Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
Mark Knecht ha scritto: No, I need a new kernel also. The kernel on this machine is 2 years old. Also, I have about a dozen packages masked so I've unmasked those and will need to get the whole machine up to date. There is something I didn't understand at all in this thread. Why did you need to update the machine at all? Did you badly need some support for new video formats or performance improvement? Otherwise I really don't see the point of upgrading it. I see the point of upgrading a desktop or server system (yet my desktop kernel is 1.5 years old and I'm fine), but a MythTV box looks like an appliance that once working , you touch no more. m.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:47 AM, bnbrullonu...@gmail.com wrote: Mark Knecht ha scritto: No, I need a new kernel also. The kernel on this machine is 2 years old. Also, I have about a dozen packages masked so I've unmasked those and will need to get the whole machine up to date. There is something I didn't understand at all in this thread. Why did you need to update the machine at all? Did you badly need some support for new video formats or performance improvement? Otherwise I really don't see the point of upgrading it. I see the point of upgrading a desktop or server system (yet my desktop kernel is 1.5 years old and I'm fine), but a MythTV box looks like an appliance that once working , you touch no more. m. With the switch to digital TV I had to buy new hardware to record. Even though this machine is only a frontend it started having trouble that my other Gentoo desktop PCs were not. I updated everything I could on this machine without updating the video driver, the kernel and xorg-x11. Since I couldn't change the kernel or the video driver I chose to update xorg-x11 and hit the wall. I don't do these things for fun. It's OK with me if a machine never gets updated but with MythTV they change data formats, database formats, communication protocols and break things along the way WRT remote frontends that haven't been updated, or that's my experience. I figured that is what happened here. Anyway, that's all done. The machine is updated and close to clean. Still have to do a grub update but that can wait. I'm having a few problems with things like eselect opengl set 1 complaining about libraries and things so I'll have to work on that before I push forward. Hope that explains a bit anyway. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:42:11 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: You can tell before you perform the update that the old version is no longer in portage, How? I run eix-sync and at that point it's no longer in /usr/portage/distfiles. AFAIK, eix-sync doesn't touch $DISTDIR. If it does, that's a very good reason to not use it. Am I supposed to study what eix-sync is going to do before it does it for the 800 or so packages that are on my system? Fat chance anyone does that on a regular and thorough basis. Or do you mean let eix-sync happen, then study emerge -pvDuN and somehow determine that it's going to delete one out of 100 packages that it's going to update? How often do you update? I have myth front and backends, running mostly stable and I doubt they get that many updates a year. Gentoo gives you responsibility for maintaining your machines. You don't get to hand that back. emerge -avuDN does exactlky what you tell it to do, whether that's what you wanted or not, it is your responsibility to ensure that the two match. then you can copy the ebuild from /var/db/pkg to your overlay (and run quickpkg for speed) before updating. Remember that nothing is ever truly removed from portage, it is still in the CVS attic, What would be handy would be a script that you run after you sync. If a package you have installed is no longer in the tree, it copies the ebuild to an overlay. Ebuild and the source code package also? The source code is still in $DISTDIR, still on the upstream server and probably still on the mirrors for a while. (Sarcastically) What's an 'personal' overlay? You don't need one to install Gentoo. You don't seem to need one until it's too late and you have to somehow create it and deal with this after it's become a problem. Creating and setting up your own overlay is as complex as copying one line from make.conf.example to make.conf. My problem was I'm already toast at the dinner table tonight. I told the family that the machine doesn't work anymore and now it's not clear I'm allowed to sleep here anymore. Hard to build an overlay if I'm locked out. What, no SSH? ;-) A different short-term solution might be to find another old junker machine that is supported, building it out of junker parts. This would be good if I had any certainty that when the work was completed portage wouldn't immediately create the same havok. Your real problem is that you are using outdated and unsupported hardware. Not unsupported by Gentoo but unsupported by ATI. Incidentally, have you filed a bug report about this, if the only available driver for your hardware has been removed from portage, you should post a bug asking it to be reinstated. -- Neil Bothwick I laugh in the face of danger, then I hide until it goes away signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Wednesday 24 June 2009 02:28:50 Neil Bothwick wrote: Those who can, do. Those who cannot, teach. Those who cannot teach, HACK! No, no - those who can't teach teach teachers. Or so my father used to say, from what he said had been bitter experience. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Mark Knechtmarkkne...@gmail.com wrote: Is xorg-server-1.1.1 completely gone and I'm hosed? I'm not finding it on my my machine. The only variations on that theme seem to be in /var/db/pkg. No tar files, just other programming junk. http://sources.gentoo.org/ is your friend :) Specifically: http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/gentoo-x86/x11-base/xorg-server/xorg-server-1.1.1-r5.ebuild Every ebuild that has ever been in portage is available on CVS or via the web viewcvs interface above. You'll probably need the patches for this version from http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/x11-base/xorg-server/files/?hideattic=0 as well as whatever other split-ebuilds may be required to support this version. It looks like it was obsoleted and deleted from the main portage tree almost 2 years ago. Download them, put them in your local overlay, mask newer-than-1.1 versions in your /etc/portage/* and hopefully your problem will be solved. :)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:46 AM, Neil Bothwickn...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:42:11 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: SNIP A different short-term solution might be to find another old junker machine that is supported, building it out of junker parts. This would be good if I had any certainty that when the work was completed portage wouldn't immediately create the same havok. Your real problem is that you are using outdated and unsupported hardware. Not unsupported by Gentoo but unsupported by ATI. Incidentally, have you filed a bug report about this, if the only available driver for your hardware has been removed from portage, you should post a bug asking it to be reinstated. -- Neil Bothwick I laugh in the face of danger, then I hide until it goes away Unfortunately for me: 1) It absolutely isn't that the hardware is unsupported, it's that a *feature* of the hardware (TV Out S-Video) became unsupported. The machine works (AFAIK) with Gentoo. It boots, it probably runs X just fine using the VGA output. It's that the S-Video output feature (TV Out) has become unsupported by ati-driver. Who would have ever guessed when you purchased a machine that uses and ATI chipset with a built-in ATI graphics controller that it would be ATI that chose to obsolete it? Amazing... 2) Following your Bugzilla suggestion about asking that it be put back into portage to it's logical conclusion and it gets scary. Here's the paraphrased request: a) I need ati-driver-8.28.8 put back into portage because it's the last driver that supports TV out for the 9100 IGP chipset. b) Unfortunately I need 2.6.19 added back into portage because it's the last kernel that ati-driver-8.28.8 runs on. c) Because all this old stuff doesn't work on the new xorg-server I need xorg-server-1.1.1 to remain in portage. Multiply this sort of requirement up by whatever additional packages are required to get the stuff above actually working and it looks unlikely, 'eh? Granted, I don't need the kernel because I can just get that and manage it myself. (I.e. - I don't need gentoo-sources) I really think this is what a personal overlay is for, but as I've said for years, it's hard to build an overlay when you don't know what needs to be in it until it's been removed. And yes, *something* has removed these files, at least from my distfiles directory and I'm pretty confident it wasn't me by hand because the machines all have disk space which is the only reason I ever remove packages from there by hand. There are still things lurking around in /var/db/pkgs or whatever it's called so maybe I can learn how to create a personal overlay form what's left and then go look elsewhere for other things required. Anyway, thanks for the inputs. I'm not sure what I'm going to do next other than take some time and figure things out. As always I appreciate your help. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:17:12 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: 1) It absolutely isn't that the hardware is unsupported, it's that a *feature* of the hardware (TV Out S-Video) became unsupported. And the S-Video output is part of the hardware, so you do have unsupported hardware. 2) Following your Bugzilla suggestion about asking that it be put back into portage to it's logical conclusion and it gets scary. Here's the paraphrased request: a) I need ati-driver-8.28.8 put back into portage because it's the last driver that supports TV out for the 9100 IGP chipset. b) Unfortunately I need 2.6.19 added back into portage because it's the last kernel that ati-driver-8.28.8 runs on. c) Because all this old stuff doesn't work on the new xorg-server I need xorg-server-1.1.1 to remain in portage. When you put it like that... but there's no harm in asking. I really think this is what a personal overlay is for, but as I've said for years, it's hard to build an overlay when you don't know what needs to be in it until it's been removed. I think that whenever you start masking newer versions of a package to force portage to stay with the older ones, you should consider copying them to an overlay. Everything is removed eventually and if you can't keep up with updates, you preferred version will disappear at some time. It's not the end of the world as you can still get the files from the CVS attic, it's just that copying them in advance saves some work. And yes, *something* has removed these files, at least from my distfiles directory and I'm pretty confident it wasn't me by hand because the machines all have disk space which is the only reason I ever remove packages from there by hand. eix-sync makes no mention of cleaning $DISTDIR, either in its man page or --help output, so I reckon you're running something else to do this. Maybe eclean in a postsync script. What do you have in /etc/portage/postsync.d? You could put a script in here that runs rsync -a /usr/portage/ /usr/portage.bak/ which would mean you have your own portage attic and could retrieve any deleted ebuild whenever you want. -- Neil Bothwick Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Wednesday 24 June 2009 22:17:12 Mark Knecht wrote: I really think this is what a personal overlay is for, but as I've said for years, it's hard to build an overlay when you don't know what needs to be in it until it's been removed. And yes, something has removed these files, at least from my distfiles directory and I'm pretty confident it wasn't me by hand because the machines all have disk space which is the only reason I ever remove packages from there by hand. There are still things lurking around in /var/db/pkgs or whatever it's called so maybe I can learn how to create a personal overlay form what's left and then go look elsewhere for other things required. So why don't you do exactly that? I can't help but think when reading this thread that you are going round in circles, wondering if you should create a personal overlay, when you already know that the only possible solution IS a personal overlay. It's documented in the gentoo docs. Briefly: Create a directory somewhere for your stuff and include it in PORTDIR_OVERLAY in /etc/make.conf. If the current versions of ebuilds you need are currently installed, the ebuilds will be in /var/db/pkg so copy them to your overlay directory retaining the category/package structure. If not currently installed, get them from gentoo's cvs. Look inside each ebuild, see what it's DEPENDS are, make sure you have suitable ebuilds in your overlay. Rinse, repeat. It's fiddly, but not hard to do. Mask stuff using normal portage methods to make sure you don't upgrade to something incompatible. emerge world and let rip. Stop playing dixie with the idea and just do it, man! -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
RE: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
I havent been following this thread but have you checked the open source drivers? New features are always being ported in. The two options are; - Radeon driver (module is named ati) - Radeonhd driver (module is named radeon) Check out the current features here http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature all boxes are for the radeon/ati driver unless the box contains (RHD, in which case it's the radeonhd/radeon driver). In particular TV out should work on R100/R200/R300 based cards.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Adam Carteradam.car...@optus.com.au wrote: I havent been following this thread but have you checked the open source drivers? New features are always being ported in. The two options are; - Radeon driver (module is named ati) - Radeonhd driver (module is named radeon) Check out the current features here http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature all boxes are for the radeon/ati driver unless the box contains (RHD, in which case it's the radeonhd/radeon driver). In particular TV out should work on R100/R200/R300 based cards. It's a great question and one I'd like to answer. Someone else suggested this yesterday I think. Thanks for suggesting I get back to it. I am scanning the /var/log/Xorg.0.log looking for info on what chip this is. I'm not finding anything that says what Radeon family it's part of. lspci tells me what I posted here already - that it's part of the IGP 9100 family. I found this page at the AMD/ATI site but I suspect it's for a newer version of the chipset: http://ati.amd.com/products/radeon9100igp/features.html I'm going to pursue this with more dedication as it is really the only current path I've heard of so far that gives me a chance to stay current with Gentoo. What VIDEO_DEVICES setting might one use to get this driver called up? Either ati or radeon and check that it installs Open Source? It is a bunch of work, but it would be great if I can use it. Thanks, Mark DesertFlower ~ # lspci -vv SNIP 01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon 9100 IGP (prog-if 00 [VGA controller]) Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 8107 Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B- DisINTx- Status: Cap+ 66MHz+ UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium TAbort- TAbort- MAbort- SERR- PERR- INTx- Latency: 64 (2000ns min), Cache Line Size: 64 bytes Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 11 Region 0: Memory at e800 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=128M] Region 1: I/O ports at d000 [size=256] Region 2: Memory at fde0 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] Expansion ROM at fdd0 [disabled] [size=128K] Capabilities: [58] AGP version 3.0 Status: RQ=256 Iso- ArqSz=0 Cal=7 SBA+ ITACoh- GART64- HTrans- 64bit+ FW+ AGP3+ Rate=x4,x8 Command: RQ=1 ArqSz=0 Cal=0 SBA+ AGP- GART64- 64bit- FW- Rate=none Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2 Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA PME(D0-,D1-,D2-,D3hot-,D3cold-) Status: D0 PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME-
RE: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
I am scanning the /var/log/Xorg.0.log looking for info on what chip this is. I'm not finding anything that says what Radeon family it's part of. lspci tells me what I posted here already - that it's part of the IGP 9100 family. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_ATI_Graphics_Processing_Units says its an R200. I found this page at the AMD/ATI site but I suspect it's for a newer version of the chipset: http://ati.amd.com/products/radeon9100igp/features.html I'm going to pursue this with more dedication as it is really the only current path I've heard of so far that gives me a chance to stay current with Gentoo. What VIDEO_DEVICES setting might one use to get this driver called up? Either ati or radeon and check that it installs Open Source? So you want the radeon/ati driver, the package name is xf86-video-ati, so I guess that means you want ati in VIDEO_DEVICES. It is a bunch of work, but it would be great if I can use it. I thought emerge xf86-video-ati, then swapping Driver flgrx to Driver radeon in xorg.conf was all that is required??
RE: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
So you want the radeon/ati driver, the package name is xf86-video-ati, so I guess that means you want ati in VIDEO_DEVICES. It's radeon in recent X.Org, not ati. Not sure when that changed. Probably with xorg-server 1.5. Damn - I had checked the /usr/portage/x11-drivers directory and the packages are called -ati and -radeonhd, so I assumed that's what would be passed via the variable, but of course it's the modules name, so flgrx installs ati-drivers radeon installs xf86-video-ati radeonhd installs xf86-video-radeonhd
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Nikos Chantziarasrea...@arcor.de wrote: On 06/25/2009 03:46 AM, Mark Knecht wrote: On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Adam Carteradam.car...@optus.com.au wrote: I havent been following this thread but have you checked the open source drivers? New features are always being ported in. The two options are; - Radeon driver (module is named ati) - Radeonhd driver (module is named radeon) Check out the current features here http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature all boxes are for the radeon/ati driver unless the box contains (RHD, in which case it's the radeonhd/radeon driver). In particular TV out should work on R100/R200/R300 based cards. [...] I am scanning the /var/log/Xorg.0.log looking for info on what chip this is. I'm not finding anything that says what Radeon family it's part of. lspci tells me what I posted here already - that it's part of the IGP 9100 family. I found this page at the AMD/ATI site but I suspect it's for a newer version of the chipset: http://ati.amd.com/products/radeon9100igp/features.html That's an R200 chip. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_R200 Thanks. That would be good news as the new ATI driver says TV Out is supported. Building a new kernel now. cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Adam Carteradam.car...@optus.com.au wrote: I am scanning the /var/log/Xorg.0.log looking for info on what chip this is. I'm not finding anything that says what Radeon family it's part of. lspci tells me what I posted here already - that it's part of the IGP 9100 family. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_ATI_Graphics_Processing_Units says its an R200. I found this page at the AMD/ATI site but I suspect it's for a newer version of the chipset: http://ati.amd.com/products/radeon9100igp/features.html I'm going to pursue this with more dedication as it is really the only current path I've heard of so far that gives me a chance to stay current with Gentoo. What VIDEO_DEVICES setting might one use to get this driver called up? Either ati or radeon and check that it installs Open Source? So you want the radeon/ati driver, the package name is xf86-video-ati, so I guess that means you want ati in VIDEO_DEVICES. It is a bunch of work, but it would be great if I can use it. I thought emerge xf86-video-ati, then swapping Driver flgrx to Driver radeon in xorg.conf was all that is required?? No, I need a new kernel also. The kernel on this machine is 2 years old. Also, I have about a dozen packages masked so I've unmasked those and will need to get the whole machine up to date. None the less I'm happy to do it if there's any chance it will work. Thanks, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Nikos Chantziarasrea...@arcor.de wrote: On 06/25/2009 04:27 AM, Mark Knecht wrote: I thought emerge xf86-video-ati, then swapping Driver flgrx to Driver radeon in xorg.conf was all that is required?? No, I need a new kernel also. The kernel on this machine is 2 years old. Also, I have about a dozen packages masked so I've unmasked those and will need to get the whole machine up to date. None the less I'm happy to do it if there's any chance it will work. If it works, better make sure you keep the system up to date. Gentoo will bark and bite you at some point if you don't; I'm sure you figured that out by now :P Except for being forced into all these old kernel and video packages the machine has been kept up to date. Now it will be completely up to date. :-) The new kernel booted the first time and except for me forgetting to enable the correct NIC things looked good. I added the 3c590 and now can get to it over ssh. emerge -DuN @world will take a few hours as there are a number of packages to update. Tomorrow I will delve into the newer Open Source ATI driver and see how things go. Wish me luck. cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Nikos Chantziarasrea...@arcor.de wrote: On 06/24/2009 02:20 AM, Mark Knecht wrote: Hi all, Main question is whether there is any change in the way I select the fglrx driver with xorg-server-1.5? I have a big emerge running on one of my MythTV frontends that uses an old 2.6.19 kernel with an old 8.28 ati-driver package. The machine does not use a keyboard or mouse. I cannot update either the kernel or the ati-driver for hardware support reasons. When the emerge is finished in a couple of hours do I need to change the xorg.conf file at all to use the server with the fglrx driver or will it just work? There's a pretty big chance that 8.28 is so old that it does not support xorg-server 1.5 at all. That means you can't use xorg-server 1.5. And if you're not prepared to update your kernel, then the xorg native driver (xf86-video-ati) is out of the question too. It looks to me you'll have to keep using the older xorg-server. Thanks Nikos. I hope that's not the case or I've waster a couple of hours because emerge didn't stop me from doing this. No messages at all about anything like too old a kernel or vidieo driver. It's almost done so I guess I'll just wait and then see how it goes. There is no way to update the kernel as far as I know. The ATI chip that's in the computer has an S-video output that I need to drive the TV. After 8.28 ATI stopped supporting S-Video for this chip meaning I cannot update ati-drivers. To use the 8.28 ati-driver package I'm forced to use the 2.6.19 kernel. Believe me, I'd like to update but don't know how to unless I buy a new video card. I haven't looked in the box in a LONG time but I think it's possibly PCI only, and then it's also low form factor so it will probably be pretty hard to find ANY video card to fit it, but maybe I'll look around in case I have to go that way. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Mark Knechtmarkkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Nikos Chantziarasrea...@arcor.de wrote: On 06/24/2009 02:20 AM, Mark Knecht wrote: Hi all, Main question is whether there is any change in the way I select the fglrx driver with xorg-server-1.5? I have a big emerge running on one of my MythTV frontends that uses an old 2.6.19 kernel with an old 8.28 ati-driver package. The machine does not use a keyboard or mouse. I cannot update either the kernel or the ati-driver for hardware support reasons. When the emerge is finished in a couple of hours do I need to change the xorg.conf file at all to use the server with the fglrx driver or will it just work? There's a pretty big chance that 8.28 is so old that it does not support xorg-server 1.5 at all. That means you can't use xorg-server 1.5. And if you're not prepared to update your kernel, then the xorg native driver (xf86-video-ati) is out of the question too. It looks to me you'll have to keep using the older xorg-server. Thanks Nikos. I hope that's not the case or I've waster a couple of hours because emerge didn't stop me from doing this. No messages at all about anything like too old a kernel or vidieo driver. It's almost done so I guess I'll just wait and then see how it goes. There is no way to update the kernel as far as I know. The ATI chip that's in the computer has an S-video output that I need to drive the TV. After 8.28 ATI stopped supporting S-Video for this chip meaning I cannot update ati-drivers. To use the 8.28 ati-driver package I'm forced to use the 2.6.19 kernel. Believe me, I'd like to update but don't know how to unless I buy a new video card. I haven't looked in the box in a LONG time but I think it's possibly PCI only, and then it's also low form factor so it will probably be pretty hard to find ANY video card to fit it, but maybe I'll look around in case I have to go that way. Cheers, Mark OK, after the reboot fglrx is in memory but Xorg.0.log is complaining about missing symbols: myth12 ~ # uname -a Linux myth12 2.6.19-gentoo-r5 #2 PREEMPT Sat May 19 17:55:30 PDT 2007 i686 Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.26GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux myth12 ~ # lsmod | grep fglrx fglrx 390828 0 agpgart24240 2 fglrx,ati_agp myth12 ~ # (II) LoadModule: fglrx (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//fglrx_drv.so dlopen: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//fglrx_drv.so: undefined symbol: miZeroLineScreenIndex (EE) Failed to load /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//fglrx_drv.so (II) UnloadModule: fglrx (EE) Failed to load module fglrx (loader failed, 7) (EE) No drivers available. Fatal server error: no screens found Am I completely hosed here? Looking on NewEgg I'm not finding any AGP fanless, low-profile cards yet and I'm not sure the machine supported AGP anyway. I'll have to open the box or find some old docs online. There is one fanless ATI Radeon 9250-based PCI-based card but it's expensive for this application at $90. Looks like it's back to the older xorg-server. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Mark Knechtmarkkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Mark Knechtmarkkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Nikos Chantziarasrea...@arcor.de wrote: On 06/24/2009 02:20 AM, Mark Knecht wrote: Hi all, Main question is whether there is any change in the way I select the fglrx driver with xorg-server-1.5? I have a big emerge running on one of my MythTV frontends that uses an old 2.6.19 kernel with an old 8.28 ati-driver package. The machine does not use a keyboard or mouse. I cannot update either the kernel or the ati-driver for hardware support reasons. When the emerge is finished in a couple of hours do I need to change the xorg.conf file at all to use the server with the fglrx driver or will it just work? There's a pretty big chance that 8.28 is so old that it does not support xorg-server 1.5 at all. That means you can't use xorg-server 1.5. And if you're not prepared to update your kernel, then the xorg native driver (xf86-video-ati) is out of the question too. It looks to me you'll have to keep using the older xorg-server. Thanks Nikos. I hope that's not the case or I've waster a couple of hours because emerge didn't stop me from doing this. No messages at all about anything like too old a kernel or vidieo driver. It's almost done so I guess I'll just wait and then see how it goes. There is no way to update the kernel as far as I know. The ATI chip that's in the computer has an S-video output that I need to drive the TV. After 8.28 ATI stopped supporting S-Video for this chip meaning I cannot update ati-drivers. To use the 8.28 ati-driver package I'm forced to use the 2.6.19 kernel. Believe me, I'd like to update but don't know how to unless I buy a new video card. I haven't looked in the box in a LONG time but I think it's possibly PCI only, and then it's also low form factor so it will probably be pretty hard to find ANY video card to fit it, but maybe I'll look around in case I have to go that way. Cheers, Mark OK, after the reboot fglrx is in memory but Xorg.0.log is complaining about missing symbols: myth12 ~ # uname -a Linux myth12 2.6.19-gentoo-r5 #2 PREEMPT Sat May 19 17:55:30 PDT 2007 i686 Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.26GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux myth12 ~ # lsmod | grep fglrx fglrx 390828 0 agpgart 24240 2 fglrx,ati_agp myth12 ~ # (II) LoadModule: fglrx (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//fglrx_drv.so dlopen: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//fglrx_drv.so: undefined symbol: miZeroLineScreenIndex (EE) Failed to load /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//fglrx_drv.so (II) UnloadModule: fglrx (EE) Failed to load module fglrx (loader failed, 7) (EE) No drivers available. Fatal server error: no screens found Am I completely hosed here? Looking on NewEgg I'm not finding any AGP fanless, low-profile cards yet and I'm not sure the machine supported AGP anyway. I'll have to open the box or find some old docs online. There is one fanless ATI Radeon 9250-based PCI-based card but it's expensive for this application at $90. Looks like it's back to the older xorg-server. - Mark Am I hosed again? Did updating portage break my machine by removing what I was just using: 1245799356: === Unmerging... (x11-base/xorg-server-1.1.1-r5) 1245799361: unmerge success: x11-base/xorg-server-1.1.1-r5 1245799361: emerge (62 of 64) x11-base/xorg-server-1.5.3-r6 to / 1245799363: === (62 of 64) Cleaning (x11-base/xorg-server-1.5.3-r6::/usr/portage/x11-base/xorg-server/xorg-server-1.5.3-r6.ebuild) 1245799363: === (62 of 64) Compiling/Merging (x11-base/xorg-server-1.5.3-r6::/usr/portage/x11-base/xorg-server/xorg-server-1.5.3-r6.ebuild) 1245800519: === (62 of 64) Merging (x11-base/xorg-server-1.5.3-r6::/usr/portage/x11-base/xorg-server/xorg-server-1.5.3-r6.ebuild) 1245800527: AUTOCLEAN: x11-base/xorg-server:0 myth12 ~ # ls -a /usr/portage/distfiles/xorg-server-* /usr/portage/distfiles/xorg-server-1.5.3-gentoo-patches-08.tar.bz2 /usr/portage/distfiles/xorg-server-1.5.3.tar.bz2 myth12 ~ # Is xorg-server-1.1.1 completely gone and I'm hosed? I'm not finding it on my my machine. The only variations on that theme seem to be in /var/db/pkg. No tar files, just other programming junk. I absolutely HATE this about portage. Update your machine just thinking about trying a new piece of software and then find you cannot immediately go back. Gentoo was supposed to be about choice. Seems it's not about my choice anymore. Bummer. Maybe I can find this on another machine somewhere. Don't know what to do though. Family gets no MythTV for a few days, or maybe forever? I'm trying to mask things to check this and emerge is really mad at me. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Nikos Chantziarasrea...@arcor.de wrote: On 06/24/2009 03:06 AM, Mark Knecht wrote: [...] Am I hosed again? Did updating portage break my machine by removing what I was just using: [...] Is xorg-server-1.1.1 completely gone and I'm hosed? I'm not finding it on my my machine. The only variations on that theme seem to be in /var/db/pkg. No tar files, just other programming junk. I absolutely HATE this about portage. Update your machine just thinking about trying a new piece of software and then find you cannot immediately go back. Gentoo was supposed to be about choice. Seems it's not about my choice anymore. Bummer. I hate to say this, but if you have a machine that you don't keep up to date by doing full updates at least each month or two, then Gentoo is *not* for you because Gentoo simply lacks the notion of stable. Stable refers to package versions, not system stability. Gentoo is never stable in that sense like other distros that offer stable releases. Something like Debian stable should be more appropriate and far more easier to keep operational for machines like that. Gentoo is for me. Gentoo is the only distro I run and the only one I've run for at least 6 years. Gentoo has run on THIS VERY MACHINE for over 4 years and it is the ONLY distro that has EVER run on this machine. Today I run eix-sync and emerge xorg-x11 and the machine breaks and I cannot go back. It is not my choice that Gentoo maintainers decided to drop something from portage required to make this machine run and not give me a way to get it back. Portage chose to erase files on MY machine - files that are required to make the machine work. Gentoo package maintainers decided to obsolete my machine, not me. I'm sure there's some way to get things back working again but I don't know what they are. I've got two identical machines but looking around on the other machine it doesn't seem much happier, even though it's currently functional. Well, I guess you can chuckle at my problems and say tough luck. Better if you can offer some guidance about what to read to go find these files. Again, I'd LOVE to keep the machine COMPLETELY up to date. It's not my fault the folks who run portage decided to remove what this machine requires to work. It's not my fault that ATI stopped supporting the hardware. It's not my fault that the only driver that works with the hardware only works with an old kernel. And there is probably NO distro that would support this box anymore off the install CD. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Nikos Chantziarasrea...@arcor.de wrote: On 06/24/2009 03:06 AM, Mark Knecht wrote: [...] Family gets no MythTV for a few days, or maybe forever? I'm trying to mask things to check this and emerge is really mad at me. As a last attempt at damage control, try the full update anyway. Remove fglrx from VIDEO_CARDS and replace it with radeon (I assume you have a Radeon card?) Delete /etc/X11/xorg.conf and see what happens. Maybe the recent xorg driver for Radeons supports the S-Video port of your card correctly. At least that's what I'm seeing while googling for xf86-video-ati S-Video. My, you are an optimistic fellow! OK, that's an idea, but I'll wait and do a little more browsing on the subject. All the threads I'm finding in Google start off with this feature NOT working. I think I'd do better to create some sort of personal overlay - over which I know little about - and try to get the files I need in there, as there is no guarantee that anything new supports this requirement. Of course, if I had a job and earned money then I could solve the problem that way, but I'm out of work, broke and cannot even think about going down that path.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Nikos Chantziarasrea...@arcor.de wrote: On 06/24/2009 03:27 AM, Mark Knecht wrote: Gentoo is for me. Gentoo is the only distro I run and the only one I've run for at least 6 years. Gentoo has run on THIS VERY MACHINE for over 4 years and it is the ONLY distro that has EVER run on this machine. Today I run eix-sync and emerge xorg-x11 and the machine breaks and I cannot go back. It is not my choice that Gentoo maintainers decided to drop something from portage required to make this machine run and not give me a way to get it back. Portage chose to erase files on MY machine - files that are required to make the machine work. Gentoo package maintainers decided to obsolete my machine, not me. You should have taken a backup of /usr/portage and created binary packages using quickpgk before the update. Portage can't contain every ancient version of every package out there. It would grow to infinity. Old stuff has to go. That's the very nature of Gentoo's rolling release nature (or on other words, its lack of a stable notion.) I have NEVER asked portage to keep a copy of EVERYTHING online. I think it's a sinthat portage decides to remove files from MY machine, files that I'm currently using, files that I require. Sure, easy to blame it on me with Gentoo. quickpkg might have been a solution if I'd known about it, so it's my fault. It's certainly not the fault of the designers of portage who could have checked to ensure that I had a binary package before they removed my files, or could have required an extra override at the command line to simply inform me they were going to take away MY files. No, I'm sure they don't care if they break machines. It's easy to chuckle in private instead of making a system that can go backward one step on this machine. One step, that's all. But yes, it's my fault. Anyway, see my other post, maybe you can go on with the update and have it working in the end. Yes, I read that. Thanks. I'm sure there's some way to get things back working again but I don't know what they are. The rule is simple. If a fresh installation of Gentoo wouldn't work, you're out of luck. Gentoo lacks releases. Either you change hardware or distribution. There is no way for me to know that any other distribution will fix this short of trying them. that's just not practical. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:06:42 -0700 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Am I hosed again? Did updating portage break my machine by removing what I was just using: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. ;-) Portage does drop many old packages over time, to keep the package database to a reasonable size. -- -- Keith Dart ke...@dartworks.biz ===
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:06:42 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: I absolutely HATE this about portage. Update your machine just thinking about trying a new piece of software and then find you cannot immediately go back. Gentoo was supposed to be about choice. Seems it's not about my choice anymore. Bummer. You can tell before you perform the update that the old version is no longer in portage, then you can copy the ebuild from /var/db/pkg to your overlay (and run quickpkg for speed) before updating. Remember that nothing is ever truly removed from portage, it is still in the CVS attic, What would be handy would be a script that you run after you sync. If a package you have installed is no longer in the tree, it copies the ebuild to an overlay. -- Neil Bothwick Those who can, do. Those who cannot, teach. Those who cannot teach, HACK! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:42:43 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: I have NEVER asked portage to keep a copy of EVERYTHING online. Yet it does. I think it's a sinthat portage decides to remove files from MY machine, files that I'm currently using, files that I require. It doesn't. It may remove files from the portage tree, but those are not in use except when emerging. The ebuilds for your installed packages are kept in /var/db/pkg. -- Neil Bothwick WinErr 003: Dynamic linking error - Your mistake is now in every file signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Neil Bothwickn...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:06:42 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: I absolutely HATE this about portage. Update your machine just thinking about trying a new piece of software and then find you cannot immediately go back. Gentoo was supposed to be about choice. Seems it's not about my choice anymore. Bummer. You can tell before you perform the update that the old version is no longer in portage, How? I run eix-sync and at that point it's no longer in /usr/portage/distfiles. Am I supposed to study what eix-sync is going to do before it does it for the 800 or so packages that are on my system? Fat chance anyone does that on a regular and thorough basis. Or do you mean let eix-sync happen, then study emerge -pvDuN and somehow determine that it's going to delete one out of 100 packages that it's going to update? I'm lost. then you can copy the ebuild from /var/db/pkg to your overlay (and run quickpkg for speed) before updating. Remember that nothing is ever truly removed from portage, it is still in the CVS attic, What would be handy would be a script that you run after you sync. If a package you have installed is no longer in the tree, it copies the ebuild to an overlay. Ebuild and the source code package also? (Sarcastically) What's an 'personal' overlay? You don't need one to install Gentoo. You don't seem to need one until it's too late and you have to somehow create it and deal with this after it's become a problem. My problem was I'm already toast at the dinner table tonight. I told the family that the machine doesn't work anymore and now it's not clear I'm allowed to sleep here anymore. Hard to build an overlay if I'm locked out. A different short-term solution might be to find another old junker machine that is supported, building it out of junker parts. This would be good if I had any certainty that when the work was completed portage wouldn't immediately create the same havok. Fool me once, shame on you portage. Fool me twice... - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
Mark Knecht wrote: On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Nikos Chantziarasrea...@arcor.de wrote: On 06/24/2009 03:06 AM, Mark Knecht wrote: [...] Family gets no MythTV for a few days, or maybe forever? I'm trying to mask things to check this and emerge is really mad at me. As a last attempt at damage control, try the full update anyway. Remove fglrx from VIDEO_CARDS and replace it with radeon (I assume you have a Radeon card?) Delete /etc/X11/xorg.conf and see what happens. Maybe the recent xorg driver for Radeons supports the S-Video port of your card correctly. At least that's what I'm seeing while googling for xf86-video-ati S-Video. My, you are an optimistic fellow! OK, that's an idea, but I'll wait and do a little more browsing on the subject. All the threads I'm finding in Google start off with this feature NOT working. I think I'd do better to create some sort of personal overlay - over which I know little about - and try to get the files I need in there, as there is no guarantee that anything new supports this requirement. Of course, if I had a job and earned money then I could solve the problem that way, but I'm out of work, broke and cannot even think about going down that path. This is the section I have for masking the new xorg and its little friends. As a last resort, maybe this will help. # xorg-server masking # =x11-base/xorg-server-1.5.3-r4 =x11-drivers/xf86-input-keyboard-1.3.2 =x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev-2.1.3 =x11-proto/printproto-1.0.4 =x11-proto/renderproto-0.9.3 =x11-libs/libXrender-0.9.4 That has worked for me but I do have a nvidia card. You may have to add a couple things to this list. I'm still running the old xorg so far tho. From what I have read, you can emerge xorg with the evdev USE flag disabled and it should work the old way. Don't hold me to that because I have not tried it. As far as Gentoo removing files during a upgrade, it has to remove old files. I can't tell you how many people complain if a old file gets left behind during a upgrade. It can also cause problems if the old file is not compatible with the new packages. Gentoo doesn't do one thing for you, it doesn't hold your hand. If you break something, you get to keep the pieces. Backups, saving binary packages and other little tricks are always good to do. I do both backups and saving binary packages. Hope that helps or at least gives you another option to play with. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Neil Bothwickn...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:42:43 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: I have NEVER asked portage to keep a copy of EVERYTHING online. Yet it does. I think it's a sinthat portage decides to remove files from MY machine, files that I'm currently using, files that I require. It doesn't. It may remove files from the portage tree, but those are not in use except when emerging. The ebuilds for your installed packages are kept in /var/db/pkg. It does. QUESTION: Was the file /usr/portage/distfiles/xorg-server-1.1.1.tar.bz on my system? ANSWER: Yes QUESTION: After eix-sync or building xorg-server-1.5 is the file /usr/portage/distfiles/xorg-server-1.1.1.tar.bz still on my system? ANSWER: No. It does remove files. I don't know when, but they are gone. Can I go find these files somewhere? Almost certainly - in backups, in the attic, on other machines - somewhere. Should I be spending my time this way? My thought is no, but then again, that's just me. Apparently portage devs disagree and if I want to run this distro I guess it's their way or the highway. (Doesn't rhyme so well from the user's point of view, but then again, the guy getting poked in the eye by the stick isn't supposed to think it feels good, is he?) Good night. I'll come back in a few days and see if this feels any better, assuming I still have a key to the house. Thanks, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xorg-server-1.5 update/old kernel+old fglrx
Mark Knecht wrote: On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Neil Bothwickn...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:42:43 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: I have NEVER asked portage to keep a copy of EVERYTHING online. Yet it does. I think it's a sinthat portage decides to remove files from MY machine, files that I'm currently using, files that I require. It doesn't. It may remove files from the portage tree, but those are not in use except when emerging. The ebuilds for your installed packages are kept in /var/db/pkg. It does. QUESTION: Was the file /usr/portage/distfiles/xorg-server-1.1.1.tar.bz on my system? ANSWER: Yes QUESTION: After eix-sync or building xorg-server-1.5 is the file /usr/portage/distfiles/xorg-server-1.1.1.tar.bz still on my system? ANSWER: No. It does remove files. I don't know when, but they are gone. Can I go find these files somewhere? Almost certainly - in backups, in the attic, on other machines - somewhere. Should I be spending my time this way? My thought is no, but then again, that's just me. Apparently portage devs disagree and if I want to run this distro I guess it's their way or the highway. (Doesn't rhyme so well from the user's point of view, but then again, the guy getting poked in the eye by the stick isn't supposed to think it feels good, is he?) Good night. I'll come back in a few days and see if this feels any better, assuming I still have a key to the house. Thanks, Mark I have never seen eix-sync or even emerge remove a file from distfiles. The distfiles directory is excluded during a sync and is not changed at all. There is a command, eclean, that will remove cruft from distfiles but only if it is not installed on the system. It seems to me that something is not quite right on your system. I'm not sure what but something is fishy somewhere. Dale :-) :-)
