Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 09:58 -0500, Lloyd Kvam wrote: On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 09:06 -0400, Bruce Dawson wrote: Hmmm. Maybe its time to have a presentation on GNUCash? Seems there have been lots of changes since I last looked at it! Are there any volunteers? I'll attempt the conversion of my books to Gnucash and keep notes. I'll still need to setup a Win/IE platform for payroll, but Gnucash should handle the rest. The migration notes seem to be more focused on moving from Quicken, but I assume I'll figure out a reasonable approach. I'll report back and if folks are interested I'll writeup the details. (Better late than never) I got my accounting converted to GnuCash in early October. I settled for setting up the same chart of accounts with the proper balances. That means my books are split for this year and I'll need to build a spreadsheet to consolidate the transactions for the year or figure out how to turn my old data into an importable format (e.g. QIF). Invoices, Payments, and Payables all work very well. They are managed under a Business menu heading for Customer, Vendor, Employee. The employee (me) handling is adequate for a small business when supplemented with some kind of payroll support. The Customer and Vendor handling is good. I really like the grid layout for managing transactions. It is extremely easy to handle reconciliations and the data entry shortcuts are intuitive. The personal finance features are not getting used, but look to be pretty complete and useful. The documentation is good and did a nice job of getting me started. The menus list a number of file acronyms for import. Those are not documented, but can probably be looked up from other sources. The data can be exported into an XML file. The documentation hints that XSL Transformations should enable fairly easy conversions to other formats. Creating a spreadsheets for transactions and account balances would be pretty nice. I suppose it's time to improve my XML skills... (Actually Google found a french site with XSLT for generating Gnumeric spreadsheets.) -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp. 1 Court Street, Suite 378 Lebanon, NH 03766-1358 voice: 603-653-8139 fax:320-210-3409 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
virgins...@vfemail.net writes: Ah. I thought, by ledger, you were referring to part of Gnucash. ledger is the name of one of Gnucash's components (the part in which the transactions are entered). It seems ledger is also a the name of an altogether different accounting package... Indeed. Sorry for the confusion. Ledger is a command-line, double entry accounting package by John Wiegely (of emacs fame). It's written in c++, is super fast, super simple, and super powerful. http://www.newartisans.com/software/ledger.html There's a Google Group here: http://groups.google.com/group/ledger-cli -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
From: Paul Lussier p.luss...@comcast.net Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 19:54:44 -0500 Cc: gnhlug-disc...@gnhlug.org Bruce Dawson j...@codemeta.com writes: OK. I'll ask the obvious next question - where did this 'ledger' command come from? Err, apt-get install ledger ? Though I tend to compile from source. It's a John Wiegley production, so it should be available from his website, www.newartisans.com. Ah. I thought, by ledger, you were referring to part of Gnucash. ledger is the name of one of Gnucash's components (the part in which the transactions are entered). It seems ledger is also a the name of an altogether different accounting package... ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Bill McGonigle b...@bfccomputing.com writes: On 02/24/2009 02:55 PM, Paul Lussier wrote: My goal is to track the gasoline usage, not the cost of the gasoline I use. The former doesn't vary much, whereas the latter varies drastically. Can you just enter gallons as dollars? No, because I want to track both my costs and my usage. In Ledger I can simply do this: 08/08 BJ's Wholesale Club Expenses:Auto:Fuel GAL 13.569 @ $ 3.669 Assets:BankAccounts:Checking$ -49.78 Then I can run a report like this to see total gas consumption: $ ledger -f ledger.dat -p 2008 bal fuel GAL 316.516 Expenses:Auto:Fuel GAL 316.516 p...@whozit - /Users/pll/personal/finance/ledger#[949] Or this when I want to report actual costs for gas: $ ledger -f usaack.dat -p 2008 -V bal fuel $ 1,161.30 Expenses:Auto:Fuel $ 1,161.30 I use this to track heating oil, gasoline, electricity, and pretty much anything else that has a frequently fluctuating dollar value. I haven't yet figured out how to track things like this in GnuCash. Other things I've done with ledger, not easily recreated in GnuCash (or any other finance package that I know of) is to track my commuting costs between driving, taking the T and the Commuter Rail. For example when I ride my bike to work during the summer months, I drive more and take the T less, but I also have to purchase separate Commuter Rail and T passes since I didn't get monthly passes during that time. I can easily track my T and Commuter Rail rides as a currency: 05/31 MBTA Liabilities:CreditCards:USAA $ -93.00 Assets:Commute:Train CR 12.00 06/04 Train to North Station Assets:Commute:Train CR -1.00 Expenses:Commute:Train 06/04 Green Line to Lechmere Assets:Commute:Train T -1.00 Expenses:Commute:Train 06/06 Commute Home to Bedford Assets:Auto:Fuel GAL -1.414 @ $2.999 Expenses:Commute:Fuel 06/06 Commute Bedford to Home Assets:Auto:Fuel GAL -1.414 @ $2.999 Expenses:Commute:Fuel Now I can track my commuting only costs: $ ledger -f BikeCommute.dat bal $ -135.23436 CR 5.00 GAL -132.812 T 1.50 Assets $ 662.708 CR 43.00 T 5.00 Expenses $ -480.500 Liabilities $ 46.973893224 CR 48.00 GAL -132.812 T 6.50 Which tells me I've put 480.50 on my credit card, I've got 1.5 T rides left, and 5 Commuter Rail rides left, and I've used 132 Gallons of gas. And I can quickly figure out the cost basis: $ ledger -f BikeCommute.dat -VB bal $ -663.15 CR 19.00 T -5.00 Assets $ 662.71 CR 43.00 T 5.00 Expenses Telling me I've spent a total of $662.71 in commuting thus far: consisting of 43 Commuter Rail rides, and 5 T rides. The other thing I *really* like about ledger is that it's file is a simple ascii text file. I have over 8 years of financial data across more than 12 different accounts in a total of 4MB. For comparisson, the last time I seriously used GnuCash (2000/2001ish), which was right after they decided to move from plain ascii text to an XML-based file. My Y2000 GnuCash.xac data file, for only the year 2000 weighs in at 1.7M. Ledger is both smaller, more flexible, and suits my needs for the wacky things I like to do better than GnuCash, which, like most graphical applications, traps you into fairly restrictive interface, and takes significantly more time to load up. Please don't take this a slight towards GnuCash. It's not. I think it's a fantastic app if what you require is a GUI like thing that replaces something similar in the Windows world like MSM or Quicken. My requirements are significantly different than most people. My two biggest reasons for preferring ledger are: - I need to be able to simply, quickly enter lots of transactions. A GUI is seldom going to allow me to work at the speed I desire. Ledger allows me to enter data from within emacs, from the command line, via e-mail/procmail/shell-script (admittedly, I've never done the latter, though I've thought about setting such a hook up many times). - I need to be able enter data from multiple locations without waiting for a GUI. I tend to enter data from my laptop and from work. Since I can ssh into my server from both locations and access emacs within my screen session, it's simple to enter my data in one location and not worry about sync'ing things up. Also, being able to run things like perl, sed/awk, and grep on my data files and have it spit out something meaningful is a huge win for me most people won't care about. Also, the fact that ledger has python bindings is another win, given that I'm
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Paul Lussier wrote: Bill McGonigle b...@bfccomputing.com writes: On 02/24/2009 02:55 PM, Paul Lussier wrote: My goal is to track the gasoline usage, not the cost of the gasoline I use. The former doesn't vary much, whereas the latter varies drastically. Can you just enter gallons as dollars? No, because I want to track both my costs and my usage. In Ledger I can simply do this: 08/08 BJ's Wholesale Club Expenses:Auto:Fuel GAL 13.569 @ $ 3.669 Assets:BankAccounts:Checking$ -49.78 Then I can run a report like this to see total gas consumption: $ ledger -f ledger.dat -p 2008 bal fuel GAL 316.516 Expenses:Auto:Fuel GAL 316.516 p...@whozit - /Users/pll/personal/finance/ledger#[949] OK. I'll ask the obvious next question - where did this 'ledger' command come from? --Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Bruce Dawson j...@codemeta.com writes: OK. I'll ask the obvious next question - where did this 'ledger' command come from? Err, apt-get install ledger ? Though I tend to compile from source. It's a John Wiegley production, so it should be available from his website, www.newartisans.com. -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On 02/24/2009 02:55 PM, Paul Lussier wrote: My goal is to track the gasoline usage, not the cost of the gasoline I use. The former doesn't vary much, whereas the latter varies drastically. Can you just enter gallons as dollars? -Bill -- Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 b...@bfccomputing.com Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Paul Lussier p.luss...@comcast.net writes: virgins...@vfemail.net writes: There's a GTK-based (gnome-based glade-based guile-based...) accounting package called Gnucash (www.gnucash.org). My latest current complaint with GnuCash is the lack of support for commodities purchased outside of a commodity exchange. What I want to do is enter my receipts for gas for my car, both for me and my wife, then run a report on some periodic basis comparing gasoline usage. I can't just ask: How much did I spend on gas compared to last year? That is an insufficient question with the volatility in oil prices. I don't purchase gasoline from an exchange either, something GnuCash seems to want me to enter in order to track commodities. Not at all.. It's just a namespace. You can put in whatever string you want. GnuCash just defaults to having various exchanges, but you can type in anything. My goal is to track the gasoline usage, not the cost of the gasoline I use. The former doesn't vary much, whereas the latter varies drastically. This is a simple concept which can be applied to anything which can have a fluctuating currency value. FWIW, 'ledger' makes this fairly simple. And it uses emacs as an interface to boot, which makes it even better in my mind ;) -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warl...@mit.eduPGP key available ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
virgins...@vfemail.net writes: There's a GTK-based (gnome-based glade-based guile-based...) accounting package called Gnucash (www.gnucash.org). My latest current complaint with GnuCash is the lack of support for commodities purchased outside of a commodity exchange. What I want to do is enter my receipts for gas for my car, both for me and my wife, then run a report on some periodic basis comparing gasoline usage. I can't just ask: How much did I spend on gas compared to last year? That is an insufficient question with the volatility in oil prices. I don't purchase gasoline from an exchange either, something GnuCash seems to want me to enter in order to track commodities. My goal is to track the gasoline usage, not the cost of the gasoline I use. The former doesn't vary much, whereas the latter varies drastically. This is a simple concept which can be applied to anything which can have a fluctuating currency value. FWIW, 'ledger' makes this fairly simple. And it uses emacs as an interface to boot, which makes it even better in my mind ;) -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Dan Jenkins d...@rastech.com wrote: I used to be amazed that no-one had developed a common framework that everyone could simply incorporate in their products. They have; it's called ADP, Inc.. ;-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Derek Atkins wrote: Lloyd Kvam pyt...@venix.com writes: NOTE-- The payroll documentation says: GnuCash does not have an integrated payroll system. While you can track payroll expenses in GnuCash, the calculation of taxes and deductions has to be done outside of GnuCash. That's the last piece a small business would seem to need. Doing payroll is harder than it seems. There are pretax and posttax deductions, and then there are all the various taxes that need to be taken out, some from the employee, and some employer-paid. Then of course there's the fact that each locale has its own tax rate, and those change year to year... I think the best we could do in GnuCash is come up with a good payroll framework and then let the actual tax rates and local rules get plugged into the framework. This has been discussed on the gnucash-devel mailing list, and I encourage anyone interested in this topic (or better yet, interested in implementing it!) to join that list and bring it up there. I wrote a payroll system a few decades ago. As I started from a far too simplistic framework, I created something too baroque to be maintainable in the long run. Coming from New Hampshire's fairly simply P/R taxes, I had no idea how complicated taxation could be elsewhere. Being a green software engineer didn't help, of course. I used to be amazed that no-one had developed a common framework that everyone could simply incorporate in their products. I still think it could be done. Now I would envision it as a separate service independent of GnuCash (or whatever application), so those applications would not need to embed the varying rates logic within themselves, just pass some information to the payroll service, which would internally track the pay information, and the application would get back the results. Not that I have any desire to tackle that project ever again. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:41:25 -0500 Derek Atkins warl...@mit.edu wrote: I can't speak to Ubuntu, but www.gnucash.org says: GnuCash is personal and small-business financial-accounting software, I have used GnuCash for several years and have been pleased with it as a means of budgeting and managing a variety of accounts. For a sole proprietor, it will get the job done. That said, I believe the lack of a built in payroll tax system for calculating deductions makes it not particularly easy to use for a business with employees, especially hourly employees. I find it to be stable and have never lost data with it running on my Debian systems. Ed Lawson Ham Callsign: K1VP PGP Key ID: 1591EAD3 PGP Key Fingerprint: 79A1 CDC3 EF3D 7F93 1D28 2D42 58E4 2287 1591 EAD3 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Lloyd Kvam lk...@venix.com writes: Also the package description blurbs focus on Quicken and QIF support so it's not obvious that Gnucash is meant for general business use. The Ubuntu package info says: A personal finance tracking program This is not meant to justify my ignorance, but it does help explain why I did not delve more deeply. I'm looking forward to getting Gnucash up and running. I can't speak to Ubuntu, but www.gnucash.org says: GnuCash is personal and small-business financial-accounting software, freely licensed under the GNU GPL and available for GNU/Linux, BSD, Solaris, Mac OS X and Microsoft Windows. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warl...@mit.eduPGP key available ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Hmmm. Maybe its time to have a presentation on GNUCash? Seems there have been lots of changes since I last looked at it! Are there any volunteers? --Bruce virgins...@vfemail.net wrote: Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:49:38 -0400 From: Bruce Dawson j...@codemeta.com CC: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org How is Gnucash not an accounting system? GNUCash is/was more of a bookkeeping system than an accounting system. Accounting systems usually have something akin to a general ledger and P L, ... and supports a traditional auditing methodology. When I used Gnucash, I made most of my entries with the ledger in general journal mode. It wasn't immediately obvious how to do it, but there were ways to make it look like/behave real books. Much of the code that I contributed (the PL report among it) was intended to bring Gnucash's reports more in line with GAAP. IIRC, it had support for AR/AP back in 2004. (I have vague memories of having used AR/AP reports for homework problems.) But again, it was never really obvious how to access many of these features. /me looks for warlord... Derek Atkins was one of the primary developers of Gnucash, and he used to be subscribed to this list. Maybe he could shed some light on this. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:06:03 -0400 From: Bruce Dawson j...@codemeta.com Hmmm. Maybe its time to have a presentation on GNUCash? Seems there have been lots of changes since I last looked at it! I seem to remember Rob Anderson doing a presentation on Gnucash at one of the SLUG meetings a few years back (for some definition of few). Are there any volunteers? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 17:31 -0500, Lloyd Kvam wrote: On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 21:42 +, virgins...@vfemail.net wrote: Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:45:25 -0500 From: Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org GNUCash is not really an accounting system. Others have listed several.=20 Oh, really?! Now that you mention it, you're right. It's funy how I've contributed code to Gnucash and never noticed that it wasn't an accounting system... *scratches head* How is Gnucash not an accounting system? Well perhaps I have not looked at it recently enough, but it did not support invoicing and accounts receivable the last time I looked. In other words, it was more of a Quicken than a QuickBooks. I'm installing it now. Gnucash looks like it can do the job! There is support for accounts receivable and payables. So Gnucash is more than just personal finance. Thanks for setting me straight. NOTE-- The payroll documentation says: GnuCash does not have an integrated payroll system. While you can track payroll expenses in GnuCash, the calculation of taxes and deductions has to be done outside of GnuCash. That's the last piece a small business would seem to need. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp DLSLUG/GNHLUG library http://dlslug.org/library.html http://www.librarything.com/catalog/dlslug http://www.librarything.com/rsshtml/recent/dlslug http://www.librarything.com/rss/recent/dlslug ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 09:06 -0400, Bruce Dawson wrote: Hmmm. Maybe its time to have a presentation on GNUCash? Seems there have been lots of changes since I last looked at it! Are there any volunteers? I'll attempt the conversion of my books to Gnucash and keep notes. I'll still need to setup a Win/IE platform for payroll, but Gnucash should handle the rest. The migration notes seem to be more focused on moving from Quicken, but I assume I'll figure out a reasonable approach. I'll report back and if folks are interested I'll writeup the details. -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp DLSLUG/GNHLUG library http://dlslug.org/library.html http://www.librarything.com/catalog/dlslug http://www.librarything.com/rsshtml/recent/dlslug http://www.librarything.com/rss/recent/dlslug ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Hi, Lloyd Kvam pyt...@venix.com writes: I've been using accounting software on my old winNT computer, which is just about dead. I was able to close out the year by moving the software to my Linux laptop and using crossover office. However, there are too many glitches to stick with this for the long term. I could not find any adequate business accounting packages for Linux. Intuit offers web based accounting BUT even their web based accounting requires winXP/Vista and IE. If any of you know of an alternative that will work with Linux let me know. What are your requirements for business accounting software? What's your definition of adequate? Any opinions? I use GnuCash for my consulting company, and for my personal books. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warl...@mit.eduPGP key available ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
virgins...@vfemail.net writes: That is, except for the crashes. For reasons only my CPU may ever know, Gnucash decided to crash every ten or so transactions I entered into it. My workaround was to save early and often, but it eventually got to be so annoying that I stopped using Gnucash all together. Current versions may be more stable. The one I was using wasn't. How long ago was this? The version of Gnucash I used had rudimentary support for business functions like vendor/customer accounts, invoicing, etc. But it couldn't automate payroll or payroll taxes. Those still had to be done manually. Again, the version which I was using must now be at least three years old. Wow, yeah, things have definitely changed in three years.. However there is still no payroll automation. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warl...@mit.eduPGP key available ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org writes: GNUCash is not really an accounting system. Others have listed Why do you say this? What makes something an accounting system? -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warl...@mit.eduPGP key available ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
virgins...@vfemail.net writes: When I used Gnucash, I made most of my entries with the ledger in general journal mode. It wasn't immediately obvious how to do it, but there were ways to make it look like/behave real books. Much of the code that I contributed (the PL report among it) was intended to bring Gnucash's reports more in line with GAAP. IIRC, it had support for AR/AP back in 2004. (I have vague memories of having used AR/AP reports for homework problems.) But again, it was never really obvious how to access many of these features. /me looks for warlord... /me pops up Derek Atkins was one of the primary developers of Gnucash, and he used to be subscribed to this list. Maybe he could shed some light on this. I'm still here. Just was offline all weekend so just catching up now (as you'll see from my half-dozen replies to this thread). The business code in GnuCash is like a separate module bolted to the side. There is some integration but it's mostly one-sided. There's a Business menu and all Business functionality derives from there (including making entries into AR and AP). The interface is admittedly still a little klunky, in particular having to go through the whole search functionality to find a customer or vendor.. It would be much better if we had something like a GtkEntry with a proper GtkCompletion, but nobody has donated the code to work on that. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warl...@mit.eduPGP key available ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Lloyd Kvam pyt...@venix.com writes: NOTE-- The payroll documentation says: GnuCash does not have an integrated payroll system. While you can track payroll expenses in GnuCash, the calculation of taxes and deductions has to be done outside of GnuCash. That's the last piece a small business would seem to need. Doing payroll is harder than it seems. There are pretax and posttax deductions, and then there are all the various taxes that need to be taken out, some from the employee, and some employer-paid. Then of course there's the fact that each locale has its own tax rate, and those change year to year... I think the best we could do in GnuCash is come up with a good payroll framework and then let the actual tax rates and local rules get plugged into the framework. This has been discussed on the gnucash-devel mailing list, and I encourage anyone interested in this topic (or better yet, interested in implementing it!) to join that list and bring it up there. Thanks! -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warl...@mit.eduPGP key available ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Lloyd Kvam wrote: On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 09:06 -0400, Bruce Dawson wrote: Hmmm. Maybe its time to have a presentation on GNUCash? Seems there have been lots of changes since I last looked at it! Are there any volunteers? I'll attempt the conversion of my books to Gnucash and keep notes. I'll still need to setup a Win/IE platform for payroll, but Gnucash should handle the rest. The migration notes seem to be more focused on moving from Quicken, but I assume I'll figure out a reasonable approach. Great! I look forward to them! I'll report back and if folks are interested I'll writeup the details. Count me in as being interested! --Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On Sat, 2009-02-14 at 08:18 -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: In summary this is what I would do: 1. If you find a native accounting package that suits your needs, then use it GnuCash does not appear to be adequate for business use. I will check further. 2. If you can run your accounting package under WINE, it should perform better than using a VM. (I was able to run QuickBooks under Crossover Office). Based on the Crossover Office application list, Quickbooks 2004 was the last version that worked. 3. Use a workstation VMM (like VMWare Workstation, Virtualbox, KVM/QEMU, Xen). Most can run Windows NT or Windows Vista. And remember, performance is very much a factor of memory. Unfortunately my laptop CPU flags do not include VMX. I'm about due for a new computer for myself, so that will ultimately solve the virtualization issues. I'd still like to avoid Vista. -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp. 1 Court Street, Suite 378 Lebanon, NH 03766-1358 voice: 603-653-8139 fax:320-210-3409 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On 02/16/2009 08:04 AM, Lloyd Kvam wrote: On Sat, 2009-02-14 at 08:18 -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: . Use a workstation VMM (like VMWare Workstation, Virtualbox, KVM/QEMU, Xen). Most can run Windows NT or Windows Vista. And remember, performance is very much a factor of memory. Unfortunately my laptop CPU flags do not include VMX. I'm about due for a new computer for myself, so that will ultimately solve the virtualization issues. I'd still like to avoid Vista. I did find that Virtualbox performs reasonably well with Windows XP on my non-VMX laptop. GNUCash is not really an accounting system. Others have listed several. But, one option is to try to run your legacy system under WINE or Crossover Office. Moving from one accounting package to another is always a pain. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 08:45 -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: But, one option is to try to run your legacy system under WINE or Crossover Office. Moving from one accounting package to another is always a pain. I managed to close out the year using Crossover Office, but there were too many glitches to stick with that as a long term solution. Bill McGonigle's suggestion of Postbooks looks like a possibility. I have been looking at openerp, but it seems too complicated for my modest operation. -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp. 1 Court Street, Suite 378 Lebanon, NH 03766-1358 voice: 603-653-8139 fax:320-210-3409 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On 02/16/2009 09:12 AM, Lloyd Kvam wrote: On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 08:45 -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: But, one option is to try to run your legacy system under WINE or Crossover Office. Moving from one accounting package to another is always a pain. I managed to close out the year using Crossover Office, but there were too many glitches to stick with that as a long term solution. Bill McGonigle's suggestion of Postbooks looks like a possibility. I have been looking at openerp, but it seems too complicated for my modest operation. Let's hope it works for you. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:45:25 -0500 From: Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org GNUCash is not really an accounting system. Others have listed several.=20 Oh, really?! Now that you mention it, you're right. It's funy how I've contributed code to Gnucash and never noticed that it wasn't an accounting system... *scratches head* How is Gnucash not an accounting system? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 21:42 +, virgins...@vfemail.net wrote: Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:45:25 -0500 From: Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org GNUCash is not really an accounting system. Others have listed several.=20 Oh, really?! Now that you mention it, you're right. It's funy how I've contributed code to Gnucash and never noticed that it wasn't an accounting system... *scratches head* How is Gnucash not an accounting system? Well perhaps I have not looked at it recently enough, but it did not support invoicing and accounts receivable the last time I looked. In other words, it was more of a Quicken than a QuickBooks. I'm installing it now. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp. 1 Court Street, Suite 378 Lebanon, NH 03766-1358 voice: 603-653-8139 fax:320-210-3409 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
virgins...@vfemail.net wrote: Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:45:25 -0500 From: Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org GNUCash is not really an accounting system. Others have listed several.=20 Oh, really?! Now that you mention it, you're right. It's funy how I've contributed code to Gnucash and never noticed that it wasn't an accounting system... *scratches head* How is Gnucash not an accounting system? GNUCash is/was more of a bookkeeping system than an accounting system. Accounting systems usually have something akin to a general ledger and P L, ... and supports a traditional auditing methodology. Although, the whole accounting industry has changed with the advent of the personal computer, so the definition of accounting system has become a bit obscured as a result. --Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:49:38 -0400 From: Bruce Dawson j...@codemeta.com CC: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org How is Gnucash not an accounting system? GNUCash is/was more of a bookkeeping system than an accounting system. Accounting systems usually have something akin to a general ledger and P L, ... and supports a traditional auditing methodology. When I used Gnucash, I made most of my entries with the ledger in general journal mode. It wasn't immediately obvious how to do it, but there were ways to make it look like/behave real books. Much of the code that I contributed (the PL report among it) was intended to bring Gnucash's reports more in line with GAAP. IIRC, it had support for AR/AP back in 2004. (I have vague memories of having used AR/AP reports for homework problems.) But again, it was never really obvious how to access many of these features. /me looks for warlord... Derek Atkins was one of the primary developers of Gnucash, and he used to be subscribed to this list. Maybe he could shed some light on this. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On 02/13/2009 06:29 PM, Lloyd Kvam wrote: I could not find any adequate business accounting packages for Linux. I'm going to be trying out Postbooks once I get my current set of billing out (currently on LedgerSMB, a fork of SQLLedger). -Bill -- Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 b...@bfccomputing.com Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Bill McGonigle b...@bfccomputing.com wrote: On 02/13/2009 06:29 PM, Lloyd Kvam wrote: I could not find any adequate business accounting packages for Linux. I'm going to be trying out Postbooks once I get my current set of billing out (currently on LedgerSMB, a fork of SQLLedger). -Bill Thanks for that Bill. I hadn't heard of Postbooks before. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postbooks the name suggests PostBooks as a logical step of progression for businesses that have outgrown the popular QuickBooks small business accounting product by Intuit. Also for those looking for alternatives to QuickBooks, one product that appears to be very solid is OpenERP (formerly TinyERP) http://www.openerp.com/discover/erp-comparisons.html They apparently compare well to active projects such as Compiere. ~ Greg -- Greg Rundlett Web Developer - Initiative in Innovative Computing http://iic.harvard.edu camb 617-384-5872 nbpt 978-225-8302 m. 978-764-4424 -skype/aim/irc/twitter freephile http://profiles.aim.com/freephile ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
linux accounting software or cheap winxp
I've been using accounting software on my old winNT computer, which is just about dead. I was able to close out the year by moving the software to my Linux laptop and using crossover office. However, there are too many glitches to stick with this for the long term. I could not find any adequate business accounting packages for Linux. Intuit offers web based accounting BUT even their web based accounting requires winXP/Vista and IE. If any of you know of an alternative that will work with Linux let me know. Vista was discarded off my daughter's new laptop. I can run Vista using vmware, but the performance is poor. I'm thinking of getting a winXP netbook. I could move winXP into a vmware server and install a Linux distro on the netbook. Or even get a netbook with a disk drive and split it between winXP and Linux. Simply buying winXP is well over $100 and I don't get much for my money. At least a netbook gives me a useful piece of hardware. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=34-220-441 Any opinions? -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp DLSLUG/GNHLUG library http://dlslug.org/library.html http://www.librarything.com/catalog/dlslug http://www.librarything.com/rsshtml/recent/dlslug http://www.librarything.com/rss/recent/dlslug ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Lloyd Kvam pyt...@venix.com wrote: I could not find any adequate business accounting packages for Linux. In the past, I examined Quasar Accounting from Linux Canada http://www.linuxcanada.com/. The core is GPL. True client/server. Runs on Linux and Windows. It seemed kind of like a QuickBooks clone, except without all the fancy graphics and Accounting 101 help files. From a technical perspective, it appeared very solid. Unfortunately, I know nothing of accounting, so I could not test that aspect (which is, of course, the important aspect). But I would be really interested in hearing about someone who reviewed it from that POV. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Lloyd Kvam wrote: I could not find any adequate business accounting packages for Linux. It's been a couple of years since I evaluated them, but here's a few packages I checked out back then which looked reasonable. Without knowing what depth purpose of accounting software you need, it is hard to advise which is best. In alphabetical order: Appgen AccPac - pricey if I recollect, I think it is Sage now American Business Systems (ABS) GnuCash - Very Basic Open Systems Inc. (OSAS) - this looked best for my application at the time; seemed pretty well-rounded SBT - I believe this is long gone, but I did use an older version under Linux once; it was quite good and source code open years ago SQL Ledger - looked good, but required a lot of work to configure, if I recollect Vigilant for Linux There's a listing of about 300 Linux accounting packages here: http://www.findaccountingsoftware.com/software/browse/serveros/17 The same site lists other operating systems too. http://www.findaccountingsoftware.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
From: Lloyd Kvam pyt...@venix.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:29:27 -0500 I could not find any adequate business accounting packages for Linux. IIRC, this has been discussed previously on this list. Have you tried searching the list archives? I haven't. And I don't remember if I've babbled about Gnucash, yet. So, at the risk of repeating myself... There's a GTK-based (gnome-based glade-based guile-based...) accounting package called Gnucash (www.gnucash.org). I used to use it for my personal accounting and accounting homework while I took accounting classes. It had most of the features that an accountant would look for... and then some. You could specify funds in different currencies, pull exchange rates in from Yahoo, etc. However, it was also missing some functionality that I needed. So, I ended up contributing some code to the project and was happy with it. That is, except for the crashes. For reasons only my CPU may ever know, Gnucash decided to crash every ten or so transactions I entered into it. My workaround was to save early and often, but it eventually got to be so annoying that I stopped using Gnucash all together. Current versions may be more stable. The one I was using wasn't. The version of Gnucash I used had rudimentary support for business functions like vendor/customer accounts, invoicing, etc. But it couldn't automate payroll or payroll taxes. Those still had to be done manually. Again, the version which I was using must now be at least three years old. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:13 PM, virgins...@vfemail.net wrote: From: Lloyd Kvam pyt...@venix.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:29:27 -0500 I could not find any adequate business accounting packages for Linux. There's a GTK-based (gnome-based glade-based guile-based...) accounting package called Gnucash (www.gnucash.org). My wife and I have been using Gnucash at home for the past 2 1/2 years. We're running the version that can be had with apt-get on Ubuntu. We're using this strictly for personal finance purposes. The reason we went with Gnucash is because of the $0 cost. Also, we can run it remotely using X11 on our Mac laptop when it's convenient. Overall, it seems to be somewhat rough around the edges, but it serves our purpose. We started with almost no knowledge of accounting, so we got a short tutorial on accounting from the Gnucash manual (assets, liabilities, income, expenses). I've had some brief exposure to QuickBooks and it seems like they use the same concepts. They have a bunch of reports defined that you can use (transaction report, balance sheet, etc). These do have some options that you can change in the GUI, but we've found that sometimes it's easier to just use a spreadsheet to get exactly what we want. Currently, we're using the manual process of one of us reading out numbers and the other one entering them into a spreadsheet. This would seem inefficient, but we use this as an opportunity to review each line item. If you want to do more advanced customizations of reports or invoices, then you might have to brush up on your Scheme skills and edit the source code of the report. For what it's worth, I think they are trying to target the needs of the business user and many of the new features seem to be geared towards businesses. Also, recently, they've ported it to Windows and are releasing Windows binaries with each release. That is, except for the crashes. For reasons only my CPU may ever know, Gnucash decided to crash every ten or so transactions I entered into it. My workaround was to save early and often, but it eventually got to be so annoying that I stopped using Gnucash all together. Current versions may be more stable. The one I was using wasn't. I think Gnucash has gotten better since you used it. We've gotten in the habit of saving after each transaction because it used to crash more often. I filed a bug report on Ubuntu about one persistant crash and it turned out to be an inconsistancy in one of the libraries that Gnucash was using. That problem was fixed in the next release of Ubuntu. We used to have crashes every other time we used it, but now I can't remember the last time it has crashed (Gnucash 2.2.4 on Ubuntu 8.04). Peter ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
