Re: Hardware lockup - need suggestions for diagnosing
Dan, Ben, Ric, and others that replied directly, Thanks for your replies and suggestions. Here's is what I've done and know so far: Hard drive - I removed the hard drive and disabled it in the BIOS. Still have the problem. (And yes Ben, I've already backed up the user data. Thanks for asking.) Disable things in BIOS - I disabled the few things that the BIOS lets me disable: power management, legacy usb, minipci, serial port, auto-wake, and a few other things I don't recall. Still have the problem. Memory DIMMs - I tried with only one DIMM and even tried a DIMM from another DELL Latitude laptop that has not had any problems. Still have the problem. Video - Dan suggested using a Live CD and just trying the console. How do I do that? External warming - Not sure how to do this other than light a fire in the fireplace, but that might tempt me to throw in the laptop! :-) Reset connectors, etc. - Haven't tried this yet. eBay - I did a quick check and found a dozen or more of this model, both fully working and partial systems. Memtest86/86+ - (Ben, thanks for the links.) This is last since this is what I spent most of my time on. Both versions of memtest behaved the same. When the system is stone cold (off over night), memtest does not finish writing it's initial text to the screen before it locks up. After it's been left sitting for 15-20 minutes I power off and then on and memtest finishes writing all the text, but the elapsed time never increments, although in some cases test #0 did update with a non-zero percent complete. After it's been on a while longer and I power off and then on it eventually gets to test #5 [block move] and hangs. This consistently happened if I let the tests run w/o intervention. If I hit 'c' and run tests #6, #7 and #8, they all pass. I even let test #6 run for 32+ passes as the web page says is needed to hit all patterns. The one interesting thing is that after running test #6, I hit 'c' and selected test #5 and that ran multiple passes w/o a problem. But if I power off and on the computer hangs on test #5. This was pretty repeatable. Does any of this memtest behavior indicate any specific component? Or do others have additional suggestions? If I can't solve this, I'll be going the eBay route. Thanks, Larry ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Hardware lockup - need suggestions for diagnosing
On Monday 11 December 2006 12:25 pm, Larry Cook wrote: If I can't solve this, I'll be going the eBay route. You've already spent far more time than the eBay ones are available for, in terms of cost. I'd guess this problem is most likely a motherboard issue. Find a similar laptop, throw your hard drive and memory in it, and I'll bet your problems go away. It's not likely anything you'll track down beyond that, as it's probably a loose/cold solder joint somewhere on one of the boards or a capacitor that is working properly only under very specific thermal conditions or something that will otherwise require a new motherboard anyway. New laptop on eBay will have that and more, in case you lose a keyboard, or screen, or the hinges, or any other things that can go wrong on an old laptop. -N ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Hardware lockup - need suggestions for diagnosing
On Dec 11, 2006, at 12:25 PM, Larry Cook wrote: Video - Dan suggested using a Live CD and just trying the console. How do I do that? For Knoppix, you boot and specify: knoppix 2 at the prompt. Most other LiveCDs will let you know how to access help on startup. Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Hardware lockup - need suggestions for diagnosing
On 12/11/06, Larry Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hard drive - I removed the hard drive and disabled it in the BIOS. No hard drive, no battery, running on AC, and it still locks up running a memory test? Yah, that's almost certainly a fault on a primary circuit board. Tracing the fault to a specific component or trace will be very difficult, if not impossible. Fixing it once you've found it would be harder still. Like Neil Schelly says, you're past the point of diminishing returns. It's time to go for wholesale part replacement. Or wholesale computer replacement -- you can get a new laptop for under $500 these days. Or a nice one for under $1000. External warming - Not sure how to do this other than light a fire in the fireplace, but that might tempt me to throw in the laptop! :-) You can do it with an oven that can maintain fine control of temperature at 90 - 150 degrees Fahrenheit. (I expect this excludes most household ovens.) At a past job, I was involved in a situation where they used a laboratory oven to determine what temperature something started failing at. They heated the circuit board to a given temperature, took it out, and ran their tests. I should have realized what I was envisioning is not worth the time/effort/etc for a commodity laptop. Plus you'll likely just reach the same conclusion either way: Motherboard needs to be replaced. Video - Dan suggested using a Live CD and just trying the console. How do I do that? This is up there with my oven idea. While it's technically valid, it's time-consuming, and likely will yield the same conclusion no matter what: Motherboard needs to be replaced. Laptops aren't like a desktop PC; the CPU support, video, peripheral I/O all tend to be on one circuit board. Sometimes even the memory and CPU heatsink will be part of a single PCB assembly. So no matter what the problem is, you're replacing the same part. Reset connectors, etc. - Haven't tried this yet. Even that is probably not worth the effort. While the Dell laptops are easier to service then most laptops, you're still talking lots of tiny screws, plastic tabs, sub-assemblies, all fitted together like a Japanese puzzle box. How much is your time worth? :) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Hardware lockup - need suggestions for diagnosing
For gentoo it would be gentoo-nofb (no frame buffer), other live cds, should give you options to choose a kernel, there should be one similar to no frame buffer or a run level 2 or 3. So far everything is pointing to a complete failure. If this doesn't work, find a local recycling center and give them a donation. Dan Larry Cook wrote: Dan, Ben, Ric, and others that replied directly, Thanks for your replies and suggestions. Here's is what I've done and know so far: Hard drive - I removed the hard drive and disabled it in the BIOS. Still have the problem. (And yes Ben, I've already backed up the user data. Thanks for asking.) Disable things in BIOS - I disabled the few things that the BIOS lets me disable: power management, legacy usb, minipci, serial port, auto-wake, and a few other things I don't recall. Still have the problem. Memory DIMMs - I tried with only one DIMM and even tried a DIMM from another DELL Latitude laptop that has not had any problems. Still have the problem. Video - Dan suggested using a Live CD and just trying the console. How do I do that? External warming - Not sure how to do this other than light a fire in the fireplace, but that might tempt me to throw in the laptop! :-) Reset connectors, etc. - Haven't tried this yet. eBay - I did a quick check and found a dozen or more of this model, both fully working and partial systems. Memtest86/86+ - (Ben, thanks for the links.) This is last since this is what I spent most of my time on. Both versions of memtest behaved the same. When the system is stone cold (off over night), memtest does not finish writing it's initial text to the screen before it locks up. After it's been left sitting for 15-20 minutes I power off and then on and memtest finishes writing all the text, but the elapsed time never increments, although in some cases test #0 did update with a non-zero percent complete. After it's been on a while longer and I power off and then on it eventually gets to test #5 [block move] and hangs. This consistently happened if I let the tests run w/o intervention. If I hit 'c' and run tests #6, #7 and #8, they all pass. I even let test #6 run for 32+ passes as the web page says is needed to hit all patterns. The one interesting thing is that after running test #6, I hit 'c' and selected test #5 and that ran multiple passes w/o a problem. But if I power off and on the computer hangs on test #5. This was pretty repeatable. Does any of this memtest behavior indicate any specific component? Or do others have additional suggestions? If I can't solve this, I'll be going the eBay route. Thanks, Larry ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Monadlug reminder
Hi, A reminder that there will be *no* Monadlug meeting this month. Our next meeting will be Thursday, Jan. 11, we'll hope to see everyone there. Happy holidays to all. --charlie -- Charles Farinella Appropriate Solutions, Inc. (www.AppropriateSolutions.com) [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: 603.924.6079 fax: 603.924.8668 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Hardware lockup - need suggestions for diagnosing
Larry- I am betting (not on a sure thing) that the motherboard is the site of the problem. One possibility hasn't been mentioned - bad aluminum capacitors. There was a huge number of bad ones a while back due to defective electrolytic being supplied to motherboard manufacturers. The caps tested OK, but would fail systems in weird ways after being in use for a while. Sometimes you could see a brownish deposit where a seal blew. I have come across several such motherboards (but not in laptops - I try to stay away from them). I am not sure what the dates were on this - but if your machine was manufactured before the problem was caught... If you can get a good look at your aluminum caps, you might be able to see whether any look funny - if so, they are fairly cheap to replace as a trial solution. The little tantalums were not an issue on that electrolytic snafu. Dave E. - Original Message - From: Larry Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: Re: Hardware lockup - need suggestions for diagnosing Dan, Ben, Ric, and others that replied directly, Thanks for your replies and suggestions. Here's is what I've done and know so far: Hard drive - I removed the hard drive and disabled it in the BIOS. Still have the problem. (And yes Ben, I've already backed up the user data. Thanks for asking.) Disable things in BIOS - I disabled the few things that the BIOS lets me disable: power management, legacy usb, minipci, serial port, auto-wake, and a few other things I don't recall. Still have the problem. Memory DIMMs - I tried with only one DIMM and even tried a DIMM from another DELL Latitude laptop that has not had any problems. Still have the problem. Video - Dan suggested using a Live CD and just trying the console. How do I do that? External warming - Not sure how to do this other than light a fire in the fireplace, but that might tempt me to throw in the laptop! :-) Reset connectors, etc. - Haven't tried this yet. eBay - I did a quick check and found a dozen or more of this model, both fully working and partial systems. Memtest86/86+ - (Ben, thanks for the links.) This is last since this is what I spent most of my time on. Both versions of memtest behaved the same. When the system is stone cold (off over night), memtest does not finish writing it's initial text to the screen before it locks up. After it's been left sitting for 15-20 minutes I power off and then on and memtest finishes writing all the text, but the elapsed time never increments, although in some cases test #0 did update with a non-zero percent complete. After it's been on a while longer and I power off and then on it eventually gets to test #5 [block move] and hangs. This consistently happened if I let the tests run w/o intervention. If I hit 'c' and run tests #6, #7 and #8, they all pass. I even let test #6 run for 32+ passes as the web page says is needed to hit all patterns. The one interesting thing is that after running test #6, I hit 'c' and selected test #5 and that ran multiple passes w/o a problem. But if I power off and on the computer hangs on test #5. This was pretty repeatable. Does any of this memtest behavior indicate any specific component? Or do others have additional suggestions? If I can't solve this, I'll be going the eBay route. Thanks, Larry ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
More Library News
One of the other tenants in the building where I have my office is University Press of New England. At the Holiday Building Bash, they raffled off some books. I was a winner and have added the book to the library: http://www.librarything.com/work/1527838book=9227190 The Good Beer Guide to New England -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp. 1 Court Street, Suite 378 Lebanon, NH 03766-1358 voice: 603-653-8139 fax:320-210-3409 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
