Re: [gentoo-user] Deprecated installed packages
On Thursday 20 May 2010 15:46:50 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:07:49 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: The root word it derives from basically means to make smaller or less important. Actually, in the Mother Tongue, it means to express disapproval of (I quote an Oxford English dictionary). You quote one of the three definitions in the OED. The second is plead earnestly against, which applies here. The third is pray against which applies just before removal fro the tree :) I don't have access to the OED; only to a NODE*, which gives only the definition I quoted. I assume from that that the other two are minor usages. And I still think express disapproval of is the meaning here. * New Oxford Dictionary of English, which I have seen severe criticisms of. -- Rgds Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Deprecated installed packages
On Fri, 21 May 2010 13:44:02 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: You quote one of the three definitions in the OED. The second is plead earnestly against, which applies here. The third is pray against which applies just before removal fro the tree :) I don't have access to the OED; only to a NODE*, which gives only the An OED is very useful for claiming the moral high ground in English usage arguments :) definition I quoted. I assume from that that the other two are minor usages. And I still think express disapproval of is the meaning here. I don't think any of them really fit, you could force 1 but equally 2. -- Neil Bothwick Blessed be the pessimist for he hath made backups. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Deprecated installed packages
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 07:38:43AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 20 May 2010 06:34:37 Willie Wong wrote: Hi list, I ran 'eclean-dist' last night (with no additional arguments) to clean out /usr/portage/distfiles. And it generated a bit of interesting output that I haven't seen before: The folowing Deprecated installed packages were found media-libs/libpng-1.2.43-r1 dev-python/reportlab-2.3-r1 app-i18n/gcin-1.4.7_pre17 sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-2.6.31-r9 dev-perl/URI-1.53 dev-java/sun-jdk-1.5.0.22 I don't see anything about this feature in 'man eclean'; does anyone know what this is all about? It means those package version are deprecated and you are encouraged to upgrade them. Ah... I see, I was trying to figure out what they meant by deprecated and how they determined it. It seems that the only thing common to those packages is that their ebuilds are no-longer in the tree. So I guess I'm not going to worry too much about it: if they haven't gotten updated regularly that probably means they are either bdeps or that they will be depcleaned the next time I do it. Cheers, W -- Willie W. Wong ww...@math.princeton.edu Data aequatione quotcunque fluentes quantitae involvente fluxiones invenire et vice versa ~~~ I. Newton
Re: [gentoo-user] Deprecated installed packages
On Thursday 20 May 2010 10:05:57 Willie Wong wrote: On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 07:38:43AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 20 May 2010 06:34:37 Willie Wong wrote: Hi list, I ran 'eclean-dist' last night (with no additional arguments) to clean out /usr/portage/distfiles. And it generated a bit of interesting output that I haven't seen before: The folowing Deprecated installed packages were found media-libs/libpng-1.2.43-r1 dev-python/reportlab-2.3-r1 app-i18n/gcin-1.4.7_pre17 sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-2.6.31-r9 dev-perl/URI-1.53 dev-java/sun-jdk-1.5.0.22 I don't see anything about this feature in 'man eclean'; does anyone know what this is all about? It means those package version are deprecated and you are encouraged to upgrade them. Ah... I see, I was trying to figure out what they meant by deprecated and how they determined it. It seems that the only thing common to those packages is that their ebuilds are no-longer in the tree. So I guess I'm not going to worry too much about it: if they haven't gotten updated regularly that probably means they are either bdeps or that they will be depcleaned the next time I do it. This word deprecated confuses tons of people. I don't know if it does that to you or not, but lots of other people read this list, so for their benefit here goes. deprecated means this package has been superceded by something else and although it is still available and works, you are encouraged to stop using it and upgrade. The intent is that eventually a deprecated package will go away. The root word it derives from basically means to make smaller or less important. It's not the same thing as depreciate or removed or obsolete or disappeared. Each one of those packages you list has more up to date versions available in the tree. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Deprecated installed packages
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 10:20:54AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Ah... I see, I was trying to figure out what they meant by deprecated and how they determined it. It seems that the only thing common to those packages is that their ebuilds are no-longer in the tree. Each one of those packages you list has more up to date versions available in the tree. Precisely. But the exact version that is installed is no longer in the tree. Seeing that I don't recall the portage system introducing a deprecated flag (short of the removal notice and package.mask), I was curious how eclean determined that those packages are deprecated. And also seeing that for many of the ones I listed, neither emerge --update --deep world nor emerge --update --deep --with-bdeps=y world suggest their updates, in my case they are probably just cruft that ought to go away once the system is brought up to date and I can run depclean. But am I wrong in my impression that with bdeps, the common thing to do is to update them only when absolutely necessary? So in this case the deprecation warning might introduce unnecessary cycles spent on building those packages (among those who don't want to track down the origins of those packages and just want the block of text to go away). Cheers, W -- Willie W. Wong ww...@math.princeton.edu Data aequatione quotcunque fluentes quantitae involvente fluxiones invenire et vice versa ~~~ I. Newton
Re: [gentoo-user] Deprecated installed packages
On Thursday 20 May 2010 11:36:46 Willie Wong wrote: On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 10:20:54AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Ah... I see, I was trying to figure out what they meant by deprecated and how they determined it. It seems that the only thing common to those packages is that their ebuilds are no-longer in the tree. Each one of those packages you list has more up to date versions available in the tree. Precisely. But the exact version that is installed is no longer in the tree. Seeing that I don't recall the portage system introducing a deprecated flag (short of the removal notice and package.mask), I was curious how eclean determined that those packages are deprecated. And also seeing that for many of the ones I listed, neither emerge --update --deep world nor emerge --update --deep --with-bdeps=y world suggest their updates, in my case they are probably just cruft that ought to go away once the system is brought up to date and I can run depclean. I remember something about a deprecated feature somewhere. Can't remember where now, and grep doesn't reveal it... But am I wrong in my impression that with bdeps, the common thing to do is to update them only when absolutely necessary? So in this case the deprecation warning might introduce unnecessary cycles spent on building those packages (among those who don't want to track down the origins of those packages and just want the block of text to go away). Yes, that's pretty much true. bdeps are are deps that are only used to build stuff, not run them. So portage will only update them when it needs to build something using them. You can use bdeps=y in make.conf but most folks just leave it at the sensible default. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Deprecated installed packages
On Thursday 20 May 2010 09:20:54 Alan McKinnon wrote: The root word it derives from basically means to make smaller or less important. Actually, in the Mother Tongue, it means to express disapproval of (I quote an Oxford English dictionary). It's not the same thing as depreciate or removed or obsolete or disappeared. Indeed, that is most certainly true. -- Rgds Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Deprecated installed packages
On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:07:49 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: The root word it derives from basically means to make smaller or less important. Actually, in the Mother Tongue, it means to express disapproval of (I quote an Oxford English dictionary). You quote one of the three definitions in the OED. The second is plead earnestly against, which applies here. The third is pray against which applies just before removal fro the tree :) -- Neil Bothwick 668 - The neighbour of the beast. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Deprecated installed packages
On Thursday 20 May 2010 06:34:37 Willie Wong wrote: Hi list, I ran 'eclean-dist' last night (with no additional arguments) to clean out /usr/portage/distfiles. And it generated a bit of interesting output that I haven't seen before: The folowing Deprecated installed packages were found media-libs/libpng-1.2.43-r1 dev-python/reportlab-2.3-r1 app-i18n/gcin-1.4.7_pre17 sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-2.6.31-r9 dev-perl/URI-1.53 dev-java/sun-jdk-1.5.0.22 I don't see anything about this feature in 'man eclean'; does anyone know what this is all about? It means those package version are deprecated and you are encouraged to upgrade them. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
