Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Kenny Lussier kluss...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Hewitt_Tech hewitt_t...@comcast.netwrote: What bugged me about the way Apple sells the Mini is their deliberate withholding of information from the customer so that the customer would feel obligated to buy much more expensive gear from them. Check out their web site and see if you can figure out what would be necessary to get the Mini setup using an existing monitor, keyboard and mouse. -Alex P.S. There's making money and then there's screwing the customer. I just spent about 30 seconds on their site, and found the Mac Mini tech specs. You need this: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQmco=MTA4NTYxMDQ. As for a mouse and keyboard, since it has 5 USB ports, you don't need anything. I bought a mini in March to use as a media center. I bought the Apple remote which just works. I had USB keyboards. I bought a bluetooth keyboard and mouse - they just worked. I bought a mini dvi to VGA adapter that just worked with my display. I have a standard TV with svideo input. I got a mini displayport to composite adapter. *bzzt*. The mini is digital only output. I had to get a vga to composite converter to get analog output to my TV. That was about $30 and not available from apple. I've since gotten an HDTV and a cheap 3rd party mini displayport to hdmi adapter. It just works. I could've built a low power PC as a media center, but the mini just works for everything I want to do. I didn't have to spend lots of time researching compatible parts. It's one of the lowest power desktops availble. And it looks pretty good next to the TV, Wii, etc. Now, if I wanted a server or general use system that didn't run MacOSX, then I'd choose something else. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
Tom Buskey wrote: On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Kenny Lussier kluss...@gmail.com mailto:kluss...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Hewitt_Tech hewitt_t...@comcast.net mailto:hewitt_t...@comcast.net wrote: What bugged me about the way Apple sells the Mini is their deliberate withholding of information from the customer so that the customer would feel obligated to buy much more expensive gear from them. Check out their web site and see if you can figure out what would be necessary to get the Mini setup using an existing monitor, keyboard and mouse. -Alex P.S. There's making money and then there's screwing the customer. I just spent about 30 seconds on their site, and found the Mac Mini tech specs. You need this: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQmco=MTA4NTYxMDQ http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQmco=MTA4NTYxMDQ . As for a mouse and keyboard, since it has 5 USB ports, you don't need anything. I bought a mini in March to use as a media center. I bought the Apple remote which just works. I had USB keyboards. I bought a bluetooth keyboard and mouse - they just worked. I bought a mini dvi to VGA adapter that just worked with my display. I have a standard TV with svideo input. I got a mini displayport to composite adapter. *bzzt*. The mini is digital only output. I had to get a vga to composite converter to get analog output to my TV. That was about $30 and not available from apple. I've since gotten an HDTV and a cheap 3rd party mini displayport to hdmi adapter. It just works. I could've built a low power PC as a media center, but the mini just works for everything I want to do. I didn't have to spend lots of time researching compatible parts. It's one of the lowest power desktops availble. And it looks pretty good next to the TV, Wii, etc. Apple does a great job with their power management software. In fact I can't think of anyone who does a better job. Recently I had a customer bring me their moderately expensive Acer laptop. The user had the Vista system hang on them. Thinking they were doing the right thing they closed the lid. The laptop didn't power down and since they left it running at full power with the lid closed, the motherboard cooked itself. The system was barely a year old (but out of warranty). I have clients who have bought more than twenty Mac Minis over the last few years. There has only been one failure (a hard drive) and I'm pretty sure that was due to someone sitting the Mini on edge and then knocking it over. So they definitely have reliability going for them. I think I mentioned that Apple has the highest customer satisfaction numbers and it's easy to see why. If you have a Dell product, unless you bought a business model, you might have a hard time with the off-shore support. For Apple, off shore is Canada and I defy most people to figure out the difference. -Alex Now, if I wanted a server or general use system that didn't run MacOSX, then I'd choose something else. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name wrote: I bought a mini in March to use as a media center. I bought the Apple remote which just works. I had USB keyboards. I bought a bluetooth keyboard and mouse - they just worked. I bought a mini dvi to VGA adapter that just worked with my display. I have a standard TV with svideo input. I got a mini displayport to composite adapter. *bzzt*. The mini is digital only output. I had to get a vga to composite converter to get analog output to my TV. That was about $30 and not available from apple. I've since gotten an HDTV and a cheap 3rd party mini displayport to hdmi adapter. It just works. I could've built a low power PC as a media center, but the mini just works for everything I want to do. I didn't have to spend lots of time researching compatible parts. It's one of the lowest power desktops availble. And it looks pretty good next to the TV, Wii, etc. Now, if I wanted a server or general use system that didn't run MacOSX, then I'd choose something else. I can't agree with this more. A Mac Mini can't be compared with a full-sized desktop. It does not have the expansion slots, or full-sized video ports, etc. If you want those things, and you want to run OSX, then you need to get a MacPro. The Mini is an all-in-one low-powered, decent performance system. It does what it does, and it does it well. If you want a server, buy an Xserve. If you want a small footprint desktop, get an iMac. If you don't want to run OSX, then don't buy any of the above. I have never had a problem finding any information on Apple hardware, and in the store, the emplyees have always been extremely knowlegable. I am failing to understand what the issue here is. C-Ya, Kenny ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Joseph ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Hey Everyone, I agree with all of your assessments thus far. Woudn't it be great if Apple opened up it's hardware model to allow for 3rd party hardware companies and just sold the OS? I don't think I would buy it even then but it would be a break from their monopolistic hardware/software coupling effort and prices would precipitously drop. But alas, I dream. Apple profits from this sweet business arraignment to the detriment of the consumer (much the same for other prestige brands). With so many great options for Linux on the desktop I don't even consider Apple. And yes even my girlfriend is running Linux (Ubuntu) on a $500 PC that does everything she needs. That other $2000 she should have spent on a shinny Apple was well spent elsewhere! =P Have a great weekend, Apple did this before, years ago. And they 'undid' this, as the resulting products where lackluster, and their 'apperent quality' went down the tubes. -- -- Thomas ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Joseph ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Hey Everyone, I agree with all of your assessments thus far. Woudn't it be great if Apple opened up it's hardware model to allow for 3rd party hardware companies and just sold the OS? I don't think I would buy it even then but it would be a break from their monopolistic hardware/software coupling effort and prices would precipitously drop. But alas, I dream. Apple profits from this sweet business arraignment to the detriment of the consumer (much the same for other prestige brands). With so many great options for Linux on the desktop I don't even consider Apple. And yes even my girlfriend is running Linux (Ubuntu) on a $500 PC that does everything she needs. That other $2000 she should have spent on a shinny Apple was well spent elsewhere! =P Have a great weekend, Apple did this before, years ago. And they 'undid' this, as the resulting products where lackluster, and their 'apperent quality' went down the tubes. -- -- Thomas ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Kenny Lussier kluss...@gmail.com wrote: I just spent about 30 seconds on their site, and found the Mac Mini tech specs. You need this: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQmco=MTA4NTYxMDQ Alex mentioned VGA. That adapter provides DVI. Perhaps you should have spent more than 30 seconds. ;-) FYI, Mini DisplayPort is apparently Yet Another Apple Proprietary Connector. Apple does love making goofy connectors. I guess it's somewhat forgivable in this case, given the small form factor of the Mini. And at least it actually gives you all the pins of the original connector. (Apple has introduced at least two SCSI connectors which sacrifice signal lines.) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name wrote: I got a mini displayport to composite adapter. *bzzt*. ... I had to get a vga to composite converter to get analog output to my TV. That was about $30 and not available from apple. ... ... the mini just works for everything I want to do. Reality Distortion Field is in effect, I see. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Ben Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: FYI, Mini DisplayPort is apparently Yet Another Apple Proprietary Connector. Apple does love making goofy connectors. I guess it's somewhat forgivable in this case, given the small form factor of the Mini. And at least it actually gives you all the pins of the original connector. (Apple has introduced at least two SCSI connectors which sacrifice signal lines.) Actually in this case, they made it well enough that it's now part of the DisplayPort 1.2 specification. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Ben Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Kenny Lussier kluss...@gmail.com wrote: I just spent about 30 seconds on their site, and found the Mac Mini tech specs. You need this: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQmco=MTA4NTYxMDQ Alex mentioned VGA. That adapter provides DVI. Perhaps you should have spent more than 30 seconds. ;-) FYI, Mini DisplayPort is apparently Yet Another Apple Proprietary Connector. Apple does love making goofy connectors. I guess it's somewhat forgivable in this case, given the small form factor of the Mini. And at least it actually gives you all the pins of the original connector. (Apple has introduced at least two SCSI connectors which sacrifice signal lines.) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ Actually, he said my existing monitor, keyboard, and mouse without specifying. Here you go: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB572Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQmco=MTA4MzU1NDg :-) C-Ya, Kenny ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
Hi, I have been watching this conversation for the past couple of days, and I would just like to throw in a small observation. People like Apple because of their design, because things plug together seamlessly, because everything works well. One simple reason for this is that Apple controls, to a large extent, both the hardware and software from top to bottom. Yes, there are notebook hard drives, but we all know that even when they follow a spec like IDE, there is slop in the spec, and there are other factors such as power consumption, heat generated, rotational speed, MTBF, etc. etc. Those of us old enough remember the early days of SCSI, when the spec wasscuzzy. This caused lots of differences in drivers. Over the years the spec tightened, and there fewer differences. Also, by controlling the hardware and software, Apple can lay out roadmaps of functionality. They can offer, within reason, features outside a standard spec. Their volumes, although lower than the volumes of Microsoft systems, allow them to compete reasonably in doing this. They also get to test a much smaller test matrix of hardware and software with every release of their OS. Not having to deal with all the different vendors is a great cost savings and a path to stability that Microsoft would have trouble achieving. Witness the rock-solid systems like VMS, MVS and other proprietary systems developed on in-house manufactured hardware. Secondly, I remember when Apple released their guide to developing apps for the MacIntosh, and how people complained about it. But they remained firm, and now they have a system that is consistent even to third party applications. But it comes at a price, both monetarily (prices to the consumer), with interoperability, and with Freedom. Sure, Apple makes more profit on their systems. But it is because people buy themand people buy them despite the closed nature of the development system because they are stable, well designed and do what some people want. It is a lot easier to do that when you have control of the entire system from beginning of design through manufacture. QED. I have watched Linux systems improve for the past 15 years. Free Software is amazing, and it is getting better. Certainly the GAP has closed between FOSS and Microsoft. The gap may or may not close between Apple and FOSS. I am sure that this will generate some discussion and possibly even flames. I will probably not answer them because I am really busy at the moment. Warmest regards, maddog ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
www.apple.com In the top navbar, click Mac In the navbar that comes up under that click Mac Mini In the Mac Mini navbar, click Tech Specs There is a section In the box that describes what it comes with (which does not include a keyboard and mouse) and there is a section called Graphics and video support which describes the types of video connections and required adapters for other types of connections. I don't call that withholding information -Shawn On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Hewitt_Tech hewitt_t...@comcast.netwrote: Ben Scott wrote: On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Alex Hewitt hewitt_t...@comcast.net wrote: Apple isn't in the business for their health. The goal of a business is to *MAKE MONEY*. Never, ever forget that, whether you're buying or selling. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ What bugged me about the way Apple sells the Mini is their deliberate withholding of information from the customer so that the customer would feel obligated to buy much more expensive gear from them. Check out their web site and see if you can figure out what would be necessary to get the Mini setup using an existing monitor, keyboard and mouse. -Alex P.S. There's making money and then there's screwing the customer. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Kenny Lussier kluss...@gmail.com wrote: Alex mentioned VGA. That adapter provides DVI. Perhaps you should have spent more than 30 seconds. ;-) Actually, he said my existing monitor, keyboard, and mouse without specifying. *sigh* On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Alex Hewitt hewitt_t...@comcast.net wrote: I already knew that if they were going to use their VGA CRT type monitor they were going to need an adapter. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems... By controling the support sphere
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Jon 'maddog' Hall mad...@li.org wrote: Hi, I have been watching this conversation for the past couple of days, and I would just like to throw in a small observation. People like Apple because of their design, because things plug together seamlessly, because everything works well. One simple reason for this is that Apple controls, to a large extent, both the hardware and software from top to bottom. They also get to test a much smaller test matrix of hardware and ... Absolutely. Apple customers are more likely to chose Apple products then not. Or buy from the Apple store that has tested more then the average 3rd party. software with every release of their OS. Not having to deal with all the different vendors is a great cost savings and a path to stability that Microsoft would have trouble achieving. Witness the rock-solid systems like VMS, MVS and other proprietary systems developed on in-house manufactured hardware. Or Sun or HP-UX systems. But it comes at a price, both monetarily (prices to the consumer), with interoperability, and with Freedom. It depends where you put your value. If I discount freedom in the hardware (by buying a laptop where everything is already chosen), I still have quite a bit of freedom in the Software. I can run Linux on any of the macintoshes sold today. I've run it on PPC systems too. Apple hasn't been as free with their hardware in the past (the 68k systems) and the iPod/IPhone are in that group, but the x86 systems have been fairly open to different OSen and software. Sure, Apple makes more profit on their systems. But it is because people buy themand people buy them despite the closed nature of the development system because they are stable, well designed and do what some people want. It is a lot easier to do that when you have control of the entire system from beginning of design through manufacture. QED. I have watched Linux systems improve for the past 15 years. Free Software is amazing, and it is getting better. Certainly the GAP has closed between FOSS and Microsoft. The gap may or may not close between Apple and FOSS. The Gimp vs Photoshop is a good example. Gimp can do everything Photoshop does, but people like the look feel of Photoshop. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How Apple makes more profit on their systems...
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Ben Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name wrote: I got a mini displayport to composite adapter. *bzzt*. ... I had to get a vga to composite converter to get analog output to my TV. That was about $30 and not available from apple. ... ... the mini just works for everything I want to do. Reality Distortion Field is in effect, I see. -- Ben Nope. I wanted a media computer to display videos I pulled from my TiVo to a large file server. I installed Boxee (and XBMC too) and the remote just worked. I now have an HDTV and an adapter to HDMI and it's perfect. This is what I wanted. While I waited to get the HDTV, it didn't work with the old TV, but I got the mini to work with the new TV I was going to buy. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
[GNHLUG] GNHLUG is turning 15! Let's have a party!
The first meeting of the Greater New Hampshire Linux User Group took place on Wed 19 Oct 1994. That means GNHLUG will be *FIFTEEN YEARS OLD* on Mon 19 Oct 2009. (And it hasn't even been asking about learning to drive. Such a well-behaved organization.)That's just under two weeks from today, as I write this. http://wiki.gnhlug.org/twiki2/bin/view/Www/FirstAnnouncement I propose gathering for dinner and drinks that evening, purely for social/nostalgia purposes. Somewhere in Manchester, perhaps -- Manch-Vegas is centrally located amongst most of NH's population centers (sorry, Bill!), and I believe it has the largest selection of eating-and-drinking establishments. Suggestions for a venue? I don't know that many MHT restaurants. Or a pot-luck dinner would work, too, I suppose, if someone wants to host one. Per long standing tradition, gathering would start after 6 PM ish and continue until whenever. :) Anyone else here interested? Post your ideas to gnhlug-discuss! List mail is still free. ;-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-announce mailing list gnhlug-annou...@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-announce/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
