Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
They're not going to keep the mail infra for one or two email lists! Anyway, Discourse isn't bad, and as a long time email/newsgroup user I'm saying this, so you other luddites won't mind it once used. It's the future. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
Hi! On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:20 AM Marco Ciampa via gimp-user-list < gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 02:43:53PM +0900, Joel Rees via gimp-user-list > wrote: > > I'm not an active user of the lists, haven't posted in ages. so I was > just > > considering ignoring this thread and when the list disappears > disappearing > > from the community myself. > > > > But I decided to investigate discourse to see if I would be installing a > > client or whatever, and I find the project pages really don't tell me > what > > I want to know before I install something new. (That other thing, > Discord, > > for instance, does not seem to be surviving the move to the new phone. > I'm > > getting pickier.) > > > > So I went to Wikipedia for a better overview and I noticed something > > disconcerting on the Wikipedia page – > > > > Paraphrased: This reads like advertising material. And, ... nine years > > later it still reads like advertising material. > > > > Not a confidence builder. Which means, yeah, lurkers like me will likely > > disappear from the community. > > > > FWIW. > > > > Joel Rees > > Exactly my same feeling. I wonder: since the very low traffic of these > lists, was it so hard to keep them alive? Why not ask for a hand before > deciding to migrate? > I can't talk for the GNOME Infra team, but I know that the problem is often the small things adding up. So even if it's probably not too hard, there is this + that + this. 路 As for providing a hand, you can always propose. Maybe it's not too late since they are still here. I believe the Infrastructure tracker would be a good place to start (https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/Infrastructure/) or maybe #sysadmin channel on GIMPNet (looking for AndreaVeri/av). We would just follow and if the mailing lists stayed around, we'll happily continue using them. Jehan GIMP team > -- > > Amike, > Marco Ciampa > ___ > gimp-user-list mailing list > List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list > -- ZeMarmot open animation film http://film.zemarmot.net Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 02:43:53PM +0900, Joel Rees via gimp-user-list wrote: > I'm not an active user of the lists, haven't posted in ages. so I was just > considering ignoring this thread and when the list disappears disappearing > from the community myself. > > But I decided to investigate discourse to see if I would be installing a > client or whatever, and I find the project pages really don't tell me what > I want to know before I install something new. (That other thing, Discord, > for instance, does not seem to be surviving the move to the new phone. I'm > getting pickier.) > > So I went to Wikipedia for a better overview and I noticed something > disconcerting on the Wikipedia page – > > Paraphrased: This reads like advertising material. And, ... nine years > later it still reads like advertising material. > > Not a confidence builder. Which means, yeah, lurkers like me will likely > disappear from the community. > > FWIW. > > Joel Rees Exactly my same feeling. I wonder: since the very low traffic of these lists, was it so hard to keep them alive? Why not ask for a hand before deciding to migrate? -- Amike, Marco Ciampa ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
I'm not an active user of the lists, haven't posted in ages. so I was just considering ignoring this thread and when the list disappears disappearing from the community myself. But I decided to investigate discourse to see if I would be installing a client or whatever, and I find the project pages really don't tell me what I want to know before I install something new. (That other thing, Discord, for instance, does not seem to be surviving the move to the new phone. I'm getting pickier.) So I went to Wikipedia for a better overview and I noticed something disconcerting on the Wikipedia page – Paraphrased: This reads like advertising material. And, ... nine years later it still reads like advertising material. Not a confidence builder. Which means, yeah, lurkers like me will likely disappear from the community. FWIW. Joel Rees ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
Hi! On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 4:43 AM Rick Strong wrote: > Gee, Jehan I'm really sorry I was so involved in getting photographs ready > for print tomorrow morning that I overlooked the possibility that YOU might > also be stressed out. I’m going blind in one eye, had a heart attack in > August and I’ve been going for over 12 hours now, but that’s no excuse. You > have my sympathy. [image: Crying face] > Hey no problem don't worry. Neither your email nor the one from the other person were rude or anything. I was just annoyed by the fact they were sent privately and it's true I'm quite tired these days. Anyway thanks for understanding and sorry to read about your health issues. I hope these will get better soon! Jehan > Rick > > > -Original Message- > From: Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2022 8:29 PM > To: gimp-web-list ; GIMP User List ; gimp-gui-l...@gnome.org ; GIMP Docs > ; gimp-developer ; gegl-developer-list > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to > Discourse > > Hi everyone! > > I received 2 off-list emails. Please do not send me off-list emails. I am > exhausted and cannot do private support in addition to public support, > code development, news writing, website making and everything else in GIMP. > > > This is even more true as I don't really see anything private/sensitive in > the 2 emails I received. Really no need to make them private, except for > making me work double (whereas as public emails, someone else could have > answered). I generally advise contributors to preserve themselves from > overworking by not answering to private messages. > > Anyway, regarding unhappiness about the new platform, I will mainly answer > that there is not much we can do. We are heavily relying on GNOME > Infrastructure (which we thank for this) and they have their own reasons > (one of them is that mailing lists are apparently one of the elements in > their stack which prevent them from dropping Python 2; we can relate!). Cf. > the link in my original email. > > Now we could always try to fight against the current and persuade GNOME > infrastructure team, but we made a small opinion tour among the current > core team and nobody really had particular love or use of our mailing > lists. Also we realize it's very low volume these days (barely a few > threads per month, counting all mailing lists together). Myself I barely > look at mailing lists every once in a while and make a random answer > sometimes. And there were several mailing lists I was not even subscribed > to (I did for the sake of this announcement). So that's probably why none > from the core team is really trying to fight this change. > > There is one more thing to take into consideration: more infrastructure > means more work. I said it above, I am exhausted by this all. I was only > managing one of the mailing lists so far (the gimp-gui one, the most > recent) and still had to regularly handle spams. I am personally thankful > that this work goes to GNOME admins now. Moreover I would not try to find > alternative mailing list providers either. Now, same as hundreds of > third-party forums discuss GIMP out there, people are welcome to create > third-party mailing lists to discuss GIMP if that's really what you are > into. I won't be such a person; and apparently it looks like nobody else > from the core team is so far. > > One last thing: I am aware that Discourse is not perfect. I also spent some > time today to try and understand how to efficiently transform it into a > mailing list equivalent. > > For questions about only receiving emails for the "gimp" tag, I think that > you should not try to use the "Enable mailing list mode" option. Instead > just go to the "gimp" tag page (https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/gimp), > click the bell icon on the top-right and set to "Watching" mode. This way, > you will be notified of absolutely all messages for this tag. Then in your > "Emails" preferences, set "Email me when I am quoted, replied to, my > @username is mentioned, or when there is new activity in my watched > categories, tags or topics" to "always". This should transform every > notification into emails, in other words you will receive an email for > every message added in the "gimp" tag. You can even directly reply to a > notification email from your mail client without going to Discourse. > At least, so far it worked for me (I tried today, and I only received > emails for the 2 messages which came in with the "gimp" tag, no other > emails). So it's probably the right setting. > > Anyway please understand that it's really not about comparing the Discourse > and mailing list technologies. GIMP is not a discussion platform, we only > provide these channels on the side because it's a cool community tool, but > we cannot spend all our time managing these. This is why we need to go with > the flow of what GNOME is proposing (as long as it's not completely wrong; > e.g.
Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
Gee, Jehan I'm really sorry I was so involved in getting photographs ready for print tomorrow morning that I overlooked the possibility that YOU might also be stressed out. I’m going blind in one eye, had a heart attack in August and I’ve been going for over 12 hours now, but that’s no excuse. You have my sympathy. Rick -Original Message- From: Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list Sent: Monday, October 17, 2022 8:29 PM To: gimp-web-list ; GIMP User List ; gimp-gui-l...@gnome.org ; GIMP Docs ; gimp-developer ; gegl-developer-list Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse Hi everyone! I received 2 off-list emails. Please do not send me off-list emails. I am exhausted and cannot do private support in addition to public support, code development, news writing, website making and everything else in GIMP. This is even more true as I don't really see anything private/sensitive in the 2 emails I received. Really no need to make them private, except for making me work double (whereas as public emails, someone else could have answered). I generally advise contributors to preserve themselves from overworking by not answering to private messages. Anyway, regarding unhappiness about the new platform, I will mainly answer that there is not much we can do. We are heavily relying on GNOME Infrastructure (which we thank for this) and they have their own reasons (one of them is that mailing lists are apparently one of the elements in their stack which prevent them from dropping Python 2; we can relate!). Cf. the link in my original email. Now we could always try to fight against the current and persuade GNOME infrastructure team, but we made a small opinion tour among the current core team and nobody really had particular love or use of our mailing lists. Also we realize it's very low volume these days (barely a few threads per month, counting all mailing lists together). Myself I barely look at mailing lists every once in a while and make a random answer sometimes. And there were several mailing lists I was not even subscribed to (I did for the sake of this announcement). So that's probably why none from the core team is really trying to fight this change. There is one more thing to take into consideration: more infrastructure means more work. I said it above, I am exhausted by this all. I was only managing one of the mailing lists so far (the gimp-gui one, the most recent) and still had to regularly handle spams. I am personally thankful that this work goes to GNOME admins now. Moreover I would not try to find alternative mailing list providers either. Now, same as hundreds of third-party forums discuss GIMP out there, people are welcome to create third-party mailing lists to discuss GIMP if that's really what you are into. I won't be such a person; and apparently it looks like nobody else from the core team is so far. One last thing: I am aware that Discourse is not perfect. I also spent some time today to try and understand how to efficiently transform it into a mailing list equivalent. For questions about only receiving emails for the "gimp" tag, I think that you should not try to use the "Enable mailing list mode" option. Instead just go to the "gimp" tag page (https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/gimp), click the bell icon on the top-right and set to "Watching" mode. This way, you will be notified of absolutely all messages for this tag. Then in your "Emails" preferences, set "Email me when I am quoted, replied to, my @username is mentioned, or when there is new activity in my watched categories, tags or topics" to "always". This should transform every notification into emails, in other words you will receive an email for every message added in the "gimp" tag. You can even directly reply to a notification email from your mail client without going to Discourse. At least, so far it worked for me (I tried today, and I only received emails for the 2 messages which came in with the "gimp" tag, no other emails). So it's probably the right setting. Anyway please understand that it's really not about comparing the Discourse and mailing list technologies. GIMP is not a discussion platform, we only provide these channels on the side because it's a cool community tool, but we cannot spend all our time managing these. This is why we need to go with the flow of what GNOME is proposing (as long as it's not completely wrong; e.g. if they had proposed to go for some walled garden proprietary network for the main discussion channels, I would have questioned the choice). I am not into gamification, infinite scrolls or such things either. Us accepting this platform is not about us wanting these. It's really about having a limited core team and nobody highly interested into maintaining complicated infrastructure for a different system than what GNOME does. That's about it. Also for the 2 people who sent private emails, forgive me for not answering directly and privately
Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
Hi everyone! I received 2 off-list emails. Please do not send me off-list emails. I am exhausted and cannot do private support in addition to public support, code development, news writing, website making and everything else in GIMP. This is even more true as I don't really see anything private/sensitive in the 2 emails I received. Really no need to make them private, except for making me work double (whereas as public emails, someone else could have answered). I generally advise contributors to preserve themselves from overworking by not answering to private messages. Anyway, regarding unhappiness about the new platform, I will mainly answer that there is not much we can do. We are heavily relying on GNOME Infrastructure (which we thank for this) and they have their own reasons (one of them is that mailing lists are apparently one of the elements in their stack which prevent them from dropping Python 2; we can relate!). Cf. the link in my original email. Now we could always try to fight against the current and persuade GNOME infrastructure team, but we made a small opinion tour among the current core team and nobody really had particular love or use of our mailing lists. Also we realize it's very low volume these days (barely a few threads per month, counting all mailing lists together). Myself I barely look at mailing lists every once in a while and make a random answer sometimes. And there were several mailing lists I was not even subscribed to (I did for the sake of this announcement). So that's probably why none from the core team is really trying to fight this change. There is one more thing to take into consideration: more infrastructure means more work. I said it above, I am exhausted by this all. I was only managing one of the mailing lists so far (the gimp-gui one, the most recent) and still had to regularly handle spams. I am personally thankful that this work goes to GNOME admins now. Moreover I would not try to find alternative mailing list providers either. Now, same as hundreds of third-party forums discuss GIMP out there, people are welcome to create third-party mailing lists to discuss GIMP if that's really what you are into. I won't be such a person; and apparently it looks like nobody else from the core team is so far. One last thing: I am aware that Discourse is not perfect. I also spent some time today to try and understand how to efficiently transform it into a mailing list equivalent. For questions about only receiving emails for the "gimp" tag, I think that you should not try to use the "Enable mailing list mode" option. Instead just go to the "gimp" tag page (https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/gimp), click the bell icon on the top-right and set to "Watching" mode. This way, you will be notified of absolutely all messages for this tag. Then in your "Emails" preferences, set "Email me when I am quoted, replied to, my @username is mentioned, or when there is new activity in my watched categories, tags or topics" to "always". This should transform every notification into emails, in other words you will receive an email for every message added in the "gimp" tag. You can even directly reply to a notification email from your mail client without going to Discourse. At least, so far it worked for me (I tried today, and I only received emails for the 2 messages which came in with the "gimp" tag, no other emails). So it's probably the right setting. Anyway please understand that it's really not about comparing the Discourse and mailing list technologies. GIMP is not a discussion platform, we only provide these channels on the side because it's a cool community tool, but we cannot spend all our time managing these. This is why we need to go with the flow of what GNOME is proposing (as long as it's not completely wrong; e.g. if they had proposed to go for some walled garden proprietary network for the main discussion channels, I would have questioned the choice). I am not into gamification, infinite scrolls or such things either. Us accepting this platform is not about us wanting these. It's really about having a limited core team and nobody highly interested into maintaining complicated infrastructure for a different system than what GNOME does. That's about it. Also for the 2 people who sent private emails, forgive me for not answering directly and privately to you. It's not against you, I just hope you will understand I am trying to preserve my mental sanity here. Someone was even apparently "shocked" that I used a gmail account. The reason is actually exactly the same (avoiding private emails): historically I wanted to avoid spreading my main email address too much (even though I now realize it was a vain wish, I was young back then! ) so I created this account as a trash email, maybe 15 years ago, and that's the address I historically used to subscribe to mailing lists. I am still receiving uncountable numbers of emails daily. And now you'll understand why I am doing a single
Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
Hi! On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 9:48 PM Rick Strong wrote: > So if I want to ask a question about using GIMP, or respond to a question, > how do I do it? > Well basically same as you always did, except that now it will be on one of the Discourse instances, such as the pixls.us one or the GNOME one. Instead of being subscribed to a mailing list, it's on Discourse (which is basically a modern-time forum, as I see it), on which you'd have a login/account. :-) Jehan Rick > > -Original Message- > From: Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2022 12:38 PM > To: gimp-web-list ; gimp-developer ; GIMP User List ; > gimp-gui-l...@gnome.org ; gegl-developer-list ; GIMP Docs > Subject: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to > Discourse > > Hello everyone! > > The GNOME Foundation has been moving all its discussions to a Discourse > forum, progressively: > > https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg00018.html > > We were informed today that they are on the last stage of this migration > and that all the mailing lists will be fully retired by the end of October. > This implies also all of GIMP and GEGL mailing lists. > > Instead, people wishing to discuss about GIMP are expected to use GNOME's > Discourse instance. In particular 2 tags were created for us: > > * "gimp" tag for GIMP-related discussions: > https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/gimp > * "gegl" tag for GEGL-related discussions: > https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/gegl > > We don't have as many tags as we used to have mailing lists, just these 2, > but since all our lists are quite low volume these days, I didn't think it > was worth asking, at least for now. GNOME admins confirmed that it would > not be a problem to add new tags in the future if we ever decided we needed > more (e.g. having a "gimp-dev" tag or whatnot). > > By the way, noteworthy information: GIMP has had already an official > presence on pixls.us Discourse: https://discuss.pixls.us/gimp/ > We discussed among the team if it was worth having presence on both > pixls.us > and GNOME discourse and we came to the conclusion that the audience is > different, therefore it is interesting to stay on both communities. For > discussion with existing GNOME contributors, translators and various GNOME > users for instance, they might be already on the GNOME Discourse. On the > other hand, pixls.us is a much more specialized forum/community on > Photography in particular, and is also probably more platform-independent > too. > > Last but not least, as I expect that some people might prefer interacting > by email, I tried to look up what are the possibilities. This thread > "Interacting with Discourse via email" is of interest: > https://discourse.gnome.org/t/interacting-with-discourse-via-email/46 > > It didn't have the ability to create new threads easily, especially tagged > with the "gimp" keyword. Discourse has a way to create a topic on a > specific category but we couldn't find for tags, for instance you can send > an email to community @ discourse.gnome.org (note that it doesn't work for > every category, e.g. it didn't work for infrastructure; I haven't tested > others). With Andrea Veri, GNOME Infrastructure admin, we came up with a > special email hook: any email with "[GIMP]" in the subject will be tagged > "gimp". > Nevertheless you need to have level 1 trust level for this to work. We > aren't sure exactly what it means other than having participated enough > (whatever "enough" is) to the Discourse first. 路 > > See: > > https://discourse.gnome.org/t/gimp-how-to-send-emails-to-discourse-tagged-for-gimp-forum/11535 > > So I guess, let's continue discussing there everyone! 珞 > > Jehan > GIMP maintainer > > -- > ZeMarmot open animation film > http://film.zemarmot.net > Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ > Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot > Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot > ___ > gimp-user-list mailing list > List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list > > -- ZeMarmot open animation film http://film.zemarmot.net Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
So if I want to ask a question about using GIMP, or respond to a question, how do I do it? Rick -Original Message- From: Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list Sent: Monday, October 17, 2022 12:38 PM To: gimp-web-list ; gimp-developer ; GIMP User List ; gimp-gui-l...@gnome.org ; gegl-developer-list ; GIMP Docs Subject: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse Hello everyone! The GNOME Foundation has been moving all its discussions to a Discourse forum, progressively: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg00018.html We were informed today that they are on the last stage of this migration and that all the mailing lists will be fully retired by the end of October. This implies also all of GIMP and GEGL mailing lists. Instead, people wishing to discuss about GIMP are expected to use GNOME's Discourse instance. In particular 2 tags were created for us: * "gimp" tag for GIMP-related discussions: https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/gimp * "gegl" tag for GEGL-related discussions: https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/gegl We don't have as many tags as we used to have mailing lists, just these 2, but since all our lists are quite low volume these days, I didn't think it was worth asking, at least for now. GNOME admins confirmed that it would not be a problem to add new tags in the future if we ever decided we needed more (e.g. having a "gimp-dev" tag or whatnot). By the way, noteworthy information: GIMP has had already an official presence on pixls.us Discourse: https://discuss.pixls.us/gimp/ We discussed among the team if it was worth having presence on both pixls.us and GNOME discourse and we came to the conclusion that the audience is different, therefore it is interesting to stay on both communities. For discussion with existing GNOME contributors, translators and various GNOME users for instance, they might be already on the GNOME Discourse. On the other hand, pixls.us is a much more specialized forum/community on Photography in particular, and is also probably more platform-independent too. Last but not least, as I expect that some people might prefer interacting by email, I tried to look up what are the possibilities. This thread "Interacting with Discourse via email" is of interest: https://discourse.gnome.org/t/interacting-with-discourse-via-email/46 It didn't have the ability to create new threads easily, especially tagged with the "gimp" keyword. Discourse has a way to create a topic on a specific category but we couldn't find for tags, for instance you can send an email to community @ discourse.gnome.org (note that it doesn't work for every category, e.g. it didn't work for infrastructure; I haven't tested others). With Andrea Veri, GNOME Infrastructure admin, we came up with a special email hook: any email with "[GIMP]" in the subject will be tagged "gimp". Nevertheless you need to have level 1 trust level for this to work. We aren't sure exactly what it means other than having participated enough (whatever "enough" is) to the Discourse first. 路 See: https://discourse.gnome.org/t/gimp-how-to-send-emails-to-discourse-tagged-for-gimp-forum/11535 So I guess, let's continue discussing there everyone! 珞 Jehan GIMP maintainer -- ZeMarmot open animation film http://film.zemarmot.net Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
