Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
Calvin Spealman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: but amd64 is itself an extension of the x86 architecture, isn't that the case? amd64 chips run x86 code, i'm sure. do they not support those extensions? I understand that for some reason the USE flags are irrelevent here, but I don't understand why and it is starting to drive me crazy because I'm just missing something here. The reason is that with the x86 arch, not all processors support all of these features. So the USE flags allow the user to specify which features their processor (or the one for which they are building) supports. For amd64, there is no variation in the features supported, so these USE flags are not needed for amd64. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
So its automatic detection of the features if possible, but USE flags if otherwise. OK, now I get it. The way it had been said, I just got the impression there was something different going on. Thanks for clearing up the confusion.On 5/2/05, Graham Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Calvin Spealman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: but amd64 is itself an extension of the x86 architecture, isn't that the case? amd64 chips run x86 code, i'm sure. do they not support those extensions? I understand that for some reason the USE flags are irrelevent here, but I don't understand why and it is starting to drive me crazy because I'm just missing something here. The reason is that with the x86 arch, not all processors support allof these features. So the USE flags allow the user to specify whichfeatures their processor (or the one for which they are building)supports. For amd64, there is no variation in the features supported, so these USE flags are not needed for amd64.--gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
Calvin Spealman wrote: So its automatic detection of the features if possible, but USE flags if otherwise. No. There is no detection. Just assumption that AMD65 will support certain extensions. And please turn of HTML for posts in mailing lists. Be lucky, Neil -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
On 5/2/05, Neil Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So its automatic detection of the features if possible, but USE flags if otherwise. No. There is no detection. Just assumption that AMD65 will support certain extensions. In other words, -march=athlon64 implies those flags. -- Bruno Lustosa, aka Lofofora | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Network Administrator/Web Programmer | ICQ: 1406477 Rio de Janeiro - Brazil | -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
but amd64 is itself an extension of the x86 architecture, isn't that the case? amd64 chips run x86 code, i'm sure. do they not support those extensions? I understand that for some reason the USE flags are irrelevent here, but I don't understand why and it is starting to drive me crazy because I'm just missing something here.On 4/30/05, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:29:36 + Calvin Spealman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:| Are the things that are automatically enabled for compilation| different thanthe things the USE flags enable?| If these things are automatic, then why have the flags at all? The flags are relevant for x86. They are not relevant for amd64.--Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
On 4/29/05, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:54:57 + Calvin Spealman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | i dont understand whats going on here. I thought those flags enabled | the use of extended sets of the x86 instruction set, and amd64 chips | are in the x86 family, aren't they? and they support those | extensions, I'm sure, so what then do those flags do that the amd64 | can't make use of the flags? I thought that if you 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' it'll show you the flags that are compatible with your cpu. Is that not accurate for the amd64 chip? -Hani -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 10:27:15 -0600 Kiawud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I thought that if you 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' it'll show you the flags | that are compatible with your cpu. Is that not accurate for the amd64 | chip? Uh huh, but those flags don't correspond to the USE flags. -- Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools) Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm pgpJMVrAF7Y9J.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
What they're saying is that SSE/SSE2/MMX and so on are automatically applied without the flags. The flags are only there because not every x86 chip supports SSE, SSE2, and so on. On AMD64, the flags are ignored and it's compiled with any of those processor optimizations that it knowingly supports. If something came out that was AMD64 Generation 2 specific (and wasn't supported by regular AMD64), it'd have a USE flag that only works on AMD64. And you wouldn't want to turn that flag on on a normal AMD64, since it doesn't support it. Right now, if you compile mplayer, you'll get MMX/SSE/SSE2/3DNOW and all that crap. Just there are no special USE flags for it.On 4/30/05, Kiawud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:On 4/29/05, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:54:57 + Calvin Spealman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | i dont understand whats going on here. I thought those flags enabled | the useof extended sets of the x86 instruction set, and amd64 chips | are in the x86family, aren't they? and they support those | extensions, I'm sure, so whatthen do those flags do that the amd64 | can't make use of the flags?I thought that if you 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' it'll show you the flagsthat are compatible with your cpu.Is that not accurate for the amd64chip?-Hani --gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list-- Microsoft is a lot better at making money than it is at making good operating systems. -- Linus Torvalds
Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
On April 28, 2005 11:14 pm, Paul Varner wrote: On Thu, 2005-04-28 at 22:46 -0400, daniel wrote: can someone please explain to me why these flags are being ignored and what those brackets mean? if you're interested, here's my USE variable in make.conf (i used app-portage/ufed): What profile are you using? ls -l /etc/make.profile # ls -l /etc/make.profile lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 50 Apr 2 03:55 /etc/make.profile - ../usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/amd64/2005.0 oh that's what it means! where'd you find that out? does this mean that using an amd64 means i won't get support for any of those things? is this likely to change? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
On April 29, 2005 09:06 am, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:44:54 -0400 daniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | oh that's what it means! where'd you find that out? does this mean | that using an amd64 means i won't get support for any of those | things? is this likely to change? Well, sse, sse2, mmx, mmxext and 3dnow are x86 things, not amd64 things, so you don't get to play with them. altivec is ppc, so you can't play with that either. I'm guessing that the rest are masked due to non-working dependencies. then why are 3dnow, mmx, sse and sse2 in the flags section of cpuinfo? or is this in no way related to the use flags? $ cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : AuthenticAMD cpu family : 15 model : 7 model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3500+ stepping: 10 cpu MHz : 2211.337 cache size : 512 KB fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 pni syscall nx mmxext lm 3dnowext 3dnow bogomips: 4374.52 TLB size: 1024 4K pages clflush size: 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual power management: ts fid vid ttp -- faith sustains us in the hour when reason tells us that we can not continue, that the whole of our whole lives is without meaning. - brother alwyn macomber, babylon 5 the deconstruction of falling stars -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
i dont understand whats going on here. I thought those flags enabled the use of extended sets of the x86 instruction set, and amd64 chips are in the x86 family, aren't they? and they support those extensions, I'm sure, so what then do those flags do that the amd64 can't make use of the flags?On 4/29/05, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:36:25 -0400 daniel[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:| Well, sse, sse2, mmx, mmxext and 3dnow are x86 things, not amd64| things, so you don't get to play with them. altivec is ppc, so you | can't play with that either. I'm guessing that the rest are masked| due to non-working dependencies.|| then why are 3dnow, mmx, sse and sse2 in the flags section of cpuinfo?| or is this in no way related to the use flags? Well, you always get them on amd64. But that's not what those USE flagsare for -- they enable or disable x86-specific assembly stuff whererelevant. On amd64, it's not relevant.I wanted to call the flags x86-3dnow, x86-sse, ppc-altivec, sparc-vis and so on to avoid this problem. Ah well.--Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.orgWeb : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:54:57 + Calvin Spealman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | i dont understand whats going on here. I thought those flags enabled | the use of extended sets of the x86 instruction set, and amd64 chips | are in the x86 family, aren't they? and they support those | extensions, I'm sure, so what then do those flags do that the amd64 | can't make use of the flags? No. See, there're two possibilities here. Possibility the first: the optimised code works on amd64. In this case, it's used on amd64 no matter what, since there aren't any amd64 chips that don't have the extra optimisations. So, no USE flag. Possibility the second. the optimised code is x86-specific and won't work on amd64. In this case, it's never used on amd64, and you don't want a USE flag to turn it on since it'll break. So, these USE flags aren't relevant. Unfortunately, amd64 wasn't around when they first came up, so we didn't give them a better name. Now, if at some point in the future, an amd64 chip comes along with some extra fancy optimisations (say sse4 or whatever), we'll have to have an sse4 USE flag added which *will* be enabled on amd64. I still think arch- prefixes to those flags is a good idea. -- Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools) Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm pgpH4XTMYFkv2.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
i've been noticing lately that the output of emerge -pv is giving me some interesting output: $ emerge -pv mplayer These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] media-video/mplayer-1.0_pre6-r5 (-3dfx) (-3dnow) +3dnowext +X -aalib +alsa (-altivec) -arts +avi -bidi -bl +cdparanoia +debug +dga -directfb (-divx4linux) -doc +dts +dv +dvb +dvd +dvdread +edl +encode -esd -fbcon -ggi +gif -gtk +i8x0 -ipv6 -jack -joystick +jpeg -libcaca -lirc -live +lzo +mad -matroska -matrox (-mmx) (-mmxext) +mpeg -mythtv -nas +nls -nvidia +oggvorbis +opengl -oss +png +real +rtc -samba -sdl (-sse) (-sse2) (-svga) +tga +theora +truetype +v4l +v4l2 -xanim -xinerama +xmms +xv +xvid -xvmc 0kB what i'm trying to understand here is why so many of the above flags are in brackets and marked with a - even though they're clearly enabled in my make.conf file as flags i want to use. most important being mmx, sse, sse2 and divx4linux. can someone please explain to me why these flags are being ignored and what those brackets mean? if you're interested, here's my USE variable in make.conf (i used app-portage/ufed): USE=-* 3dnow 3dnowex 3dnowext X aac acl acpi acpi4linux aim alsa amarok audiofile avantgo avi berkdb bzip2 bzlib cdda cdio cdparanoia cdr chroot codecs css curl debug dga dio divx4linux dnd dts dv dvb dvd dvdr dvdread edl encode exif extraicons faad ffmpeg freetype ftp gd geoip gif gpgme gstreamer i8x0 icq jabber java javascript jpeg jpeg2k kde kdepim libclamav libgd libwww lm_sensors logitech-mouse lzo lzw-tiff mad maildir md5sum mmx mmxext motif moznocompose moznoirc moznomail moznoxft mozp3p mozsvg mp3 mpeg mpeg4 mplayer msn ncurses network nls no-old-linux noamazon nocd oav offensive ogg oggvorbis openal opengl pam pam_chroot pam_timestamp pda pdf pdflib perl png posix povray python qt quicktime rar real rtc sdk session smime sms sox spamassassin spell sql sqlite sqlite3 sse sse2 ssl svg svga tga theora tidy tiff transcode truetype truetype-fonts type1-fonts usb v4l v4l2 vcd vcdimager wmf xface xine xml xml2 xmms xosd xsl xv xvid yahoo zlib -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] what's the deal with use flags in (brackets)?
On Thu, 2005-04-28 at 22:46 -0400, daniel wrote: i've been noticing lately that the output of emerge -pv is giving me some interesting output: $ emerge -pv mplayer These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] media-video/mplayer-1.0_pre6-r5 (-3dfx) (-3dnow) +3dnowext +X -aalib +alsa (-altivec) -arts +avi -bidi -bl +cdparanoia +debug +dga -directfb (-divx4linux) -doc +dts +dv +dvb +dvd +dvdread +edl +encode -esd -fbcon -ggi +gif -gtk +i8x0 -ipv6 -jack -joystick +jpeg -libcaca -lirc -live +lzo +mad -matroska -matrox (-mmx) (-mmxext) +mpeg -mythtv -nas +nls -nvidia +oggvorbis +opengl -oss +png +real +rtc -samba -sdl (-sse) (-sse2) (-svga) +tga +theora +truetype +v4l +v4l2 -xanim -xinerama +xmms +xv +xvid -xvmc 0kB what i'm trying to understand here is why so many of the above flags are in brackets and marked with a - even though they're clearly enabled in my make.conf file as flags i want to use. most important being mmx, sse, sse2 and divx4linux. can someone please explain to me why these flags are being ignored and what those brackets mean? if you're interested, here's my USE variable in make.conf (i used app-portage/ufed): What profile are you using? ls -l /etc/make.profile The parenthesis indicate that the USE flag is masked by your profile. Regards, Paul -- My Gentoo stuff: http://varnerfamily.org/pvarner/gentoo -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
