposè-like thing would be really useful. Is it *fast*? Yes. I tried compiz+AIGLX on my old Celeron 1.5GHz with integrated motherboard video (eeew!) just for kicks and it ran fairly smoothly - modest framerate, but definitely usable. If you mean literally fast, then also yes - all of the animations happen within half a second or so (not that I've measured ;)). Good news. That is awfully cute. :) My favorite feature is the window scaler. Oh, and the way the rest of the desktop sort of drops into the background while Alt-Tabbing - it's subtle but cool. I think so. Hmm. I'm beginning to get interested. Sigh. I see. I wonder if/when common WMs/DEs will support these things out of the box (KDE, XFCE and Fluxbox are my favourites :) ) It depends on how important the WM is to the whole thing, you see. Compiz and its fork, Beryl, work very well with Gnome and KDE because the window manager isn't very important to them - it does very little besides manage windows, while (in Gnome for example) gnome-session and Nautilus do a lot of work as well. There's even a separate program that handles window decorations (gnome-window-decorator in Gnome, kwin I think in KDE). On the other hand, with Fluxbox, Openbox, and similar, the WM is all there is, so it's a big deal to change it. You can't have Compiz integration in Fluxbox, since they both do the same thing, and will refuse to run at the same time. I have, however, heard rumours of an Openbox clone with some Compiz code spliced into it in initial development... :D I understand, but having each WM to separately rewrite support for 3d is a PITA (for developers, mostly), in my opinion. I can't believe no one is thinking to a global solution that every WM can enable. As far as I know, X programming is a wild bad devil, so kudos to the AIGL-X-gl developers nevertheless, but... Anyway, when I'll come back to setup a GL desktop, I can switch back to KDE and use Beryl. But having integrated things in KDE 4 would be... mm... ok, stop the wet dreams NOW. (Oh, about wet dreams: for the selective transparency idea, any possibility/news? whom should I ask about it? I feel I like and need it so badly that I can't believe someone with real coding skills isn't thinking about it) m. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Xorg 7.0+composite+radeon OSS drivers+radeon9200se : X cpu usage sometimes rockets to 80%
Hi, Today I tried to enable the composite extension on my Xorg. Nice eye candy :) and everything works pretty good. The only problem is that sometimes the CPU usage shots to 80% for intervals of 20-60 minutes (at pretty random intervals, but it seems to me that switching desktops a lot helps the bug to come out) and then quietly settles out. If I kill xcompmgr the CPU usage instantly comes down to almost zero. Restarting composite makes the CPU usage rise again to something like 10-20% (it depends), quite high but bearable. I should be using a fully hw-accelerated Xorg, however. I have an ATI Radeon 9200se card with the following options: [...] Section Device #VideoRam131072 # Insert Clocks lines here if appropriate Identifier ** ATI Radeon (generic) [radeon] Driver radeon Option AccelMethod EXA Option AGPMode 8 Option AGPFastWrite 1 Option BackingStore true EndSection [...] that, according to http://gentoo-wiki.com/TIP_Xorg_X11_and_Transparency , should give most acceleration for my card. What seems strange to me is that the problem happens at random (a misconfiguration should fit better a constant high CPU usage). I am using latest stable 7.0 Xorg. Any idea to help me understand what the problem can be? Thanks, m. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
