Low Power User Squeaks Up
I like the premise of the proposed new SIG, and it is something I have been suggesting (quietly - or I might get volunteered) since I got involved. Linux provides a business advantage which does not require knowledge of its innards. I need to produce complex scientific programs (map data reduction, gravity wave detection, etc). The most popular operating system outright discourages anyone who wishes to write code that must be fast and memory efficient. It insists the user go through a GUI with Visual-this and Visual-that. And then there are the licensing complications. There must be a few in the group who want to share tips on how to use the applications available on Linux: how to make Qcad scale only the x-axis of a circle, how to get updated database information into OpenOffice documents, how to present equation sets to maxima for the most efficient solution, etc. Admittedly, as the topics move to applications, they get directly relevant to a much smaller set of users. The innovation needed for the new group's premise is how to make an application-specific talk of interest to a wider group than just those using that application. I have no answer to that challenge. Moving yet another abstraction step from the Linux innards, what does one do with the applications themselves. What are the best fonts to use on a web page? How can one make an OpenOffice sales presentations most effective? What shot angles characterize the most successful U-tube videos? I deal with a lot of non-computer professionals who would be happier using Linux than their present OS and software selection - if Linux was setup and maintained for them. The evolving challenge for Linux advocates, it would seem, is how to bring them into the fold. They are not as big a group as the general public, but they are influential. The new SIG proposal offers both innovation and experimentation opportunities for this group's movers and shakers. Is there a concept for a general non-power-user application-oriented SIG that can attract a wide enough audience to persist? Time to get back to explaining to NASA why the stronger temperature-entropy tensor coefficient makes thermal diffusivity, not elastic-wave propagation velocity, the critical factor in laser removal of sub-micron particles from the mirrors of the James Webb Space Telescope. (Just another example of an OO application with wide general appeal.) Jim Kuzdrall ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Low Power User Squeaks Up
On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 07:01:56AM -0400, Jim Kuzdrall wrote: .. A lot of stuff that was very spot on.. Linux provides a business advantage which does not require knowledge of its innards. But Most Especially This: I deal with a lot of non-computer professionals who would be happier using Linux than their present OS and software selection - if Linux was setup and maintained for them. Where do we send people for that warm fuzzy feeling they get from knowing that their system will always work or will be fixed asap if it doesn't? Do we have a pool of Linux support vendors that we as GNHLUG can informally recommend? Having such a pool would be a benefit to COSIG's ability to assist people in the transition to Linux and I believe there is currently a gap in this area. (or at least in my awareness in this area.) Time to get back to explaining to NASA why the stronger temperature-entropy tensor coefficient makes thermal diffusivity, not elastic-wave propagation velocity, the critical factor in laser removal of sub-micron particles from the mirrors of the James Webb Space Telescope. C'mon, Jim. Everyone knows that. (yup, sure, I do... ;-) ) Jeff Kinz ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: New GNHLUG SIG
I'm surprised this turned into a flame war, and in that light I'll only reply here on the single phrase that started it. I wasn't very offended by the gay comment myself, but I do feel strongly that when such comments are made they need to be spoken about openly. I don't believe VirginSnow intended that remark as an insult towards me or my relationship with my partner, I think it was an honest mistake and I won't hold it against him if that's the end of it. It's not about blame, it's about keeping each other's use of potentially alienating language in check. I can say from personal experience, in the past I have felt unwelcome in groups where statements like this were made even by one member, especially in cases where I was new to a group. They tend to stand out against the rest of the message and be strongly remembered. I have heard similar sentiments from many others in the gay community as well as from women and racial minorities. This thread makes it clear where GNHLUG members stand on the issue. Thanks everyone for speaking up. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Ubuntu SIG
Before talking about SIG formation, I think clarification needs to be made about the Ubuntu New Hampshire LoCo; LoCos are teams within the Ubuntu project with a geographic focus. Some countries LoCos tackle translations and language-specific install CDs, others just represent Ubuntu at conferences and events in their region, some are primarily social groups where Ubuntu members in the same area go out for beer once a month. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoFAQ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoWorkingWithOtherGroups The NH LoCo is in forming stage, not accepted, and is still being established. At the BBQ a group of us were discussing the lack of regular user focus in GNHLUG and different ideas were tossed around, including just hosting some workshops at different chapters to starting a SIG. The idea of starting an Ubuntu SIG came out of this. The idea behind this is a vast majority of regular users use Ubuntu and many of the problems they face are distro specific. We could and should also be presenting workshops along these topics at the local chapters as well, a SIG further promotes community building within this growing set of GNU/Linux users and without having existing GNHLUG chapter members feeling bored by sitting through a workshop on using Synaptic repositories, much less having chapter members feel like they're being taken over by Ubuntu users. I think the distro-agnostic status of chapters is good thing to maintain. Speaking from my own experiences with past clients, most regular users are more familiar with the Ubuntu name than even Linux, so with that goal in mind and given that much of the outreach for the SIG will be through including a sticker or card on distributed Ubuntu CDs, I think the name is appropriate. The SIG isn't about getting existing Linux users to switch to Ubuntu, it's not about activism or outreach or promotion. It's just a group for Ubuntu users to socialize and learn more about the software they're running. Some of the workshops will obviously tackle applications, and I'm sure users of many distros would find them interesting, but a good % will be specifically about Ubuntu; every 6 months there's a new release, how to install Ubuntu on specific hardware, Ubuntu variants (ie, edubuntu), upgrade issues and help, unofficial package repositories, setting up Ubuntu for MythTV, etc. I don't think it'd be helpful to merge the SIG as a cross-distro group, any more than it'd be helpful to merge RubySIG and PySIG into a generic Programmers SIG. Yes, some of the topics between the groups are generic, but most are not. I also don't see a reason why there couldn't be a Fedora SIG if a group of people wanted to form one. If Ubuntu is surplanted as the leading regular user distro in a few years, this SIG will fade out and may be replaced, and that's OK. Heck, an Ubuntu SIG workshop topic could be Migrating from Ubuntu to gOS. As the members of such a SIG are regular users, not activists, an outreach component included in it's purpose is misplaced. I'm not saying that GNHLUG shouldn't be involved in activism/outreach, just that it doesn't need a SIG (much less included in this one). ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Ubuntu SIG
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 18:18:41 -0400 From: Arc Riley [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip I don't think it'd be helpful to merge the SIG as a cross-distro group, any more than it'd be helpful to merge RubySIG and PySIG into a generic Programmers SIG. Yes, some of the topics between the groups are generic, but most are not. Actually, the Ruby SIG has taken up topics on languages other than Ruby (i.e. Python) and has, very generally speaking, opened itself up to being more a general scripting lanugages SIG. (Almost a direct quote of one of it's members, spoken at a recent Ruby SIG meeting.) As the members of such a SIG are regular users, not activists, an outreach component included in it's purpose is misplaced. I think I see where we're misunderstanding eachother here It sounds like you're intepreting me to mean that all the new users would be members of COSIG. That's not what I intended to mean. The idea I meant to suggest was: (1) COSIG would be composed of activists/support personel (2) these activists/supporters would hold promotion/support events (3) new users would attend the support events This is not to suggest that new users would be attending COSIG organizational meetings (where they would likely be really bored) or be expected to participate in outreach events as new users. I don't see the new users actually *joining* COSIG until either they want to spread the word about FOSS, or are both willing and able to help other new users adapt to it. I hope that's clearer. Of course, my ideas are far from (time to choose an adjective... making sure it's PC... OK.) infallible. If anyone thinks they have a better way of structuring this, I'm all ears. I'm not saying that GNHLUG shouldn't be involved in activism/outreach, just that it doesn't need a SIG (much less included in this one). I disagree, quite strongly, with that idea. There are people in GNHLUG who want to promote Linux. Unfortunately, they're geographically quite spread out. Locally, there aren't likely to be enough Linux advocates in a given geographical area to become a serious force. Because interest in advocacy in NH is so sparse, those interested have to be gathered from all corners of GNHLUG. In the past, the GNHLUG mailing lists have been used to organize events such as Hosstraders/Nearfest. Unfortunately, that tends to lead to a very event-oriented approach in which the idea of outreach can very easily get lost. (When the event is over, the outreach is over.) What I envision COSIG to be (again, others chime in with YOUR ideas) would be a state-wide effort with a dedicated purpose to promote and support Linux. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Ubuntu SIG
I think I see where we're misunderstanding eachother here It sounds like you're intepreting me to mean that all the new users would be members of COSIG. We're not misunderstanding anything, we're talking about two entirely separate groups; You're talking about an activist/outreach group that partly conducts workshops for new users We're talking about a group by and for regular users I am not at all interested in your outreach group idea, I have heard you speak about it on several accounts and the entire model is disfavorable to the type of community building I'd like to see and what I've seen be sucessful in the past in many cities/groups. IFSA has survived and thrived because a large number (possibly a majority) of the people doing much of the work are self proclaimed non-geeks. Of course you need people around who know stuff, but people stick with communities which they're a part of, otherwise they're just patrons. The booths and tables that IFSA does regularly need little to no group organization, one or two people do most of the paperwork, some traffic on the list, materials are collected at someone's house beforehand, and then people show up. There's no special interest group within IFSA doing this or separate meetings about where people are going to table next. I disagree, quite strongly, with that idea. There are people in GNHLUG who want to promote Linux. Unfortunately, they're geographically quite spread out. That's something this mailing list can be used for. If you want to do something, and don't have enough people, post hey, I want to table at X location/coneference, will anyone do it with me? Forming a SIG to have regular activism/outreach meetings is not going to suddenly make people more interested in doing those things. Even if you strongly feel the need for an outreach SIG, it's not like a new SIG slot has opened up and there's a competition over it. Go do it. Stop disrupting the Ubuntu SIG discussion. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
COSIG, Ubuntu SIG, or maybe both...
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 20:30:24 -0400 From: Arc Riley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org We're not misunderstanding anything, we're talking about two entirely separate groups; That's what it's begining to sound like. I am not at all interested in your outreach group idea, At the LoCo meeting on 6/14, you did seem excited about outreach. Perhaps I mistook your enthusiasm. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Besides, opting not to be an advocate is your perogative. IFSA has survived and thrived because a large number (possibly a majority) of the people doing much of the work are self proclaimed non-geeks. Of Just curious about this claim. Is this because having non-geeks (which, BTW, I don't consider to be a derogatory term) increases the number of people involved in the movement? I disagree, quite strongly, with that idea. There are people in GNHLUG who want to promote Linux. Unfortunately, they're geographically quite spread out. That's something this mailing list can be used for. If you want to do something, and don't have enough people, post hey, I want to table at X location/coneference, will anyone do it with me? I believe the -discuss list would be an insufficient tool for this task. Indeed, I've tried it before. So has Matthew Craig. Theoretically, hypothetically speaking, anything--even chapter or board meetings--could be conducted on a mailing list. But these are simple impracticalities. Forming a SIG to have regular activism/outreach meetings is not going to suddenly make people more interested in doing those things. This is true, but only partially so. Having a name, structure, and official status in GNHLUG would make the SIG more visible. It's a thing which people can name. (That's part of the reason I have no name, myself--so people are less inclined to see me as being a separate, individual, person.) Visibility and popularity aside, a SIG *would* serve to pull together what are now widely scattered hopes and ideas into a cohesive, acting, body. It's a matter of critical mass. You're familiar with Critical Mass. ;) Even if you strongly feel the need for an outreach SIG, it's not like a new SIG slot has opened up and there's a competition over it. This is begining to sound like a proposal for *two* new SIGs: one for staging advocacy activities, and another for new users to pal-around and feel community. Go do it. Stop disrupting the Ubuntu SIG discussion. Woah, Arc, take a deep breath. Try and look at this from my perspective. I got involved with the LoCo for the express purpose of advocacy. You got involved with it for your own--now apparently different--reasons. At the GNHLUG BBQ, I suggested the Advocacy SIG idea as a response to conflict occuring within the LoCo. Nikki, apparently misinterpreting my idea, came up with the Ubuntu SIG idea, which you seem to have latched onto and run away with. Now put my shoes on for a moment. From my perspective, it's you that's hijacking the Advocacy SIG idea. To be fair, I don't think either of us is disrupting the other. I think we are fans of two different ideas which just happen to be so similar that they've hitherto gotten confused: You want to create a community of new users. I want to create new users. Would you agree, then, that we are talking about creating two different SIGs? If so, what then would be the advantages/drawbacks to splitting into two separate SIGs? Would the board approve two new SIGs? What's black and white and red all over? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Automated Teller Machines
Okay, google fails me in this instance because of the obvious overlap with asynchronous transfer mode, but having worked for a bank and having had access to the ATM lab, I am very concerned about the machines from a security and reliability standpoint. (I won't get into the issues with the Diebold voting machines used in my original state, Ohio) Anyway, I wondered if there were any efforts to develop a Linux like OpenBSD or similar that was all but impenetrable and could run on minimal resources to produce an open-source and secure platform for banks to use instead of a low-end commodity PC and Win XP (let me just say this...dispense test mode). Anybody heard anything about this, or think it's a viable idea? It would seem an obvious opportunity for open source to step up to an ubiquitous application and prove its superiority. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: COSIG, Ubuntu SIG, or maybe both...
That's what it's begining to sound like. I'm glad you finally understand this. At the LoCo meeting on 6/14, you did seem excited about outreach. I have been and will continue to be involved in advocacy/outreach. That is different from being part of the group you're talking about. I'll argue that the reason you and Matthew have been unsuccessful has nothing to do with it being on a mailing list, and forming a SIG will not change that. Further, you seem to misunderstand polite silence as agreement, and need to be told bluntly when someone is not interested in doing something with you. Not many people will be that blunt. Would you agree, then, that we are talking about creating two different SIGs? I've been telling you that for weeks. I think the board was pretty clear about what it takes to form a SIG at the board meeting. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Automated Teller Machines
On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Curtis Sandoval [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, I wondered if there were any efforts to develop a Linux like OpenBSD or similar that was all but impenetrable and could run on minimal resources to produce an open-source and secure platform for banks ... Not that I don't like the thought, but I think you're missing some key aspects of the situation: 1. Most of the insecurities around cash machines stem from poor understanding of security issues at the application layer. The OS is almost irrelevant. It's not like Windows XP or Linux have cash dispensing routines. (Windows tends to consume cash, not dispense it, hah hah.) 2. Historically, banks have depended almost entirely on physical methods and isolation for security, not higher level protections. ATMs do typically resemble a strong box or bank vault, so this isn't entirely an unrealistic approach. 3. minimal resources isn't the concern these days. Hardware is cheap. Banks are most concern with the organization which is providing the equipment and software -- the level of support they can provide, and their established reputation. Fundamentally, banks function based on reputation; this leads them to be very suspicious of newcomers. Simply throwing Linux at the problem isn't likely to work. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: COSIG, Ubuntu SIG, or maybe both...
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 21:47:47 -0400 From: Arc Riley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org I have been and will continue to be involved in advocacy/outreach. That is different from being part of the group you're talking about. Um. That *is* the purpose of the COSIG idea. I'll argue that the reason you and Matthew have been unsuccessful has nothing to do with it being on a mailing list, and forming a SIG will not change that. Matthew and I, combined, have held at least eight advocacy events last month, alone. I would hardly call that unsuccessful. Forming a SIG could only bring more people to the party, increasing the frequency and amplitude of our successes. :^) Further, you seem to misunderstand polite silence as agreement, and need to be told bluntly when someone is not interested in doing something with you. Yeah. Unfortunately, I lost my ability to read minds about six months ago. ;^) OK! Bed time for me. 'nite all... ^Z^Z^Z^Z^Z^Z^Z^Z ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Problem upgrading memory on Dell Inspiron 5100
On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Greg Rundlett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to 3rd-party websites, crucial.com (http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?imodule=CT12864X335), and newegg's own 'comments' section, this memory should be compatible Well, careful, now. You're comparing two different products, saying they have the same advertised specs, so they must be interchangeable. That's not always the case. For example, I know with some motherboards, the density of the modules matters. Crucial's Memory Finder claims the Inspiron 5100 is limited to 512 MB modules: http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=Inspiron+5100+Series According to Dell's own product specifications, the Inspiron 5100 is limited to 1 GB max system memory: http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ins5100/en/i5100-om.pdf You're looking at a support forum, and finding some information from people who managed to get it to work. The problem with that is that the spec's say what you're trying to do *won't work*. So according to all the authoritative information, what's happening is exactly what should happen. This is the problem when one exceeds the area of the supported and well-defined. You pays your money and you takes your chance. I suspect you're SOL. NewEgg has a very strict return policy. If something is defective, they'll get you a new one, but if you bought the wrong thing, that's your problem. If I'm at all unsure about a purchase, I always go through a reseller with a more liberal return policy. It usually costs about 10% more, but I'm getting something for that. Then again, you paid $16 for a RAM module; at that price, it's almost disposable. :-) Dell's support site gives no information about the upgrade of the BIOS. If I go to pull up the BIOS downloads for an Insiron 5100, I get offered a .EXE and a text file. The text file contains revision history going back to A20, which is labeled Initial release. No mention of RAM or memory is made. You state you updated from A06, which obviously contradicts the release notes. Is it possible you have some other model of laptop? For example, I know Dell had both an Inspiron 5000 and an Inspiron 5000e; despite the similar names they had very different internals. Since I don't have Windows on this machine, I used an ISO found online for the BIOS rather than Dell's .exe installer. Where did you find this ISO? From a trusted site, like Dell's Linux site? Or some random website? There's a lot of malware out there; I'd be careful if I were you. Linux's much-talked about better security won't help you if you willingly boot someone's malware on your machine. I could retry installing the BIOS - either by using a Windows XP boot CD or actually installing Windows to a partition. Windows NT install CDs are only good for installing Windows NT. (Windows XP is Windows NT version 5.1.) Unlike most Linux distro install CDs, they can't run arbitrary programs. The Dell .EXE BIOS updater says it can run from an MS-DOS boot floppy. If you don't have one, let me know; I'm sure I can find a legit disk and just give it to you for free. Not much call for Windows 95 these days. (Windows 95 (which is still the classic Windows product) still booted and ran on top of MS-DOS. So their install CDs are useful for running arbitrary MS-DOS programs.) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: COSIG, Ubuntu SIG, or maybe both...
I have been and will continue to be involved in advocacy/outreach. That is different from being part of the group you're talking about. Um. That *is* the purpose of the COSIG idea. Forming a group specifically for those activities and having regular outreach organizing meetings is very different from the model I've seen be successful. In fact, most activist groups that try operating on that model rarely last. The model that seems to work best is individuals or small groups, such as you and Matt, just going out doing it seems to work best. This is how a lot of stuff in GNHLUG seems to get done, including the SFD organizing going on, and I would speak up against an implication that your proposed SIG is where everyone who wants to do advocacy/outreach in GNHLUG has to go through. If you want to grow it, do something that you and Matt haven't been doing - drop an email to the list saying that you're going to be doing something and inviting people to join you. It may not be every time, but every so often someone may have some free time, and if they're energized by the activity and don't find it socially uncomfortable they may join you the next time too. Forming a SIG could only bring more people to the party, increasing the frequency and amplitude of our successes. :^) This is the core disagreement, I think. I believe you should form a group because there's energy and interest for doing so. You seem to believe that you form a group in order to raise energy and interest. I think Matt's attempting to do this through the LoCo shows quite clearly that the model you're promoting doesn't scale, and it also shows that you really don't need a large group involved to be effective. But hey, I'm not going to tell you how to spend your every third Friday night of the month. If there's a group of people wanting to do it, I have no disagreement with them doing that. Yeah. Unfortunately, I lost my ability to read minds about six months ago. ;^) 80% of human communication is non-verbal (body language). If you want to be successful in working with people, either in a social group or when doing advocacy/outreach, you need to learn how to read body language. Spoken from someone who had to learn body language as a skill (I'm autistic), you may want to pick up a book on the subject and spend some time working on that. It'll make you a much better advocate and improve your ability to socialize. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
