Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
On Wednesday, 20 May 2020 17:40:31 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Wednesday, 20 May 2020 17:16:57 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > > On Wednesday, 20 May 2020 16:59:35 BST Walter Dnes wrote: > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 01:53:03PM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote > > > > > > > I see what you mean. I'm just remerging @world with -nls, but it > > > > causes 95 rebuilds, including a lot of kde-frameworks packages, > > > > so I've copied my packages directory in case your fear is borne > > > > out. I'll let you know. > > > > > > > I run with "-nls" in make.conf, but in package.use I throw in > > > > > > "media-fonts/* nls" in order to keep xfreecell happy. > > > > Good idea. > > > > Time will tell whether plasma has lost anything. > > I meant to add that the only Russian language file I pruned by setting -nls > is /usr/share/binutils-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/2.34/locale/ru. Binutils > was remerged, so that one should have gone. Everything else is still there: > > # find / -xdev -name ru > /usr/share/help/ru > /usr/share/man/ru > /usr/share/espeak-data/voices/europe/ru > /usr/share/kf5/kdoctools/customization/ru > /usr/share/kf5/locale/countries/ru > /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ru > /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/sun_vndr/ru > /usr/lib64/libreoffice/help/media/icon-themes/cmd/ru > /opt/zoom/timezones/ru > > I assume all those packages ignore language settings. That file /usr/share/ > help/ru belongs to kdoctools, which has just been remerged with -nls, so it > is clearly guilty. Likewise kconfigwidgets and app-editors/joe, which both > install /usr/share/man/ru. > > I can't evict espeak because two KDE PIM packages require it. You can, unless you need speech-dispatcher. $ grep espeak -r /etc/portage/ /etc/portage/package.use/espeak.use:app-accessibility/speech-dispatcher - espeak > Internationalisation has some way to go yet, it seems - or do I mean > localisation? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
On Wednesday, 20 May 2020 17:16:57 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Wednesday, 20 May 2020 16:59:35 BST Walter Dnes wrote: > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 01:53:03PM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote > > > > > I see what you mean. I'm just remerging @world with -nls, but it > > > causes 95 rebuilds, including a lot of kde-frameworks packages, > > > so I've copied my packages directory in case your fear is borne > > > out. I'll let you know. > > > > > I run with "-nls" in make.conf, but in package.use I throw in > > > > "media-fonts/* nls" in order to keep xfreecell happy. > > Good idea. > > Time will tell whether plasma has lost anything. I meant to add that the only Russian language file I pruned by setting -nls is /usr/share/binutils-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/2.34/locale/ru. Binutils was remerged, so that one should have gone. Everything else is still there: # find / -xdev -name ru /usr/share/help/ru /usr/share/man/ru /usr/share/espeak-data/voices/europe/ru /usr/share/kf5/kdoctools/customization/ru /usr/share/kf5/locale/countries/ru /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ru /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/sun_vndr/ru /usr/lib64/libreoffice/help/media/icon-themes/cmd/ru /opt/zoom/timezones/ru I assume all those packages ignore language settings. That file /usr/share/ help/ru belongs to kdoctools, which has just been remerged with -nls, so it is clearly guilty. Likewise kconfigwidgets and app-editors/joe, which both install /usr/share/man/ru. I can't evict espeak because two KDE PIM packages require it. Internationalisation has some way to go yet, it seems - or do I mean localisation? -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
On Wednesday, 20 May 2020 16:59:35 BST Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 01:53:03PM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote > > > I see what you mean. I'm just remerging @world with -nls, but it > > causes 95 rebuilds, including a lot of kde-frameworks packages, > > so I've copied my packages directory in case your fear is borne > > out. I'll let you know. > > I run with "-nls" in make.conf, but in package.use I throw in > "media-fonts/* nls" in order to keep xfreecell happy. Good idea. Time will tell whether plasma has lost anything. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 01:53:03PM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote > > I see what you mean. I'm just remerging @world with -nls, but it > causes 95 rebuilds, including a lot of kde-frameworks packages, > so I've copied my packages directory in case your fear is borne > out. I'll let you know. I run with "-nls" in make.conf, but in package.use I throw in "media-fonts/* nls" in order to keep xfreecell happy. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
On Wed, 20 May 2020 13:53:03 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > And searching for other language codes irrelevant to me gives > > similar results. I've already thought about adding "-nls" to the > > global USE flags, but I'm fearing to lose "en-GB" that way. > > I see what you mean. I'm just remerging @world with -nls, but it causes > 95 rebuilds, including a lot of kde-frameworks packages, so I've copied > my packages directory in case your fear is borne out. I'll let you know. I've run systems without nls in the past and it works well, after all OUR English is a native language ;-) Seriously though, nls enables support for different character sets AFAIR. I've been running with en-GB for years and haven't had the problems the OP reported. For example, the shadow ebuild only includes the English man page. As a kludge, you can use INSTALL_MASK to block installation of other languages, but finding the cause of this behaviour would be preferable. -- Neil Bothwick Voting Democrat or Republican is like choosing a cabin in the Titanic. pgpSEVypeONvt.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
On Wednesday, 20 May 2020 12:42:03 BST Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > Peter, sorry for the late reply :-( > > On Monday, 2020-05-04 16:30:49 +0100, you wrote: > > ... > > What do you have in your kernel config, under File Systems / Native > > Language Support? I only have a few selected: the ones I might use. (This > > may be a red herring.) > > Only these: > > (utf8) Default NLS Option > <*> Codepage 437 (United States, Canada) > <*> ASCII (United States) > <*> NLS ISO 8859-1 (Latin 1; Western European Languages) > <*> NLS UTF-8 > > But just as an example: > ># find / -xdev -type d -name ru >/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/mercurial/locale/ru >/usr/lib64/libreoffice/help/media/icon-themes/cmd/ru >/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mercurial/locale/ru >/usr/share/help/ru >/usr/share/gimp/2.0/help/ru >/usr/share/vim/vim82/lang/ru >/usr/share/man/ru >/usr/share/binutils-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/2.33.1/locale/ru >/usr/share/locale/ru >/usr/share/gcc-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/9.3.0/locale/ru >/var/cache/man/ru ># > > And searching for other language codes irrelevant to me gives similar > results. I've already thought about adding "-nls" to the global USE > flags, but I'm fearing to lose "en-GB" that way. I see what you mean. I'm just remerging @world with -nls, but it causes 95 rebuilds, including a lot of kde-frameworks packages, so I've copied my packages directory in case your fear is borne out. I'll let you know. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
Peter, sorry for the late reply :-( On Monday, 2020-05-04 16:30:49 +0100, you wrote: > ... > What do you have in your kernel config, under File Systems / Native Language > Support? I only have a few selected: the ones I might use. (This may be a red > herring.) Only these: (utf8) Default NLS Option <*> Codepage 437 (United States, Canada) <*> ASCII (United States) <*> NLS ISO 8859-1 (Latin 1; Western European Languages) <*> NLS UTF-8 But just as an example: # find / -xdev -type d -name ru /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/mercurial/locale/ru /usr/lib64/libreoffice/help/media/icon-themes/cmd/ru /usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mercurial/locale/ru /usr/share/help/ru /usr/share/gimp/2.0/help/ru /usr/share/vim/vim82/lang/ru /usr/share/man/ru /usr/share/binutils-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/2.33.1/locale/ru /usr/share/locale/ru /usr/share/gcc-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/9.3.0/locale/ru /var/cache/man/ru # And searching for other language codes irrelevant to me gives similar results. I've already thought about adding "-nls" to the global USE flags, but I'm fearing to lose "en-GB" that way. Any further thoughts anybody? Sincerely, Rainer
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
On Mon, May 4, 2020, at 20:11, Michael Jones wrote: > I can't find any documentation on the use of "LANG" or "LANGUAGE" in > /etc/portage/make.conf. > > I'm looking here: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki//etc/portage/make.conf#LINGUAS > > Is there another source that describes these variables and how to use them? Please see: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Localization/Guide -- https://fturco.net/
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:31 AM Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Monday, 4 May 2020 15:08:12 BST Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > > Here are mine for comparison: > > # grep -E '^(LANG|LC_|L10)' /etc/portage/make.conf > L10N="en-GB en" > LANG="en_GB.UTF-8" > LANGUAGE="en_GB.UTF-8" > > I can't find any documentation on the use of "LANG" or "LANGUAGE" in /etc/portage/make.conf. I'm looking here: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki//etc/portage/make.conf#LINGUAS Is there another source that describes these variables and how to use them?
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
On Monday, 4 May 2020 15:08:12 BST Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: Here are mine for comparison: # grep -E '^(LANG|LC_|L10)' /etc/portage/make.conf L10N="en-GB en" LANG="en_GB.UTF-8" LANGUAGE="en_GB.UTF-8" # env | grep -E '^(LANG|LC_|L10)' LANG=en_GB.utf8 # locale -a C C.utf8 en_GB en_GB.iso88591 en_GB.iso885915 en_GB.utf8 POSIX # localedef --list-archive C.utf8 en_GB en_GB.iso88591 en_GB.iso885915 en_GB.utf8 ># grep -E '^(LANG|LC_|L10)' /etc/portage/make.conf >L10N="en-GB" >LANG="en_GB" >LC_MESSAGES="C" ># env | grep -E '^(LANG|LC_|L10)' >LANG=en_GB.utf8 >LANGUAGE=en_GB:en_US:en >LC_ADDRESS=en_GB.UTF-8 >LC_COLLATE=C >LC_IDENTIFICATION=en_GB.UTF-8 >LC_MEASUREMENT=en_GB.UTF-8 >LC_MONETARY=en_GB.UTF-8 >LC_NAME=en_GB.UTF-8 >LC_NUMERIC=en_GB.UTF-8 >LC_PAPER=en_GB.UTF-8 >LC_TELEPHONE=en_GB.UTF-8 >LC_TIME=en_GB.UTF-8 ># locale -a >C >C.utf8 >POSIX >en_GB.utf8 ># localedef --list-archive >C.utf8 >en_GB.utf8 What do you have in your kernel config, under File Systems / Native Language Support? I only have a few selected: the ones I might use. (This may be a red herring.) -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
Michael, On Thursday, 2020-04-30 16:43:06 +0100, you wrote: > ... > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Localization/Guide#L10N > > Meanwhile, I think the equivalent to debian's localepurge corresponds to a > dual step process in Gentoo. First update your locale as per above page, > then > run 'env-update && source /etc/profile', followed by 'localegen'. Then if > you > have also setup additional localisations in L10N, you need to run emerge with > option --newuse, or --changeduse to take account per package or global > changes > in the L10N USE settings. Doesn't seem to work: # grep -E '^(LANG|LC_|L10)' /etc/portage/make.conf L10N="en-GB" LANG="en_GB" LC_MESSAGES="C" # env | grep -E '^(LANG|LC_|L10)' LANG=en_GB.utf8 LANGUAGE=en_GB:en_US:en LC_ADDRESS=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_COLLATE=C LC_IDENTIFICATION=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_MEASUREMENT=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_NAME=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_NUMERIC=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_PAPER=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_TELEPHONE=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_TIME=en_GB.UTF-8 # locale -a C C.utf8 POSIX en_GB.utf8 # localedef --list-archive C.utf8 en_GB.utf8 # emerge --ask --changed-deps --deep --newuse --update \ --verbose-conflicts --with-bdeps=y @world These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild rR ~] dev-libs/libjcat-0.1.1 Would you like to merge these packages? [Yes/No] no Quitting. Package "dev-libs/libjcat" does in fact have a "man" USE flag, and it provides a single manual page, "/usr/share/man/man1/jcat-tool.1.bz2". I don't know for sure though whether my adding 'LANG="en_GB"' to "/etc/ portage/make.conf" and doing all the magic in the Gentoo Locaization Guide caused Portage's desire to re-emerge that package or something totally different. But there are other packages installed with the "man" USE flag, which didn't even flinch. In particular there is package "sys-apps/shadow" which among other things provides the "passwd" command and which doesn't honour the "man" USE flag at all, but is quite polyglot: # cd /usr/share/man # find . -type f -name 'passwd*' ./ru/man1/passwd.1.bz2 ./man1/passwd.1.bz2 ./sv/man1/passwd.1.bz2 ./man3/passwd2des.3 ./ja/man1/passwd.1.bz2 ./it/man1/passwd.1.bz2 ./fr/man1/passwd.1.bz2 ./hu/man1/passwd.1.bz2 ./de/man1/passwd.1.bz2 ./tr/man1/passwd.1.bz2 ./zh_CN/man1/passwd.1.bz2 ./man5/passwd.5.bz2 # So the question how to get rid of all these unnecessary languages is still open. Sincerely, Rainer
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 10:15:54AM -0500, Dale wrote: > >> These settings are from AGES ago. I think they are still in use tho. >> >> root@fireball / # cat /etc/make.conf | grep lang >> LANG="en_US" >> root@fireball / # cat /etc/make.conf | grep L10N >> L10N="en en-US" > Just to scratch an itch: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_(Unix)#Useless_use_of_cat > > ;-) > But it works just fine. ;-) lol Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 10:15:54AM -0500, Dale wrote: > These settings are from AGES ago. I think they are still in use tho. > > root@fireball / # cat /etc/make.conf | grep lang > LANG="en_US" > root@fireball / # cat /etc/make.conf | grep L10N > L10N="en en-US" Just to scratch an itch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_(Unix)#Useless_use_of_cat ;-) -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’ Save the whales, eat more Japanese! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
On Thursday, 30 April 2020 16:43:06 BST Michael wrote: > On Thursday, 30 April 2020 16:15:54 BST Dale wrote: > > Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > > > On Thursday, 2020-04-30 07:31:51 -0500, Dale wrote: > > >> ... > > >> [ebuild R] app-doc/gimp-help-2.8.2:2::gentoo 0 KiB > > > > > > Thanks for pointing me to a package I hadn't yet installed, even though > > > I have installed "media-gfx/gimp" (but use it rarely). But installation > > > took surprisingly long because it included tons of messages in unneeded > > > laguages. I have L10N="en-GB" in my "make.conf" file, but this only > > > seems to request additional languages. > > > > > > Is there a way to exclude megabytes of message texts or manual pages in > > > languages I don't understand anyway from being installed, something like > > > "L10N="-* en-GB"? And is there a way to again remove unnecessary lang- > > > uages after they have been installed? > > > > > > Under Ubuntu I used to use a package named "localepurge" which did both. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Rainer > > > > These settings are from AGES ago. I think they are still in use tho. > > > > > > root@fireball / # cat /etc/make.conf | grep lang > > LANG="en_US" > > root@fireball / # cat /etc/make.conf | grep L10N > > L10N="en en-US" > > root@fireball / # > > > > You would replace US with GB of course. Oh, I put a link from > > /etc/make.conf to the real one. I'm used to the old location. :/ > > > Unless this page is out of date L10N USE expansion variable can be set > either at make.conf, or on a per package basis: > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Localization/Guide#L10N > > Meanwhile, I think the equivalent to debian's localepurge corresponds to a > dual step process in Gentoo. First update your locale as per above page, > then run 'env-update && source /etc/profile', followed by 'localegen'. > Then if you have also setup additional localisations in L10N, you need to > run emerge with option --newuse, or --changeduse to take account per > package or global changes in the L10N USE settings. I wondered whether gimp would just include all manner of junk regardless, so I checked what's installed here. It seems that setting locales in make.conf does indeed help - no excess languages here; just 2600 icons! -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
On Thursday, 30 April 2020 16:15:54 BST Dale wrote: > Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > > Greetings, > > > > On Thursday, 2020-04-30 07:31:51 -0500, Dale wrote: > >> ... > >> [ebuild R] app-doc/gimp-help-2.8.2:2::gentoo 0 KiB > > > > Thanks for pointing me to a package I hadn't yet installed, even though > > I have installed "media-gfx/gimp" (but use it rarely). But installation > > took surprisingly long because it included tons of messages in unneeded > > laguages. I have L10N="en-GB" in my "make.conf" file, but this only > > seems to request additional languages. > > > > Is there a way to exclude megabytes of message texts or manual pages in > > languages I don't understand anyway from being installed, something like > > "L10N="-* en-GB"? And is there a way to again remove unnecessary lang- > > uages after they have been installed? > > > > Under Ubuntu I used to use a package named "localepurge" which did both. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Rainer > > These settings are from AGES ago. I think they are still in use tho. > > > root@fireball / # cat /etc/make.conf | grep lang > LANG="en_US" > root@fireball / # cat /etc/make.conf | grep L10N > L10N="en en-US" > root@fireball / # > > > You would replace US with GB of course. Oh, I put a link from > /etc/make.conf to the real one. I'm used to the old location. :/ > > That help? > > Dale > > :-) :-) Unless this page is out of date L10N USE expansion variable can be set either at make.conf, or on a per package basis: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Localization/Guide#L10N Meanwhile, I think the equivalent to debian's localepurge corresponds to a dual step process in Gentoo. First update your locale as per above page, then run 'env-update && source /etc/profile', followed by 'localegen'. Then if you have also setup additional localisations in L10N, you need to run emerge with option --newuse, or --changeduse to take account per package or global changes in the L10N USE settings. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of unwanted languages (Was: Re: gimp help not available, even with USE doc)
Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > Greetings, > > On Thursday, 2020-04-30 07:31:51 -0500, Dale wrote: > >> ... >> [ebuild R ] app-doc/gimp-help-2.8.2:2::gentoo 0 KiB > Thanks for pointing me to a package I hadn't yet installed, even though > I have installed "media-gfx/gimp" (but use it rarely). But installation > took surprisingly long because it included tons of messages in unneeded > laguages. I have L10N="en-GB" in my "make.conf" file, but this only > seems to request additional languages. > > Is there a way to exclude megabytes of message texts or manual pages in > languages I don't understand anyway from being installed, something like > "L10N="-* en-GB"? And is there a way to again remove unnecessary lang- > uages after they have been installed? > > Under Ubuntu I used to use a package named "localepurge" which did both. > > Sincerely, > Rainer > > > These settings are from AGES ago. I think they are still in use tho. root@fireball / # cat /etc/make.conf | grep lang LANG="en_US" root@fireball / # cat /etc/make.conf | grep L10N L10N="en en-US" root@fireball / # You would replace US with GB of course. Oh, I put a link from /etc/make.conf to the real one. I'm used to the old location. :/ That help? Dale :-) :-)
