RE: [gentoo-user] Has Linux jumped the Shark?
Hi folks, -Original Message- From: Uwe Thiem [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23 December 2006 07:57 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Has Linux jumped the Shark? -- snip -- The control centre has been problematic since its invention. Its complexity reflects a real dilemma. How to present literally thousands of options? Sane defaults are fine - still, power users want to tweak everything, and they should be able to. I hope the HCI people that have got involved in KDE a while back will be able to influence the overhaul of it in KDE4 to an extent that it no longer intimidates people. That said, you should have seen it in the begin. It has become much better over the years. Uwe -- snip -- I like the approach taken by the Azureus application - you can choose to see beginner, intermediate or advanced options. Perhaps having a section for the basic options (like what theme you want, what you want your windows to do when you double click the top bar etc) and have the advanced options like fine tuned tweaking kept seperate? Alternatively some form of documentation to show where options are might be useful. eg: Q. I want to blah blah A. Look in the foo section, click on the blurp tab and select option zonk. David Note: These views are my own, advice is provided with no guarantee of success. I do not represent anyone else in any emails I send to this list. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Has Linux jumped the Shark?
On AD 2006 December 21 Thursday 10:35:47 AM +0200, Uwe Thiem wrote: Or is it about KDE4? KDE is the most advanced desktop I've used (that doesn't include vista's 'new' desktop). The desktop that ships with OSX may come close to KDE for features but it is styled to the point of annoyance both because the UI and because the theme is inextricably welded onto the distro just like windows. Each major release of KDE3 has introduced many amazing new features and all of that happened in the last 4 years, and KDE4 promises to be even more amazing, who cares what their schedule is. The one great blight of KDE also happens to be related to its strengths and that is that kcontrol is the most nested widget-laden application in the history of the world. I've actually spent hours scouring for the one elusive checkbox only to find it days later after I had long given up. For simplicity of UI gconf-editor is much nicer even though it's not the 'official' way to edit gconf-keys. Justin -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Has Linux jumped the Shark?
On Wednesday 20 December 2006 21:32, Jeff Rollin wrote: Hi all A discussion on the staff blogs over at OSNews about the Linux desktop got me thinking. Thom and Eugenia seem to think that the linux desktop peaked in 2001-2004, but I don't remember the hype around Ubuntu starting till well after that. Their argument seemed to be that because GNOME is running into problems and because KDE is behind schedule, the Linux desktop is dead. How true is this? PURE Microsoft FUD... They are pulling out all the stops now, trying to block the advancement of Linux in any areas they can. The fact is, they are loosing big time, big money. Do a simple google safari for ie 7 and windows vista and read the posts from ordinary windows users (not the professional microsoft shills)... There's so much discontentment out there with microsoft products that Microsoft will never be able to quell it. It's a literal Linux Breeding Ground and Linux could fill their needs. If you guys and gals want to do some serious Linux advocating, start lending as much help as you can on the micosoft support usenet forums. Help as much as you can. If you are successful, then perhaps you've made a friend. If you fail at fixing their windows toys, offer them a free copy of linux... You may make a friend for life. As example, I offer: I just spent two hours on the phone, helping a guy with his brand new Dell desktop. It worked great a couple of days ago, today IE7 says is...cannot display webage. All webpages...dead. Turned out he somehow turned on the windows firewall AND a third party firewall. Un-installing the second firewall got him backup and in business. I helped him configure the windows firewall as best as I could and recommend a few places to google for more information on firewall setups. Yeah, I helped fix a windows box... It took 2 hours... The guy was a total nubie... However, at the end of the session, he did take me up on my recommendation of using FireFox for general browsing and IE7 for those sites that absolutely have to have it. He also took me up on my offer of a free copy of a Live Linux DVD. There's a gold mine of new linux users/converts out there. They just have to be told that there really is CHOICE amongst OS's, browsers, etc... -- Jerry McBride -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Has Linux jumped the Shark?
Jerry McBride wrote: PURE Microsoft FUD... They are pulling out all the stops now, trying to block the advancement of Linux in any areas they can. The fact is, they are loosing big time, big money. Do a simple google safari for ie 7 and windows vista and read the posts from ordinary windows users (not the professional microsoft shills)... There's so much discontentment out there with microsoft products that Microsoft will never be able to quell it. It's a literal Linux Breeding Ground and Linux could fill their needs. If you guys and gals want to do some serious Linux advocating, start lending as much help as you can on the micosoft support usenet forums. Help as much as you can. If you are successful, then perhaps you've made a friend. If you fail at fixing their windows toys, offer them a free copy of linux... You may make a friend for life. As example, I offer: I just spent two hours on the phone, helping a guy with his brand new Dell desktop. It worked great a couple of days ago, today IE7 says is...cannot display webage. All webpages...dead. Turned out he somehow turned on the windows firewall AND a third party firewall. Un-installing the second firewall got him backup and in business. I helped him configure the windows firewall as best as I could and recommend a few places to google for more information on firewall setups. Yeah, I helped fix a windows box... It took 2 hours... The guy was a total nubie... However, at the end of the session, he did take me up on my recommendation of using FireFox for general browsing and IE7 for those sites that absolutely have to have it. He also took me up on my offer of a free copy of a Live Linux DVD. There's a gold mine of new linux users/converts out there. They just have to be told that there really is CHOICE amongst OS's, browsers, etc... -- Jerry McBride My Brother who knows nothing about puters uses windoze XP. The first thing I did was install Mozilla. I recently upgraded to Seamonkey though. He runs Norton on it and as far as I know he has only had one or two infections. Here are the rules I made for him. If you get a email with a attachment, send it to me first to look at. NEVER OPEN ANYTHING unless it is from me. NEVER install nothing if a window pops up, NEVER. Update the OS regularly. I usually get a alert and call him to run the updater. Keep Norton up to date. If it expires, keep the system offline until it is updated. He has been really lucky. I thank Seamonkey for a lot of that but those rules up there help too. I have seriously thought of putting Linux on that thing. Something like Mandriva or something. He wouldn't care. I also have a neighbor that stays broke. I sort of put a system together for him, monitor and all. I put Linux on it too. He loves it. It has a ton of card games that he had to buy for windoze and they were always crashing or locking up windoze on him. Linux may not be for everyone but there are a lot of people out there that can use Linux and never really know the difference. Let's educate these poor souls and get them off the monopoly drug. Dale :-) :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Has Linux jumped the Shark?
On 21 December 2006 04:32, Jeff Rollin wrote: Hi all A discussion on the staff blogs over at OSNews about the Linux desktop got me thinking. Thom and Eugenia seem to think that the linux desktop peaked in 2001-2004, but I don't remember the hype around Ubuntu starting till well after that. Their argument seemed to be that because GNOME is running into problems and because KDE is behind schedule, the Linux desktop is dead. What is this? First, Gentoo is thought to be unhealthy and now the whole Linux desktop is dead! Are people getting frustrated with the festive season and make up news about imminent catastrophes? I can not and will not comment on GNOME. Why is KDE behind schedule? Its next release, 3.5.6, is in feature, documentation and message freeze. It will be tagged in SVN on 15.01.2007. Sounds on schedule to me. Or is it about KDE4? AFAIK, there isn't even a complete road map to version 4 yet. No complete schedule means it can not be behind schedule. KDE's libraries have been ported to Qt4. Some apps are ported to the new libraries. Others will follow. A second developer snapshot was released in November. All the new technologies like Plasma, Solid, Decibel, Phonon and what not are on their way. So? Even if KDE were behind, how does that kill the Linux desktop? We just had to wait a wee bit longer before we could get our hands on those new technologies. KDE4 will happen in 2007, probably in its first half. Does it really matter whether it is released in March of June? Or even in September? I don't get it. Uwe -- A fast and easy generator of fractals for KDE: http://www.SysEx.com.na/iwy-1.0.tar.bz2 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Has Linux jumped the Shark?
Hey fellow Gentoo-ers. -Original Message- From: Norman Rieß [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 December 2006 06:01 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Has Linux jumped the Shark? Jeff Rollin schrieb: Their argument seemed to be that because GNOME is running into problems and because KDE is behind schedule, the Linux desktop is dead. How true is this? Jeff Like uh, we cannot finish this tiny feature here in 3 days as planned, so let us give up the whole project? :-) And Linux is more popular than ever and gaining users (correct me if i am wrong). Developement on Gnome and KDE is going on.. So i do not see how they could be dead. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list As long as someone uses Linux, and contributes code to it, it's alive IMO. In fact I would say that every month it becomes more and more useful and I only see Linux being behind on some gaming support and some other application specific support (eg the business I work for uses many applications that only run on windows, and I am not aware of linux equivelants). Linux is more than sufficient for the average home user who goes on the internet to sell their junk on ebay, writes emails to relatives far away and watches a couple of films and listens to a few music tracks. I would say it was far from dead. Even if the Linux kernel itself were to die the same set of apps (or at least a large percentage of them) that we use on our Linux boxes will work happily on BSD with some tweaking, surely :) David -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Has Linux jumped the Shark?
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 02:32:15 +, Jeff Rollin wrote: Their argument seemed to be that because GNOME is running into problems and because KDE is behind schedule, the Linux desktop is dead. STOP PRESS: KDE 4 is behind schedule and KDE 3.5 stops working as a result! Although how a project without a schedule can be behind it beats me. -- Neil Bothwick Windows 98, the most installed system in the world, I know, I've done it 5 or 6 times myself. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Has Linux jumped the Shark?
On AD 2006 December 21 Thursday 02:32:15 AM +, Jeff Rollin wrote: because GNOME is running into problems and because KDE is behind schedule, the Linux desktop is dead. Hahahaha! That's funny. Justin -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Has Linux jumped the Shark?
On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 21:03 -0700, Justin Findlay wrote: On AD 2006 December 21 Thursday 02:32:15 AM +, Jeff Rollin wrote: because GNOME is running into problems and because KDE is behind schedule, the Linux desktop is dead. Hahahaha! That's funny. Justin Would this be a good time to begin marketing Linux Desktop: Zombie Edition? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Has Linux jumped the Shark?
Jeff Rollin schrieb: Their argument seemed to be that because GNOME is running into problems and because KDE is behind schedule, the Linux desktop is dead. How true is this? Jeff Like uh, we cannot finish this tiny feature here in 3 days as planned, so let us give up the whole project? :-) And Linux is more popular than ever and gaining users (correct me if i am wrong). Developement on Gnome and KDE is going on.. So i do not see how they could be dead. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
