Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone it is alive!
So after taking the phone apart, blowing the water out with compressed air as much as possible, I put it in a jar filled with a desiccant. After a few days the water droplets inside the display unit seemed to dissappear. The moment of truth had arrived. I put the battery in the phone and attached it to the charger. To my amazement the display lit up and showed a charging symbol. I considered that a good omen. Every minute the phone would beep. I looked that up in the manual, all that meant was that the battery was flat... After about 20 minutes on charge (and 20 beeps) I turned on the phone and connected to my local carrier. The phone set its time from the network. So it was successfully brought back from the dead. Only minor issue is a blotching in the display - a reminder of its washing. I did not rinse out the phone with alcohol or distilled water. Does anyone think I should remove the battery and go for a better bath/clean out of the crud - or should I leave well enough alone? Thanks for the suggestions. Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone it is alive!
up and showed a charging symbol. I considered that a good omen. Yes! So it was successfully brought back from the dead. Only minor issue is a blotching in the display - a reminder of its washing. Yeah! I did not rinse out the phone with alcohol or distilled water. Does anyone think I should remove the battery and go for a better bath/clean out of the crud - or should I leave well enough alone? Not at this point. Doing that before drying would have increased chances of success, but if you've only got a mild blotch on the screen, you're doing pretty well. -- Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
On May 2, 2006, at 15:03, Paul Lussier wrote: I ask, because we have an RO filter on our tap for drinking water, and was wondering if there's something special about the distillation process that somehow changes the water, or pertinent fact is the purity of water, regardless of the means of attaining that purity. Distilling does remove dissolved gasses, which is why distilled water tastes pretty bad. At least that's what the water quality guy on Ask This Old House said. It probably matters more if you're on a well or municipal - RO well water won't have much in it that's not in the air already. -Bill - Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
Bill Ricker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is why Steve O recommends rinsing in DISTILLED water Must it be distilled? Would RO-filtered water be effective? -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Lussier wrote: Bill Ricker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is why Steve O recommends rinsing in DISTILLED water Must it be distilled? Would RO-filtered water be effective? Dunno, but the last RO water we got from Whole Foods was very strongly flavoured with chlorine. So I guess RO doesn't filter dissolved gasses -- but distillation should. - -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ Millennium hand and shrimp! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQCVAwUBRFdnmZrNPMCpn3XdAQJzdQP/U1ra5wUm+qavNCQajo+m9dUJHpwZqf5k ZnTWkCf5VF8kYCnAaFszLuEU5wBbdesjHpkK3UBeVq8IzrXQsRHIYEX/yHY/QvhE rqrtbWd1+u3rdXqQvbWta2giiYnug93esQ4nj492M6q5X3ypX0rKWIkJZLDmCDUW celei2Ft2Zw= =IrzB -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
Rodent of Unusual Size [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dunno, but the last RO water we got from Whole Foods was very strongly flavoured with chlorine. So I guess RO doesn't filter dissolved gasses -- but distillation should. I ask, because we have an RO filter on our tap for drinking water, and was wondering if there's something special about the distillation process that somehow changes the water, or pertinent fact is the purity of water, regardless of the means of attaining that purity. -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jim Kuzdrall wrote: As I remember from trying to pump lasers system clean, water quickly freezes if you try to vaporize a droplet in a vacuum. Then you have to wait for it to sublime. We had lots of heating tapes on the chambers. Couldn't you speed the process along with, um, a laser or something? Yeah, that's it. :-) - -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ Millennium hand and shrimp! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQCVAwUBRFXmiprNPMCpn3XdAQKpVQQAujNBJfxPtLX+uRZE7j1g1xEf6O25Lmdp 57tp8kfdUAyRJlB+47GgisQ2TvFMyGMR8hYd7jpFyrlpDXXlmtreMT/QIWOeH2uX BJdp3V8qd0vGpORnaT0UZ8LdegxNnDRdwG3xf9bQEqUNymEmVDbFrazKCPOEApFp /GodUwUv8yo= =y9Mq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
On Monday 01 May 2006 06:44 am, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: Jim Kuzdrall wrote: As I remember from trying to pump lasers system clean, water quickly freezes if you try to vaporize a droplet in a vacuum. Then you have to wait for it to sublime. We had lots of heating tapes on the chambers. Couldn't you speed the process along with, um, a laser or something? Yeah, that's it. :-) Well, since that was the only laser around, and it wouldn't operate at much power dirty, that would be hard. (1964 Argon laser at Sanders Assoc, about 3W out for 20KW in.) We did get impatient, though, and used a Bernz-O-Matic LP torch from time to time. But the awful sound of the rough pump suddenly chugging as we hit a soft solder joint... Jim Kuzdrall ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
On Sunday 30 April 2006 11:42 pm, Bill Ricker wrote: I can't think of any electronic component that will burst at vacuum. After all, it is only 14.7 psi pressure change at most - even if you pump down below a micron. You get down to 8 psi I don't know of any specifically, but if Bob Bruninga, WB4APR, one of the microsat developers (for US Naval Academy and APRS+AMSAT), is concerned with testing for popping components as well as heat budget when building cheap satellites from COTS components, it's probably a real concern... On the equipment I designed for SkyLab and the International Space Station, the specs didn't mentioned gas pressure damage. But they were very, very concerned about out-gassing. Unlike... COTS components aren't designed to avoid air inclusions... As the original question posed, capacitors would be specific... For the cell phones and all modern equipment, the capacitors would be multilayer ceramics, tantalum, or stacked film surface-mount components. These manufacturing processes introduce no air-filled voids. I would think the strong epoxy overcoats themselves would easily withstand 14 psi in such small components. The large size, 1206, has .017 sqin internal area, for 4oz total pressure. In the old days, with wrapped film and foil tubular caps made in open atmosphere, there would more likely be bubbles to leak out. As per Mt. Rainier, how long do you keep your personal electronics at the summit? ... True, if you really want to burst something you would have to get up Mt. Rainier much faster than I can climb. The AMSATs are a great project. I haven't been active in ham radio since the sixties, but it was once my great passion. I remember Oscar I. If fact, I was up listening the night Sputnik went up. Lots of ham chatter that night. But I actually like playing with Linux and computers more now days. (See, I brought the discussion back on topic.) Jim Kuzdrall ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
On Mon, May 1, 2006 8:50 am, Jim Kuzdrall wrote: But I actually like playing with Linux and computers more now days. (See, I brought the discussion back on topic.) And back to the semi-off-topic original topic: I spilled milk (milk!) on my notebook's keyboard at work. D'oh! An immediate rinse with fab-quality isopropyl alcohol did the trick. (Sadly, the notebook that this one had replaced underwent an apple cider bath, and I didn't have any IPA on-hand. An hours-later soak/rinse was of no avail. And, yes, I'd previously gone for some 20-odd years without spilling anything on any computers. Then, in six months' time... ah, well.) I thought about distilled water, but decided I preferred IPA over distilled water because a) distilled water can become... un-distilled (though, if used in sufficient quantity, that would be irrelevant), and b) alcohol dries faster -- especially the super distilled stuff. -Ken ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
Jim Kuzdrall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 30 April 2006 06:45 pm, Jeff Kinz wrote: On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 01:53:35PM -0400, James R. Van Zandt wrote: This is one of the reasons I'd like a small vacuum chamber. That would pull moisture out of the crevices. Just curious - could subjecting a cell phone to vacuum (partial or otherwise) possibly cause things like capacitors to burst? I can't think of any electronic component that will burst at vacuum. The only glitch I could think of was a hard drive (well, not in a cell phone - at least not yet). It's vented through an air filter, I believe. Might not take kindly to a *sudden* change in pressure. - Jim Van Zandt ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
My daughter just laundered her phone. We pulled it out of the washing machine just now. Is there any hope on reviving it, I often put expensive electronic equipment in a bath of detergent to clean them. Then, as suggested, rinse them is de-ionized or distilled water. That is what they did to the circuit boards before they left the factory. As suggested, remove the batteries quickly. Open it up as much as possible and let it dry out. I would not worry too much about conductive flux in a cell phone. Many factories use non-rosin, no-clean flux now days to cut down on cleaning and solvent recovery costs - even in counties where the pollution is allowed. In addition, there are few if any high impedance connections in a cell phone that might be compromised by a little flux residue. Remember that the design has to tolerate the fumes from a cigarette smoker. My niece had her computer power supply on the lower story floor when the flood hit Keene last fall. She complained that the computer no longer worked and demonstrated that the power supply was dead when plugged in to AC. As I loosen the screws to see what might have blown inside, water poured out. A few minutes with the hair drier and it was working again. Jim Kuzdrall ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
That is what they did to the circuit boards before they left the factory. What they SHOULD have done, yes ... but our ham-club presentation from a professional re-work soldering instructor said that's rather more observed in the breach these days, most boards leave the line dirty. The new EU RoHS rules probably change everything again -- the new silver-solder will take somewhat higher heat, luckily the current board designs don't have a lot of metal to heat -- and luckily the cheaper, less-strong varieties of silver solder being developed for the RoHS applicatoins are Eutectic or Near-Eutectic, so we won't have the large number of cold joints we had with Sn60/Pb40 penny-pinching. -- Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
My daughter just laundered her phone. We pulled it out of the washing machine just now. Is there any hope of reviving it, ...rinse them in de-ionized or distilled water... Open it up as much as possible and let it dry out. This is one of the reasons I'd like a small vacuum chamber. That would pull moisture out of the crevices. - Jim Van Zandt ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [OT] [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
On Apr 29, 2006, at 12:41, Bruce Labitt wrote: My daughter just laundered her phone. We pulled it out of the washing machine just now. Is there any hope on reviving it, or should I just trundle down to the phone store for a new one? One time I went backcountry camping - I put the phone in the dog's pack so it would be easily accessible (without having to take my 90 pounder down). About two miles into the woods we came across a river. She's a Lab. I pulled the battery and hung it from the pack for the day and left it out in the sun whenever we stopped and that night it worked fine and for another couple years. The LCD panel was the slowest to dry but for family reasons I ran the phone with a wet LCD panel and it was fine (no damage but it didn't work well while wet). -Bill - Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 01:53:35PM -0400, James R. Van Zandt wrote: My daughter just laundered her phone. We pulled it out of the washing machine just now. Is there any hope of reviving it, ...rinse them in de-ionized or distilled water... Open it up as much as possible and let it dry out. This is one of the reasons I'd like a small vacuum chamber. That would pull moisture out of the crevices. Just curious - could subjecting a cell phone to vacuum (partial or otherwise) possibly cause things like capacitors to burst? -- Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. Speech Recognition Technology was used to create this e-mail ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
I can't think of any electronic component that will burst at vacuum. After all, it is only 14.7 psi pressure change at most - even if you pump down below a micron. You get down to 8 psi I don't know of any specifically, but if Bob Bruninga, WB4APR, one of the microsat developers (for US Naval Academy and APRS+AMSAT), is concerned with testing for popping components as well as heat budget when building cheap satellites from COTS components, it's probably a real concern. Unlike vacuum tubes, our COTS components aren't designed to avoid air inclusions in the package, and the adhesives don't have to be high tensile in terrestrial use. As the original question posed, capacitors would be specific concern just thinking first principles, since the various manufacturing processes have multiple ways to create air inclusions, and their packaging is often such that the surface areas of the joints is far less than the surface area of the plates, intentionally maximized. Chip manufacture has intentional voids, but has strong bonding zones, so I would guess more sporadic failure? As I remember from trying to pump lasers system clean, water quickly freezes if you try to vaporize a droplet in a vacuum. Then you have to wait for it to sublime. We had lots of heating tapes on the chambers. An IR lamp or heating tapes would probably help if trying to dry something out, yes. AMSAT speaks of vacuum-baking. As per Mt. Rainier, how long do you keep your personal electronics at the summit? How quick does it trek up? Stratospheric service outside the pressure cabin is higher and longer, I don't know if they have issues. A Bell Jar will take it higher, quicker and for freeze-drying, and hold it there longer. Likely the AMSAT folks are just paranoid about a rare event, since it's worth checking all your parts for rare failures because it's hard to replace a rare failure in orbit, and it wastes so much effort investment if one part fails after launch instead of before -- but it doesn't hurt us to be paranoid either, if the whole point is to rescue a phone. The popcorn effect and the freeze-then-sublimate issues are TWO reasons to do it at moderate partial pressure with a dry flow, not hard vacuum. Did you try that with your gas lasers when trying to dry them while evacuating? -- Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
[NLC] Drip Dry Phone
Pardon this non linux question. You guys/gals are tech savvy. [at least compared to me...] My daughter just laundered her phone. We pulled it out of the washing machine just now. Is there any hope on reviving it, or should I just trundle down to the phone store for a new one? Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
I've had electronics survive a wash if they're dried reasonably quickly... open as many openings as possible, and put it somewhere with dry air - near a low-wattage light bulb, perhaps. If you have some of those silica gel - do not eat packets around, put them in a toaster oven at minimum temp for 10 minutes, then put them in a sealed container with the phone. (No point in this if it's still obviously dripping.) --DTVZ On 4/29/06, Bruce Labitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pardon this non linux question. You guys/gals are tech savvy. [at least compared to me...] My daughter just laundered her phone. We pulled it out of the washing machine just now. Is there any hope on reviving it, or should I just trundle down to the phone store for a new one? Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
On Saturday, Apr 29th 2006 at 13:17 -0400, quoth Drew Van Zandt: =I've had electronics survive a wash if they're dried reasonably =quickly... open as many openings as possible, and put it somewhere =with dry air - near a low-wattage light bulb, perhaps. If you have =some of those silica gel - do not eat packets around, put them in a =toaster oven at minimum temp for 10 minutes, then put them in a sealed =container with the phone. (No point in this if it's still obviously =dripping.) = =--DTVZ I would just add that since it's already wet, the appropriate thing to do is to soak it again in distilled water. When it dries all of the residue of whatever is in there will be removed. = =On 4/29/06, Bruce Labitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Pardon this non linux question. You guys/gals are tech savvy. [at = least compared to me...] My daughter just laundered her phone. We = pulled it out of the washing machine just now. Is there any hope on = reviving it, or should I just trundle down to the phone store for a new one? = = Bruce -- A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting. Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: [NLC] Drip Dry Phone
Likely she's buying a new one, but it doesn't hurt to try, I've saved phones and pagers that went in various wet places. (Same applies to gameboys, computers, anything built from printed circuit boards.) Most important is to remove the battery immediately, even if off. With the length of a wash cycle, you may be shafted already on this, but it's more important during drying than during immersion. Reason -- residual solder-flux on the board is ionic and conductive -- they don't wash them like the used to -- and will disolve and the ions will field-align, and as it dries, will form crystals that, due to field alignment, grow in exactly the wrong direction and short out adjacent traces in potentially damaging ways. This is why Steve O recommends rinsing in DISTILLED water, it will draw out more of the flux ions than water that is already mineral-bearing. If no transistors or fuses are toasted, rewetting with distilled water and FLUSHING and slow drying -- with all batteries removed -- may recover the device. Do *not* attempt to accerate drying of any device including a liquid crystal panel above a very low warmth. A marble bun warmer might be the right technology here. -- Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
