Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
Peter Humphrey writes: On Tuesday 28 February 2012 11:23:40 Alex Schuster wrote: Peter Humphrey writes: Now can anyone tell me why clicking the first link in this e-mail opened it in Konqueror and the second in Firefox? Because KDE is so weird all over the place. Well I just hope the team get it sorted out soon. I'm waiting since KDE 4.2. And I believe it will never happen. Yes, things are getting better, and more things get fixed than break by updates. But still KDE4 has so many bugs and annoyances, nearly every day some weird things happen. I can't stand any of the Gnomes and the lighter desktops are just too thin on features. Me too. I _like_ KDE. If only things were more stable. I do not need any new features, I'd prefer the existing ones to work as they should. Look at Dolphin for example, the file manager. I expect such a thing to just work. But until 4.8 it didn't, it had some bugs that made it nearly unusable for me. Like the effect that after dragging files to a 2nd panel, Dolphin acted as if the mouse button was pressed, marking all files, and scrolling till the end when the mouse leaves the Dolphin window. Believe me, this is very annoying when copying/moving many files around. And don't press del to delete the files you copied, you might put all files in that directory to the trash. The scrolling behaviour was also annoying, I drag a file to the destination folder, which is near the top, and just when I release, the folder started to scroll away and the file is moved into another folder. Both bugs seem to be fixed in 4.8, and now Dolphin is better than the Windows XP explorer, finally. Of course, there was another bug introduced, couldn't reproduce it yet, and it does not happen often. All stuff scrolls down to the bottom then, I cannot scroll up, but with wild clicking on all mouse buttons it finally stops. Another example of these weird problems, just because it happened today: I copied 100 MB via FTP using Dolphin. Then I got an error dialog, there was a problem writing the file. Dolphin did not update the content, so I could not see how far the upload went. After some F5 pressing, it said internal error, please send a detailed bug report. Seems there was a problem renaming the file after download, I had to remove the '.part' suffix manually. No big deal, but such problems happen all over the time when I use KDE applications. Some errors are reproduceable, and I can avoid them, but many things just happen once. If you are an experienced user, you can live with that - as I said, I still like KDE, and its great features. But for the inexperienced user like my mom KDE is totally unusable, as very basic features often do not work. Like, logging out. I put Gnome on her notebook, so I do not have to help her every day when yet another problem arises. I can't see any material difference between the two links. Yes, there is none. This doesn't happen here, but I'm using the new KMail. I'm not going to that version until it works. It was only careful backing up that avoided losing half my e-mails. As it was, the basic functions of an e- mail client were almost completely absent. I'm using Claws mainly, and KMail2 for stuff like encryption or local mail folders that I did not (yet?) spend the time to set up with Claws. I migrated KDEPIM stuff for three times, and it never worked well, and always took me hours at least to get a working setup. This is just unbelieveable. And I can be happy, because I did not lose any mails - probably because I use IMAP only. And this is so sad. Generally, I like the idea of Akonadi. And I see some advantages - for example, Claws does not respond while it is checking for new mails, and it seems to do this so very often just when I want to see a new mail. KDE does this in the background. But there are far too many problems with this. So many people were bitten by this. And email is such an important issue. BTW, since 4.8, at every login I get messages that some calendar stuff did not get configured, migrated or whatever. Good thing I don't use it much, so I just do not care. But would I really entrust my important personal data to KDEPIM applications? Probably not. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Wednesday 29 Feb 2012 16:27:50 Alex Schuster wrote: Peter Humphrey writes: On Tuesday 28 February 2012 11:23:40 Alex Schuster wrote: Peter Humphrey writes: Now can anyone tell me why clicking the first link in this e-mail opened it in Konqueror and the second in Firefox? Because KDE is so weird all over the place. Well I just hope the team get it sorted out soon. I'm waiting since KDE 4.2. And I believe it will never happen. Yes, things are getting better, and more things get fixed than break by updates. But still KDE4 has so many bugs and annoyances, nearly every day some weird things happen. I can't stand any of the Gnomes and the lighter desktops are just too thin on features. Me too. I _like_ KDE. If only things were more stable. I do not need any new features, I'd prefer the existing ones to work as they should. Look at Dolphin for example, the file manager. I expect such a thing to just work. But until 4.8 it didn't, it had some bugs that made it nearly unusable for me. Like the effect that after dragging files to a 2nd panel, Dolphin acted as if the mouse button was pressed, marking all files, and scrolling till the end when the mouse leaves the Dolphin window. Believe me, this is very annoying when copying/moving many files around. And don't press del to delete the files you copied, you might put all files in that directory to the trash. The scrolling behaviour was also annoying, I drag a file to the destination folder, which is near the top, and just when I release, the folder started to scroll away and the file is moved into another folder. Both bugs seem to be fixed in 4.8, and now Dolphin is better than the Windows XP explorer, finally. Of course, there was another bug introduced, couldn't reproduce it yet, and it does not happen often. All stuff scrolls down to the bottom then, I cannot scroll up, but with wild clicking on all mouse buttons it finally stops. Another example of these weird problems, just because it happened today: I copied 100 MB via FTP using Dolphin. Then I got an error dialog, there was a problem writing the file. Dolphin did not update the content, so I could not see how far the upload went. After some F5 pressing, it said internal error, please send a detailed bug report. Seems there was a problem renaming the file after download, I had to remove the '.part' suffix manually. No big deal, but such problems happen all over the time when I use KDE applications. Some errors are reproduceable, and I can avoid them, but many things just happen once. If you are an experienced user, you can live with that - as I said, I still like KDE, and its great features. But for the inexperienced user like my mom KDE is totally unusable, as very basic features often do not work. Like, logging out. I put Gnome on her notebook, so I do not have to help her every day when yet another problem arises. I can't see any material difference between the two links. Yes, there is none. This doesn't happen here, but I'm using the new KMail. I'm not going to that version until it works. It was only careful backing up that avoided losing half my e-mails. As it was, the basic functions of an e- mail client were almost completely absent. I'm using Claws mainly, and KMail2 for stuff like encryption or local mail folders that I did not (yet?) spend the time to set up with Claws. I migrated KDEPIM stuff for three times, and it never worked well, and always took me hours at least to get a working setup. This is just unbelieveable. And I can be happy, because I did not lose any mails - probably because I use IMAP only. And this is so sad. Generally, I like the idea of Akonadi. And I see some advantages - for example, Claws does not respond while it is checking for new mails, and it seems to do this so very often just when I want to see a new mail. KDE does this in the background. But there are far too many problems with this. So many people were bitten by this. And email is such an important issue. BTW, since 4.8, at every login I get messages that some calendar stuff did not get configured, migrated or whatever. Good thing I don't use it much, so I just do not care. But would I really entrust my important personal data to KDEPIM applications? Probably not. Wonko I could echo most of what you raised here and add to it (because kmail will just not work for me without major failures on POP3 IMAP4 and korganizer is seriously broken when trying to import and merge calendars) - but I won't. What I don't understand is why couldn't we stay with 4.2 or which ever version was broadly working and keep all these dev wet-dreams for testing purposes only. If it takes them 3 years to arrive at a stable (read = functioning) product then we can start then and only then bringing it slwly in the stable tree. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
Wouldn't this particular topic be best answered by the dev's of said file systems and what, if any, fragmentation etc, could and can and will happen with the different arguments ie -m 0, etc.? All it is now between everyone discussing this here in a Gentoo list is more or less conjecture, at least what I've read from most posts. Wouldn't the people who make up, design and take care of the file systems in discussion be the best ones to simply ask? Not meaning to 'end' the discussion, just curious as to why no one has gone to those who would know best and brought it up and seeked out the answer(s) from them instead of people who only can guesstimate here. So don't get mad, get glad, heh heh.
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
John wrote: Wouldn't this particular topic be best answered by the dev's of said file systems and what, if any, fragmentation etc, could and can and will happen with the different arguments ie -m 0, etc.? All it is now between everyone discussing this here in a Gentoo list is more or less conjecture, at least what I've read from most posts. Wouldn't the people who make up, design and take care of the file systems in discussion be the best ones to simply ask? Not meaning to 'end' the discussion, just curious as to why no one has gone to those who would know best and brought it up and seeked out the answer(s) from them instead of people who only can guesstimate here. So don't get mad, get glad, heh heh. I think one reason may be this, there are people on this list that have more experience than a lot of devs. By that, I mean real life experience. Sometimes what devs expect doesn't actually happen in real life situations. For example, when testing a file system and how it frags, large files, small files or medium size files? Are these files changing or once saved they never change? So, sometimes asking a person who actually uses something can have better advice than the person that created it. Just saying. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words! Miss the compile output? Hint: EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
Peter Humphrey writes: Now can anyone tell me why clicking the first link in this e-mail opened it in Konqueror and the second in Firefox? Because KDE is so weird all over the place. I can't see any material difference between the two links. Yes, there is none. This doesn't happen here, but I'm using the new KMail. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Tuesday 28 February 2012 11:23:40 Alex Schuster wrote: Peter Humphrey writes: Now can anyone tell me why clicking the first link in this e-mail opened it in Konqueror and the second in Firefox? Because KDE is so weird all over the place. Well I just hope the team get it sorted out soon. I can't stand any of the Gnomes and the lighter desktops are just too thin on features. I can't see any material difference between the two links. Yes, there is none. This doesn't happen here, but I'm using the new KMail. I'm not going to that version until it works. It was only careful backing up that avoided losing half my e-mails. As it was, the basic functions of an e- mail client were almost completely absent. -- Rgds Peter Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:16 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Historically, when an update to portage came available, portage would put it at the head of the list, build it first, then re-run emerge world command. I've seen lately that this no longer happens, portage updates are any old place in the list just like all other packages. I'm wondering why this change happened, or if I somehow unknowingly set an option to disable the old behaviour )I'd liek it back). Relevent commits: http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=d3f704a425a50b5cfa997a25866929b30f1b7d0f http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=458ce208ed25f2d17666926585e14da6166eb9d7
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Monday 27 February 2012 21:05:24 Mike Gilbert wrote: Relevent commits: http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=d3f7 04a425a50b5cfa997a25866929b30f1b7d0f http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=458 ce208ed25f2d17666926585e14da6166eb9d7 Helpful - thanks. Now can anyone tell me why clicking the first link in this e-mail opened it in Konqueror and the second in Firefox? I can't see any material difference between the two links. -- Rgds Peter Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:36:00 +, Peter Humphrey wrote: I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with some update to the tree pedantic old fart mode ON What does co-coincides mean? It's when two coincidences are mutually coincident. That or something involving a hot bedtime drink :) -- Neil Bothwick The law of Probability Dispersal decrees that whatever it is that hits the fan will not be evenly distributed. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Feb 24, 2012 4:08 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:36:00 +, Peter Humphrey wrote: I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with some update to the tree pedantic old fart mode ON What does co-coincides mean? It's when two coincidences are mutually coincident. That or something involving a hot bedtime drink :) More likely one nightcap too many ;-) (Gosh, I love this list because all the friendly meta ribbings) Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 17:27:52 +0700 Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: On Feb 24, 2012 4:08 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:36:00 +, Peter Humphrey wrote: I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with some update to the tree pedantic old fart mode ON What does co-coincides mean? It's when two coincidences are mutually coincident. That or something involving a hot bedtime drink :) More likely one nightcap too many ;-) My doctor's been telling me for years that a gallon of coffee at 11pm is really not the way to go. I always ignored her. Now I'm not so sure... -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
[gentoo-user] portage updates
Historically, when an update to portage came available, portage would put it at the head of the list, build it first, then re-run emerge world command. I've seen lately that this no longer happens, portage updates are any old place in the list just like all other packages. I'm wondering why this change happened, or if I somehow unknowingly set an option to disable the old behaviour )I'd liek it back). -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:16:01 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Historically, when an update to portage came available, portage would put it at the head of the list, build it first, then re-run emerge world command. I've seen lately that this no longer happens, portage updates are any old place in the list just like all other packages. I'm wondering why this change happened, or if I somehow unknowingly set an option to disable the old behaviour )I'd liek it back). It's not just you, although it doesn't appear to be that random. Generally the portage update comes at or near the end of the list here. At least you get the rest of the world update done before a broken new portage renders it unusable :-/ -- Neil Bothwick Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:24:17 + Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:16:01 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Historically, when an update to portage came available, portage would put it at the head of the list, build it first, then re-run emerge world command. I've seen lately that this no longer happens, portage updates are any old place in the list just like all other packages. I'm wondering why this change happened, or if I somehow unknowingly set an option to disable the old behaviour )I'd liek it back). It's not just you, although it doesn't appear to be that random. Generally the portage update comes at or near the end of the list here. At least you get the rest of the world update done before a broken new portage renders it unusable :-/ :-) I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with some update to the tree pedantic old fart mode ON I'm not worried about broken portage commits, I have FEATURES=buildsyspkg enabled so as long as I have a working tar I'm good to go with any fix. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 01:48:59PM +0200, Penguin Lover Alan McKinnon squawked: I'm not worried about broken portage commits, I have FEATURES=buildsyspkg enabled so as long as I have a working tar I'm good to go with any fix. Wait... isn't portage itself no longer in the system set? W -- Data aequatione quotcunque fluentes quantitae involvente fluxiones invenire et vice versa ~~~ I. Newton
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 15:07:46 +0100 Willie WY Wong wong...@member.ams.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 01:48:59PM +0200, Penguin Lover Alan McKinnon squawked: I'm not worried about broken portage commits, I have FEATURES=buildsyspkg enabled so as long as I have a working tar I'm good to go with any fix. Wait... isn't portage itself no longer in the system set? W I believe you are right, portage is now just a package manager that satisfies virtual/package-manager -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Thursday 23 February 2012 11:48:59 Alan McKinnon wrote: I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with some update to the tree pedantic old fart mode ON What does co-coincides mean? I know that various versions of English exist out there, but this one has me foxed. -- Rgds Peter Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:36:00 + Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: On Thursday 23 February 2012 11:48:59 Alan McKinnon wrote: I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with some update to the tree pedantic old fart mode ON What does co-coincides mean? I know that various versions of English exist out there, but this one has me foxed. That would be because it's a mistake :-) coincides -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 01:36:00AM +, Penguin Lover Peter Humphrey squawked: On Thursday 23 February 2012 11:48:59 Alan McKinnon wrote: I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with some update to the tree pedantic old fart mode ON What does co-coincides mean? I know that various versions of English exist out there, but this one has me foxed. When Alan puts on his pedantic old fart hat, sometimes he gets so excited that he stutters a little bit. :) W -- Data aequatione quotcunque fluentes quantitae involvente fluxiones invenire et vice versa ~~~ I. Newton
