Re: [gentoo-user] xorg-x11 7.0 or 6.8. What of then is better ?
JimD a gentiment tapote: However, I do like being able to customize my system and Gentoo gives me a very nice way to do that. The only current issue I with Gentoo that I want to address is a recovery option. I will probably post a thread on that topic soon. I have about 1GB in /usr/portage/packages so I guess I can back that up. However, I want a faster method to restore than I currently can do with Gentoo. If I lost my system now, it would mean rebuilding my base system and the would leave me without a functioning system for a while. With Ubunutu, I would be back up with a base system in 30 mins. Jim Hi, I backup and restore my Gentoo system with Partimage and the SysRescueCd live CD. It is very easy to use and it takes about 30 minutes to restore my system (/ , usr/, boot and home). http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page Regards --- Ptitjack -- ^ ^^^ ^ ( 0 0 ) \/ ---- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] xorg-x11 7.0 or 6.8. What of then is better ?
Ptitjack wrote: Hi, I backup and restore my Gentoo system with Partimage and the SysRescueCd live CD. It is very easy to use and it takes about 30 minutes to restore my system (/ , usr/, boot and home). http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page Regards --- Ptitjack -- Thanks. I will check that out : ) Jim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= There's no place like 127.0.0.1 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= JimD Central FL, USA, Earth, Sol -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] xorg-x11 7.0 or 6.8. What of then is better ?
In my recent experience the frequent changes to the xorg7 versions in portage are getting pretty hairy. I have been constantly adding things to package.keywords and package.unmask every time I do a world upgrade. And then it got 1000 times worse... Yesterday I did an emerge -u world which upgraded xorg-server-1.0.2-r3 to 1.0.2-r4. The result was a non-working xserver. I tried to roll back to 1.0.2-r3 and found that it had already been removed from portage. I then tried the only other available ebuild (1.0.99 or something) and found that that did not work either. The bug report is #132598 if you want to see whether things improve in this department. In other words I have no X at all at the moment and I am composing this email on my wife's powerbook using yahoo webmail, which really sucks. Stick with 6.8.2 for the time being. 7 works a little better with wine, but overall it is the kind of pain in the arse that shoots most of the way back up your digestive tract. Robert On 5/4/06, Allan Spagnol Comar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list, I am instaling a new gentoo box with x86, and I have a doubt about instaling xorg, I know that 7.0 is masked but almost getting stable, and I know that migrating from one another is a little traumatic, so Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] xorg-x11 7.0 or 6.8. What of then is better ?
Robert Persson wrote: Stick with 6.8.2 for the time being. 7 works a little better with wine, but overall it is the kind of pain in the arse that shoots most of the way back up your digestive tract. Robert Or stick with xorg-7 and don't do all the little updates? If i have a working package, I won't do an update unless the *package* changes. For example I wouldn't update a working foo-1.0-r1 to foo-1.0-r2. I would (probably) do an update to foo-1.0.1 or something. The approach I have learned to take with Gentoo is to keep my important apps stable. I don't update courier or postfix often. I will go and see what the update does and if it is something I need. If it is a minor update that corrects handling of Chinese characters during a full moon, I won't grab it. I keep gnome at the latest official stable version. For apps that are beta quality, I keep those that the latest version. For example I unmask and use the latest monodevelop. Gentoo can be a very nice stable system or a pulling-out-your-hair-why-did-I-do-that-upgrade system. Pick which one you want :) Jim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= There's no place like 127.0.0.1 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= JimD Central FL, USA, Earth, Sol -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] xorg-x11 7.0 or 6.8. What of then is better ?
On Sunday 07 May 2006 11:31 JimD was like: Or stick with xorg-7 and don't do all the little updates? If i have a working package, I won't do an update unless the *package* changes. For example I wouldn't update a working foo-1.0-r1 to foo-1.0-r2. I would (probably) do an update to foo-1.0.1 or something. The approach I have learned to take with Gentoo is to keep my important apps stable. I don't update courier or postfix often. I will go and see what the update does and if it is something I need. If it is a minor update that corrects handling of Chinese characters during a full moon, I won't grab it. I keep gnome at the latest official stable version. For apps that are beta quality, I keep those that the latest version. For example I unmask and use the latest monodevelop. Gentoo can be a very nice stable system or a pulling-out-your-hair-why-did-I-do-that-upgrade system. Pick which one you want :) One problem with gentoo is that there is no easy way to distinguish a security-related upgrade from something less important. It's not a problem you get with SuSE or Ubuntu. This is one of the reasons why I have just gone along with whatever emerge -avu world threw my way, though, as it happens, the xorg update that caused me all this trouble was just such a security update. The problem seems to have ironed itself out now, after two upgrades and one rollback, but it was not nice to have a non-functioning system for a few hours. And I got a pretty useless response to my bug report. Generally I am finding administering gentoo way too time-consuming, while the theoretical benefits in terms of performance are not materialising. For instance I am sure that with a lot more tweaking I can get great low-latency performance, but I am beginning to think that I would be better off simply changing distro to Demudi or Fedora/Planet CCRMA and getting the low-latency stuff pre-packaged and ready to roll. Perhaps it might be useful to build glibc and a few other libraries from source, but do I really need to build gimp from source when I don't use it that much? I think it's time I stopped spending all my time tweaking and troubleshooting my system and actually got some work done. That said, the plus side to gentoo is excellent documentation (particularly the howtos), a very down-to-earth and helpful user community, and the ability to install all kinds of bleeding edge or obscure packages if I really need them (which often I do). Hmm. Decisions decisions. Robert -- Robert Persson Conspiracy Bears: Once upon a time there were lots of conspiracy bears... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] xorg-x11 7.0 or 6.8. What of then is better ?
Robert Persson wrote: On Sunday 07 May 2006 11:31 JimD was like: Or stick with xorg-7 and don't do all the little updates? If i have a working package, I won't do an update unless the *package* changes. For example I wouldn't update a working foo-1.0-r1 to foo-1.0-r2. I would (probably) do an update to foo-1.0.1 or something. The approach I have learned to take with Gentoo is to keep my important apps stable. I don't update courier or postfix often. I will go and see what the update does and if it is something I need. If it is a minor update that corrects handling of Chinese characters during a full moon, I won't grab it. I keep gnome at the latest official stable version. For apps that are beta quality, I keep those that the latest version. For example I unmask and use the latest monodevelop. Gentoo can be a very nice stable system or a pulling-out-your-hair-why-did-I-do-that-upgrade system. Pick which one you want :) One problem with gentoo is that there is no easy way to distinguish a security-related upgrade from something less important. It's not a problem you get with SuSE or Ubuntu. This is one of the reasons why I have just gone along with whatever emerge -avu world threw my way, though, as it happens, the xorg update that caused me all this trouble was just such a security update. The problem seems to have ironed itself out now, after two upgrades and one rollback, but it was not nice to have a non-functioning system for a few hours. And I got a pretty useless response to my bug report. Generally I am finding administering gentoo way too time-consuming, while the theoretical benefits in terms of performance are not materialising. For instance I am sure that with a lot more tweaking I can get great low-latency performance, but I am beginning to think that I would be better off simply changing distro to Demudi or Fedora/Planet CCRMA and getting the low-latency stuff pre-packaged and ready to roll. Perhaps it might be useful to build glibc and a few other libraries from source, but do I really need to build gimp from source when I don't use it that much? I think it's time I stopped spending all my time tweaking and troubleshooting my system and actually got some work done. That said, the plus side to gentoo is excellent documentation (particularly the howtos), a very down-to-earth and helpful user community, and the ability to install all kinds of bleeding edge or obscure packages if I really need them (which often I do). Hmm. Decisions decisions. Robert I agree 100% I did the Linux from scratch thing for a while. Then I realized I spend *more* time maintaining linux from scratch then actually using it. I then did Fedora for a while. I will always like Fedora because RH was my first distro and I am use to the RH-way of things. However I got tired the bloat and rpm repo conflicts. I couldn't get MP3, mplayer and other media stuff from fedora so I would have to use different repos and run in to conflicts. In between the above two I did Gentoo for a while. I then did Ubuntu and loved apt. So simple. I was a happy camper until I ran into the one big issue with binary distros I call the out-dated-package syndrome. The mono packages including mod_mono for apache were old and required apache1 while I wanted apache2. After running into issues with wanting newer versions of packages under ubuntu, I came back to Gentoo about 3 months ago. So far I don't spend too much time maintaining. I just don't do an update too often. I did just try the newest version of Ubuntu and have to say it is *very* nice. Everything on my laptop worked OTB. However, I do like being able to customize my system and Gentoo gives me a very nice way to do that. The only current issue I with Gentoo that I want to address is a recovery option. I will probably post a thread on that topic soon. I have about 1GB in /usr/portage/packages so I guess I can back that up. However, I want a faster method to restore than I currently can do with Gentoo. If I lost my system now, it would mean rebuilding my base system and the would leave me without a functioning system for a while. With Ubunutu, I would be back up with a base system in 30 mins. Jim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= There's no place like 127.0.0.1 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= JimD Central FL, USA, Earth, Sol -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] xorg-x11 7.0 or 6.8. What of then is better ?
On Sunday 07 May 2006 22:07 Philip Webb was like: glsa-check -l | grep \[N\] Thanks for that. That will be handy. On the other hand it failed to report the security hole that is supposed to have been the reason for the xorg-server update that caused me all that grief earlier today, which is worrying; and it is still far short of the no-brain no-stress update automation you get with apt or yast. -- Robert Persson Conspiracy Bears: Once upon a time there were lots of conspiracy bears... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] xorg-x11 7.0 or 6.8. What of then is better ?
thanks for the explanation. On 5/5/06, Daniel da Veiga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/4/06, Allan Spagnol Comar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list, I am instaling a new gentoo box with x86, and I have a doubt about instaling xorg, I know that 7.0 is masked but almost getting stable, and I know that migrating from one another is a little traumatic, so here is my question, I got a ATI radeon x300 video board on a fast AMD processor with 1GB of RAM, should I install 7.0 from begin or should I put 6.8 first and wait to 7.0 go stable ? This is the same as asking: Will I have problems with the testing tree? And there's no real answers. I know at least a dozen people running ~arch with no problems AT ALL (I stick with the stable), but in the other hand we see everyday people complaining about problems with the testing tree and if you go to bugzilla you'll find out that testing is really for testing in some cases (but not all of them). If its still testing, its because there are issues OR it hasn't been tested long enough to declare it stable. So, its up to you decide wether you want it or not. I got Xorg 7 when it was still hard masked FOR A GOOD REASON (my chipset was better supported). But at work I use an nvidia card, and I'm still at the 6.8 series. Do you have good reasons? If not, wait for it to get stable, this MAY save you some trouble. The real question here is: If it ain't broke, why fix it? Specially cause the fix may break it... ;) Anyway, It's just MHO. thanks, Allan -- An application asked: Requeires Windows 9x, NT4 or better, so I´ve installed Linux -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Daniel da Veiga Computer Operator - RS - Brazil -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V- PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- An application asked: Requeires Windows 9x, NT4 or better, so I´ve installed Linux -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] xorg-x11 7.0 or 6.8. What of then is better ?
On 05/05/06, Allan Spagnol Comar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thanks for the explanation. On 5/5/06, Daniel da Veiga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/4/06, Allan Spagnol Comar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if not, wait for it to get stable, this MAY save you some trouble. The real question here is: If it ain't broke, why fix it? Specially cause the fix may break it... ;) On the other hand, this is a new installation. It's not as if months of configuring and setting your desktop are going to be lost (they wouldn't be lost anyway, even if you were trying this on an older installation). If I were you and I had time to play with setting up twice over, I would probably give it a go - you only have time to lose and some bandwidth for the downloads if it doesn't work. Just add it to your package.keywords and try it out. However, please note that on my desktop I am using stable! -- Regards, Mick -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] xorg-x11 7.0 or 6.8. What of then is better ?
On 5/4/06, Allan Spagnol Comar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list, I am instaling a new gentoo box with x86, and I have a doubt about instaling xorg, I know that 7.0 is masked but almost getting stable, and I know that migrating from one another is a little traumatic, so here is my question, I got a ATI radeon x300 video board on a fast AMD processor with 1GB of RAM, should I install 7.0 from begin or should I put 6.8 first and wait to 7.0 go stable ? This is the same as asking: Will I have problems with the testing tree? And there's no real answers. I know at least a dozen people running ~arch with no problems AT ALL (I stick with the stable), but in the other hand we see everyday people complaining about problems with the testing tree and if you go to bugzilla you'll find out that testing is really for testing in some cases (but not all of them). If its still testing, its because there are issues OR it hasn't been tested long enough to declare it stable. So, its up to you decide wether you want it or not. I got Xorg 7 when it was still hard masked FOR A GOOD REASON (my chipset was better supported). But at work I use an nvidia card, and I'm still at the 6.8 series. Do you have good reasons? If not, wait for it to get stable, this MAY save you some trouble. The real question here is: If it ain't broke, why fix it? Specially cause the fix may break it... ;) Anyway, It's just MHO. thanks, Allan -- An application asked: Requeires Windows 9x, NT4 or better, so I´ve installed Linux -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Daniel da Veiga Computer Operator - RS - Brazil -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V- PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
