Re: [gentoo-user] a question about updating process
On 29/07/14 14:50, Alan McKinnon wrote: On 29/07/2014 13:45, behrouz khosravi wrote: Thanks every one. I guess I got it know ! And I must say that the way Gentoo is working now, is simple, no doubts. And I am surprised to hear that Gentoo is so strict to follow upstream. I guess it makes it the most vanilla flavored, And I really like it ! It also makes the Gentoo dev's life so much easier. For sure :) You do not want to get into maintaining custome patchsets for everything under the sun the way Ubuntu and RedHat do it And as a user, I wouldn't want some distribution maintainer messing with my packages in such a fundamental way (specially if there is an active upstream for it) I'd rather be made aware directly if some packages upstream decides to, for example, remove an feature from it, so I can then make informed decision like switch to another package
Re: [gentoo-user] a question about updating process
On Wed, 30 July 2014, at 3:42 pm, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Gentoo … I really like it ! Are you kidding? Really? ... you just do not realize just how rediculous this line of reasoning/questioning is? I think you must have misunderstood. Stroller.
[gentoo-user] a question about updating process
hello everyone. I was trying to emerge chromium and I noticed that it should download about 200 Mb, and no wonder cause it is source files, not binary executable. However I wanted to know that if a new version of chromium comes out, an update will download another 200 Mb or just a diff files to patch the altered files ? (I am a new user and I have not experienced that situation!) Regards
Re: [gentoo-user] a question about updating process
On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 14:38:04 +0430, behrouz khosravi wrote: I was trying to emerge chromium and I noticed that it should download about 200 Mb, and no wonder cause it is source files, not binary executable. However I wanted to know that if a new version of chromium comes out, an update will download another 200 Mb or just a diff files to patch the altered files ? (I am a new user and I have not experienced that situation!) It will download the source for the new version, which is generally a separate tarball, so another 200MB. That's how Gentoo works, with very few exceptions that source is downloaded and compiled. If you want to avoid the large download and lengthy compile time of chromium, use www-client/google-chrome instead, this is the pre-compiled binary from Google. -- Neil Bothwick EMail - garbage at the speed of light. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] a question about updating process
well chromium was just an example. I just think that when there is a version upgrade, a patch should be enough. I have read that portage is migrating to git, but I guess I got it wrong, because I thought that the source codes will be maintained using git too. However why not? why not use git for source maintenance too? regards. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 14:38:04 +0430, behrouz khosravi wrote: I was trying to emerge chromium and I noticed that it should download about 200 Mb, and no wonder cause it is source files, not binary executable. However I wanted to know that if a new version of chromium comes out, an update will download another 200 Mb or just a diff files to patch the altered files ? (I am a new user and I have not experienced that situation!) It will download the source for the new version, which is generally a separate tarball, so another 200MB. That's how Gentoo works, with very few exceptions that source is downloaded and compiled. If you want to avoid the large download and lengthy compile time of chromium, use www-client/google-chrome instead, this is the pre-compiled binary from Google. -- Neil Bothwick EMail - garbage at the speed of light.
Re: [gentoo-user] a question about updating process
On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:52 AM, behrouz khosravi bz.khosr...@gmail.com wrote: well chromium was just an example. I just think that when there is a version upgrade, a patch should be enough. For things like backports you're fairly likely to only get a patch. However, for an upstream version change (which chromium seems to have every other week) you're probably going to get a full tarball. I have read that portage is migrating to git, but I guess I got it wrong, because I thought that the source codes will be maintained using git too. However why not? why not use git for source maintenance too? Portage probably will migrate to git at some point, but when it does you'll probably not notice a thing. Gentoo doesn't maintain the source to chromium - upstream does. In some cases Gentoo doesn't even redistribute the source (licensing issues). For chromium Google publishes a tarball on googleapis.com and Gentoo mirrors it. There has been talk about creating some kind of source repository for things like patches/etc, but that isn't going to really change when we distribute patches vs upstream tarballs. Generally speaking upstream tarballs are preferred over patches to keep things simple. With what we do now you know you're basically getting chromium as upstream distributes it. If we were to just mirror chrome-25 and 300 binary diffs to patch it up to the current version nobody could keep track of it all, and while you'd save some space on each upgrade your first install might involve downloading 10GB of diffs unless we went even further and had a variety of full vs incremental files. This has been discussed in terms of having portage on squashfs and just doing it for our own stuff looks to be fairly painful, let alone doing it for every upstream out there. Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] a question about updating process
On 29/07/14 12:00, Rich Freeman wrote: On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:52 AM, behrouz khosravi bz.khosr...@gmail.com wrote: well chromium was just an example. I just think that when there is a version upgrade, a patch should be enough. For things like backports you're fairly likely to only get a patch. However, for an upstream version change (which chromium seems to have every other week) you're probably going to get a full tarball. I have read that portage is migrating to git, but I guess I got it wrong, because I thought that the source codes will be maintained using git too. However why not? why not use git for source maintenance too? Portage probably will migrate to git at some point, but when it does you'll probably not notice a thing. Gentoo doesn't maintain the source to chromium - upstream does. In some cases Gentoo doesn't even redistribute the source (licensing issues). For chromium Google publishes a tarball on googleapis.com and Gentoo mirrors it. There has been talk about creating some kind of source repository for things like patches/etc, but that isn't going to really change when we distribute patches vs upstream tarballs. Generally speaking upstream tarballs are preferred over patches to keep things simple. With what we do now you know you're basically getting chromium as upstream distributes it. If we were to just mirror chrome-25 and 300 binary diffs to patch it up to the current version nobody could keep track of it all, and while you'd save some space on each upgrade your first install might involve downloading 10GB of diffs unless we went even further and had a variety of full vs incremental files. This has been discussed in terms of having portage on squashfs and just doing it for our own stuff looks to be fairly painful, let alone doing it for every upstream out there. Rich The big issue I see in doing this would be that if you for example don't have libreoffice or something then you would need to download the source and the patches and then crucially keep a copy everywhere so that it can be patched in the future. the way it works currently portage fetches from a suitable mirror everything it needs and then cleans up after itself, so /usr/portage remains of a certain size. if we were all to download all sources and then have portage only fetch diffs then we would all need to have an equivalent of a full slakware DVD kit on hand which starts getting very unruly very easily - even if we only wanted a minimal gentoo with iproute2. to save yourself the downloads you might want to look into setting up your own PORTAGE_BINHOST that you can redistribute from, but be wary that different devices may require different compile options, so you can sacrifice speed for compatibility by using more generic makeoptions hth
Re: [gentoo-user] a question about updating process
On 29/07/2014 12:52, behrouz khosravi wrote: well chromium was just an example. I just think that when there is a version upgrade, a patch should be enough. I have read that portage is migrating to git, but I guess I got it wrong, because I thought that the source codes will be maintained using git too. However why not? why not use git for source maintenance too? The tree will OneDayRealSoonNow(TM)IPromise[1] be hosted in git. Source tarballs? No. They belong to upstream and gentoo will do as gentoo always has - follow upstream. The downsides to running gentoo are 1. Lots of compiling 2. Lots of downloading There is nothing we can do to reduce these downsides - that is the price of the amazing flexibility from USE. If you can't afford the downloads, you must switch to another distro, or use a proxy. But it's not something Gentoo can solve [1] Excuse the sarcasm, it's a gentoo in-joke how long this is taking (or if it will ever be complete at all) regards. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk mailto:n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 14:38:04 +0430, behrouz khosravi wrote: I was trying to emerge chromium and I noticed that it should download about 200 Mb, and no wonder cause it is source files, not binary executable. However I wanted to know that if a new version of chromium comes out, an update will download another 200 Mb or just a diff files to patch the altered files ? (I am a new user and I have not experienced that situation!) It will download the source for the new version, which is generally a separate tarball, so another 200MB. That's how Gentoo works, with very few exceptions that source is downloaded and compiled. If you want to avoid the large download and lengthy compile time of chromium, use www-client/google-chrome instead, this is the pre-compiled binary from Google. -- Neil Bothwick EMail - garbage at the speed of light. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] a question about updating process
On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 12:25:09 +0100, thegeezer wrote: to save yourself the downloads you might want to look into setting up your own PORTAGE_BINHOST that you can redistribute from, but be wary that different devices may require different compile options, so you can sacrifice speed for compatibility by using more generic makeoptions If you're looking to save on downloads for multiple machines, simply make $DISTDIR a network share, then only the first machine to emerge the package has to download the source. -- Neil Bothwick If you think that there is good in everybody, you haven't met everybody. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] a question about updating process
Thanks every one. I guess I got it know ! And I must say that the way Gentoo is working now, is simple, no doubts. And I am surprised to hear that Gentoo is so strict to follow upstream. I guess it makes it the most vanilla flavored, And I really like it !
Re: [gentoo-user] a question about updating process
On 29/07/2014 13:45, behrouz khosravi wrote: Thanks every one. I guess I got it know ! And I must say that the way Gentoo is working now, is simple, no doubts. And I am surprised to hear that Gentoo is so strict to follow upstream. I guess it makes it the most vanilla flavored, And I really like it ! It also makes the Gentoo dev's life so much easier. You do not want to get into maintaining custome patchsets for everything under the sun the way Ubuntu and RedHat do it That's a maintenance nightmare and a manpower sink of note :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] a question about updating process
There used to be this tool, deltup, that was providing binary patches given what versions you have already downloaded and what you are trying to download, which sounds like something that would answer your question. However, the project have somehow become quiet, probably as the bandwidth and data volumes are no longer such an issue. On 29/07/14 12:08, behrouz khosravi wrote: hello everyone. I was trying to emerge chromium and I noticed that it should download about 200 Mb, and no wonder cause it is source files, not binary executable. However I wanted to know that if a new version of chromium comes out, an update will download another 200 Mb or just a diff files to patch the altered files ? (I am a new user and I have not experienced that situation!) Regards
Re: [gentoo-user] a question about updating process
However, the project have somehow become quiet, probably as the bandwidth and data volumes are no longer such an issue. thanks for your help, however bandwidth is always an issue for me and it seems that always will be! unfortunately I am living in Iran, which means low speed and high price!
