Me too!
Thanks DP! where would we be without you! What happens when Nitro kicks in then? another re-write of Get_Iplayer? Steve ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Me too!
On Tue, Nov 04, 2014 at 08:00:25AM +, Steve wrote: What happens when Nitro kicks in then? another re-write of Get_Iplayer? Well, get_iplayer as it stands probably stops working. Whether it's going to be possible to replace it, we don't know until someone outside the BBC can actually try the new thing. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 4 November 2014 01:51, Peter S Kirk peter.k...@isauk.biz wrote: Email a complaint to the Ministry of Fun aka Incredibly ill-though out idea. regarding: 1. The double speak in: ...designed to clamp down on clients such as XBMC or get_iplayer, which allow programmes to be watched or recorded. The iPlayer team continues to work hard to maximise access to the iPlayer across a wide range of platforms and devices. What they ACTUALLY wrote: The iPlayer RSS feeds were never designed or intended to support them, Billings added. Nitro will almost certainly not support their ways of working. Do you really not see the difference between what you wrote - designed to clamp down on - and what the beeb wrote - were never designed or intended to support? It's this kind of knee-jerk, butt-hurt everyone on the outrage bus reaction which'll get this whole project shut down, if anything does. The answer lies in intelligent technical resolutions, not teenage rebellious emails to an entirely irrelevant government body. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 04/11/14 01:51, Peter S Kirk wrote: After all, GiP is no different from the old method of recording TV to VCR or Radio to cassette tape. Isn't that the point, by using GIP we are only using another type of recording device to record content from the BBC. I could buy a DigitalTV today, connect a external HD to it and record digital TV and store it for as long I wish. The only difference by using GIP is that I am recording programs that have been aired in the past 30 days, not live broadcasts. Would it be worth trying to start some dialogue with the BBC (not sure if this has already been tried ?) to see if there is a way they (GIP developers) could work together and have GIP as a recognised 3rd party product or just accepted for Nitro. As it has proved in the last few days, the BBC changes things people will find a way to get over these changes, by closing doors, it only makes people more determined. If the BBC wanted to they could shut down GIP today by appling DRM to all content streaming (like Netflix and Prime) so I cannot see by starting any dialogue, how that would change anything as they already know about GIP, we are not telling them something they don't know about. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
I'm amazed at these discussions. The issue for the BBC is one of the protection of intellectual property. Yes, the problem has been around since recording devices became available but since the advent of digital technology it has spiralled out of all belief as a problem to the copyright holder. Digital gives us the unprecedented ability to make a perfect copy, not a lossy copy as with tape (whether audio or video). It enables us to make copies faster than ever before, even without ever holding that medium in one's hands. We've seen how the film studios have been clamping down on piracy. The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. Don't get me wrong, I am a massive fan of get_iplayer, but I think protestations of the sort described in these threads will fall on deaf ears. Just be thankful we have people with the technical ability to keep up with whatever barriers are put our way! Alan On 04/11/2014 09:18, wacla...@btconnect.com wrote: On 04/11/14 01:51, Peter S Kirk wrote: After all, GiP is no different from the old method of recording TV to VCR or Radio to cassette tape. Isn't that the point, by using GIP we are only using another type of recording device to record content from the BBC. I could buy a DigitalTV today, connect a external HD to it and record digital TV and store it for as long I wish. The only difference by using GIP is that I am recording programs that have been aired in the past 30 days, not live broadcasts. Would it be worth trying to start some dialogue with the BBC (not sure if this has already been tried ?) to see if there is a way they (GIP developers) could work together and have GIP as a recognised 3rd party product or just accepted for Nitro. As it has proved in the last few days, the BBC changes things people will find a way to get over these changes, by closing doors, it only makes people more determined. If the BBC wanted to they could shut down GIP today by appling DRM to all content streaming (like Netflix and Prime) so I cannot see by starting any dialogue, how that would change anything as they already know about GIP, we are not telling them something they don't know about. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 04/11/14 09:54, Alan Milewczyk wrote: I'm amazed at these discussions. The issue for the BBC is one of the protection of intellectual property. Yes, the problem has been around since recording devices became available but since the advent of digital technology it has spiralled out of all belief as a problem to the copyright holder. Digital gives us the unprecedented ability to make a perfect copy, not a lossy copy as with tape (whether audio or video). It enables us to make copies faster than ever before, even without ever holding that medium in one's hands. We've seen how the film studios have been clamping down on piracy. The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. Don't get me wrong, I am a massive fan of get_iplayer, but I think protestations of the sort described in these threads will fall on deaf ears. Just be thankful we have people with the technical ability to keep up with whatever barriers are put our way! Alan On 04/11/2014 09:18, wacla...@btconnect.com wrote: On 04/11/14 01:51, Peter S Kirk wrote: After all, GiP is no different from the old method of recording TV to VCR or Radio to cassette tape. Isn't that the point, by using GIP we are only using another type of recording device to record content from the BBC. I could buy a DigitalTV today, connect a external HD to it and record digital TV and store it for as long I wish. The only difference by using GIP is that I am recording programs that have been aired in the past 30 days, not live broadcasts. Would it be worth trying to start some dialogue with the BBC (not sure if this has already been tried ?) to see if there is a way they (GIP developers) could work together and have GIP as a recognised 3rd party product or just accepted for Nitro. As it has proved in the last few days, the BBC changes things people will find a way to get over these changes, by closing doors, it only makes people more determined. If the BBC wanted to they could shut down GIP today by appling DRM to all content streaming (like Netflix and Prime) so I cannot see by starting any dialogue, how that would change anything as they already know about GIP, we are not telling them something they don't know about. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer The mistake you and they are making is that it can somehow be protected and so is worth a fortune. It cant and so it isn't. As you say they could shut down GIP today but that would not stop anything they broadcast or make available appearing on 'pirate' sites immediately. If I can watch it on TV or in iPlayer I can make a perfect copy of it irrelevant of the DRM. The DRM merely inconveniences everyone - it does not achieve any form of IP security. They are wasting their time - and the licence payers but barely anyone elses. This is the message that should be going out. OH that an a big thanks again DP! Tom ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 4 November 2014 09:54, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: ...The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. No, it is not /their/ content it is /ours/. The British people own the BBC so the content belongs to us. Though where the copyright is owned by others (artists etc) or they have royalty rights, then those issues also need to be addressed. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
complaints to auntie
Readers, Please write complaints to: jon.billi...@bbc.co.uk (Head of BBC Platform API) ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 04/11/2014 10:09, Tom wrote: The mistake you and they are making is that it can somehow be protected and so is worth a fortune. It cant and so it isn't. As you say they could shut down GIP today but that would not stop anything they broadcast or make available appearing on 'pirate' sites immediately. If I can watch it on TV or in iPlayer I can make a perfect copy of it irrelevant of the DRM. The DRM merely inconveniences everyone - it does not achieve any form of IP security. They are wasting their time - and the licence payers but barely anyone elses. This is the message that should be going out. OH that an a big thanks again DP! Tom I never said it could be protected, the very opposite! But surely you can't blame them for trying to protect their assets. How about this analogy... Any home security expert will tell you there is no such thing as 100% security but what you do to protect your property is to make it as difficult as you can (afford) rather than abandoning it and throwing open your doors and windows. DRM is part of that cat and mouse game, but, as you say, there is always someone who finds a way around it! Alan ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: complaints to auntie
On 2014-11-04 10:50, message wrote: Readers, Please write complaints to: jon.billi...@bbc.co.uk (Head of BBC Platform API) Jon.Billings at bbc.co.uk ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: Digital gives us the unprecedented ability to make a perfect copy, not a lossy copy as with tape ... But it's a perfect copy of an imperfect (compressed, loss of detail etc) source I'd think they'd be more concerned about digital tv recorders where what's recorded is whatever the tv set received. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
But they will certainly disagree that their content belongs to you and that you have unfettered rights over it. That's what the LOL was for! A On 04/11/2014 11:11, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 11:01, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: LOL, try arguing that in a court of law! ;-) I don't see what is LOL about it, and no court is going to disagree with the statement that the BBC belongs to the State. Colin On 04/11/2014 10:25, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 09:54, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: ...The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. No, it is not /their/ content it is /ours/. The British people own the BBC so the content belongs to us. Though where the copyright is owned by others (artists etc) or they have royalty rights, then those issues also need to be addressed. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8507 - Release Date: 11/04/14 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8507 - Release Date: 11/04/14 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 4 November 2014 11:18, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: But they will certainly disagree that their content belongs to you and that you have unfettered rights over it. That's what the LOL was for! I did not say it belongs to me, I said it belongs to the British people. Also I did not say we had unfettered rights, I pointed out that copyright and royalty issues prevent that. Colin A On 04/11/2014 11:11, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 11:01, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: LOL, try arguing that in a court of law! ;-) I don't see what is LOL about it, and no court is going to disagree with the statement that the BBC belongs to the State. Colin On 04/11/2014 10:25, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 09:54, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: ...The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. No, it is not /their/ content it is /ours/. The British people own the BBC so the content belongs to us. Though where the copyright is owned by others (artists etc) or they have royalty rights, then those issues also need to be addressed. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8507 - Release Date: 11/04/14 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8507 - Release Date: 11/04/14 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
No programmes are available for this pid
I'm puzzled by this message: No programmes are available for this pid with version(s): default which I get when trying to download two programmes (PIDs p0299nz3 and p0299ml1). Yet the programmes (Autumnwatch Extra) play on the BBC iPlayer site without problem. The other 6 programmes in the Extra sub series all download fine and all 8 have an expiry about 20+ days hence. Alan ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: No programmes are available for this pid
Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: I'm puzzled by this message: No programmes are available for this pid with version(s): default which I get when trying to download two programmes (PIDs p0299nz3 and p0299ml1). Usually it means they're only available in eg 'signed' form. For that you need to include --versions signed in your fetch command. If you also include --verbose you'll get much more output from get_iplayer, but it will tell you what 'versions' it thinks are actually available, and if 'default' is not on the list it might make more sense. (Assuming that you don't already see those lines without --verbose). -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 11/04/2014 09:54 AM, Alan Milewczyk wrote: We've seen how the film studios have been clamping down on piracy. The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. The intellectual property considerations are real. However, for many of us, the superset of what is actually already legally available would be just fine - it's just that the implementation blows enough that it's functionally useless. For example - I can download and watch programs on my android tablet for up to 30 days - it's just that it doesn't properly resume if it gets interrupted - so I typically have to try to download several times - and I can't do this with my linux PC. Personally, if there was a cross-platform gip-like thing, which did not allow saving past 30 (or 7) days, and had a more sane (and accessible, for those blind and other users) interface - I suspect many would welcome this. Similarly - a small extra fee on the licence which allowed much less restriction as to what you can view. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
Yawn, is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour? On 04/11/2014 11:33, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 11:18, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: But they will certainly disagree that their content belongs to you and that you have unfettered rights over it. That's what the LOL was for! I did not say it belongs to me, I said it belongs to the British people. Also I did not say we had unfettered rights, I pointed out that copyright and royalty issues prevent that. Colin A On 04/11/2014 11:11, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 11:01, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: LOL, try arguing that in a court of law! ;-) I don't see what is LOL about it, and no court is going to disagree with the statement that the BBC belongs to the State. Colin On 04/11/2014 10:25, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 09:54, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: ...The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. No, it is not /their/ content it is /ours/. The British people own the BBC so the content belongs to us. Though where the copyright is owned by others (artists etc) or they have royalty rights, then those issues also need to be addressed. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 04/11/14 12:54, Ian Stirling wrote: ... - so I typically have to try to download several times - and I can't do this with my linux PC. I was able to do this on my Ubuntu Linux system using the older get_iplayer. I was once prompted to use the --force option whan wanting to download a programme that I had downloaded previously and then deleted. -- Sent from Ubuntu Unity ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 4 November 2014 13:49, Ian Tomkinson ian.tomkin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Colin Law clan...@gmail.com wrote: I did not say it belongs to me, I said it belongs to the British people. Also I did not say we had unfettered rights, I pointed out that copyright and royalty issues prevent that. I'm afraid that's not true for the majority of BBC content. It is produced by independent companies and licensed to the BBC for a period of time. They can't just allow any old access they wish without potentially breaking agreements undertakings with content producers. Is that not what I said? Copyright and royalty issues prevent unfettered rights. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
ePetition Covering Public Data From The Likes Of The BBC
Now available for signatories. Please sign if you are a UK resident and feel remotely able to support it: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/71556 www.macfh.co.uk/CEMH.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: ePetition Covering Public Data From The Likes Of The BBC
- Original Message - From: C E Macfarlane c.e.macfarl...@macfh.co.uk To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2014 2:40 PM Subject: ePetition Covering Public Data From The Likes Of The BBC Now available for signatories. Please sign if you are a UK resident and feel remotely able to support it: BAD IDEA What part of *Keep a low profile* don't you understand? Would you like the keys to the Treasury while you are at it? You haven't a hope in hell ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: No programmes are available for this pid
On 04/11/2014 11:47, Jeremy Nicoll - ml get_iplayer wrote: Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: I'm puzzled by this message: No programmes are available for this pid with version(s): default which I get when trying to download two programmes (PIDs p0299nz3 and p0299ml1). Usually it means they're only available in eg 'signed' form. For that you need to include --versions signed in your fetch command. If you also include --verbose you'll get much more output from get_iplayer, but it will tell you what 'versions' it thinks are actually available, and if 'default' is not on the list it might make more sense. (Assuming that you don't already see those lines without --verbose). Hmm this gets more and more strange. I'm trying to download the programme on a Linux laptop as RTMP seems to barf over the 4 GB limit on Windows but not on Linux. The Linux PC says it ain't there (as previously advised) but the Windows PC is downloading it normally (we've not got to the 4GB limit yet). ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: No programmes are available for this pid
Hmm this gets more and more strange. I'm trying to download the programme on a Linux laptop as RTMP seems to barf over the 4 GB limit on Windows but not on Linux. The Linux PC says it ain't there (as previously advised) but the Windows PC is downloading it normally (we've not got to the 4GB limit yet). _What_ 4GB limit? The 4GB file size limit if you are running a 32bit version of Windows. Andy ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 09:54:47 + Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: I'm amazed at these discussions. I wonder how many BBC people are actually subscribed to the list. And I'm not angling for a list admin to look, it is private. But there's gotta be some lovies watching, at least :) The issue for the BBC is one of the protection of intellectual property. Yes, the problem has been around since recording devices became available but since the advent of digital technology it has spiralled out of all belief as a problem to the copyright holder. Technology has moved on and what protections made sense are now much more questionable. In the past ownership was granted and then generally money was made off distribution. Tech has nailed much of the value provided by those that used to find artists, record them, and get that into our hands on bits of plastic. The protections have gotten so huge too over the decades of IP industries that I think UK copyright is life of the author plus 70 years! Contemporary culture stands to largely be locked up for generations. There is problem for non-copyright holders too. I dunno how to reward artists and producers for their labours, but the system we have now and where it looks to be going is IMHO increasingly unrealistic. Digital gives us the unprecedented ability to make a perfect copy, not a lossy copy as with tape (whether audio or video). It enables us to make copies faster than ever before, even without ever holding that medium in one's hands. Mills made hand spinning obsolete, it enabled perfect copies to made faster than ever before, etc.. I am no bloody libertarian though, I hate to see people's livelihoods vanish. So when I say I dunno how to reward people I mean it! I hate to play a blunt economic card when livings are at stake. Don't get me wrong, I am a massive fan of get_iplayer, but I think protestations of the sort described in these threads will fall on deaf ears. Just be thankful we have people with the technical ability to keep up with whatever barriers are put our way! Which is the irony of the enforcement of OTT IP. The restrictions won't ever truly work - even with some closed network, server and client system the end-user could still video the screen. And how much is a phone these days that can video something? :) But if you see that barriers aren't worth it because things have changed, then perhaps you can see why I think the system driving desire for those barriers might need changing? Nick ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: No programmes are available for this pid
On 04/11/2014 15:54, TQ wrote: On 04/11/2014 11:47, Jeremy Nicoll - ml get_iplayer wrote: Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: I'm puzzled by this message: No programmes are available for this pid with version(s): default which I get when trying to download two programmes (PIDs p0299nz3 and p0299ml1). Usually it means they're only available in eg 'signed' form. For that you need to include --versions signed in your fetch command. If you also include --verbose you'll get much more output from get_iplayer, but it will tell you what 'versions' it thinks are actually available, and if 'default' is not on the list it might make more sense. (Assuming that you don't already see those lines without --verbose). Hmm this gets more and more strange. I'm trying to download the programme on a Linux laptop as RTMP seems to barf over the 4 GB limit on Windows but not on Linux. The Linux PC says it ain't there (as previously advised) but the Windows PC is downloading it normally (we've not got to the 4GB limit yet). _What_ 4GB limit? Some months ago somebody (apologies, but I can't remember who) posted a link to a version of rmtpdump which had been patched to ove4come the 4GB limit. https://bitbucket.org/dinkypumpkin/rtmpdump/branch/4GB It was me who had that problem a few months ago and I think it was DP who posted the link. I'm pretty sure it was nothing to do with being 32 bit as I was running 64 bit anyway but I can't remember the technical reason behind the problem. We did have a discussion (not on here but on the Squarepenguin forum and I was advised that the chances of success with Windows were problematical but Linux was more likely to work better. It was during the Wimbledon 2014 tournament when I wanted to download the Red button material which was pretty humungous in size. I tried a few different Linux distros - Ubuntu wouldn't play ball at all but I seemed to get results most of the time with Linux Mint so I stuck with that. Actually as I type this, I've just realised that I am still on v2.83 on the two Linux Mint PCs. One of them is an ancient laptop with a 10/100MB ethernet port which has been slowly painfully downloading one of the Autumnwatch Extra programmes (PID p0299ml1) since yesterday - we're currently up to around 7GB. But the common feature with both PIDs where I am having a problem with the Linux PCs is that today both programmes are now beyond the 7 day limit and I am still using v2.83, so I think it's time to update the faster of the two. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
I don't disagree with anything you say, Nick. I'm just taking the devil's advocate position from the viewpoint of film studios, BBC etc etc, i.e. the media producers. But yes, we currently have an untenable King Canute situation - the waves of technology have been destroying previous generations for many years, technology and its ramifications can't be halted or uninvented! It's interesting how in the old days, many successful recording artists did well with royalties but nowadays as so little music is bought as CD, their earnings are maintained by going on tour and doing their live appearances. In the 60s and 70s we didn't have large stadiums in the UK - we only had theatres/cinemas with seating of two or three thousand at the most. Nowadays the larger cities have venues of ten times that size now. However, the old studio business model is increasingly harder to justify so heaven knows how new talent can be nurtured and remunerated. Alan On 04/11/2014 15:58, Nick wrote: On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 09:54:47 + Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: I'm amazed at these discussions. I wonder how many BBC people are actually subscribed to the list. And I'm not angling for a list admin to look, it is private. But there's gotta be some lovies watching, at least :) The issue for the BBC is one of the protection of intellectual property. Yes, the problem has been around since recording devices became available but since the advent of digital technology it has spiralled out of all belief as a problem to the copyright holder. Technology has moved on and what protections made sense are now much more questionable. In the past ownership was granted and then generally money was made off distribution. Tech has nailed much of the value provided by those that used to find artists, record them, and get that into our hands on bits of plastic. The protections have gotten so huge too over the decades of IP industries that I think UK copyright is life of the author plus 70 years! Contemporary culture stands to largely be locked up for generations. There is problem for non-copyright holders too. I dunno how to reward artists and producers for their labours, but the system we have now and where it looks to be going is IMHO increasingly unrealistic. Digital gives us the unprecedented ability to make a perfect copy, not a lossy copy as with tape (whether audio or video). It enables us to make copies faster than ever before, even without ever holding that medium in one's hands. Mills made hand spinning obsolete, it enabled perfect copies to made faster than ever before, etc.. I am no bloody libertarian though, I hate to see people's livelihoods vanish. So when I say I dunno how to reward people I mean it! I hate to play a blunt economic card when livings are at stake. Don't get me wrong, I am a massive fan of get_iplayer, but I think protestations of the sort described in these threads will fall on deaf ears. Just be thankful we have people with the technical ability to keep up with whatever barriers are put our way! Which is the irony of the enforcement of OTT IP. The restrictions won't ever truly work - even with some closed network, server and client system the end-user could still video the screen. And how much is a phone these days that can video something? :) But if you see that barriers aren't worth it because things have changed, then perhaps you can see why I think the system driving desire for those barriers might need changing? Nick ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8509 - Release Date: 11/04/14 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
Nick get_ipla...@i.lucanops.net wrote: Which is the irony of the enforcement of OTT IP. The restrictions won't ever truly work - even with some closed network, server and client system the end-user could still video the screen. And how much is a phone these days that can video something? :) In the 1990s the pro-audio industry had something called SCMS (usually pronounced scums) - the Serial Copy Management System which made it impossible to make digital copies of digital sound files; there were bits set in the audio stream which told recorders not to record the audio. It caused a lot of problems in the pro-audio industry itself, and in due course SCMS strippers became available - little boxes that you'd pass a digital audio stream through, which would remove the relevant bits but leave the audio untouched. Studios bought the boxes so they could continue to work with whatever a client brought in. Some pro gear had DIP switches on the back so they could be configured to set/ignore the SCMS bits... In other words it was circumventable. More detail at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Copy_Management_System -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: get_iplayer repair update #1
Thank you for your hard work on get_iplayer. Alan. On 1 November 2014 00:45, dinkypumpkin dinkypump...@gmail.com wrote: get_iplayer has been more or less repaired, but there are still some wounds. I'm going to release what I have on Sunday. I'm on the road next week, so I've run out of time to do more for the time being. Consider it a stopgap until progress can be made on other fronts. This is where things are: 1. I've disabled code related to the discontinued feeds, so you shouldn't get any more bogus values in your metadata tags. You should also see thumbnails again in files 7 days old downloaded via PID. 2. The new release will support entry of multiple PIDs. 3. I've more or less restored the 7 day cache for TV and radio. There are still some holes in it: a. It is not possible to search for audiodescribed versions of programmes. I haven't been able to source that information. If anyone has any clues on the subject, chime in - but not if your suggestion is to scrape the iPlayer site. That isn't on the table right just yet. You can still download audiodescribed versions, but you'll have to look for them on the iPlayer site. Signed versions should still be flagged in the get_iplayer cache, but some may be missing. Again, check the iPlayer site if in doubt. I've changed get_iplayer to always scrape the related episode page to look for audiodescribed/signed versions when requested, so hopefully more downloads will be successful. I found a number of cases where the playlist data for recent programmes didn't contain identifiers for audiodescribed versions even though they existed on the iPlayer site. b. It is not possible to search radio programmes by category. TV programmes still have category information. There is a source for radio category information, but it uniformly foundered on Radio 4 and Radio 4 Extra, which is where the categories are most meaningful. I know that is going to break some PVR searches, but the alternative is a support headache I can't absorb. c. I can't vouch that every programme from the previous 7 days will show up in the cache. As always, you can use the PID for any programme not in the cache. By the same token, I can't vouch that every programme in the cache will be downloadable. The new feeds contain noticeably more programmes, some due to the inclusion of web-only stuff. With the heavier load, cache refreshes are noticeably slower than with the old feeds, ca. 90 seconds for me for tv+radio. 2. The more-or-less restored cache depends on some old data feeds lingering at the BBC. Recent events have taught us that they could disappear without warning, so I've implemented a fallback mechanism. There will be a new option that will switch the cache to refresh from the channel schedule pages instead of the old data feeds. However, this fallback is also limited: a. It is not possible to search for audiodescribed or signed versions of programmes. That information isn't in the schedule pages. b. It is not possible to search TV or radio programmes by category. Again, that information isn't in the schedule pages. c. Cache refresh is slow, ca. 4+ minutes for a full TV and radio refresh for me. The time could be cut by about 1/3 by removing regional TV channel variations, but it cuts out 50+ programmes, so I've left them in for the present. d. It appears that fewer programmes from the previous 7 days get cached compared to the feeds. Part of that is because the schedule pages don't show most web-only programmes. Part of it may also be because I'm checking availability info in the schedule pages more strictly than whatever produces the data feeds. Again, you can use the PID for anything not in the cache. e. The only plus to using the schedule pages to populate the cache is that it becomes possible to expand your cache out to 30 days. It seems to work OK, if you have 10-15 minutes to refresh your cache. There will be an option for this. f. I've given you enough rope to hang yourself, but don't put this fallback option into regular use unless it becomes necessary - seriously. It's only there to avoid weeks like this one. I won't be interested in hearing how slow it is or how it doesn't locate some particular programme. And for pete's sake *don't* use it with the Web PVR. If you insist on playing around with it, you'll probably want to bump up --expiry to some gigantic number and refresh your cache manually as needed. 3. Looking further ahead Some things that have been floated here in the past few days: a. Programme data services: If somebody implements something along these lines, I'm sure get_iplayer could be integrated with it. It's clear that get_iplayer would never be able to access Nitro if and when it's ever opened up. But, if somebody can repackage Nitro data for wider use, that would be pretty useful. b. iPlayer site scraping: This could also be the foundation of a
RE: ePetition Covering Public Data From The Likes Of The BBC
Needless to say, I disagree. Cynicism is a very easy option, as it totally absolves the cynic from any sort of public spirited exertion, far less from making any sort of stand, and some sort of stand is usually necessary to make any gains in this life. I see absolutely no need to keep a low profile. For one thing, the ePetition, which it is clear that you haven't bothered to read, is far wider in scopt than just the BBC. For another, the BBC and the other public institutions covered are funded by all of us through various forms of taxation, so we have every right to make our views known about how they/it should be run. For another, I do not believe we are breaking any law in using get-iplayer or equivalent for our own private use. For another, I could reasonably claim to being forced into it, because the iPlayer functionality on my media player was broken by the BBC last round of changes. And other organisations have, at least to an extent, taken on board this sort of request. For example a year or two back I finally managed, after complaining to them bitterly all the way through DSO, to get Ofcom to publish transmitter lists in *.CSV, rather than only as *.PDFs from which it was cumbersome and error-prone to extract the data. As for having any hope, it has 21 sigs after being out for just a few hours with the pitiful publicity I have given it so far - actually that's the real problem here, I just don't hang about in enough places to get it widely known about, so if readers here want to help out, please feel free. www.macfh.co.uk/CEMH.html -Original Message- BAD IDEA What part of *Keep a low profile* don't you understand? Would you like the keys to the Treasury while you are at it? You haven't a hope in hell ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: ePetition Covering Public Data From The Likes Of The BBC
I have just signed it and I would urge all on this mailing list to do so too. On 04/11/14 14:40, C E Macfarlane wrote: Now available for signatories. Please sign if you are a UK resident and feel remotely able to support it: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/71556 www.macfh.co.uk/CEMH.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
PVR unwanted features
Repeating my thanks to DP et al for their very swift resolution to the bombshell that hit last week, I have found a couple of unwanted features with the PVR. First, DP's fix for the past weekend's two Formula 1 programmes doesn't seem to have worked for me (Windows XP and 7). The Radio 5 live programmes show in the cache, but not the TV. Also the PVR matching on type seems to have been lost, e.g. I have a PVR entry that looks for the string sounds of the 70s in a programme title, with a type setting of tv. It is now matching Johnny Walker's sounds of the 70s that has a type of radio. If this can be addressed as and when time allows, my gratitude (and admiration) will know no bounds. Many thanks Don Grunbaum ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: PVR unwanted features
Hello; this has to be unique to you. I have around 300 searches in PVR and they are all working as normal. I do find the below in tv.cache .get_iplayer/tv.cache:3799|tv|Sounds of the 70s 2|b01kcq0k|2014-11-09T20:30:00Z|New Wave - Hit Me Wit there are also entries in the radio.cache. But type does appear to be working. On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Don Grunbaum d...@grunbaum.co.uk wrote: Repeating my thanks to DP et al for their very swift resolution to the bombshell that hit last week, I have found a couple of unwanted features with the PVR. First, DP's fix for the past weekend's two Formula 1 programmes doesn't seem to have worked for me (Windows XP and 7). The Radio 5 live programmes show in the cache, but not the TV. Also the PVR matching on type seems to have been lost, e.g. I have a PVR entry that looks for the string sounds of the 70s in a programme title, with a type setting of tv. It is now matching Johnny Walker's sounds of the 70s that has a type of radio. If this can be addressed as and when time allows, my gratitude (and admiration) will know no bounds. Many thanks Don Grunbaum ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer -- terry l. ridder ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: PVR unwanted features
- Original Message - From: artisticforge . artisticfo...@gmail.com To: get_iplayer get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2014 9:16 PM Subject: Re: PVR unwanted features Hello; this has to be unique to you. I have around 300 searches in PVR and they are all working as normal. I do find the below in tv.cache .get_iplayer/tv.cache:3799|tv|Sounds of the 70s 2|b01kcq0k|2014-11-09T20:30:00Z|New Wave - Hit Me Wit there are also entries in the radio.cache. But type does appear to be working. Thanks for the response; perhaps I didn't explain my problem clearly. Does your tv.cache contain pid b04ndy7v (US GP Highlights)? Mine doesn't, but up until this weekend all F1 programmes have recorded successfully. PVR entry reads: fields name modes best subtitles 0 thumb 0 type tv versionlist default search0 Formula 1 Also, up until this weekend, radio programme Johnny Walker's Sounds of the 70s has never been recorded (but matching TV programmes have been). PVR entry is: fields name modes best subtitles 0 thumb 0 type tv versionlist default search0 Sounds of the 70s Any ideas? Don ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: PVR unwanted features
On 04/11/2014 21:01, Don Grunbaum wrote: Repeating my thanks to DP et al for their very swift resolution to the First, DP's fix for the past weekend's two Formula 1 programmes doesn't seem to have worked for me (Windows XP and 7). The Radio 5 live programmes show in the cache, but not the TV. The data sources are different, so things may be named slightly differently now. And of course some things may simply no longer be available. But not in this case. You need to learn how to use all the search capabilities in get_iplayer. Use --fields=name,episode or --long to look for things beyond just the programme name. To wit: get_iplayer --type tv --long grand prix Matches: 564: Formula 1 - 2014: The US Grand Prix Highlights, BBC Sport, Formula One,Motorsport,Sport, default, 0 days 3 hours ago - Suzi Perry with highlights of the US Grand Prix at the Circuit of the Americas in Texas. 565: Formula 1 - 2014: The US Grand Prix - Qualifying Highlights, BBC Sport, Formula One,Motorsport,Sport, default, 0 days 3 hours ago - Suzi Perry introduces highlights of qualifying for the US Grand Prix. get_iplayer --type radio --long grand prix --channel 5 live Matches: 10034: 5 live Formula 1 - 2014: US Grand Prix Preview, BBC Radio 5 live, , 0 days 3 hours ago - A look ahead to the US Grand Prix in Texas with the 5 live F1 team. 10035: 5 live Formula 1 - 2014: US GP 1st Practice, BBC 5 live sports extra, , 0 days 3 hours ago - Live commentary on the first practice session for the USA Grand Prix. 10036: 5 live Formula 1 - 2014: US Grand Prix, BBC Radio 5 live, , 0 days 3 hours ago - Jennie Gow presents live commentary of the US Grand Prix from Austin, Texas. 10037: 5 live Formula 1 - 2014: US Grand Prix Review, BBC Radio 5 live, , 0 days 3 hours ago - A look back at the US Grand Prix with the 5 live F1 team. 10038: 5 live Formula 1 - 2014: US GP 3rd Practice, BBC 5 live sports extra, , 0 days 3 hours ago - Live commentary on the third practice session for the USA Grand Prix. 10039: 5 live Formula 1 - 2014: US GP Qualifying, BBC 5 live sports extra, , 0 days 3 hours ago - Live commentary on the qualifying session for the US Grand Prix. Also the PVR matching on type seems to have been lost, e.g. I have a PVR entry that looks for the string sounds of the 70s in a programme title, with a type setting of tv. It is now matching Johnny Walker's sounds of the 70s that has a type of radio. Not here. get_iplayer --pvr-list pvrsearch = sounds70 search0 = sounds of the 70s type = tv get_iplayer --pvr Running PVR Searches: sounds70 No radio results in sight. Check your options file, presets, etc. --type=radio is creeping in somewhere ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: ePetition Covering Public Data From The Likes Of The BBC
-Original Message- From: Shiner [mailto:dodgy-cu...@ntlworld.com] Sent: 04 November 2014 21:11 To: c.e.macfarl...@macfh.co.uk Subject: Re: ePetition Covering Public Data From The Likes Of The BBC Top posting corrected... Why am I somehow not surprised to find that he's one them job's worth's that would kill meaningful communication by making everyone scroll through the entire history of mankind's correspondence before they're allowed to read a single new line added to it, or to add anything to it themselves? If you're going to be a job's worth, you could at least do it properly, and trim those parts of the preceding posts that are not directly relevant to your reply ... Cynicism is a very easy option, as it totally absolves the cynic from any sort of public spirited exertion, far less from making any sort of stand, and some sort of stand is usually necessary to make any gains in this life. Whilst I freely admit to being somewhat cynical, I remain concerned that you are shoving GiP into the public's _and the BBC's_ awareness in a way that will be counter productive in the long run. Clearly, you still haven't read the petition ... ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
