Re: SPARC Live CD?
On Wednesday 20 December 2006 07:13 pm, Paul Lussier wrote: I wouldn't call myself a Solaris fan, I haven't really used it in about 5 or 6 years. But I know it well enough to feel at home there and found your description of painfully lacking a bit extreme. That wasn't a dig on all Solaris boxes everywhere. On this machine, it's appropriate. It was setup long ago by people who shouldn't be allowed to touch a computer. I turned it on and /usr/local couldn't be mounted. I don't know the root password off the top of my head. Ask me where sudo was installed next. Hmmm, I seem to check man pages by instinct and make liberal use of -(-)h(elp). As far as stuff not being in my $PATH, ahm, that's *almost* not possible :) And doesn't it take you longer when you have to check the man pages for each common command you run? Or when `man gzip` doesn't give you anything useful because the man pages either aren't to be found or aren't even in one of the thousand man paths you already know about? There's crap all over this machine. I never setup a real home on it and any portable home scripts I could use would be out of place since this machine is so scattered. (though not with locate because that's not there). Locate is too often wrong (i.e. not up-to-date) to be dependable for me. It's not up to date? It's as up to date as it was when it last ran. This is an old machine that isn't actively being used even. What do you use that's quicker than locate? To me, the amount of time spent looking for, downloading, and burning the appropriate Live CD would have been far greater than a simple perusal of a couple of man pages. I can download a CD image without looking. It comes with the opportunity to do my job more quickly. Browsing around with a man page lookup every few keystrokes is annoying and keeps me from doing other things. If I found that I *really* needed something from GNU or Linux that Solaris was missing, I'd extract the drive from the Sparc and mount it under Linux and just us rsync/cp/mv/tar to put it where I can easily get at it rather than mess with a LiveCD distro. At least that way I'd also have my own home directory, shell, environment, and extensions at my disposal as well. I view LiveCDs as either a nice way to try out a new distro or an indispensable recovery tool when there's absolutely no other easier way. Again, just my opinion. I don't have another machine I can put these drives in. I can't imagine what would cause you so much hatred toward LiveCDs. I don't have some super custom environment I work in that a LiveCD with a modern BASH shell doesn't suffice me fine for. I consider it good to have a collection of them handy for rainy days too, so it would have been nice to find a LiveCD I could use on this box in the event I needed one down the road. I learned something as did everyone here from the experience of looking. Why do I feel like I'm defending myself for asking a question? -N ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: SPARC Live CD?
On 12/21/06, Neil Joseph Schelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 20 December 2006 07:13 pm, Paul Lussier wrote: I wouldn't call myself a Solaris fan, I haven't really used it in about 5 or 6 years. But I know it well enough to feel at home there and found your description of painfully lacking a bit extreme. That wasn't a dig on all Solaris boxes everywhere. On this machine, it's appropriate. It was setup long ago by people who shouldn't be allowed to touch a computer. I turned it on and /usr/local couldn't be mounted. I don't know the root password off the top of my head. Ask me where sudo was installed next. You get used to all the extensions that are not in Solaris when you're on Linux. I'd argue that Linux is more the defacto standard Unix then Solaris. Or maybe MacOSX. Once upon a time, most freeware seemed to be developed on SunOS and ported elsewhere. Solaris was usually 3rd. As Linux got better and SunOS faded, Linux (i386) has become the development platform. sudo on Solaris isn't standard. It's part of the Software Companion DVD which puts it in /opt/sfw/bin. I think the Companion DVD started with Solaris 8. We have a few Solaris 2.6 systems here. /bin/bash isn't there so I use /bin/ksh as my login shell. Linux (and Cygwin) uses PDksh which works *almost* the same as ksh88 but not quite as well as bash. At home I use bash. I'm always toggling between the command line syntax. You have my sympathies. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: SPARC Live CD?
Neil Joseph Schelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That wasn't a dig on all Solaris boxes everywhere. On this machine, it's appropriate. It was setup long ago by people who shouldn't be allowed to touch a computer. I turned it on and /usr/local couldn't be mounted. I don't know the root password off the top of my head. Ask me where sudo was installed next. Where was sudo installed :) If the system is that bad, then it's worth the time and effort to extract the drive(s) and mount them on a better system and extract the data that way. Hmmm, I seem to check man pages by instinct and make liberal use of -(-)h(elp). As far as stuff not being in my $PATH, ahm, that's *almost* not possible :) And doesn't it take you longer when you have to check the man pages for each common command you run? It might take me a little longer, but annoyingly so. If ps -efl doesn't work, I just quickly switch to using ps -auxw, if I get an error with that, I remove the -. sed, awk, find, and tar almost always take the same basic options, as a matter of fact, I can't think of a standard/basic option that is different that I use commonly. Sure, gnu tar can take a -z or a -j option, but those are either standard or common. tar everywhere takes (c,x)vf, that's all that's really necessary. Or when `man gzip` doesn't give you anything useful because the man pages either aren't to be found or aren't even in one of the thousand man paths you already know about? I can't even remember the last time I looked at man gzip. It's been never since I needed something more than the basic options for gzip or bzip2. And since both are gnu tools, I wouldn't expect them on a non-gnu system and therefore wouldn't expect tar to have -z or -j options to support them. compress is always there, as is the tar -Z option to use it (does anyone even remember tar.Z files, or is it just me? :) There's crap all over this machine. I never setup a real home on it and any portable home scripts I could use would be out of place since this machine is so scattered. All the more reason to extract this drive and relocate it to someplace more comfortable. (though not with locate because that's not there). Locate is too often wrong (i.e. not up-to-date) to be dependable for me. It's not up to date? It's as up to date as it was when it last ran. Right, my point exactly! When was that? Is it set to run out of cron properly? Is cron running correctly? Has this system been off for some amount of time? Has it had periods of being up, then down? Has software been installed since the last time locatedb was updated? Does locate know about all the paths where something might be installed? All these questions are rhetorical. In a forensics situation they're almost all unknown, and therefore make locate unreliable. Most people assume locate just magically knows where everything is and never consider the possibility it could be wrong. It is often reconfigured. I manage an environment with 300+ machines and all them use a localized locatedb.conf file which actually prunes certain directory structures from being included. And many of things which are pruned do in fact contain stuff someone might expect locate to know about. Locate is nothing more than an cron-automated find. Not to mention that on many systems the locatedb is intentionally turned off because it gets in the way of other things when it's running. What do you use that's quicker than locate? which, whence, where, whereis, find, man -k. I also depend upon my PATH being mostly all inclusive and my memory for the most likely places things might be installed so I have a good place to look. For those things which I know are there or should be but can't find quickly, I use find. To me, the amount of time spent looking for, downloading, and burning the appropriate Live CD would have been far greater than a simple perusal of a couple of man pages. I can download a CD image without looking. It comes with the opportunity to do my job more quickly. Browsing around with a man page lookup every few keystrokes is annoying and keeps me from doing other things. How fast can you download and burn a CD image and then boot the system with it? And why are you looking up command options every few key strokes? If you're merely looking for certain types of data, find some path a couple of standard options | xargs grep some pattern will work on every UNIX out there. Remove the | xargs and add a /tmp/interestingFiles.txt then wrap tar around that to gather what you need and you're mostly done. If the problem is really just not knowing which options are the common, standard, portable ones, then again, removing the drive and attaching it to another system is still alot faster than downloading, burning, and booting from a live CD. I don't have another machine I can put these drives in. Really? Hmmm, that can be a problem :) Do you not have another physical piece of
Re: SPARC Live CD?
On 12/21/06, Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: removing the drive and attaching it to another system is still alot faster than downloading, burning, and booting from a live CD. You need a faster Internet connection, then. ;-) Or are you still trying to route your Internet feed through that non-existent gateway? Pretty sure that doesn't work on a Sun, either. ;-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: SPARC Live CD?
On 12/21/06, Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... gzip or bzip2. And since both are gnu tools, I wouldn't expect them on a non-gnu system ... The point you seem to be missing, Paul, is that if one has spent forever working on GNU systems, and is then suddenly put on to a non-GNU system, then suddenly, all the options, syntax, features, etc., one has been using forever suddenly stop working. Yes, one can adapt, but the *point* is that one's efficiency is seriously hampered, to the point of excruciating frustration. I once sat down at a computer that had a funky keyboard. What should have been the space bar was split into two smaller bars. The left bar was the space key, as normal. The right bar was an extra backspace key. Have yoever trietyping wheevery othespace turninto backspace? (Have you ever tried typing when every other space turns into a backspace?) Sure, I knew *exactly* what to do to work around this issue. All I had to do was only type space with my left thumb. Easy, right? But I've been typing on QWERTY keyboards since I was six years old! Get it? :-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: SPARC Live CD?
On 12/21/06, Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/21/06, Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... gzip or bzip2. And since both are gnu tools, I wouldn't expect them on a non-gnu system ... The point you seem to be missing, Paul, is that if one has spent forever working on GNU systems, and is then suddenly put on to a non-GNU system, then suddenly, all the options, syntax, features, etc., one has been using forever suddenly stop working. Yes, one can adapt, but the *point* is that one's efficiency is seriously hampered, to the point of excruciating frustration. I once sat down at a computer that had a funky keyboard. What should have been the space bar was split into two smaller bars. The left bar was the space key, as normal. The right bar was an extra backspace key. Have yoever trietyping wheevery othespace turninto backspace? (Have you ever tried typing when every other space turns into a backspace?) Sure, I knew *exactly* what to do to work around this issue. All I had to do was only type space with my left thumb. Easy, right? But I've been typing on QWERTY keyboards since I was six years old! I switch between my PC at my desk, lab PCs, Sun, work laptop, home laptop and Macintosh. The ~ key is in a different location on every keyboard. The lab PCs have swapped around the keys above the cursor keys. Worst of all, the Sun has a blank key where a PC has the esc key and the esc to the left of the 1 key. And the control key/caps lock swapped from the PC. I'm always getting a beep instead of esc or capitals instead of control characters ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: SPARC Live CD?
On 12/21/06, Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neil Joseph Schelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (though not with locate because that's not there). Locate is too often wrong (i.e. not up-to-date) to be dependable for me. It's not up to date? It's as up to date as it was when it last ran. Right, my point exactly! When was that? Is it set to run out of cron properly? Is cron running correctly? Has this system been off for some amount of time? Has it had periods of being up, then down? Has software been installed since the last time locatedb was updated? Does locate know about all the paths where something might be installed? All these questions are rhetorical. In a forensics situation they're almost all unknown, and therefore make locate unreliable. Most people assume locate just magically knows where everything is and never consider the possibility it could be wrong. It is often reconfigured. I manage an environment with 300+ machines and all them use a localized locatedb.conf file which actually prunes certain directory structures from being included. And many of things which are pruned do in fact contain stuff someone might expect locate to know about. Locate is nothing more than an cron-automated find. Not to mention that on many systems the locatedb is intentionally turned off because it gets in the way of other things when it's running. Solaris doesn't have locate :-) Not even Solaris 10. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: SPARC Live CD?
Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 12/21/06, Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: removing the drive and attaching it to another system is still alot faster than downloading, burning, and booting from a live CD. You need a faster Internet connection, then. ;-) Well, yes, but don't we all? ;) Seriously though, LiveCDs are not usually less than 100MB. To download that is going to take some time. One can pop a drive and re-attach it to a different system faster than that. Not to mention that running off a CD is going to be a lot slower than running of a live HD :) Or are you still trying to route your Internet feed through that non-existent gateway? Pretty sure that doesn't work on a Sun, either. ;-) I fixe that. The gateway exists now, but for security reasons I disconnected the other interface ;) -- Seeya, Paul -- Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: SPARC Live CD?
Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 12/21/06, Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... gzip or bzip2. And since both are gnu tools, I wouldn't expect them on a non-gnu system ... The point you seem to be missing, Paul, is that if one has spent forever working on GNU systems, and is then suddenly put on to a non-GNU system, then suddenly, all the options, syntax, features, etc., one has been using forever suddenly stop working. I'm not missing that point, I'm assuming (and we all know what happens there ;) that others also have similar experience to me, and are used to jumping between a variety of different UNIX variants. I'm also assuming that most people learned UNIX before Linx and GNU were more or less universal. And *those* assumptions are incorrect. -- Seeya, Paul -- Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: SPARC Live CD?
On 12/21/06, Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seriously though, LiveCDs are not usually less than 100MB. To download that is going to take some time. With bittorrent, I can and have pulled down CD images in 12 minutes. Pulling apart two computer cases, powering things on and off, etc., isn't really that much faster. So neener, neener. ;-) The gateway exists now, but for security reasons I disconnected the other interface ;) Hey, that's a good idea! I'm gonna do that on my firewall right now-- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
New Linux Installs from long time ago
A long while ago, I starte a thread regarding trying new distros. Well, I just tried Ubuntu, and oh my gawd am I ever impressed. It isn't even INSTALLED yet, it's just booted from the CD, and it recognized nearly ALL of my Toshiba laptops hardware. I have an up and running basic desktop without answering even *1* question. And a nice little icon saying 'Install' with a little icon pointing to a little computer. This is GREAT! -- -- Thomas ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
[GNHLUG] PySIG next week! Decorated cookies! Decorated functions!
For survivors of the upcoming celebrations, PySIG awaits for that perfect finish. Decorations. Our own Kent Johnson will lead us through the wonderland of Decorators Redux. (We've talked about function decorators before, but some of us, including yrs truly, are slow learners.) And decorators really ARE rich and powerful, especially with with in 2.5. Also recent Python happenings, more favorite gotchas, and plenty of enthusiastic conversation about all things Python. Next Thursday evening, 7:00 PM at the Amoskeag Business Incubator, NewbieHalfHour at 6:30PM, milk cookies, all as usual. Except, of course, for that special spirit of ho, ho, ho... Hoping_your_holidays_are_wonderful'ly yrs, -Bill and Janet ___ gnhlug-announce mailing list gnhlug-announce@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-announce/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: New Linux Installs from long time ago
Thomas Charron wrote: A long while ago, I starte a thread regarding trying new distros. Well, I just tried Ubuntu, and oh my gawd am I ever impressed. It isn't even INSTALLED yet, it's just booted from the CD, and it recognized nearly ALL of my Toshiba laptops hardware. I have an up and running basic desktop without answering even *1* question. And a nice little icon saying 'Install' with a little icon pointing to a little computer. This is GREAT! I've been running it for a couple of weeks now and agree it has it's benefits. On the other hand, it's the only Linux distro I've ever seen that tells me it's updated my OS and now I need to reboot. Reboot? Linux? I don't know what to think of that. --charlie -- Charles Farinella Appropriate Solutions, Inc. (www.AppropriateSolutions.com) [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: 603.924.6079 fax: 603.924.8668 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: New Linux Installs from long time ago
Well, it IS the safest way to ensure anything running is up to date, and any new libraries are also utilized. Thomas On 12/21/06, Charles Farinella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Charron wrote: A long while ago, I starte a thread regarding trying new distros. Well, I just tried Ubuntu, and oh my gawd am I ever impressed. It isn't even INSTALLED yet, it's just booted from the CD, and it recognized nearly ALL of my Toshiba laptops hardware. I have an up and running basic desktop without answering even *1* question. And a nice little icon saying 'Install' with a little icon pointing to a little computer. This is GREAT! I've been running it for a couple of weeks now and agree it has it's benefits. On the other hand, it's the only Linux distro I've ever seen that tells me it's updated my OS and now I need to reboot. Reboot? Linux? I don't know what to think of that. --charlie -- Charles Farinella Appropriate Solutions, Inc. (www.AppropriateSolutions.com) [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: 603.924.6079 fax: 603.924.8668 -- -- Thomas ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
I'm a Mac commercial spoof
I was telling Ben about this video at the MerriLUG meeting tonight. I think many folks here would appreciate it :) (profanity inside, you've been warned). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjpn3L3bSJQ See their other spoofs on youtube or at their website, http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/ Enjoy! -Shawn ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
