Re: [Goanet] DEEPAVALI FESTIVAL
Anyone help this organisation in its charity, we have been donating for a number of years but the ashram needs more help than we can give, passing on the details will be of tremendous help to them, pass this on to friends and family. They take in ALL CHILDREN of all faiths (as well as ELDERLY folk who are destitute), amongst other works done in the name God. Dont ask which God, he is the same anywhere everywhere, send the cost of your next meal, that will do if you can't afford more, any amount is a vast amount when you have nothing, in the name of your God. I am currently unwell but hope to make it back by the end of year. Regards John Monteiro --- On Sun, 12/10/08, Dr. S. RAJARAM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Dr. S. RAJARAM [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: DEEPAVALI FESTIVAL Date: Sunday, 12 October, 2008, 2:08 AM Greetings from Sivananda family I am pleased and happy to inform you that our ashram is progressing and developing with the support of many kind hearted people like you by their love and affection and monetary support. As you are aware our ashram ashram caters the needs of near 250 destitute children and around 60 elders. We have an Elementary School and High school and provides the academic education. You will be too glad to know that Dr.Mangalam High School is successfully producing 100% result for the last three consecutive years for not only our inmates but also for poor children in around over 25 villages. In order to provide nursery type of education with English Medium, Swami Sivananda nursery School is functioning with 315 tiny tots.We take care in the Medical wing by Doctor and a qualified nurse on for health and medical. Periodically health camps are being conducted to upkeep the health of the children. The organization has a planed to start a industrial training center with carpentry, masonary, computer application and nursing with a affiliation by the Government of India in next academic year.Upgradation of High School to Higher Secondary School is also one of our aim to get the continuity in the Education. Festivals and functions gives not only joy and jubilation but also creates a sense of belonging particularly among children that too our kids, who are special in nature as they are psychologically effected being parentless. Deepavali is around the corner and we have to prepare our selves to provide two sets of new clothes, crackers, sweets, savouries and oil for bath. You are one among the prominent donor who supports us in all our projects. I am sure this year also your goodself will lend your support by your donation for the forthcoming Deepavali festival. As the time is limited you can online transfer the funds and we can draw the funds in case if you are not particular about the receipts since you are contributing from over seas I can draw the money and use the funds for purchase of new cloths crackers oil for bath sweets and savories If you want to donate the amount I will pass on the account number. Expecting good news from you. Our kids in the Ashram and senior citizens in the Old age home pray for your good health, long life and prosperity. MAY GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. In the service of our tiny tots and the elders SERVICE TO SUFFERING HUMANITY IS SERVICE TO GOD We look forward to your constant support in our welfare projects. Thy humble sevak, DR.S.RAJARAM SIVANANDA SARASWATHI SEVASHRAM. POST BOX NUMBER 8. NO 20 KAMBAR STRET EAST TAMBARAM CHENNAI 600059 INDIA. Phone: +91 44 22391078 or +91 44 22392444 Fax number 22791097 CELL NO 98410 77690 Email: DIRECT E.MAIL I.D [EMAIL PROTECTED] OR OFFICE E.MAIL I.D IS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:/www.buildhope.org or http:www.sivanandagurukul.org CHECK OR DRAFT IN ANY CURRENCY MAY BE FORWARDED IN FAVOR OF SIVANANDA SARASWATHI SEVASHRAM
Re: [Goanet] Unmask yourself...if you have the ....Joe Goa UK
, even a loved one, for the the way in which they live their lives but given a bit more thought, you would do the same, if we all had a camera. Keep it up Joe, Keep it up Ed, and everyone who has any time spare, spend some of it on this forum, also email your local MLA, badger your Priests (of ALL faiths), to contribute something, in written form post / email it to them. ANYTHING to wake up the rest of the Goan people would be useful. Forget Crab Mentality, forget Goans dont like upsetting the Watermelon Cart etc etc.. Just post on Goanet, all your feellings about this, Migrants AND Miners, Politicians Priests (of all faiths, Albert included), Hotels Ho houses. So long its Goan related, and make them stand up and listen / read. John Monteiro -- JoeGoaUK said: Voir (Dubai) ravon xepotam sangta to, sokla deum ani sang mure How can a dog protect it's master by barking from somebody else's house? Save Goa! Save Goa! How? By using remote control from abroad? Sorry, it may work for Laloo but not for Goa -- Ed's Reply:- But people are still shitting and pissing all over Panjim. Your hero Porrikar and all other MLAs think they are Gods once elected. MLAs are elected to serve, not to sit on the codel and dictate to the public. Dubaicar with their remote control can at least remind Porrikars of Goa, that they are dumb. What have YOU done other than post a few nasty pictures and put us off our breakfast. - Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Flotsam and jetsam from India head to Goa
We hear from various posters that we remote controllers (those not resident in Goa, but live abroad), ought to do something constructive by moving back to Goa and doing something about the issues instead of mouthing off. I would love to come back to Goa, if someone will feed, clothe house me and my family. I will dedicate as much time as Rajan all the other posters but exactly where will all my blood sweat tears get me? Will be just another one who will cry moan, complain endlessly about the past politicians, current policians grubby business men bankers, government officials who take bribes or are threatened 'all those migrants' who are the main cause of our woes. Time is not a factor here, the migrants are in Goa to stay, they cannot leave unless the local goverment pay them to go back to where they came from, and keep away from Goa, the NIMBY factor strikes again. Migrants go anywhere, but NOT IN MY BACK YARD. I have said it before, act before its too late. Its now too late to be continually moaning about the already settled migrants the new migrants now, they are in Goa to stay! Nobody has the will to do anything, other than ensure they are a vote-bank, or cheap labour for some companies, you can of course complain about it, more are arriving every day, by train bus, bull-cart leaving their mark wherever they travel. On Goanet, and by emails to various departments, I have asked, suggested, commented, even close to begging some of the posters on this forum to stand up and be counted, no matter where you are, you DONT have to be in Goa only to help Goa, anyone of any colour, creed or social rank can help, just by writing to the MLA's, emailing and bringing to attention of the National Government of India departments there, with information on mis-deeds corruption, local goverment are not doing anything to help the migrants with housing or work, they are sleeping on the pavements, on other bona-fide land belonging to other people. You can stand talk for hours on podiums in conferences, this is water off a duck's back, it does nothing but fire up the listeners, then protests gather momentum with verbal abuse, physical violence. Not at all constructive. Its far too late now to do anything at all about the inward migration, the Indians from ALL the other States have a legal right to come to Goa, or Goans to go to their State, no matter about this, just ensure that those who do come, have an ADDRESS they are staying at, no matter if its a hostel for 10 holding 40, or a house for 4 holding 20, as long as they are have an address. IF no address, then its the local police the local authority with the courts help (all to be uncorrupted..) who are the responsible for moving on any illegal settlers. Sounds easy, but it's not, so where is the blame for this? The remote controllers abroad? The residents of Goa who are legally there? Who will back you or help you? Your neighbours are the first point of call those physcially close to you, and for Rajan who has supplied us with many thousands of photos, for JoeGoaUK, for all who are currently IN Goa to contact the person next door get some groupings together, then people like Rajan who are good at talking the talk, to walk the walk. We remote controllers will do our bit, by badgering more and more, after all we cant physically be there, its frustrating for us, so please no more pilloring those who are trying to help, its dividing us, again. Unite and march forward to your destiny, its in your hands, not mine or other remote controllers in far away lands, get rid of the corruption first, not the migrants, they are legally there, the corrupt politicians are not, they fooled everyone who voted for them. And please, dont harrass those who are abroad, they have the same feeling for Goa, as they did when they lived there, they are just sad to hear, how badly things are going, but are powerless to help, so sometimes by scratching the surface they get spat upon, not nice. John Monteiro Rajan P. Parrikar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Goa has become a magnet for dregs from India and beyond. We have ceded control of our homeland to guttersnipes and criminal elements from all over. - Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Is India a poor country
living well India has its share of corruption, its been there, in much the same way as the Europeans had in abundance only a couple of centuries ago, now with rules governing behaviour, they are all exposed in newspapers, and have to resign, no longer the personal fifedom their ancestors enjoyed. Seems that Indian Goan policians can be named and shamed, but are still enjoying the high life. Who is NOT doing their job, must resign, anyone who is taking from the communal pot must have his hand removed, permanently. Give back to the people what belongs to the people! Get these corrupt people named and shamed, exposed WITH PROOF... and have them resign, or better still, jailed! Then forfeiting their property money they stole, and also any chance to hold office ever again, once a corrupt politician, always a corrupt polician. Dont stop at policians, get the nasty policeman off the street, and into jail himself, no more taking polical sides and being paid extra to baton the demonstrators into submission. All this that happened to Mrs Gandhi, her son around the world to yet another handful of world leaders, corrupt as their predecessors, has not made an ounce of difference to those that follow in their footsteps. The money was trickling out of Goa, now its a flood going one way, and poverty in the other. Shameful, shame on all of us for allowing it, but as a remote controller, beyond my ability to vote or help in any way other than trying to help pass on info. So far, I have NO PROOF of corruption, perhaps a poster or two who may have more knowledge on this subject can bring forth a LIST OF NAMES with THEIR (proven) CRIMES, dates places and so on. Lastly, Its been said Inida has thousands of millionaires, closely followed by thousands of near-millionaires, there are a half a billion in poverty, a large portion on or below the breadline, but what about the average person, the other half a billion of the population, are they happy or are they just putting up with things cause it does not affect their lives, they have a roof over their heads, plenty to eat, have a good family with no health or wealth worries ?? No India is not a poor country, its the minority who have taken the larger chunk of the cake, and wont share it. They need a shake up, and an investigation into their dealings. John Monteiro Anil Desai said: DISHONESTINDUSTRIALISTS, scandalous politicians and corrupt IAS, IRS, IPSofficers have deposited in foreign banks in their illegal personalaccounts a sum of about $ 1500 billion, which have been misappropriatedby them... --- Ed said That is why India is poor.That is why Indians do not want the Rupee to come up to the Level of the French Currency. Indira Gandhi had brought the Rupee to the same level as France. Indians with the help of the CIA and the French Foreign Legion, manipulated Indian Religious fundamentalists (their leader could not sign his own name) and killed Indira by Indian Hands. Now the Indian Rupee is where they want it. Good for Indians with foreign investments? Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance
By its very nature, tolerance is only possible as individual act that you or I can bestow. You cannot force tolerance upon others to accept as a way of life, even for one second, those who prefer not to accept this rule are not necessary intolerant either. Tolerance can be catching.. much like a cold or fever, but not create the heat or the other extreme, cold. By example you can gain much by tolerating certain (non-violent, non-malevolent) acts. Somewhere in-between I suppose, is tolerance. I learned a bit of it from being a husband a father, I had none of it as a child or a friend... Shame really, I may have well found a way to accept EVERYTHING that is written by some posters, but choose not to, oh well its cause I am part of the human condition. It would be nice thought if we had mentors, gurus at an earlier age.. in life's ways.. John Monteiro. Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Of Crabs and Goans
Tsk tsk Gabe I think you meant ...dog in a manger... What you (typo'd) made me wince! John Monteiro - Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: .. when in doubt Google.'Dog in the manager' ? --- Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Of Crabs and Goans
Roland Now you have put the 'cat among the . crabs! I had attempted to follow this from the start, it seemed almost to link up here there, made SOME sense, but gave up hope of ever getting the 'punch line' as it were. I look forward to anyone's reply to your post on this. Bound to get attention from all, this is not a walk in the park, as it were, either walking forward, backwards or side-ways! Good luck. John Monteiro -- Roland Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (TRUNCATED) Long ago, some..must have come up with the story of how Goans are like crabs... I have been questioning the crab story.Now, if one were not in the basket, or one were not a crab, would one not avoid the risk of being pulled down entirely? I seek an answer. Roland. Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] When Baga was 'bridge-less'
Hi Joe Thank you for the picture ( the video of the other side of the Baga Beach), but I wonder if you can help me with a query I have. I remember we were on a beach in the late 1950's, when we were near the sea shore, my mother went out to swim but got entangled in seaweed. This memory came to me a couple of years ago I spoke of this with relatives friends but they were unable to help me. The beach had some small hutments, not like today's beach huts, I am sure the one we were in was made of stone or similar, it was not of wood or covered cloth etc. I remember with my brother (4 years youger than me), my mother my father and uncle ( some other people) we were there for maybe two days on one sunny but very windy day we found ourselves in danger. My mother went out with my father uncle for a swim. The sea seemed so far away, the tide was out because I remember suddenly the water came up to us when we were sitting on the wet beach for quite some time, and within a few seconds, more water and then more until we felt frightened. People came to gather us up my other relatives / or friends of the family at the time, came to take us out in a hurry. My mother almost drowned, some jellly fish or similar AND seaweed trapped her so she could not get out of the sea. She got entangled I remember she was ill for a while afterwards. The memory fades but the fright of what happened brings this to my mind again, today. This was because your video of Baga beach looked low in tide I remember something similar, but much bigger Can you shed any light on where this may be. You have many videos (see them all) and your pictures of sea as well as river but can t get to grips where this may have happened. Are there areas on Goa Beaches where the sea suddenly comes back in without warning, or is this something common, or maybe at certain times of the year, there are places where it is dangerous to be for swimmers. I remember the days were VERY HOT, but the sea was out for such a long, long way at this tide going out. Then a while later it just gushed in so fast! If anyone else can help, I would be really happy to know of this. Thank you John Monteiro -- JoeGoaUk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Goanet] When Baga was 'bridge-less' Baga now has New Bridge http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk1/2618833211/sizes/l/ This is where people used to cross during low tide (?) http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk1/2618832915/sizes/l/ This video captured from the other side of the bridge http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=xVux-m224jg Ealier, Baga had another bridge sort of enclosed bridge. the new one is built in it's place -- Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] : United We Stand
(for general stabs) or Goanet II (for the politics religion, sex other stabs, usually at each other).. But as you may be thinking, this would defeat the object of the exercise, to be TOGETHER, through thick thin...is the mainstay of Goanet. United .. that is just about what its all about, is is not? And if anyone who negatively dissects your post as you expressed, then perhaps they ought to be the first to be condemned to Goanet II, never to return to reality. John Monteiro --- Melinda Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all,I am writing this mail to share the sadness in my heart.Please do not tear it apart ,sentence by sentence ,word by word --Goanet style I am really distressed to read so much of naming ,blaming,and shaming different groups /individuals Melinda Coutinho Powell, _ Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Daily Grook #175
Betcha a Thousand Ruppiah to a Sterling Pound if I came up with something similar with a Catholic slant it would be rejected by the moderator, what's your bet? Anyone comment? Anyone want to bet? John Monteiro - Francis Rodrigues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAILY GROOK #175: RAMA DRAMA by Francis Rodrigues rama consulted da bhagvad gita, before he dated the baby-sita ! Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] portuguese passport
FATHER's false surname of Ullah, you are also au fait about my father, that is all there is to say, really (on this forum). I have NO IDEA about your name, other than your first middle last name is possibly derived from Portuguese as we are on a Goan forum, it could be Galician / Spanish too I guess your family name is originally Portuguese, (perhaps a conversion if you are 100% Goan / PIO etc), I dont know, but I hazard a guess your surname could have been de Dias also, etc etc... None of my business either. Regards John Monteiro Paulo Colaco Dias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (TRUNCATED) John Monteiro, let me tell you that your comparison is most absurd. You are comparing the process of recouping or acquiring Portuguese citizenship with the process of getting a British passport. That comparison does not make sense and it is ridiculous. It is Portuguese Citizenship that takes time to get. Not a Portuguese passport because you can get that in less than 24 hours.I have often corrected Goans in this respect. You should not say you are getting a Portuguese passport. The right term is getting Portuguese Citizenship which is a completely different process. In order to get a Portuguese passport, you need to be a Portuguese citizen first. Just like in order to get a British passport you need to be a British citizen first. Clear now?... I do hope so. BTW, is your name really John on your birth certificate or Joao? :-) I am just surprised that your father being so Portuguese gave you the name of John instead of Joao..Paulo Colaco Dias -- -Original Message- Subject: Re: [Goanet] portuguese passport Its always nice to hear of something positive, and thank you for that, shows that perseverance patience pays off in the end. Well done congratulations to you. Two years does seem an awful long time when you consider in the UK three weeks for a passport is 'a lifetime's wait' for the majority who want to use it only to go on holidays to Costa del Fish Chips. Patience on your part, correct documentation etc have at last paid off for you. John Monteiro Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] portuguese passport
Its always nice to hear of something positive, and thank you for that, shows that perseverance patience pays off in the end. Well done congratulations to you. Two years does seem an awful long time when you consider in the UK three weeks for a passport is 'a lifetime's wait' for the majority who want to use it only to go on holidays to Costa del Fish Chips. Patience on your part, correct documentation etc have at last paid off for you. And the good advice you give about any old documents is a valid point, anything that has an official date stamp, and is a formal document would go a long way to help prove any Goan's case as well as limiting the time window, down to 2 years in your case. Goodness only knows how long some other applicants have waited, or not got any further than the initial application. John Monteiro . M S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have got my papers processed thru the Goa Consulate within 2 years I think if you have an old document which the consulate is asking to curb fraud from indians your process will be quick. rergards, Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Visual Memory
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Tri Continental Film Festival 2008 July 25 - 30, 2008 Goa, India http://www.moviesgoa.org/page/tri_continental/ http://www.moviesgoa.org/tricon/schedule_2008.pdf --- Seems to me you chaps may have found a solution or a way of delaying eventual memory loss, its commonsly said our grey matter tends to be less efficient as we age, and those of us who are nearing or have passed 60 years of (s)age could take this on board. Though you two appear to be mentally as steady as 25 year olds, me, well more than triple this these days at least... Recently as 4 or 5 years ago I could have held my memory any 25 year old with every bit of scrap information from the time we landed at London Airport in 1961 till a few years ago but these last few years have taken their toll on my little grey cells, I seem to forget names, sometimes place names, I will wander mid-sentence or lose the thread of my conversations with friends, family even my customers at my business. Now if that's not a form of creeping alzheimers I dont know what is. The grey matter needs working upon, daily regularly reading, not just for eye exercise but keeping up with current affairs around the world (especially these days in Goa, there is so much going on there, sufficient for anyone keeping away the dreaded memory loss, stay alert fit until at least they reach 100 and beyond). I tried to remember things by association this sometimes works but eventually, like the dreaded house of cards, it only takes a little wind.. I would like to vist this wikipedia site Patrice Riemens recommended to you, please if you will pass it on. John Monteiro - Teotonio R. de Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had known of localised memory. I can remember, for instance, the exact place on note cards and on notebooks where I made my jottings (of archival and other readings) during the past 40 years or soThose interested could read more about it in Tony de Melo's very popular book entitled *Sadhana: A way to God*. Message: From: Tony de Sa Thanks for the information. Patrice Riemens also pointed out the same and pointed me to the wikipedia site for it Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Portuguese nationality
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Tri Continental Film Festival 2008 July 25 - 30, 2008 Goa, India http://www.moviesgoa.org/page/tri_continental/ http://www.moviesgoa.org/tricon/schedule_2008.pdf --- Thanks FN Vivek Although the info I read about the nuonces on Portuguese Nationality, how to obtain it, how it came about, how it was amended and changed (at will) by the various governing bodies through the ages) is a few years old, its as valid now as it ever was. Possibly more useful these days with so many Goans (not only in Goa, but also in UK Portugal Canada etc) who may have access to Portugal but not yet legally. Good luck to one and all, if you need ANY info on this subject try our long time friend on Goanet (also his blog other / many pieces on Goan history, and current news, FN is one of our 'main arteries' whose pulse on Goan Life, past present associated news) is boundless, not to mention borderless.. email him any time, he will have the answer, if he does not have it directly at his finger tips, I can guarantee he will know someone, somewhere who does. [EMAIL PROTECTED] John Monteiro --- Hi John, How does one access the valuable info you are commenting about on the above issue? Regards Vivek Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Portuguese nationality
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 2008 Toronto International Goan Convention Theme: Goan Identity And Networking Today. http://2008goanconvention.com/index.php Mario Miranda Festival, July 24-26, 2008 Old GMC Building http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-July/077732.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Hi NF Wow, that was some read, so much information there, anyone who has questions regarding Portuguese Nationality would no doubt find the answers there. Recommended read. Well worth a visit. John Monteiro -- Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ à¥à¤°à¥à¤¡à¤°à¤¿ ठनà¥à¤° à¥à¤¨à¥à¤¯à¤¾ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://goanvoice.org.uk/supplement/PortugueseNationality.html Regards John Monteiro --- http://www.GOANET.org --- Tri Continental Film Festival 2008 July 25 - 30, 2008 Goa, India http://www.moviesgoa.org/page/tri_continental/ http://www.moviesgoa.org/tricon/schedule_2008.pdf ---
Re: [Goanet] JoeGoaUK's pics on youtube.......... on Goanet
THE OLD MARRIED COUPLE at the MARKET. Thank you Joe, This particular clip of the old married couple (with the husband blind wife, singing for their supper) brought a lump in my throat when you first brought it to our attention last year I think it was, it brings to me feelings of sorrow, feelings of helplessness, feelings to bring tears to my eyes ( succeeding in doing so, again!!), feelings of joy, feelings of love, feelings for my family, feelings for others' feelings!! But above all, feelings of hope, hope for not only these two who have lived their lives on the breadline now in their old age, in poverty, but above all knowing that love indeed conquers everything. Again, I say thank you Joe John Monteiro Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Decoding the Surname
Hi Olga Thank you for the link, I was curious as to the meaning of my surname. During the first year of our marriage my wife Pamela asked me for the meaning of my surname, I had no idea (still whizzing about trying to find out where my dad went all those years ago) so I contacted one these commercial companies that make up heraldic shields, they search your surname supply a heraldic theme to a framed certificate. I got one of these framed certificates some 18 years ago, noting that Monteiro was deemed to mean a HUNTER in the employ of the Monarch, (allegedly), This would mean the PORTUGUESE MONARCHY can be traced back to 5 or 6 centuries when the then monarchs used to hunt with dogs, birds/hawks/falcons on horse-back with other 'hunting tools', such as rods/spears arrows etc. The Monteiro or Hunter was in charge of the hunting animals, hunting equipment arranging the gaming for the Monarch. The areas were very hilly / moutainous so I wondered if there was a mix between Monte (for Hill) and Moneiro (for Hunter), in your listings, or perhaps a combination, or could it be a typo? I saw that Selma's surname (from hubby no doubt) was about right, an Oak Tree. However one of my father's (middle names) Teles meaning Saddle Cloth, was right on the nose, ha ha. Gracious Hunter... aka John (Joao) Monteiro -- Olga Maciel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Meanings of surnames http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MangaloreanCatholics/message/2870 - Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Bridge over trouble community relations
we are lucky. So the time had come to say something to the old codger, unhesitatingly I said What do you mean by THESE PEOPLE.. ?? what PEOPLE are talking about? Is it a WOMAN WITH A CHILD in a pram PEOPLE you talking about or it is something else you mean?... Before I could finish the lady turned and said I am sorry, but I did say thank you very much. meanwhile the husband's eyes widened and I thought his eyeballs were about to fall out. I immediately said to her, This is not your problem, this is HIS problem, you are not to be blamed for doing what comes naturally to you, its THIS man and his attitude,, THIS TYPE OF PEOPLE, this bigot, still loudly very angry (didnt think I had it in me, I was flushed with anger frustration for years of having to accept this type of behaviour hearing my wife children telling me of their being humilated when I was not around came flooding back to me but I took my revenge on all these dozens of people who denegrated shown disdain towards my family, because otheir race or colour, took it out on this man, a racialist and a bigot who thinks he has the support of the whole bus against this Hindu woman, this could have been my childrens' mother, this wife with her child not being protected by anyone, having to be insulted, though she was accepting it as a matter of life belief that this normal behaviour. It made me ashamed to be called a British citizen, ashamed to be called a man, a father AND a husband of a Hindu. The old man stuttered looked away, mumbling to himself, looking acutely embarrased hurt. Too late, I said it, and was not ashamed for doing so. This rebuke from me was possibly the first time anyone has stood up for themselves with this man, he did not expect to be told off for his racialist bigotted remarks, but then how often do any of us say anything? We are either too tired, or could not care, we have been de-sensitised by it all over the years, thinking that its best left alone, dont interfere in case we get into trouble. I could have been thown off the bus, but the driver gave me a small wave a nod from his mirror when I looked up towards him, thinking I was about to be asked to vacate the bus, and have a long walk back. The husband was clearly heading for a in a turmoil, beads of sweat on his forehead showed he was anxious in case there was fight, and looking anxiously towards his wife worried about the child's welfare too. And he could not be blamed for thinking this, any father or husband in this situation would have, but I was not careless, I made sure of my position and that of the people in question, there was no imminent danger to anyone. The rest of the bus, including the young black girl (African) who sat next to me said nothing, they were transfixed with what they were doing. But they heard me, they saw me however said nothing. I thought of the three monkeys... those who see, hear and speak no evil, and wondered if I had a bargain, I got two monkeys out of three here, perhaps next time we will see these monkeys SAY something rather than accept rudeness, racialism bigotry as normal behaviour in this country. Yes there are racialists in England but they are everywhere, we see daily issues in Goa, and how the Goans have (rightly or wrongly) opposed the (inward) immigration from other States of India (naturally) from (outward) migration from countries overseas. But is racialism rife in the UK, I say NO, for the sake of my wife, and my children, my extended family of relatives all over the world, I say no, we are not a nation of racialists, at least not in the majority, there are little pockets of them here there but you have to stand up to them, not with physical violence but by words and deeds. England is only successful because of the migration it has over the centuries absorbed peoples, from ALL nations over the world, and now stands a better country because of it, or in spite of it. Goa is a different case, its a small State, unable to take much more migration, its borders need to be checked, its infrastructure will not be able to stand much migration in the numbers Goa is experiencing. About the size of Mauritius, with similar number of citizens, it can take many hundreds of thousands of tourists every year, but they must leave after their vacation, staying on is not on. England will reach that point soon also, but not just yet, we still have a little more room, but the UK will have to put in strict censures, much as Goa is doing to ensure stability. As for the individual, well that is different story, racialism will be with us to the end of time, its just a way of life for some people, but education is needed, but quickly. John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] 6.42
You just have to smile, there is no place like home Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ à¥à¤°à¥à¤¡à¤°à¤¿ ठनà¥à¤° à¥à¤¨à¥à¤¯à¤¾ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 6.42 pm here, and the baker's almost on time, blowing his horn, despite the HEAVY rain... -- FN * Independent Journalist http://fn.goa-india.org Ph +91-832-2409490 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Goa http://www.linkedin.com/in/fredericknoronha Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Forests of Goa... (Makodd paule amchea ghorar)
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- 2008 International Goan Convention Toronto, Canada http://www.2008goanconvention.com --- Hi Frankie I have been posting on this forum for about a year and a half now, and in that time I have read ( sometimes replied) to many distressed Goans who have put their views forward regarding the illegal ( the legal) land development ore mining in Goa, the migrants from Russia, Israel European countries buying houses businesses in parts of Goa, inward migration from other States within India as well as harsh words against fellow Goans for selling up land their houses rented out to 'foreigners'... In fact the list is endless when it comes to gripping about Goan behaviour not to mention those outsiders who have been taking advantage of Goa (inward outward migration, whether housed or not), the Goan police for their taking sides in disputes and acting on behalf of the people with money, the Goan politicians who are paid for their work but want more money, however its produced, the Goan businessmen the middlemen in various official capacities who have their palms greased for every stamp they use on official papers, and the slow process of officialdom You are rightly concerned when you express distressingly that Goa is being over-developed. There are many who say its inevitable, it is progress ought to be accepted with grace. Its of course easy to say, but difficult to understand how one's own country / state / neighbourhood can be decimated without so much as a backward glance. The neighbour who sells to the highest bidder, is not to blame.. really! Its the buyer who then converts the habitat he has purchased. Its the official who has sanctioned the conversion. You are unhappy you will see many more of these miscarriages, but they are legal. The monkey on your doorstep is there because his habitat has been decimated, he has nowhere to go. In many cities and large towns you will see the 'macaque' but usually in areas where there are derelict old temples or old houses which are no longer habitable, overgrown filled with other creatures, including snakes scorpions, rats insects galore! There are other places where the macaque are highly respected as agents of Hanuman were welcomed in temples were fed by devotees, in much the same way as some Ganesh temples have rats milling around and are fed by devotees, they are considered in much the same way as the cow or any bullock or cattle left wandering the streets, as the cow is a vehicle of the God, other vehicles of the Gods are permitted also, the snake (anand) etc. But for a villager to witness a monkey coming onto his land because the habitat has been diminished beyond acceptance, there is no food for the monkey (its all about food comfort for animals), they will seek out anywhere where there is food and water, comfort within the human habitat if necessary, otherwise, monkeys and all other animals would prefer to be away from humans. I am really sorry to see this happen to you your neighbours, but also feel sorrow for the monkeys who are desperately seeking solace, food water, comfort also. As for the music, well to be honest they probably were frightened, but after a while they will come to accept it as part of their lives, but SHOULD they??? No, they should be left to live in peace, in the forest John Monteiro frank Feds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (TRUNCATED) For the last 35 years I never heard that the monkey came on my house, but now after the constructions in the forest because of the open-air halls the monkey frequently come on my houseFrankie -- Regards John Monteiro
[Goanet] Is devolution the answer for Goa?
Its just a thought but the ways things are going right now, and have been for the past dozen or more years, the Goan way of life is slowly to decline eventually you will not know the difference between any of India's States, except that Goa is the smallest, and the last to join the constitution (putting aside the various inputs from Goanetters regarding Jammu Kashmir). Is devolution the way forward? In the UK, over hundreds of years the 'unity' of the United Kingdom was possible with the intergration of Wales, Scotland Northern Ireland, but as time passed the differences between the four regions was becoming more more obvious local governement was not sufficient to supply the needs of the people of the West (Wales) north (Scotland), also across the Irish Sea to Northern Ireland. Wales have not devolved totally as yet (its not for the want of trying), but Scotland have. Scotland has its own Parliament though still part of the United Kingdom, is able to pass laws control spending charges etc via their own Parliament without having recourse to Westminster. Is it not possible for Goa to go in the same direction? In fact any State which can sustain itself with central government still funding (as England does, it sends millions of pounds to the Scottish Parliament each year, to help them become 'self-governing' as it were). Its not an ideal situation polically but in reality it has worked well for the Scottish people ( those who are not Scottish but live work there). Any comments on this? Would Goa be better off if it devolved from India, but still be part of it, under a revised constitution, not as a separate country, but a separate State of India, perhaps local laws can then be introduced for the betterment of Goa Goans living there, as well as non-Goans who are already resident, living working there, and paying their taxes to the Goan Government rather than central government? Just a thought, any (constructive non-denegrating) comments would be appreciated. We need to find lots of ways forward, this is just one more bit of armour but there may be some chinks in it, so lets iron them out here, perhaps take this forward to the next level is possible. John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] You May Already Be There.
Thanks Roland ! This is the type of story that rings true, albeit a life-style that is abundant in Goa, and yet under threat from the very people now abusing the soil water for the want of money. All this being ruined by greedy politicians, greedy land-grabbing developers illegal ( no doubt some 'legal') greedy ore-mining operators. But I do like the story, its got a nice twist to it. John Monteiro -- Roland Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A boat docked in Majorda. A tourist from Mumbai complimented the Goan fisherman on the quality of his fish.(TRUNCATED)- Moral of the story: Know where you're going. You may already be there. --- Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] A Trip Down Memory Lane
Thank you Rajiv, Its always nice to experience someone else's memories in the way the author has described here. Was this you? A Trip Down Memory Lane was very nice very pleasant for me to read, especially when the author mentioned the two lives of the youth the older man. I like the way that the author put a neat separation between the two people, the 20-year old the 50 year-old but still able to balance his life. We all who love these type of stories memories all balance a the little tear in the corner of our eyes, for the 20-year old who was there all those years ago, and the 50 year old that he is today. Wonderful stuff John Monteiro --- Rajiv Desai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (TRUNCATED) Trip Down Memory Lane Going Home Thirty-five years and two months is a long time to stay away from a place that you hated to leave at all. The thought crossed my mind as I wandered the streets of the old city of Surat, looking for familiar landmarks and for my family home. -. Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Keep Smiling
Edu This is PRINT OFF KEEP. Thank you for that, my little girl has been a bit nervous lately because she is in a play at her Saturday school, its all dancing singing this will be nice to print off put on her pillow. John Monteiro --- [Edu's World] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote (truncated) :-) - KEEP SMILING - :-) If at times you feel you want to cry. And life seems such a trial.Above the clouds theres a bright blue sky - Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Contractor, wife arrested for murdering teenager in Goa
This is a sad, horrific case. You can only summise from what was said by the defendant his 'co-conspirators' that this is actually what happened. Dont we all wish we could turn the clock back wish that the girl had been taken to hospital as soon as she had this accident, if that is what it was? It would have cleared him the four others who are involved, the girl may have survived and these five guys would probably be free now. No doubt the autopsy will confirm everything. Let us hope the coroner takes better care carries out his duties chronologically with better regard than some of the previous cases we have seen, heard been debating on this forum. John Monteiro --- Yogesh Desai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote = (TRUNCATED) Contractor, wife arrested for murdering teenager in Goa On December 15, 2006, Safia suffered burns while cooking Presuming that Safia was dead, Hamsa decided to cut her body with a sickle. As he was cutting, he realised that the girl was alive but still murdered.The court on Thursday remanded prime accused Hamsa to police custody...Mymuna was remanded to judicialcustody..Abdulla (35), Moidu Hajee (60), who helped Hamsa find a maid and P N Gopalkrishnan, ASI, who reportedly tried to cover up the caseGopalkrishnan has already been placed under suspension. --- Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Computer dependency test!
Samir I just read the link you supplied, its very interesting, but now I am in a quandry! I have put on several extra pounds since giving up smoking way back in 1989 have never been able to shift this extra bulge around the middle of my waist. It took 10 million years (the report says) for us to develop into the creatures we are, finding two legs being more efficient, using 75% less energy, also 75% LESS CALORIES too. that is quite a quandry for me! Maybe not! It may be startling to my family, friends and my staff to see me crawling about on all fours, sweating ( swearing about my poor knees the holes in my trouser legs...) Having tried all sorts of diets over the years have had no effect, it could be related to my genes / parentage (oops, I take that back, lets just say genes...) / or even my age now, but over 19 years this has NOT shifted a centimetre! My wife tells me (oops I must be a bit more PC these days, on Goanet anyway, I meant to say my partner) assures me that its my addiction to spicy food (ALL types of spicy except PHALL) my daily doses red wine (limited to 3 glasses per day) is the cause of my diets not being taken seriously, its limited my ability to lose the amounts of calories over a week! I work seven days a week but feel I can probably do my job over a 4-day-week AND lose some of my weight in the bargain, if I could travel on all fours instead! Its tempting now to reduce my weekly work hours, to 40 hour week instead of a 80+ hour, walk on all fours lose the 75% more calories at the same time. Absolute geniues! No doubt there will be usual snide remarks 'emanating' from 'the unholy trinity' regarding my new (tempting but not-very-well-thought-out) lifestyle travel plans to from work, but if I do take it up, I will let you all know (in as fewer words as possible), ha ha Thanks for the link, it was not only informative but quite interesting! And YES, I WAS joking there... but its a thought, perhaps someone. no, didnt think so. John Monteiro -- Samir Kelekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seb writes: Q. How many legs do you have?I googled for how many legs do humans have .http://news.cnet.com/Why-do-humans-walk-on-two-legs-To-save-energy/2100-11395_3-6198273.html..Why do humans walk on two legs? To save energyI thought that was interesting! regards, Samir Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] gated community and vomitting -- in a lighter vein
Eugene You are the oil on troubled waters, that is what you are! If Selma invites any or all of the three main antagonists / protagonists (depending on your viewpoint) for lunch or dinner, I will prepare, cook, dish it up myself AND bring it to the table! I have been cooking for the poor, the middle class the rich for nearly 40 years still running my businesses, seven days per week (oh oh ooopsss perhaps a little too much information.?). John Monteiro --- Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (TRUNCATED)...The discussion on gated community has been so long that perhaps.Did Selma serve ambot-tik (though her writing is unlike the same variety but rather sweet) as well as from the agnostics book of recipes? Don't know if the vomitting was rather belching. But the good doc, should know better, much better than he knows Goa's freedom history. If Selma has bared her family history, she perhaps wanted to show that caste and prejudice does not figure in her lexicon. On the other hand, Cornel has made himself clear than caste also does not figure in his world. In the socio-cultural structure in India caste still prevails...I was once accused by some friends of Churchill Alemao for implying in my writing that Churchill was a fisherfolk when all I wrote was that he was president of the fishing trawlers owners association. So, people will draw different meaningsIt was unfortunately that a lunch meeting spurned out into an academic discussion on what constitutes a gated community. As they say, there's many a slip between cup and lip...I think Selma you should now invite Cornel for dinner, as a special guesture (or guest). Eugene --- Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Reader: From wooden to metal ploughs and more: the Charis of Parra
This is really wonderful to read, thank you so much for bringing this little piece of hidden Goa to us, did I say 'hidden' ?? I meant 'lost' Goa (probably 'hidden' in every area in India too, with the need for ploughs blacksmiths are worth their weight in gold). This is some of the past which is right here in the present day Goa / Inida, that lulls us all. Please please continue to delight us with more stories like this, true real-to-life whether from your own personal memories or someone elses who cannot post here,but would like to share it with us all. So many of us nowadays do not lead rural lives, nor do we witness them first-hand because we are too stuck as we are in such modern surroundings, with running water, toilets that flush, hot AND cold water at our fingertips, no garden and therefore no soil to touch, smell walk upon, we have lost contact with reality, more so those of us no longer residing in Goa. Only little pots of plants with their compost which came from the bogs of Ireland or a handful of dirt from the parkland. It brings reality back to me to read the uncomplaining blacksmith's day of toil, his hard work for very little money, but the grateful thanks of dozens upons dozens fellow men, the ploughmen who ready the soil with their toil, to feed us. Grateful thanks also from me Thank you again, to you the Charis of Parra John Monteiro --- Goanet Reader [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From wooden to metal ploughs and more: the Charis of Parra By Claude Alvares [EMAIL PROTECTED] The rains have commenced. As every Goan knows, this is the time for work in the fields. Ploughs are dragged out. Oxen get extra rations. Women covered in plastic sheets gear up to plant paddy, working ankle deep in water without complaint. Goans revel at the sight of farmers ploughing fields as they pass them in their transport to cities for work... --- Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] SUPERSTITIONS CURES........
Old superstitions cures. I was one of the posters advising Albert to tread carefully when recommending some of his (?) old cures for this that, as one or two of these sounded a bit silly such as the garlic around the neck or hips etc, (no such thing of course because they were 'proven cures' over hundreds of years), but a couple of the others were downright dangerous (drinking potions not proven to be 'cures' may cause people to get ill if not properly supervised). Someone on this forum mentioned the ladies with red chillies, reminded me of one occasion when I was dreadfully ill even though my mother consulted a doctor (father was away 'on business' as usual) the doc could only prescribe some tablets, informing my mother told to increase my temperature by wrapping me up to cure me. One of our 'ayas' I remember said a pot of fire is what they used in their home for htis type of illness, so one was brought in the room got a bit smoky, windows were shut so the coughing started when previously I had no cough at all! After a day or so, my mother reminded that I got gradually worse, but then my mother consulted a neighbour, she was told of a lady who cured one of her friends' children previously with similar symptons. My mother was no slouch, she consulted anyone everyone she knew to ensure her child was not going to worsen. Sometime later, seemed like ages being smoked alive in this room, a lovely middle-aged lady walked in, asked for the pot of fire to be removed, cleared the smoke, closed the windows again, made me sit up, then to stand up, removed ALL my clothes begun rubbing me all my body from neck to feet, all over with chillies. Oh my god, I was burning, burning everywhere! She did not leave a centimetre bare except I remember she left my face head I think the soles of my feet palms of my hands without this concoction which appeared to be just chillies a little water. It was not a paste, more just partly dried chillies with a little water rubbed all over. I had no energy for a few days prior to this CURE BY RED CHILLIES, nor during being SMOKED ALIVE the day before. I was left for what seems like hours with this feeling of being burned alive, but also felt chilly (not a pun) then shivering begun. I was on the way to being cured, it didnt feel that way to me! Next day I was up about like nothing happened, eating, drinking and arguing with my younger brother, as usual... SOME remedies, in the right hands DO work, but I must stress the type of red chilli, dried in certain way, sliced or cut up in strips, etc was the KNOWLEDGE this lady had. She probably saved my life! I DONT KNOW what was wrong with me, nor did my mother, but it was probably some type of FEVER it seems which had lasted too long, that lady may have known exactly what was wrong. I may have caught it from someone else, or by drinking unboiled water, fresh milk from the man who came by with his cow we bought milk from him or whatever way this particular illness is passed on. My fondest of memories of this lady was just that I remember she was a rather large sweaty lady. No doubt handling red chillies every day being in a room with no air, she had little choice in the matter, but the huge beads of sweat on her forehead dripping down to the end of her nose, down her cheeks her talking calmly to me (cant remember what she said) but also some chanting she did whilst rubbing me all over ... was all I could 'remember' of this nightmare, if it was a memory. I did not remember anything else before or after the application of this red chillies, except that I was hungry when I awoke! John Monteiro Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Beggars of today
Beggars Belief I guess, Heh heh, lovely. I enjoyed that one! Thank you John Monteiro - [Edu's World] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Beggars of today A man walks past a beggar every day and gives him Rs.10 and that Continues for a year. Then suddenly the daily donation changes to Rs. 7.50 Well, the beggar thinks, it's still better than nothing... TRUNCATED Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Bigotry on goanet - and Miguel Braganza
Hi Santosh Who mentioned HJS? Not me. John Monteiro --- Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please explain how. Are you sure M. F. Hussain is a postmodern moral relativist who is not a hypocrite? If he believes that Hindu Janajagruti Samiti's opinions are unreasonable, then he is a bigot. I cannot tell who on Goanet is not a bigot according to those dictionary definitions. Cheers, Santosh Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Repeated use of the word Ghanti
When the word Ghanti was used to describe a lovely old migrant woman whose photo was taken, with or without her permission, I objected to the use of the word but was 'inundated with emails' saying that there is nothing wrong with the word Ghanti. The photo posted on this forum at the time, of this careworn old migrant woman was one of RP's thousands over the years that he has posted on this no doubt other forums, he is a great photographer, wonderfully taken so exact...etc etc but it was EXPLAINED to me, ad nausim by several posters (as though you would a child) that the correct usage was used in this case. I did not pursue the matter, it was irrelevant what they had to say, I knew what it meant I knew it was wrong then, and it is wrong now. I suspect it then I continue to suspect the use of the word Ghanti was used in a derogatory sense at the time, and still being used in the same way now, but of course we are to believe that 'no stone was caste with malice' on this forum. Rubbish! Some of us are getting a bit peeved with the handfull of posters who are continually deriding, denegrating others sensibilities by what they think is their right to say anything at any time, to anyone who disagrees with them (na nana na na poke out your tongue), because they come from a higher caste within their own religion (with so many Catholics on this forum it 'beggars belief' the caste system even exists with the Church, but it certainly looks that way to me). We all know better. But sometimes this has to go over our heads or we will find ourselves arguing amongst ourselves. As if !! John Monteiro -- CORNEL DACOSTA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Samir Along with others in the past I have objected strongly to the term 'ghanti' as used on Goanet. As to what the moderators are doing about it is a good question. Wouldn't it be nice if you at least got an acknowledgement from Goanet about this concern? Regards Cornel DaCosta Samir Kelekar wrote: I take severe objections to the repeated use of the word ghanti on Goanet to deride the poor migrants. What are the moderators doing? Ghanti is an utterly derogatory word. Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] I will not be called a liar.
Ed My mother was the product of a mix-(white) race couple, a French JEWESS British PROTESTANT. SHE was the Ullah I was referring to in my post, it was one of my father's little aliases he used when 'on business' as it were. WHAT his business was around the 17 June 1950 is anyone's guess, but I can suppose it was not any different to what he had been up to during WW2 or during the Spanish Civil War, nor when he worked for PIDE. I was incorrect to say I was a hybrid, you are of course correct in your post of how what a hybrid is, I was just in a hurry to answer to a post regarding mixed races, religions etc. So many on this forum are either brown nosing with the highbrow or academic elements here but not looking in the mirror themselves, nor asking about their own parentage. I was just saying, to NOT call people names, nothing more than that. And to prove this I laid bare some of my family's own 'misdeeds' if this is what they were, or if that is what they meant it to be. One reason my mother was BORN in Bombay 7 Sept 1923 was that her parents relationship was out of wedlock, similarly my own mother's relationship with Casimiro Emerito Teles Jordao Rozo Monteiro was was also the same. Its just one instance that proves that if you come from a bastardized hierachy it does not necessarily mean you have to continue the line, nor have to take up your father's profession, neither my younger brother nor I were in the least bit aware of his PIDE activities, and that is thanks to our mother who protected us in our childhood forbade us to ever mention his name or the Portuguese side of the family ever again. I did purposefully marry OUT of my 'race' because I was very unhappy with relationships with WHITE women (though not sure if its correct to say 'out of my race' since EuroAsian is the same 'race'), only our 'colour' / 'creed' / country / locations were different. Otherwise you could not meet two people who suited complimented each other. I the product of the above, and my beautiful wife a Mauritian (Tamil / Hindu), coincided with my beliefs, being of the same religion as my wife, but 2 years BEFORE she was born. She is 17 years my junior would not have made a difference, but it was fantastically coincidental we both have the same religion, the same outlook on life, eat drink the same foods like the same style music, family get-togethers etc. Meanwhile, back on the ranch.. the purpose of my delving so deeply digressing a little is to just say it is not nice for people to denegrate others by calling them names, nor to assume someone is of a 'low caste' (be it the way in which you described my mother, which is wholly incorrect) or to be so highbrow looking down at others, as is clear by your post. Its the same thing, you dont have to SAY it, just IMPLYING it is sufficient to hurt others. John Monteiro. --- edward desilva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi John, To say that my mother is a Chardi but I'm a Sudra, do you think some Goanetters who read it are gone doolally to believe that...I don't know what you are rambling about, Religion is not my bother..according to Bangalee Muslim Community, Ullahs are low caste. If your mother was an Ullah too, than you are a low caste hybrid (does not matter what religion you belong to). Have these anthropology PhD people wasted their time, AGAIN? ED. John Monteiro said: Personally speaking, and this is what I do on this forum, I am a hybrid, with many attachments to the major religions of the world, but have taken for my spiritual comfort, the Hindu faith for the past 42 years. Since I was 16 in fact. But this is MY choice, in parentage, my family, the major figure was my father, albeit an absent one for most of my childhood, his donation to making me was to make me 50% Catholic, but I was brought up 100% Catholic for the first dozen years of my life, due to my mother not having a say in how my education or religious beliefs were to be handled. To add to this melange, yet one of my father's names (on my birth certificate) is Ullah. How about that then? I am also a MUSLIM. Now try and work that one out. Jewish Muslim? Protestant Hindu? Portuguese Catholic tainted with a little conscience? -- Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Bigotry on goanet - and Miguel Braganza
Hi Venantius Oh yes, I read it all the way through, and understood every word believe me. The word hypocrite is up there clear as mud .. it well understood by everyone on this forum. Especially when commenting on other posters' contributions, I include those that do not get through via the moderator, due to preferences on some subjects too close to some agendas hearts ( mindset). John Monteiro Venantius Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi John, Santosh is correct when he says The following definitions ensure that almost everybody is a bigot. Note the word hypocrite. venantius -- Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Why do some find it necessary to vomit in public?
end up either dead, beaten or abused all over again, some may be lucky end up in an Ashram for the Orphans... if they are lucky! Both my brother I married, just to prove that a piece of paper IS security... for the children of the marriage that this cycle of the unweds CAN DOES get broken. I dont personally care about the paper, but my wife does, she definitely would not consider a relationship based only on love, she needed proof of it. And good for her. My children are not taunted at school as my brother I were, my mother's generation those prior to hers were aghast she was shown up in class a bastard child. Those days ARE over, the newer generation comes along now, majority of which have kids of many colours, with many different fathers. So we are to congratulate them for falling in love, having as many children as they want, with all the rights of a house, paid for by the government, (you I - in the UK) rights to have sufficient money to feed cloth their children, sufficient money left over to buy cigarettes get drunk, sufficiently drunk to have more children by the next randy little teen passing by, also drunk. In the town where we live, presently, the teenage preganancies are quite high. The UK has the highest teenage underage pregnancies in Europe, all births, housing, cigarettes and more drink paid for by the government (you I). What a life, all paid for by someone else, no wonder all these teens demand their rights nowadays, its all free! And I always thought with rights came responsiblities. Alas I am too old, an old codger not quite retirement age who gets annoyed with his very high tax bills huge overheads in his business, especially when the taxman demands we pay on time or else! Annoyed at slights to his mental state, when in fact he is just annoyed, or trying to help others not to curse the world for their parents mistakes. Sure I am mad as hell about some issues, but am not rampant about it, I get annoyed by the likes of you jc who say things out of turn, annoyed at being ripped off at every turn, yes sure I am mad as hell, but they are not related in any way to my mental state, I get angry mad as hell about some stuff that is chucked in my life's path, and that of my family. But I am old enough to reallise its part of living our daily lives, we have much to put up with, without being told to shut up not 'vomit in public' when in fact we are trying to help resolve issues, not create them. I was trying to be part of the solution, not the problem. I apologise to everyone on this forum if you think I have gone overboard with my private life, it is to me, to my wife all our close, and extended family, an OPEN BOOK, a life well lived, in all its entirerity, dark corners, bright lights, skeletons pushed out of the cupboards, so maybe you feel more secure by keeping yours well locked up, not wash you linen in public. That's ok cause the majority of people DO that, as a matter of course. Because they are ashamed of their part in creating their skeletons. I wonder what stains some are afraid will not come out in their wash? They know already, that is why they dont wash it in public. And that is their right, and their responsibility to towards those they love cherish, in much the same way as I loved cherished my mother, still do. Also my family who love support everything I do (except sometimes when my youngest daughter is unhappy at the amount she gets for pocket money, and THAT look she gives me, melts my heart to then give her some more.), otherwise I am not afraid to walk in the dark, certainly happy to do the same walk in the light. John Monteiro -- J. Colaco jc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is my belief that John Monteiro has many personal demons which he needs to take care of outside this public forum. I also submit that he is unlikely to have had consent from either his mother or his grand-parents to have their privacy and confidentiality breached on GoaNet. If you have another sibling.you are casting serious aspersions on the character of the very person who looked after you i.e. your motheras well as on her parents. That makes you IMHO an absolutely ungrateful person. Why vomit in public? Unless you have a psychosomatic problem. If you need professional help - go get it. jc --- Regards John Monteiro Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Racism
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- South Asian Film Festival in Goa from Fri (June 27) to Mon (June 30) At Kala Academy, and ESG, Panaji, Goa http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-June/076384.html --- This is really good, thanks again Edward. I will send this to my eldest daughter in Mauritius, she really enjoys some of these little ditties, but I will reserve the sexist ones, she will not appreciate it, at 17 years of age, may start feeling a bit guilty about spending on the credit card.. so may not return it when she gets married John Monteiro --- [Edu's World] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Thought about men
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- South Asian Film Festival in Goa from Fri (June 27) to Mon (June 30) At Kala Academy, and ESG, Panaji, Goa http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-June/076384.html --- Thank you Edward, its nice to have these little anecdotes jokes dotted about in this forum, it lightens the day, at least it did for me, a bit sexist but who cares, it was meant light-heartedly, and to be honest I think a little less PC sometimes goes a long way. John Monteiro -- [Edu's World] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Thought about men --- Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] I will not be called a liar
) in Sept 1923. She was abandoned a few months later, on their return to England. Does that make me a Catholic Protestant Jewish Hindu??? Ha ha, I bloody well hope not, what a mix!! To add to this melange, yet one of my father's names (on my birth certificate) is Ullah. How about that then? I am also a MUSLIM. Now try and work that one out. Jewish Muslim? Protestant Hindu? Portuguese Catholic tainted with a little conscience? God only knows.. !! But so do I. So do you now. John Monteiro Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Montri's Expenses
To add to Tony's Cornel's posts, it may be also adviseable for the department who scrutinises the accounts receipts of the MPs to also delve a little deeper and question where the extra dosh comes from when there are Mining or Development interests .. which some MP's I am led to believe appear to either own, or are directors / etc of these firms. If earned legally, the fine they can own up to it and inform their constituency they have interests in these areas, if not then they ought to be penalised (financially as well as losing their jobs, possibly jail depending on the legality or illegality of the mining whether permission was gained legally or by bribes etc for the development projects being just two areas currently decimating Goa Goan interests). As for UK, when the tabloids or the media in general find that any MP has misbehaved or been indulging a little too much in the trough, they are named and shamed. The leader of the party has to take note, or lose the next election, so the person found to be guilty or associated to anyone or related to anyone who is guilty or found to be guilty, has extended leave to spend more time with his family, in other words, he is sacked. Lesser indulgences by those at the top of the food chain usually get gardening leave, which is out of the public year for a year or two, then return at some point in the future. MPs salaries compared to the Blue Chip companies bosses are a pittance, but to us on the lower rungs of the ladder, its a massive amount, but in reality you have to be public-minded want to do good for your fellow-man/woman to be an MP. Its a thankless job, it does not last long, unless you are really loved by your constituency so they vote you in again and again. But overall, the money they get is not anywhere like the Euro MP's who have been feeding from the trough, not to mention those who are also bringing their family members onto the gravy train! This has been going on since it all began way back when, and it aint gonna change. All the UK old guard who are no longer MPs in the UK or not in the public eye every week or even by the month are chomping their way into obesity, in size of the bank accounts to their waist lines - and there is nothing we can do about it! As Cornel says, its not up to us to advise the Goan government or indeed the Indian Government on how to run its show, but since the Law other institutions were modelled from the Brits and made into India's own system, perhaps it would not hurt if a Parliamentary Scrutiny Committee could be formed to investigate ALL MP's and (especially) local councillors, taking action when the media or individual supplies information on those who are stealing by stealth, as well as those who are raping Goa! And if anyone knows of a committee already formed to do this work, then we ought to ask whether this committee ought to be disbanded allow the Prime Minister to take personal responsibility for ALL the members of the Parliament, in Goa in India in general. John Monteiro CORNEL DACOSTA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tony. I too have been staggered and disgusted at the size of hospiality expenses claimed by Ministers in Goa. But this may not be too different from substantial claims made by UK politicians for themselves while asking the public to economise on things like essential postage for official purposes or not to flush the toilet too often! Fortunately, all claims by politicians in the UK are now being scrutinised thoroughly and their perks reconsidered. This has been much influnced by the 'anger' displayed, particularly in the popular tabloid press. While I do not claim to give people in Goa any advice, I hope this info will be useful there to consider the need for firm scrutiny and reduction in the size of politicians' expense claims. The local daily papers could help greatly in this respect if they do not do so already. Cornel DaCosta --- --- Tony de Sa wrote: The figures given by Lionel Messias on the opulent indulgence of the Ministers by way of their food, drink and air fare bills are a constant source of amazement to me. - Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Reader: Anglo Indians, Cotton Mary ... and the Bombay of those days (by Roland Francis)
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- South Asian Film Festival in Goa from Fri (June 27) to Mon (June 30) At Kala Academy, and ESG, Panaji, Goa http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-June/076384.html --- Thank you Roland, your recollections were fantastic, and so clear I could imagine it all happening in front of my eyes. I got lost in time, it really was nice, thank you again. John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] please my blog on Goa
Dear Goanetters A Lion Roars Please visit this blog of Mr Lionel Messias. An eye-opener indeed! www.freebirdingoa.blogspot.com John Monteiro Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Hotel Inquiry ......
We receive many such requests from Nigeria Kenya. This type of scam originated in 1980's when we received hand-written letters directly to our house, our business also those of friends and neigbours. It must have cost a lot time, money postage costs also. If the scam did not work, this would have dried up immediately, but there are some people who are greedy, those who are are feeble minded who fall into this type of scam / trap. I have noticed Kenyan citizens sending emails, as well as Nigerian citizens, its so much cheaper, they can reach hundreds of thousands of people in a few seconds, no more hand-written letters pretending to be a military officer with access to 30 million pounds, or a lawyer who is handling someone's last will testament, where there is 50 million pounds at stake. Please do not reply to this person, this is a scam. He says he wants to build a hotel in your country but has no idea which country he is sending these emails to, or cannot amend the emails for each email address. Its two things that will aid this scam, having all your ID details (for ID fraud) then your bank details, (for withdrawing all your money). Both never seen again. I sent in a similar sample to Goanet regarding this type of fraud, be careful everyone!! Please excuse me for warning you, its just that some people will reply... not that the majority have not seen through this scam, this is so blatent. John Monteiro Henry Bori [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Friend, I am looking for your cooperation in building a Tourist Hotel in your country. I am sorry if this is not in line with your business.I need an experienced person like you to assist me Now the present government of Mwai Kibaki has intensified efforts at probing Moi's government,which has made it quite impossible for me to claim the funds,With this,goverment officials have turned their backs on usYou are required to provide the following Basic Personal Details as listed below: (1) Name in full--- (2) Address-- (3)Nationality--- (4) Age (5) Occupation- (6)Phone/Fax It will appreciate it...Henry Bori -- Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Enforcement of laws can save hills
ILLEGAL MINING = I have just watched a video which shows illegal mining going on in South Goa. The thing that got to me was that a POLITICIAN is involved in this. He owns the company or is involved in the land, not sure which but he is an uncaring polician who has gone way over the acceptable mark should be thrown out of Parliament if he is representing any constituency. When the manager of the mining company was confronted by the enquiry team at the site, he was told he was illegally mining but he insisted he was legal. He was asked for proof of this. The manager of the mining company then called his 'superiors', afterwards he would not comment further about their activities there, or to confirm that his superiors said (it is illegal operation obviously otherwise he would be smiling grining and say all is fine, this is a legal mine). He turned his back to the camera and said no more. This is out of order, totally. There are dozens of these types of illegal mining going on but NOBODY appears to be able to stop them. I cant understand HOW a politician can blatently be involved in such an activity but still be a representative in Parliament, how can such a man represent his people? Is he a Goan polician or one from another State where he thinks he is safely out of the way, and use the excuse he is mining for the benefit of his constituents? And if this is the excuse, can be confirm he is doing this legally? He is morally politically corrupt, and should be named and shamed. The whole of this mining stuff is quite insufferable, can anyone find a way to access the name of the politician who owns this mine / land so we can shame him here on Goanet please. Also if his adddress phone number (better still, his FAX NUMBER EMAIL ADDRESS) would be nice. We should all send him protest letters and faxes, emails etc, also if we can get any details of the goverment section which deals with gives permission for this type of mining, their address, email postal, fax number email would be wonderful. Time to get all these illegal mines shut down, there are so many so-called 'legal' mines that illegal ones are just taking the p*ss. Soon there will be more illegal than 'legal' ones. Goa cannot continue to be abused at this pace, slow action against these fast-paced miners. Unlike the Hare Tortoise story, the Hare will win if not stopped, and Goa will be the old tortoise, unable to catch up, ruined. There is no winner here, only the corrupt polician, corrupt police, corrupt government officials. NAME THEM SHAME THEM WRITE TO THEM FAX THEM EMAIL THEM WRITE TO THE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS EMAIL THEM FAX THEM before its all too late John Monteiro - Vidyadhar Gadgil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Enforcement of laws can save hills Chief Town Planner Morad Ahmed claimed that the TCP will revoke any licence if it is found that facts have been misrepresented but these illegal constructions come up anyway? Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Talking Photo: This looks like an old Portuguese house
Joe If I didnt know better, I would have thought this WAS a haunted house, but MAYBE also a large boat, at its moorings, but I am not at all sure. Anyone know? John Monteiro - JoeGoaUk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Talking Photo: This looks like an old Portuguese house What is it? Heritage building? Bhoot Bhangla? Haunted House? 1. http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk1/2561205111/sizes/l/ - Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Photos of Porvorim disaster
Dr Desai I very much doubt if Rajan has crossed any line that he has not crossed before, again again. He does this to expose those he thinks are raping Goa, and Goan interests. Rajan has the need to cross lines to show us the wayward dealings of all Goan AND non-Goan developers, policitians, my goodness I think he has not sacrificed his stance so many times over the short time I have been on this forum, that some people would take offence to. You have taken offense, and possibly quite rightly, but this is not the end, nor the begining of the end for Rajan, he has put his whole life on the line by exposing so much corruption disimation of Goan lands, beaches hills, countryside much more, he has taken not only pictures but also written (sometimes even got my heckles up by his version of taking a photo of poor old Ghati Lady), but you have to delve a bit deeper to get to what he is trying to tell us. Beauty is only skin deep but the developers, mining companies and the corrupt policians police who back them up with muscle are ripping the beauty of Goa to expose it sufficiently to pile in the cement in its place. Rajan is exposing these people, ALL of them, this is not about creed or breed, it is I think more to do with stopping all this nonsense, but he refuses to take up any reins to be physically involved in this, his is to contribute by exposing the negative destructive forces currently operating in Goa At least that is my take on Rajan Parrikar. John Monteiro --- anil desai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote = Dear Goanetters, This Rajan Parrikar has turned out to be a complete fraud.. Dr Anil Desai --- Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Rising alcoholism puts Goa on a high!
Alcohol is a deadly killer, not unlike smoking. These 'pastimes' have caused great distress in all families, including my wife's immediate family my immediate family. It has been said that some people who drink smoke to excess (alcoholics daily smokers) are pre-destined to being addicted to certain chemicals, for instance if you take 100 people at random, a certain percentage will be addicted almost immediately to the alcohol, as they do with cigarettes. Of course drugs can be included in this, depending on the type of drug. Some strong drugs will take hold of you, even if you are not predisposed to them. Alcohol however, like cigarettes is a different story. Here in the UK where pubs abound, the culture of alcohol consumption is being looked at by the government. They banned cigarette smoking in public 'confined' spaces (even at bus shelters), in fact anywhere the public gather, and now are looking at alcohol disorder zones for some towns cities where alcohol abuse by the young is way out of control. Some places in England, Wales, Scotland Northern Ireland there are a no-go areas due to excessive drinking in pubs, clubs these branded bars who sell the drinks very cheaply have no conscience about how much someone is being served, as long as they are paying for the drinks, these girls boys end up being sick in the streets, passing out on the pavements and bushes, urinating where they stand, fights occur the police are trying to stem the tide of violence, but all to no avail. We need stricter laws.. In Goa, I am sure you have experienced the drunken Brits who have had too much to drink are a nuisance, not only the noise, but the vomit, urinating and other unsocial habits, but in Goa I guess you also have the added burden that its only the Brits who do this, and then you also have the drugs.. Its a vicious cycle, repeated every Fri Sat here in the UK, the youngsters have nowhere to go, nothing to do and certainly have lots of money to burn. a mere handful out of hundreds of thousands of these 'yobs' ever thinks to save up for their future, for their marriage, buying their first home, And so the next generation of addicted alcoholics will keep the drinks companies happy. John Monteiro -- Goanet News Service [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rising alcoholism..PANJIM, JUNE 7 - Sunita Naik is in her mid-thirties but life ahead is too grim for her. She has the responsibility of raising two children. Her husband drowned in alcoholism, died last year - his body was found in rotten state in the bushes on the outskirts of the village. - Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Two Pebbles - monday-muse (9june08)
Pravin Thank you for that story, I have sent it onto my 17-year old daughter in Mauritius. She studies lives there, and of course at her age, has some boys interested in her, but a sensible girl who will no doubt find the penny dropping when she reads this story of yours. I love these little 'parables', they are not only enjoyable but educational too. John Monteiro - Pravin Sabnis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A farmer owed a huge sum of money to a village moneylender. The ageing moneylender, who fancied the farmer's daughter offered to forgo the farmer's debt if he could marry his daughter. However, the cunning money-lender made it look like a fair deal. He told them that he would put a black and a white pebble into an empty money bag. - Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Anglo-Indians
Victor Thanks for that, its always good to hear all (other) sides, Some coins may have more than 2 sides, certainly this subject has several sides to it. All true of personal experiences. I was only 11 in 1961, so my memories, when they come to the fore, are usually (mostly) of a rose-tinted variety. For a child in Goa in the 1950's my whole childhood, (though partly marred by father's work, which my brother I knew nothing about), was for the most part idyllic. It was a time when you made your own amusements, made great friendships prior to going to boarding school at LHS I loved Goa all things Goan. Now soon-to-be 58 on 17 June, nothing much has changed for me to consider Goans anything other than wonderful people, (generally speaking, not inc the corrupt policitians, bribeable police, developers/destroyers of the land, profit hunters who are decimating parts of Goa as though its their private fifedom). I am talking all-things Goan, not just the bits of my childhood, you have to live the life to appreciate it, remembering things of the past, is a powerful tool. I think back to all the nicer times that I remember. Occasionally I let myself wander down memory lane for a while, only to discover that my eyes well up and I am shedding tears!! Silly, stupid old man that I am. That is because of the happiness I enjoyed as a child, my tears are not of regret or hurt, they are of pleasure, the happy times I had in my childhood, but was never able to thank my mother for it. Though it was a very stressful bad time for my mother, those ten-odd years she spent with me my brother (he was born 1 Nov 1954 in Goa), she was our backbone, the strength of the family shielded us from (all) harm. Yes, also Maria D'Souza was a kind, affectionate lovely woman. I never saw any Anglo-Indian treating any 'pure' Goans (can anyone describe a 'pure' Goan?) with either contempt or in any racist language or in any superior way. But I was child so probably didnt see it. I certainly saw my Portuguese father being a racist (b4st4rd) towards ALL non-Portuguese (inc my mother who was of English/French descent). But it was not just my father, the majority of the Portuguese we were allowed to mix with were this way, I was always uncomfortable in their company. Some of my best friends were Goan.. comes to mind, in fact I dont think I ever had any Portuguese friends, always trying to avoid them either at LHS or when around my paternal father's relatives, male or female, didnt like any of them, they were all too 'superior' certainly were racist, the whole ruddy lot of them. So I can honestly say, All of my friends were Goan, some were of the Catholic faith (as I was), some were of the Hindu faith (as I am now), but friends we were.together! Times have changed, I may have mellowed a bit, gone elsewhere (spiritually) compared to my childhood, but otherwise, never set foot again in Portugal (after a long 8 months in 1958), nor had any contact (until this year) of any of my father's relatives. But whether a Goan is of a melange of different races or creeds, or whether blue / green / brown eyed, this is not an issue, Goans are all ONE tribe, certainly mixed in the majority, but now with pure-bred Indians adding to the flavour of Goa, perhaps a higher percentage of Goan children yet to be born, and their children after them will be a lot purer and closer to the Euro-Asian bloodline than the European mix of Portuguese England, or the rest of the world. Not forgetting the smaller percentages coming in from the Arabic Israeli worlds, the Chinese other oriental, perhaps even from Africa, via Mozambique, Angola.. Its a grand mix, and its Goa! A unique 'pearl of the orient' John Monteiro Victor Rangel-Ribeiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Dear John, My memory goes back a bit farther than yours. If Anglo-Indians were disliked in the years immediately preceding Independence, could it be because Anglo-Indians generally treated us Indians as inferior beings. and personally was exposed daily to Anglo hostility. I also had wonderful Anglo-Indian friends, but they were all of the dark-skinned variety.. There were problems in Goa, too, with the mesticos. Some of them were more Portuguese than the Portuguese themselves; many were outright racists. Things, as you say, have changed. Regards, Victor --- From: JOHN MONTEIRO How times have changed, and for the better. My mother's best friend in 1950's was Maria D'Souza. She was an 'Anglo-Indian' with a fair complexion. She dressed in traditional clothes, sarees were the only clothes I saw her in, never a skirt. Chi-Chi (pronounced CHEE CHEE) was a common derogatory word used to describe anyone
Re: [Goanet] Maria D'Souza
FN Thank you for the info, it would be nice to know if these little remembrances links will one day all fit together, and I will be able to complete this jigsaw puzzle of teh 1950's Goa. Maria D'Souza was not a petite lady, she was 'heavy boned' I would say, quietly spoken but could hold her own, very sympathetic to my mother was always there to help if needed. I have received more emails, from a first cousin in Portugal her niece on several occasions now. They are searching family archives digging where they can to glean more info on my father, CM the other relatives memories are being jogged too (not an easy task I imagine), all the relevant people are deceased, only their children their childrens' children pictures, books etc remain. I await the papers pictures, to add to mine. John Monteiro - From: JOHN MONTEIRO = My mother's best friend in 1950's was Maria D'Souza. She was an Anglo-Indian' with a fair complexion. She dressed in traditional clothes, sarees were the only clothes I saw her in, never a skirt. -- Frederick FN Noronha * Independent Journalist http://fn.goa-india.org * Phone +91-832-2409490 John, the late prominent artist FN Souza's then wives was named Maria D'Souza (if I recall right). Was it the same person? Mrs Maria Aurora Couto (author of 'Goa, A Daughter's Story') has written on Souza's work and would know perhaps. Copying this mail to her too. FN - Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Anglo-Indians
How times have changed, and for the better. My mother's best friend in 1950's was Maria D'Souza. She was an 'Anglo-Indian' with a fair complexion. She dressed in traditional clothes, sarees were the only clothes I saw her in, never a skirt. She was a very modest lady, who would have died before showing her legs in public. She had very long hair, again this was in the traditional style, with appropriate styles for the occasions she was at. I think its wonderful that in Goa there was not the hatred loathing of the 'Anglo-Indian' as it was in other parts of India. Chi-Chi (pronounced CHEE CHEE) was a common derogatory word used to describe anyone who was not of 'pure' Indian blood. The worst time for Anglo-Indians in other parts of India was just before Indian Independence when there were issues about any connection with Britain (pre-1947) afterwards when the 'mixed' race chi-chi were frowned upon by all Indians, advantages were taken of them there was violence against them from the extremists, even their neighbours spat hit them, as if it was their fault that the British invaded their country. At least in Goa (unless there are stories otherwise), I have not heard of anyone who had any problems with the Goan people, after all they were Goan themselves. I miss those days, Maria D'Souza is most probably passed away by now, or she would be around 80 to 85 years old. John Monteiro Ana Maria de souza-Goswami [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Why does everyone think that anglo indians have to be fair. Selma remarked that a dusky friend of hers called herself Anglo-Indian. I lived four years in Bangalore and knew a lot of Anglos. 90% of them were dark, very few were fair. The Anglos asked me whether I was one, because of my very fair complexion, and when I said 'Goan', then of course, 'But you must have some Portuguese blood'. Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami - Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Dual Citizenship
Hi Roland I know for sure that the address of this 'law firm' is located near Lisbon's (very large) prison, in Rua Marquesa de Fronteira. We were visiting relatives in a nearby apartment, arriving from Goa for 8 months, we stayed in this street / rua in 1958 (me aged 8 years, with my mother, my brother aged 4 years) and my father, Casimiro Monteiro (nuf said about him). I doubt this email is a scam, but dont take my word for it, its probably a notary / solicitors / law firm seeking extra work. A cheap way of advertising getting the business they are in, to all Goans, they must have bought addresses from specialist firms who collect them and sell them onto interested parties. If anyone is interested, I would recommend everyone ask them questions about their validity get it confirmed by the Law Society (or similar, in Portugual) before embarking on anything where money might exchange hands, or may be compulsory, or you enter into anything legally binding. At least if there are some Goans reading this who might be eligible, this may be an opportunity for them to take up this offer, sounds like they know their stuff anyway. My brother was born in Goa 1st November 1954, he does not have a birth certificate (never had, we wondered if he was actually registered at all (?), I wonder if he can apply for a search for a birth certificate? Anyone help my brother with this? His name was Fernando (renamed David by mother when we arrived back in the UK in Dec 1961) Roso Monteiro John Monteiro - Roland Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote ' Could any Goanetter please make sense of this email specifically addressed to me alone. I have never expressed an interest in applying for Portuguese nationality either on this forum or in private. Is this an unsolicited communication from a genuine Portuguese law firm or just another internet scam. Thanks, Roland. -- MIGUEL REIS ASSOCIADOS - SOCIEDADE DE ADVOGADOS (PORTUGAL) Rua Marquês de Fronteira, 76 - 5º, 1070-299 Lisboa - Portugal Tel: (+351) 21 385 21 38 Fax: (+351) 21 386 36 63 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Av. D. João IV, 1- R/c, 2070-299 Montijo - Portugal Tel. (+351) 21 231 40 18 - Fax: (+351) 21 231 40 18 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] The builders' binary gambit
Have I just slipped into an alternate dimension? Am I in a coma after drinking dirty water from the public tap? Its like something out of Alice in Wonderland. There I was thinking over the week-end we will get some UNITY here, lets all carry on trying to get someone to take charge of us plebians-on-the-net, thousands of miles away but can be at the side of our leader in a matter of seconds. The leader is in Goa, has the support of 9000 Goanetters () in a campaign for Save Goa... but instead there are mind games being fought out between us, and played with each other, also games of oneupmanship via email-tennis. I have read an enormous amount lately (perhaps I ought to have been more selective) but it has not surprised me to find those who I had considered good material as leaders (resident in Goa, fighting tooth nail every day.) who have in the past, and recently campaigned well, with thousands of us in cyberspace behind them, ready poised with our signatures, protest letters at the ready, ready in fact to contact anyone deemed the next person to lobby, via emails, hard copies through the post, and so on. Alas how wrong could I be. Good luck with the Save Goa campaign to you all, its a shame that you cannot UNITE together, it will all be too late pretty soon, give it one push to persuade the other 8,990 Goanetters to join the campaign of UNITY, one for all and all for one (yes, as in the 3 / 4 Musketeers), I cant see anyone making a positive move getting this off the ground, its too fractured right now, time to heal, time to enable, there is no time to lose though. I am feeling a little run down right now, so will not be posting for a while, will take a look in occasionally, but I guess I shouldn't hold my breath. John Monteiro Rajan P. Parrikar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More irrational bile. Begin Act 5 - enter the purveyor of digital wisdom, pure as the driven snow, the brave dissenter soldiering on, staving off an attempted muffle by the enemies of free speech. Heh heh heh. -- Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Frogs, Dogs and Humans
I would like to add to this debate about Frogs, Dogs, Humans AND mosquitoes. Yes, its true about their abilities to find almost any place where water can be contained, for the mosquito to breed in their thousands millions, within a small amount of time. It is only the female mosquito that bites you, (the male is a vegetarian), she needs large amounts of protein that can be got from human animal blood for the eggs to develop quickly proficiently. She alone is 'guilty' of transferring the parasites that inhabit her stomach to the unwary blood donor. The moment she pierces the skin, the parasites make their way into their new host, where they multiply. The consequences are that the major killer of any human being in Africa (besides the Hippo HIV virus) is the mosquito! We need to keep our little plots of land clear of any debris that may contain water, check where the rain falls, from your house, and into any blocked gullies, barrels, tin cans old tyres. We have a plot of land which we have to keep clear by law twice a year, the land has to be cleared of debris, overgrown bushes remove any dumped rubbish, or be fined by the local council. Is this in England? No! Is this in Goa? No! Its in Mauritius. The goverment took a good hard look at what happened when several thousands of cases of 'chikengunya' were reported a couple of years ago, dozens of elderly young children died, many thousands were bitten from these quite a large percentage suffered from aches and pains in their joints and muscles. My wife two daughters were very lucky to escape with only mild cramps little vomiting. Many still have the symptoms which may last them for the rest of their lives. The tourists fled from Mauritius this would have been a bitter blow to the Government of Mauritius, after so many set-backs in the economy, with loss of jobs in the textile industry, low sugar can harvest, etc, so a way was found, by emergency legislation which gave the local councils the power to fine those who ignored the warnings, but also to ensure the public were aware of the crisis that was about to hit. The mostiks of Mauritius are still there, lower in number but not so fatal, you will never totally obliterate them, that is an impossible task, they have been about for millions of years, so widespread that there is no way of getting rid of them in the world, yet, but the Mauritian mosquitoes do not carry the malaria, denge or other other parasites, and if the Government of Mauritius has anything to do with it, it will stay that way. I would also like to remind everyone reading this that SWIMMING POOLS are another source where the mosquitos lay their eggs. So many owners of swimming pools do not treat the water, some may go away on holiday for a while but forget to get the swimming pool treated with the solutions (its costly, so many do not treat the pools as often as they should), and you can get hundreds of thousands of mosquitoes from these hatcheries! As for frogs, dogs and other animals, in my opinion they are as equally important as any other living creature, but of course if you have the choice of saving just one, it must always be your fellow human being first, but this does not mean you do not put resources to help those less able to help themselves. Other ways of containing animals (and humans) is contraception / sterilisation etc. I dont mean obliglatory sterilisation for humans, that would be insane, we have to rely on common sense see where this leads us, but certainly in (pet) animals (dogs cats especially) should be sterilised or spayed. That goes for any one species that is overcrowding our already overcrowded planet. I dont mean selective breeding programmes, just sensible additions to the family, in the wild that is a different story, they need to breed to survive, just another day, let alone continue the line. John Monteiro Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] The rape of Goa
the credentials! He also has some opponents but its time to forgive and forget whatever nitty gritty thing they fight about, we have plenty of publicists here, but no leaders as such, at least not voted in yet. Vote Vote Vote, any ideas from our Goanet Forum for a leader to being the process? forget who is a communist / maxist (I know there is a difference but lets not go there for now), Hindu, Christian, Muslim and so on. Lets not forget this will be a JOINT EFFORT so no in-fighting about who is better than the other, this is a GROUP thing. Seek out other websites and ask their people to come to Goanet start something. As Rene B also has said others have constantly reminded us, UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL. In other words, no more bickering about this and that, no falling out. There ought to be some form of HOUSE RULES where points are agreed and anyone breaking them or not agreeing to them, in whole cannot join. How this will be conducted or agreed should be one of the many subjects of this constitution... Democratically we could begin an election here on Goanet if the moderators will permit it to begin a new dawn.. Time begin the enabling process.. Rajan, Rajan, Rajan. what say you? Shall we continue with your ongoing campaign but with thousands behind you, at your side and promising to help you in your quest to Save Goa or at the very least stop the Rape of Goa... Call it Save Goa by all means, after all its already begun to head in the right direction and much has been already discussed so far, we just need US all to put our money where our mouths are, and sign up a petition to agree, and agree to disagree but keep to the HOUSE RULES, which will be universally agreed by all who sign up. You see Michael, your sadness is reflected in everyone's sadness here on Goanet, for me though it was 1961 since I last saw Goa in the flesh, so to speak, a young boy of 11yrs old, so the shock for me is greater, I could not understand how this could have gone awry at such a pace! Not only has the population of India doubled since its Independence (1947), Goa's population since liberation (post-1961), less the evacuees emigration of the time, is now getting out of control on a weekly, nay daily basis. Albeit that the percentage rate of growth is 5% less than the rest of India, its the inward migration that is also a great cause for concern. The migrants have nowhere to go, they do not make plans to come and stay in a house, or have any land of their own, they sleep, eat, work (..), do their toilet all in public places. It IS a sad day when you have nowhere to go, after all Goa is the 25th State of India and every Indian has a right to emigrate into any other State of India, but at what cost to the Goan who has lived all his or her life there, his ancestral home is no longer considered sacred to him/her and his/her family. Something is going to give one day, the demands made on the society as a whole will either be accepted they all collapse, accepted as in the other States, or there will be violent outbreaks when the local population realises that they are not only sharing their meals living space with strangers, but that they were not even asked in the first place, just taken. Lets begin by calling Rajan...!! Rajan...!! Rajan...!! Rajan...!! Rajan...!! Rajan...!! Rajan...!! Are you ready to make up some House Rules that we all can agree to, sign up and support you in this campain of yours for ALL Goans others... (...) John Monteiro Michael Ali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just seen the documentary entitled the 'Rape of Goa' Seeing all that concrete together really slammed me in my face. The cutting of hills too saddened me. On my last visit to Goa in January 2007 I saw some of these concrete cages coming up but seeing them all together, one after the other, really makes you realize the great and irreversible destruction .. the thought of selling out to builders have always been shunnedUnfortunately, the present destruction and the rape of the land is solely the due to the greed of a section of Goan people especially the politicians and the bureaucracy. The common man can only protest but really can do very little..Congratulation to Mr. Rajan Parrikar for taking the pains to highlight this destruction of Goa and to the Goan public. I believe that this documentary should get wide publicity and should be shown in every village of Goa by a mobile unit. Michael Ali Karachi, Pakistan - Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Please identify this bird
Hi Joe I think it looks like a white heron, but my 11-year old daughter says its a Great Egret. She tells me she saw a similar picture of this heron-like bird on her classroom wall. Her class discussed different birds their habitats, what they ate, where they ate it and so on. Great Egrets, she tells me hunt for their food IN the water, and swallow their food immediately they catch it. You picture depicts the way the food is caught eaten but the description of the bird, dark / black legs, white feathers, Long neck, long yellow beak. John Monteiro JoeGoaUk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please identify this bird http://youtube.com/watch?v=ip8L0fZyIuw A pic here http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk13/2181303690/sizes/l/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] for Goa NRI related info... http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/GOAN-NRI/ For Goan Video Clips http://youtube.com/joeukgoa or http://is.rediff.com/profilevisitor.php?mem_id=48419 __ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Are Goan Catholic women second class?
This is not only about Goan Catholic Women being second class, it seems to me all women within the framework of the RC Church are not permitted to take up most positions outside cleaning out the pews aisles flower arranging in an RC Church. You may say that someone has to do it, but I say men too can do flower arranging cleaning jobs, why just women? Perhaps 'those men' with such talents would not be accepted within the Church? But that's another subject, but still ought to be discussed. Having said this, women are barred from taking up most of the 'senior' posts in most religions. I guess 'the rules' made some hundreds ./ thousands of years ago had a purpose at the time, but a total bar on women from taking up posts within their own religion ought to be discussed a new perspective brought into the 21st century. Some religions have added a bit, taken away a bit a melange of ideas used to bring in more of the faithful. The Church of England / Protestant ( the Jewish) religion have accepted women as Priests (Rabbis), surely this move may have alienated a few but in the majority it has brought a larger congregation where previously it was dwindling, at least here in the UK. I also see great stands are made by the male dominated Asian subcontinent's religions from north to south, east to west also being stubborn by not permitting women to take up any senior posts (nor minor posts), the majority dont even want to see a woman in an official capacity. I think this has more to do with patriachal power dominance than any barring which ought not to be recognised in any religion. Faith is just that, faith is not meant to barr anyone, whoever they are, from entering into the Church or Temple whether to pray in or to be a Guru or Priest there. Discussion on this would be enabling to all. John Monteiro George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vatican to excommunicate women priests - http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/pope_women_dc Regards, George Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Buy your radio
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- The Rape of Goa - A photo documentary by Rajan P. Parrikar Venue: Menezes Braganza Art Gallery, Panjim, May 21-24, 2008 http://www.parrikar.org/misc/doc-notice.pdf --- This ad of 1954 which FN brought to us reminded me that for 2 or 3 annas a couple of friends myself would hire a bicycle for about an hour or two (yes, this was the late 1950's...). I would somehow manage to 'acquire' one anna from my mother's purse, so I could get a couple of cubes of MILK CHOCOLATE from the big slab in the jar, in the sweetshop AND spend half the day running, riding having great fun with my friends. Sometimes there would be 4 of us, the first one of us (usually the winner of the game we played beforehand), we took it in turns at throwing a stone up in the air with one hand, while the other hand was on the ground. While the stone was up in the air, you had to pick up as many of the other stones as possible with the same hand (we didnt have marbles, that was for the rich kids up the road but we had collected shiny stones to use in the game, I cant remember the name of the game but it was very popular with us), so the lucky chap got the first 15 minutes on the rickity old bicycle, then it was the second winner's turn. Depending on the weather, the others ran beside him (not always running, some days it was just too hot, even to be on the bike, but you know kids, you just cant tell them anything!). Strict on the timing, we gave about 15 minutes or up and down the road and around the houses 4 times, or something like that, but we were very strict on the timing (all of us kids were prone to be rather selfish when its MY turn next...!!). I simply cant think now how we managed to KNOW that 15 minutes were up, none of us had a watch or ways of telling the time, it was done somehow, wish I could remember it!!! How do you keep chocolate from melting in one piece in the heat? Almost impossible so I used one of my cubes as a bribe if I lost the 'stone game' to go FIRST, aha!! Got the first ride, couple of cubes of chocolate for me (me me me, just like boys then and now), lots of fun was had though! When we could not rustle up some cash, there was always the old bike wheels from the cycle shop (no tyres..), we used a stick in the wheel's groove have a race, that was fun too. As was 'footing' just walking about, being nosy in other people's gardens or houses, trying to pick fresh cashew nuts from the tree (that was the best flavour ever, unless we were lucky to find a mango tree heavily laden with ripe fruit.). So much energies were expended, and so much fun was had, everyone was equal, nobody was the 'boss of the gang' in our area which was nice, we all contributed equally tried very hard to keep up our friendships, even though I was from European parents, my Goan (best) friends were from mixed religions which was not an issue to us, nor their parents. How I miss those days John Monteiro FN wrote: Here's an interesting advert I came across in Goan Age, Feb-Mar 1954, which tells of those times:...It is very easy by having a radio, and it is easier still by buying a radio on attractive instalment basis. Only 8 annas per day, meansRs 15 onlu a month...
Re: [Goanet] Arambol, Goa....Worlds famous beaches...
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- The Rape of Goa - A photo documentary by Rajan P. Parrikar Venue: Menezes Braganza Art Gallery, Panjim, May 21-24, 2008 http://www.parrikar.org/misc/doc-notice.pdf --- Lovely pictures, only disliked the plastic chairs on the beach. Plastic chairs are one of my pet hates, not only plastic chairs but most things plastic.. rather sit on a stone or wooden log, if on a beach. But that's just me. Arambol pictures looked very nice, so many different ways at looking at the seashore, beach the sea from so many contributors, delightful (just get those plastic chairs off and put them in a recycling bin...). John Monteiro Pandu Lampiao [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What they do not talk about is a 'little' problem along the walkthere is a tiny looking stream (looks rather broad on google maps) that cuts the beach near the templerather scary crossing as the water is deep and fast flowing. On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Gabe Menezes wrote: India Arambol Beach, Goa
Re: [Goanet] Arambol, Goa....Worlds famous beaches...
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- The Rape of Goa - A photo documentary by Rajan P. Parrikar Venue: Menezes Braganza Art Gallery, Panjim, May 21-24, 2008 http://www.parrikar.org/misc/doc-notice.pdf --- Its always nice to be part of survey of any Top 10 or Top 20, nice of course to see Goa (AND Mauritius) in any of the Top 10 beaches AGAIN and AGAIN, or by way of tourist recommendation to other holidaymakers, AGAIN and AGAIN. This time in the Daily Telegraph here in the UK, but in any media, shows there are places to praise in these countries, and the local goverment is making sure it stays that way. But I am anxiously awaiting the European beaches Top 10 / 20 to see if the UK features at all this year. I am told due to heavy rains, the beaches are contaminated with animal slurry human drain contents mixing in the rivers which flow into the sea making the water contaminated with dangerous bacterium ( dangerous to humans as well as marine life). When its hot balmy, the beaches are safe, but when it rains or there are storms, the beaches are dangerous afterwards, due this contamination. Then we have the PLASTIC debris which is brought onto the beaches by the tourists as well as the tides, bringing all sorts of flotsum getsum John Monteiro --- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Arambol Beach, Goa This stretch of beautiful coastline has managed to avoid the rampant commercialism further down the coast.Gabe Menezes. ---
Re: [Goanet] M.F. Hussein- Delhi High Court observations
.. It is time to let this matter rest, the man is old, tired frightened, so give it a rest, he was misguided, and he knows it, in what he did, admitted to it and even said he would destroy the offending paintings if this is what the law required. Fortunately for him the law did not require it, though some people, including myself suggested that he did, but now I have given up the ghost, as it were, fighting a losing batte. The battle may be over but the war appears to be still going, thanks to you your kind. I did not cast the first stone here, but I have contributed, as have many others, but this tooing frooing has to stop at some point, it is getting us nowhere, perhaps the moderators may see where this is leading, and close the thread to this. This whole debacle is nonsense on stilts! If you wish to jump off the Mandovi bridge I would try to stop you from hurting yourself, oddly enough but if you feel this is your right, then I will not challenge you further, let you jump, even though you have no right to pollute the waters, but then I would not stand by and watch you fall either. I would call for assistance, to save you from yourself and your silly actions. I remember someone saying on this forum, more than once, something like you have a right to swing your arm fist around as much as you like, but your right to do so stops before it comes into contact with my nose/face or words to that effect. I like that saying, it means do and say what you like, I dont mind in the least, if you feel its your right to do so, but if you come into MY airspace, then your so-called rights are null and void, I will react. I reacted to the paintings as I was introduced to them quite late, some a quarter of century too late, but no matter, its all over now, as far as I am concerned, the painter has lost all credibility with me, he said he would destroy the paintings if the law decreed, but the law did not ask or demand him to do this, but as 'a sign of goodwill towards the enemy' as it were, he ought to have donated all or some of his ill-gotten gains to charity for the homeless destitute, of any or all religions. I made a recommendation but not sure if this happened, (come on now, all of you, you know for SURE there was not a ruppee going to this ashram?) or if anyone has contributed one ruppee to this ashram for the Orphans Elderly, but I live in hope. Yes there is hope, even for you.. I pray they continue their good works, in much the same way as Mother Theresa did, she got the recognition she deserved, as do all those who do charitable works, many do not wish to be recognised, others like the Sivananda Sarawathi Sevashram, the director, Dr Rajaram is also a Padma Sri. he took over from his father, who started it all, but I guess its too Hindu or too Indian for the likes of some of the Catholic Goans, where it appears Charity begins only at home.. Good luck in your rights, I can only assume you have earned them by the clever wordings, the sarcasm endless / senseless ways in which you express them, well perhaps you have more rights than others, but I doubt it. As for the posters you mentioned, I agree with you, they do help to keep things in perspective, albeit sometimes hard to swallow, I read them all and also others, including yours! We need to remove the chaff from the wheat be sensible here, we have reached our pinnacle now, time to let it go, continuing in this vein will only cause further discord. Its not always the written word that is the last word said, it is what is in your heart, no words on this Gods earth can put what they heart thinks into words, That is why we have so many poets trying to find the way and painters (like Mr Hussain) also they all think its that easy! Oh by the way, Ostriches do not bury their heads in sand or any other material, nor do they bury any other parts of their body, unless you know better.. John Monteiro --- John Monteiro wrote:Let it go, please. Unlike bonfire night, you dont just light the fuse and walk away, you say a little prayer get on with life, this is what its all about, no more poison on this please. Leave it alone, its been done to death. -- Sandeep wrote (He God only knows why..): Quote truncated # If you do not like a particular painting, this does not mean that you must deny me my right to appreciate it. # If you do not like a book, you cannot not deny me my right to read it. # If you don't like a particular film, don't deny me my right to watch and enjoy it. # If your sentiments are hurt with some of our posts, just don't read
Re: [Goanet] A walk to remember
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- The Rape of Goa - A photo documentary by Rajan P. Parrikar Venue: Menezes Braganza Art Gallery, Panjim, May 21-24, 2008 http://www.parrikar.org/misc/doc-notice.pdf --- A subsidy, a tax incentive or a Heritage Fund of some sort ought to be introduced, if none exists. And it appears that it does not, so why not save some of the old Portuguese/Goan houses for our children and their childrens' children? Its not just for tourists, but everyday living for the everyday Goan, to be proud of, even if there are some (evil) connotations there of the pre-1961 past. Perhaps the Government of India could introduce tax incentives to people who donate to the trust, businessmen make it compulsory for developers land agents who make a certain level of profit over the financial year should put a percentage back into the infrastructure such as this Heritage Fund to help maintain these old houses. Once they are gone, they are gone, its over. It will be all high rise apartments, cemented gated communities, do we really want that for Goa? And after all these old buildings are part of Goa's own heritage, just as are the old temples.. (thought I'd put that in for good measure). John Monteiro --- Goa's Pride www.goa-world.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Portuguese legacy still rests in Goa and for René Mendes, a tour operator, taking tourists to the heritage houses of the lost era is more than just a job - it is a passion... We want to show tourists our experiences in Goa before 1961, and the period of transition where we adopted a new way of life after the departure of the Portuguese. While there may be not many of these structures left, but the few which are conserved still are maintained at the cost of the owners and Mendes feels that the government should offer subsidies to these owners and that more tour operators must take interest in conducting tours by taking tourists to such houses, allowing them to interact and break bread with the family and know more about their history. Few of the houses Mendes suggests are: -
Re: [Goanet] M.F. Hussain- Delhi High Court Observations
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- The Rape of Goa - A photo documentary by Rajan P. Parrikar Venue: Menezes Braganza Art Gallery, Panjim, May 21-24, 2008 http://www.parrikar.org/misc/doc-notice.pdf --- Sachin I agree with you, but you will be waiting a long time to get any sense of our some of the posters who have other agendas themselves. This whole thing has gone across many borders and back again, and again. This thread has worked its way into my brain out of my left ear, circling round into my right ear, and out of my eyes now.. We need now to let up, let them bray! When it gets a bit rough, you will not be alone, I the few left, will be there, right next to you, on this subject. May you continue to enjoy your peace, be patient... you have an abundance of it, thankfully. John Monteiro - Sachin Phadte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..I have accepted that there are such carvings in some Hindu temples.these are not Hindu deities and that such carvings are exception and not not a rule. It is really getting very tiring. Sachin Phadte -
Re: [Goanet] Fishermen, traditional and otherwise
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- The Rape of Goa - A photo documentary by Rajan P. Parrikar Venue: Menezes Braganza Art Gallery, Panjim, May 21-24, 2008 http://www.parrikar.org/misc/doc-notice.pdf --- You are welcome to La Kaz Bourganvilla at Albion, on the west coast of Mauritius anytime (as soon as we have completed the project, sorry, it wont be at least another 2 / 3 years). More info to all Goanetters who fancy a change of scenery when we are ready. Special discounts on our (Indo-Mauritian style en-suite rooms) with Indo-Mauritian Food / trips out / lazy days in / Music Dance nights.. yep you can have it all, Konkani music song too (bring some CD's DVD's of your favourites). You can experience the Maurtian Rums, even the Goan Feni, but no Portuguese Fado! Sorry I draw a line there.. John Monteiro ...Doc, I feel a holiday to Mauritius coming up :-) take care, selma -
Re: [Goanet] Free Puppies, Free Kittens......... or are they?
are giving away lovely little kittens or puppies, make sure they go to a good home, where they will eventually be neutered or spayed, its a better option that what daddy did to our little darlings, bless them. John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Goa has become a Toilet
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- 5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa 16-18, May 2008 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html --- There is no doubt that UK's beaches, or some of them at least are dirty, but this can be said of many tropical beaches too, not just UK or Goa. The tens of millions of tons of rubbish that has been spilled into the seas by ships, barges crooks who dump the city's garbage from China to Japan, from Indonesia to Australia / New Zealand, from USA to all areas of Europe, from Africa South America, the whole world has used the sea as a dumping ground for many years. We are now witnessing the deaths of thousands of sea turtles, sharks and other marine wildlife who either mistake the floating garbage (plastic bags are the worse offenders which the turtles mistake for their favourite food, jellyfish). Now the sea has churned up plastics of all sorts, all now returning after 25 years or so floating about in the sea, brought in by the currents, to the seashore. And we (all nations) still do not clean up after ourselves. There are dedicated people who VOLUNTEER their time energies in collecting these plastic other rubbish that the tide leaves behind. Long gone are the odd coco de mer or the odd piece of wood from a sunken ship. The days of a message in a bottle have gone too, its all dirt plastic, stuff that cannot biodegrade that is hurting the marine life, and of course making it impossible for clean beaches, even in some of the most expensive and idyllic places on earth, find plastic yoghurt containers, plastic cutlery bags on their beaches. John Monteiro -- George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- http://www.GOANET.org --- 5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa 16-18, May 2008 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html --- Goans are too polite to call the UK a toilet http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/855233.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1486664.stm http://environment.uk.msn.com/photos/gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=8025423 Regards, George
Re: [Goanet] M.F. Hussain- Delhi High Court Observations
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- 5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa 16-18, May 2008 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html --- There has been much controversy over this, I am curious to know which Hindu God(s) and / or Goddesses were painted or sculptured in the nude with the intention that they are shown naked in the public forum (inside or outside the temple)? I am aware of nude sculptures paintings of human beings, in various poses, some sexual, others a la mode, on the outside of the temples, especially in Tamil Nadu (Madurai etc), and of course you see some outside many other temples, all over the world. I have not yet seen or heard of any nude human form (portraying human beings, nor Gods or Goddesses) inside a temple. We are all born naked, therefore many sculptures of the Gods Goddesses from ancient times, made from stone, wood other materials, were shown in the naked form as we are, but all the Gods Goddesses were then fully clothed in the eyes of the devotees. I have personally never seen a naked God or Goddess displayed to the devotees in any temple I have ever entered, nor have I heard of any naked deity being displayed in this fashion, with one exception where there were some ancient worshippers of Kali Maa who may have seen her clothes in disarray due to factors relating to her demeanor at the time (too involved to go into great detail here, but she was not displayed naked, nor was it meant to be seen that she was naked). Some Goddesses are shown in full bloom (busty to the point of falling out of their clothes) but were always modestly clothed, no different to her devotee who may be oversized, so this is besides the point, so I would ask anyone on Goanet, or elsewhere if they have actually seen for themselves any Hindu Gods or Goddesses displayed on purpose by the priests of the temple, to show them in the nude, being worshipped in temples (or outside), in the nude, or posing with animals in a sexual way, other than those of Mr Hussain's work. Any photos to confirm this would be gratefully received. John Monteiro --- --- Sachin Phadte wrote: The judgement talks about erotic art in Hindu temples. This point too was also discussed on this forum, and the point made was that the erotic sculptures did not depict gods and goddesses, and that this art is not the general rule. I do not understand how the judge is not able to make thedistinction. This point was repeatedly refuted in this forum. Not only does it appear that nude images are fairly common in ancient Indian temples, almost to the point of being a general rule, but that many such images indeed depict nude Hindu gods and godesses.Cheers, Santosh -
Re: [Goanet] Goa has become a Toilet
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- 5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa 16-18, May 2008 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html --- Eddie My answer to this is NO, this couple who abided by all the rules, purchased a house, renovated it ( the land attached to it, I believe was a garden) but then after EIGHT years were told they would no longer qualify for this 5-year rolling visa, but instead be offered 6-monthly visas their house would be confiscated then auctioned off. My answer to this remains NO, they have not been treated well, at all. But I would also not feel bitter towards the Goans who live work, own property businesses in the UK as this is NOT their fault ask this couple to please refrain from starting anything that may well cause racial tension here. Its the politicians and the law-makers, corrupt or not, that are responsible for this debacle, not the man in the street, (or woman) of any colour, creed (or status)... Whilst writing I would also like to mention that Barnabe has asked that we do not use this subject line, I feel he is offended by the title, I tend to agree with him, perhaps a different subject line ought to be introduced, this one has been done to death, I hope.. John Monteiro Eddie Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We know Goa has become a toilet thanks the photos from Rajan and JoeGoaUk. I would like to know if those who are critical of the expat investment in Goa, and that includes FN, Floriano and Jane Rodrigues, have read Michelle Savage's article. Also, could they please let us know if they feel that she is being treated fairly. A straightforward yes or no please! George Pinto has obviously read the letter but does not answer the question. Nor is he able to recognise rhetoric. To read the Michelle Savage letter see http://oheraldo.in/pagedetails.asp?nid=3950cid=13 - it is the last letter on the page. For the original Goa has become a Toilet post see http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=536195 Is the confiscation of properties by the Goa Government moral? legal? Eddie Fernandes -
Re: [Goanet] Goa has become a Toilet
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- 5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa 16-18, May 2008 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html --- I dont think there is an issue here, there is no way that any Goan is going to lose their right of abode, to work carry on as they have done, unless as you say, they have broken the law. That applies wherever you are, in Goa, or UK or anywhere else in the world. I am more concerned that the backlash of racial tensions the deaths of those who have been highlighted in the press will cause not only lack of tourists from UK other European countries to Goa (hooray say some of you, until the bills need to be paid), but neighbours taking it upon themselves to begin some violence against the Goan next door, for something he or she or the family has nothing whatsoever to do with the case. I again plead with this couple, you may have been ousted from Goa for reasons we are not toally au fait with, only by what you have said, appears to be totally beyond contempt as far as I am concerned, but I do not want to see ANY RACIAL AGGREVATION here in the UK. We are all trying to keep it a multi-cultural as possible, mixed race families by their tens of thousands live in peace and harmoney, including many areas which prefer segregation have managed to live separately without too much tension. Without going into minute details on every case, we have many areas in the UK where Muslims have whole streets areas to themselves, safe in the knowledge that they are with friends, relatives love their community as it is, the same applies to Sikhs, Chinese, yes, even Goan people. My wife is brown-skinned but in the bad past, has been called a Paki (she is not of the Muslim faith but any brown-skinned person is a Paki, which is a detremental word and is as bad as calling an Afro-Caribbean the n word, very disgusting), but when the whites get their hackles up and are treated badly, they react in the only way they can, by racially abusing, and violence against the brown-skinned person. But please, keep a clear mind on this, this case is just probably one of many yet to follow, all very bad for race relations in this (UK) country possibly beyond. It was not very long ago that a young man from Goa, a sailor, was killed in a racially-motivated attack here in the UK. It was a very sad day for the UK when this happened, we were all aghast but also the hurt for the Goan people, not to mention his Uncle, a priest in the USA, his mother father and his relatives in Goa. His murderers were jailed, but to what end? A family lost their son, forever. The parents of the attackers have also lost their children. Everyone is grieving there, we do not need more screams in the middle of the night from mothers fathers, brothers sisters because there are no winners once the attacks begin.. Fight your case but keep the general population out of it, please. Dont tar feather the whole Goan nation (of whichever creed), with this, its not their fault, personally. John Montiero George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michelle Savage's article is wrong on many fronts, for example:.. 1. Goans in the UK have migrated LEGALLY, and cannot be deprived of their property rights. If any Goan in the UK has done anything illegal, they must face justice. It could be a law and order..2. Michelle wants to return 60,000 Goans to India...Regards, George - Michelle Savage, UK...Confiscate properties of UK Goans and deport them We want to say that we wished we had never heard of Goa and had never visited India. The whole experience makes me want to constantly cry, and I have been prescribed anti-depressants, something that never happened in the past. -
Re: [Goanet] Saving Goa.
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- 5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa 16-18, May 2008 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html --- Hi Marshall I have no problem with this, if the Law says NO then its NO. If Goa had the same rule as the Kashmiri government regarding the owning of land, then this would be alright for everyone, then no outsider be they from the next State of next country, or UK or wherever, then we would NOT be in this situation now. But was this about the land? Did they purchase the land itself? I think it was just the property, but this needs to be clarified by the buyers. This was not about the land methinks, I suspect it was the house garden, the money spent buying it and doing it over. This couple DID buy the house. I dispute whether they actually bought the land that went with it. Would this couple please respond, did you actually buy the LAND that went with the house (freehold as they call it in UK), or was it leasehold? etc. In any event, they bought PROPERTY, legally. They now do not have the right to live in it. Perhaps they can now be just like the majority of investors in the State, rent it out to other foreigners, since the alternative is to have it confiscated and sold at auction. Or are they not allowed to do this either? It seems to endless, but as you say, the Kashmiris only can buy land, but can anyone else buy the house that is built on top of it? Rent the house and the land? My what a tangled web John Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jose Colaco wrote: A Goan is NOT allowed to purchase property in Kashmir.Please vide Art 370 of Indian Constitution. It bars a non-Kashmiri from buying land in the State Comment: Non Himachalis too are barred from buying land in Himachal Pradesh. I believe similar restricions prevail in some of the north eastern states like Arunachal Pradesh, Mizoram, etc. Goa too should have passed similar laws but then it has been the legislators who have been instrumental in selling Goa.It is no use blaming the outsiders. Unless there are sellers, there will be no buyers. Marshall Mendonza --
Re: [Goanet] M.F. Hussain- Delhi High Court Observations
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- 5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa 16-18, May 2008 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html --- When Mr Hussain's work was being discussed on this forum last year, I visited the website in question (I had not heard of Mr Hussain but wanted to see for myself what the fuss was all about), I was quite taken aback with it, having gone to the website with a clear objective mind I was left aghast that this man had indeed painted some of the Goddesses in the nude, but not only nude but attempting to copulate also. I felt outraged as this was not something out of the 2nd Century or beyond but work that was done by him in the 20th century, knowing the sensitivities of those of faith, but of course the Atheists those of non-Hindu faiths rallied round Mr Hussain, as they are entitled to do so, but with rights to do so, come responsibilities as far as I could fathom. I questioned Mr Hussain's right to dipict a God or Goddess in such erotic pose, when the devotees of the Hindu faith do not see their Gods or Goddesses inside or outside their temples, in the nude. The closest I have come across any God or religious icon in the nude was the crucified Christ wearing a loin cloth (or kashti), of course one of Buddha's avatar's stripped to the waist (showing his big belly) I had made a point of asking the good folk of Goanet, especially those not of the Hindu persuasion, but asked if the Catholic majority would protest if the crucified Christ was shown in a pose which may have offended them, but my post was rejected (as offensive). I had no answer to my question, because it could be posed on Goanet forum, so I will not repeat my post of last year, but will say only this, everyone has a right do as they feel is right for them, either a painter or sculptor, singer or poet, but whilst doing so, remember please that its well possible if you cross the line, repercussions may follow, whether immediately or in later years, also note your so-called rights of expression come with responsibilities, for your action. Many millions of people have been killed, maimed, families destroyed, whole towns villages purged razed to the ground in the name of religion, the heaviest casualties of the past being the non-Catholics, therefore I say again, if the crucified Christ posed in the same way, this year, last year or several years ago, would anyone feel their faith has been sullied by the painter, sculptor, poet or singer? Of course you would, so it makes no difference if the paintings of Mr Hussain were done 20 years ago or not, he got away with it then, but people's sensitivities are heightened now, so best keep them out of view. I know if I was of Mr Hussain's religion, and I attempted to even portray his God I would expect to have my life taken by my fellow worshippers, let alone portray the main disciple in a painting. But of course use and abuse as you will, in the name of art, as long as its not in my back yard eh? John Monteiro Sachin Phadte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The objections to the paintings of Hussain have been stated many times, even on this forum. The essential point here is not nude paitings, but paintings of Hindu gods and goddesses in nude. Furthermore, in some of the paintings, Hussain as used his so-called artistic freedom to depict the gods and goddesses in erotic position.
Re: [Goanet] Goa has become a Toilet
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- 5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa 16-18, May 2008 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html --- Not the way forward methinks but who cares, WE DO !! Time to let bygones be bygones, as long as you dont hurt someone on purpose, with malice or intent to do harm to their families, them personally, their faith, their land and their house. We s%it on our own doorsteps if we dare, at our peril, the consequences are pretty obvious. No more bile please, we need to find a way to get Goanet going, in the right direction. Let us call a halt to the negativity regarding this thread, there is NO SIT worse than someone else's, ours always smells of roses. John Monteiro --- floriano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- http://www.GOANET.org --- 5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa 16-18, May 2008 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html --- To all those who have contributed to Goa has become a Toilet And all to all Goan Ex-pats and Goa lovers of the world. DO COME AND HAVE A ROYAL 'SHIT' IN GOA. And get paid for it too. rgds floriano goasuraj
Re: [Goanet] M.F. Hussain- Delhi High Court Observations
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- 5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa 16-18, May 2008 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html --- To all Goanetters who have taken time trouble to see what damage we do to each other, in the name of religion, the awful way in which we tend to depict each other's faith, albeit in a negative light, such as Mr Hussain. I would like to suggest that Mr Hussain who must have a heart soul of sorts, somewhere in his body, to now consider giving some of that hard cash he earned so easily, part or all of his ill-gotten gains from the absurd way in which he managed to glean cash for his depictions, perhaps to an ashram for the Orphans Elderly who are the great unwanted of India. This would be a way forward would pay for some of the hurt he has done to those who are deemed as the great unwashed, unwanted discarded in the country. I dont know how much he made over the last 30 years or so since he reached the legal retirement age, perhaps a million rupees (Indian or Mauritian ok), will do for now, or any other currency is acceptable, please send it to the Sivananda Saraswati Sevashram in Chennai. They do not discriminate when they have to feed, water, educate, accommodate all those kids the old when they take them in, they also do not discriminate who gives the money either. Even Mr Hussain would be welcome in their house. Barefoot over Agni would be a way to cleanse himself. Anyone wishing to do good by Mr Hussain, who appears to have no conscience nor recognise what he has done, may contribute annonymously, or if you prefer, or he divulges he ID, then you he will receive a thank you letter / email. Full details of the director, ( he is a Padma Shri also), Dr Rajaram whom I have known for a number of years, to this ashram. Email if you like, write to him if you like, donate please, any sum is welcome, a few spare rupees will do just as nicely you will get just as nice a letter and a thank you from him his Sivanada family to The Sivanada Saraswati Sevashram 20 Kambar Street EAST TAMBARAM Chennai 600 059 Tamil Nadu INDIA Visit the website http:/www.buildhope.org With love to all, no matter what religion, faith or persuasion, in the name of humanity, give generously. John Monteiro - Sachin Phadte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You say that the paintings were done a long time ago but the controversy rose now. ... However, if your argument of a long time ago is to be taken to the logical conclusion, then a crime committed some years ago, but came to light only now, should go unpunished. I hope you are not saying this.
Re: [Goanet] Goa has become a Toilet
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- 5th Annual Konkan Fruit Fest Promenade, D B Bandodkar Road, Panaji, Goa 16-18, May 2008 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-May/073789.html --- It is quite wonderful that new laws can be introduced to protect Goa Goan land from non-Goans or should this be non-PIO. Yes wonderful. Is it so wonderful that these laws can then be back-dated to another time or put out a person or family from their home AFTER they have settled lived in the country, no doubt contributing as did this couple in their retirement years, by doing up an old house also the land surrounding it, only to be told to leave, Goa does not want you? I was approached by a developer some years ago, visited a conference they held at a hotel in Kensington, London. Was absolutely thrilled to see what was happening in Goa, but that was some years ago, at least 15 years ago. My wife me where self-employed business people on good money, we had a young family but thought about our future and wanted to do the same as this couple, buy a place and build a house, with a little land for cultivating own vegetables, have a nice tree or two and flowers etc. But we were very wary of the rights of our children, being girls etc. in Goa. Since my post on this last year, I was advised at the time that if my girls were PIO then there is no issue, there were several routes we could take to ensure their future, and property rights etc. After much ado, here there we noticed the developers were always asking for money upfront, the villas or duplex's etc were not yet built but deposits were being taken, so we did not go ahead. Lucky for us. PIO or otherwise, one of us is NOT a PIO, will the Goan or Indian Government then choose to add a further amendment to the law and prohibit any spouse of a PIO not reside in their house? Goa is getting hysterial with this, I am so very sorry for this couple, who in 8 years have managed to live contribute to Goan society in their retirement but have been made to feel like the Ghattis the Goans abhor... PIO or not, this couple were Westerners sorry, but Goa is for Goans only, no other people, not even from India or other parts of the world are welcome to live there. Do come as tourists, we want your money, but if you decide to stay a bit too long, then we dont want you, we want new, fresh (young.?) things with money, spend spend spend on booze drugs, till you drop, or we will drop you, one way or another. Disgraceful, I cannot believe my eyes and ears these days. Luckily MY PIO spouse is from Mauritius, where I AM welcome, as her spouse, to live indefinitely, in much the same way as she is WELCOME to live in the UK, where I was born, of European parentage, live, work, contribute to the society, as she has done for past 19 years. In Mauritius I know I will not be treated in this way, by the Mauritian Government, nor by the locals, with whom I have a great rapport. I am not the only European welcome in Mauritius, but then I suppose Mauritius has kept its exclusivity, anyone who can rustle up a couple hundred quid can find their way to a hotel for a week. For the same in Mauritius, well you need to rustle up five times that, and that's just the cheap end of the market. Anyone wanting a week in Mauritius can say goodbye to Rs 200,000 (fare, travel, food, hotel, sighseeing). Unless you are like me, married to a Mauritian and have Mauritian relatives who know how to save money, rent a bungalow for the same price as I would have paid in Goa, yes that CHEAP. Maybe its time to draw a line.. if you dont want strangers in your country, put a sign saying so, just as the sign we once saw on Goanet, from a house owner wanting to rent his house FOREIGERS ONLY ... except now it should read Goans only, no Ghattis or Westerners need apply. Welcome to Goa! Oh my goodness, this cant go on. --- Eight years ago, my husband and I decided that we no longer wanted to deal with the stress of working in high pressure jobs . We approached a reputed builder and local advocate, who all told us we were safe to buy property in Goa. To be on the safe side, we asked the advocate to confirm through the Reserve Bank (RBI) that any purchase made by us was legal. We received a letter from the RBI advising that there would be no objection, providing we complied with FEMA. We still have this letter. As we are not great lovers of modern
Re: [Goanet] Survey to name Goa's new patron saint
Would it not be wonderful if all the 9000+ Goanet subcribers could get their opinion heard on this forum, and I mean ALL of them, no matter whether Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Jains, Sikhs, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Heathen, Devil worshippers or whatever spiritual life, if any they lead. Having said this, I wonder if the Patron Saint of Goa should be a man in any case? I see he him etc is already a mindset. Lets discuss the options see what comes up. I think though the majority of the main organised religions would prefer a male dominant. I dont mind (or care) either way, personally. But for 21st Century Goa perhaps the residents of the region should now consider a female or in at the very least consider a joint effort of a duo of Saints. That may well be a way forward. A male AND a female Patron Saint(s) may be what Goa NEEDS, it may not consider that it WANTS this, but show the world how forward thinking you are. So much is said done in the name of the male species insofar as Patron Saints go, but the female is the other half pf the population, so 50% of the those who pray / worship / turn to in times of need to the Patron Saint, would be not of the same sex if it was only a male, though this is of course immaterial when it comes to worship in the Catholic religion. There is some form of hierachy in nearly all organised religions, even the Hindu belief, which is not an organised religion as such has male deities at the top of the pantheon, there are many Goddesses of equal, if not higher standing depending on the regions etc but is it not time for Goa to stand out from all the other States of India?. I like the way the Hindu belief of male/female is intertwined and precedence is given to the God or Goddess in the form the God or Goddess has taken, an avatar for the occasion, in much the same way the Saints, which number in their hundreds in the Catholic faith, also take this form but with one almighty head at the top (if you forgive the unentended pun). Perhaps we could have two Patron Saints of Goa, one male one female, to show the world that equality reigns supreme on earth as it does in heaven... John Monteiro (Spiritual = Catholic upbringing 1950 to 1966, Hindu devotee - 1966 to present day). cedrico dacosta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Taking a cue from TOI-GOA...i strongly suggest that Goanet take up a survey to name Goa's new patron saint... The survey should not be biased, pre-cast and should include a secular reader base... I guess soon Goans will wake up to a new patron saint for GOA...and he will be based not in old Goa but either in Mapusa or Panjim...if someone offers him a home out there Kind regards Cedric da Costa -
Re: [Goanet] An expansion in Goanet's perspective
We either need more of what is happening in Goa today, yesterday and as recently as over the past few years.surely more happens than is permitted to be shown on Goanet, or we need to plead with the moderators to give a little more scope, not so many postings labelled as inappropriate or are the sensitivities of the adult moderators so that we cannot gauge what IS appropriate for us to read? If there is a cuss word or two, or if the poster has been racialist or sexist beyond acceptance, perhaps a form of censorship may be the way forward but I have had several posts not accepted by Goanet when I really could not see where I had offended anyone, other than it was perceived as possibly offensive, but is that not just what people do in conversations, some subjects are taboo (or are they?), so they are not permitted beyond just mentioning them, but no details can be gone into. Some subjects do get to be a bit long in the tooth,but that is probably up to Goanetters to say so. For instance if a subject has been done to death for over a month, or two months, or if it goes on longer than there must be someone who is interested in posting further on the subject. If we have new subscribers, they may well bring up the subject again, as did I several times when first joining but was not aware of the archives some more than 2 to 5 years old, since then many more people have joined but the subjects may not be mentioned again, because it was done to death a year or so ago. But why cant we repeat some advice to the newcomers or allow the newcomers to bring forth a fresh look on an old subject, then the older Goanetters can give sage advice. In the meantime, I will only be taking note of recipes only, unless there are any fresh subjects or old subjects with 21 century resolutions to them.. Having said this, perhaps I may well visit other sites of interest to me, for Goans people of non-PIO but are interested in all things Goan. I may be enlightened further. Its a shame that I feel there is 'no point' anymore in reading any of the posts, I delete 90% these days, when a year ago I read every post, then 6 months ago started reading only my top 10 posters or if there was a newcomer / disguised former reject from Goanet or anyone other than the usual posters, I now have only a Top 5... the others are no longer interesting for me, its the same old, same old having culled 5 of the Top 5, there is very little now for me to do other than find something else, what is happening with Goans in the UK / Canada / USA / other western countries why / who / when / etc is also of interest to me. The Gulf Goans have their sites where their interests lie either with Goans back home or their own segregated life-style, not wanting to participate with the rest of the world. Goa has had a very bad press lately, not just in rapes, drugs, murder etc, this has been going on for decades but it took one courageous mother to make the whole world sit up, watch and listen. How about these recipes then? Looking forward to trying them out. I have a good mind to send in recipes myself to spice up the humdrum lives of our admin staff John Monteiro --- Mario Goveia wrote: But wait. Who would address the question? As you well know, the Goanet Admin are busy with other priorities:-)) -- Dear Mario, I suspect this discussion will not go beyond you and I, but I thought I'd give voice to several goanetters who have candidly admitted in private that they are bored with Goanet. The moderators seem to cull everything remotely OFF TOPIC or sexually explicit (as if the average readership is eight years old), politically incorrect or irrelevant to Goa. Goanet has become devoid of all its former wit, humour and profundit...So I await with bated breath for the arrival of these women on Goanet to spice things up.Selma ---
Re: [Goanet] GOAN WIVES ARE SMART WIVES
You are brilliant at putting a smile on my face, thanks Edward. edwardingoa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Letter from husband ( who is in Dubai) to wife, Dear Sweetheart: I can't send my salary this month, so I am sending 100 kisses. You are my sweetheart Your husband...pedro. His wife (pethrolin) replied back after some days to her husband: Dearest sweetheart, Thanks for your 100 kisses, I am sending the expenses details. 1. The doodhkar agreed on 2 kisses for one month's milk. 2. The electricity man only agreed after 7 kisses. 3. Your bhatkaar is coming every day and taking two or three kisses. Instead of the rent. 4. Rama's shop owner did not accept kisses only, so I have given him Some other items... 5. Other expenses 40 kisses, Please don't worry for me, I have a remaining balance of 35 kisses and I hope I can complete the month using this balance.Shall I plan same way for next months, Please Advise!!! Your Sweet Heart ... --
Re: [Goanet] Wives....Good One
Thanks Edward, that was brilliant. Its so true, ha ha. More, more!! John Monteiro --- edwardingoa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: She becomes mesmerized as she continually reinforces these perceptions: *aisle, altar, hymn. . .* aisle, altar, hymn. . . aisle, altar, hymn. And finally, as she stops beside the groom, the conditioning process is complete. She looks up at him smiling sweetly and keeps saying to herself... *'I'll alter him!* edu
[Goanet] Goa Muslims resent hardline intrusion :: From Deccan Herald/ April 27, 2008
Tabkiq... can anyone enlighten me, does the name have anything to do with, or mean student of religion or similar...? (I dont suppose it means Taleban ? I may be wrongly informed but does this (Taleban / Talibani) not from Afghanstani language or similar meaning, such as student of religion, or reader of religious studies. Political or Religious, perhaps a combination of both, in these regions one means the other, not unlike siamese twins, they cannot be parted. one cannot exist without the other. Is Goa now to cope with this too? Or AM I BLEATING UP THE WRONG TREE? If only I was wrong ( I hope, sincerely that I am BARKING.. up the wrong tree) . But I doubt it.. John Monteiro --- Goa Pradesh Congress Committee vice-president M K Shaikh belongs to an old Muslim Goan family. But moderates like him are becoming increasingly anxious over the recent attempts to introduce a more rigid form of Islamic practice in Goa But a watchful edginess remains over attempts by the Tabliq sect to gain control of the Margao Masjid. The Sunni Jamat controls 17 mosques and the Tabliqs three. Factionalism.
Re: [Goanet] The Death of Goa b Rajan P. Parrikar
CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISM IS ONE THING.. and also its good to see the other side of the coin, thank you Clinton John Monteiro Clinton Vaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Rajan, Yesterday, I was driving by Donna Paula with some friends discussing reasons why they had to unsubscribe from Goanet..A lot of us on Goanet...It's good to be aware of (through your pictures) what happening around Goa...Yesterday morning, I dropped by at the Goa Foundation office to find a silent but hard-working member of the GBA drafting a retort to the court on the Aldea de Goa matter, along with the Goa Foundation.---
Re: [Goanet] Abou ben Adaum (Abou ben Adam) in Konknni
Thank you Venantius, this was certainly a lovely parable and a preamble of many more translating transcribing for us who have no Konkani to guide us, though this tale can be told in any language. John Monteiro - Venantius Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Abou ben Adam (may his tribe increase!) awoke one night from a deep dream of peace, And saw, within the moonlight of his room, Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom, an angel, writing in a book of of gold. Exceeding peace had made Ben Adam bold, And to the Prescence in the room he said: What writest thou? The vision raised its head, And, with a look made of all sweet accord, Answered, The names of those who love the Lord. And is mine one?said Abou, Nay, not so, Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low, But cheerily still, and said, I pray thee, then,Write me as one who loves his fellow men. The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night It came again, with a great awakening light, And showed the names whom love of God had blest, And lo! Ben adam's name led all the rest.Leigh Hunt venantius j pinto
Re: [Goanet] My take on Goa and Goan identity [ Starting points ]
Some folk may say forget the past, some may say no, we need to know even if its too awful to contemplate, we must know. Let us set up a Truth Reconciliation programe to name shame those who lived through these times persecuted us. Some of us need to know for personal reasons, some of us dont want things made public because some of us know or have heard the awful truth, their family was in collaboration with the pre-1961 regime. Some nations have ensured the past is never forgotten, for the damage done to their nation, and have put up plaques named squares gardens in honour of their dead heroes. But for one nation's hero, the same person is a terrorist for another nation. Some nations, but one nation in particular, which came into being at the same time as India's Independence from British rule, the Jewish nation in Israel cry out for recognition of the terrible things done to their peoples whilst not having a homeland of their own, were resident all over the world, were persecuted to point of extinction, so they say dont put the past to one side, in case it repeats itself again in the future. That may have occured a couple of generations ago, but I was born only 3 years after India's Independence and was eleven half years old when PORTUGUESE rule finally came to an end in Goa, but the wars battles that have been fought all over the world have been for the same reason, money. The link is money... think about it, Goa is currently (actually for a very long time from what I gather on Goanet) is fighting over this, but you don't see the Goan on the street making the profit, so the fight goes on. and on and on... Lest we forget.. the atrocities done to us, (us ALL) John Monteiro --- To Goanet - anand virgincar wrote: And the absolutely central point to my arguments that follow is : FORGET WHAT HAPPENED IN GOA PRIOR TO 1961. ---
[Goanet] Gregory Fernandes
At last some positive movement on the murder of this young man has come to light tonight. On the BBC News South Today news programe, it was reported that 3 youths have been charged with Racialy Motivated Murder. Its been a long six months wait, but the Police Crown Prosecution Service have got the right people, albeit not enough of them at this stage. Additional to the 3 charged for the murder, a 14-year old has been arrested for Grevious Bodily Harm and 3 others are out on bail as I write this. Gregory's body was flown home in January, some 3 months after his murder, and nearly 3 further months have passed before this news has come to pass. Let us now see how this case goes, and follow the case to the end. Nothing good will come out of this case except catching the perpertrators of this vile act, mothers fathers will lose their sons to prison, but perhaps justice can now be seen to be done. John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Agente Casimiro Emerito Teles Jordao Monteiro WAS my father.............
Dear Eugene Thank you for the posting, it was nice to read differing stories, majority are coming to me in private emails, but there are two things that jut out for me, one is that he brought his work home used us as his target practice by the very way in which he behaved when he was home, which was thankfully not very often. I say this now, but of course as a child, one is always asking, then stops asking after a while, its easier on the mind. Secondly he did not have to enjoy the job as much as he obviously did, carrying out the atrocities with much gusto, that is equally evil, no matter what, he may have been a man of his time but he was not a nice person, in sense of the word, my mother suffered at his hands, that is enough for any child to put aside any thoughts of a lovely, kind father Best wishes John Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Agente Monteiro name conjures up the same images of the Ranes. Their names were used to frighten children. Hence, these names have achieved immortality, not to add notoriety. Wasn't Rasputin the most feared man in Russien history? However, we cannot put Rasputin and Agente Monteiro in the same league. They differ in both their political and social approaches. Agente Monteiro was following orders and, considering it in the light of Portuguese history, he was doing nothing wrong. Hitler followed his conscience, just as George Bush followed wrong advice and attacked Iraq. Saddam Hussein, another hated man in history, is now dead and gone. But his image of an evil man remains, at least in the minds of the American and those who supported America-led attack into Iraq. I think Agente Monteiro has been mentioned in Konkani novels, possibly of Reginald Fernandes. He was no Robin Hood but he was a good guy to the Portuguese and those Goans who supported Portugal vis-a-vis the Nationalists. I had missed Roland's original post, but the Lavra mentioned is none other than the Darling of the Goan Liberation, Dr. Laura D'Souza, later wife of Prof. Lucio Rodrigues. Laura's son lived/lives in Toronto. I have visited Laura both at her house in Goa, behind the Tourist Hostel, and in Mumbai, in Colaba. The flat was given to her by the Maharashtra government, I think the late Morarji Desai. Agente Monteiro was a tormentor of Goan nationalists. It was an expected role from someone recruited or promoted or assigned the job to harass and create panic among the nationalists. One heard lot of stories from Mumbai-based nationalists, most of them now dead. John should not let the past weigh upon him. Maybe sometimes the sins of our parents visit us. In John's case, his father, if at all Agente Monteiro was, need what was the need of the hour. Goan nationalism was rising and attaining great momemtum. The Portuguese had no way to battle it out, both on the political and social fields. Resorting to force to put pressure on the nationalist movement was one sure way to beat back the challenge. Agente Monteiro was the vehicle. In his role, he became bigger than life itself. Such is the fate that history bestows on people at crucial moments. Eugene Special deal for Yahoo! users friends - No Cost. Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text3.com
Re: [Goanet] Aitaracheo Katkutleo: Kam' Zalem Voiz Melo'
Dear Goanetter reading this post, As a non-speaker or reader of Konkani I feel I am missing out on a lot of Goan chit chat but also the way in which Konkani is spoken often times, if I remember a bit of it from my childhood, albeit half a century ago, there were some meanings words that were difficult to transcribe into English, though some were easier into Portuguese. I am totally baffled now as an aging old man. Konkani is not just a spoken written language, one that is properly recognised in the Indian Constitution etc, but for a man reaching his 60's it would be so very difficult to re-learn it (but I would give it a try if there was a way forward here, by the way - some say its just like learning to ride a bike again, after an accident, do it quickly or you will not have the nerve to do it ever...), so can someone, whatever the subject line, be able to take some time out and translate as much as possible any Konkani posters into English (pretty please?). John Monteiro lino dourado [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kam Zalem, Voiz Melo Sumar 4 vorsanchea porak ghevn, bosint bhitor sorlele ostorek mhaka lagun tras zavnchem nhoi mhonn, hanv boslelea sita velo uttunk kori tednam, tinnem mhonnlem.. Naka, naka. Tras ghevum nakat Mhoje bayek mhagelea paymer bosoitam. Ani tinnem, tigele dhuvek. apnnalea zangddar dovorun, ti sitar bosli. Tednam hanv 19 vorsancho tornatto. Mhagele eka kama khatir hanv Moddganv ghellom. Mhojea khuxik bosleli ostori sobit distali, punn tea von tigelem por. Mhaka pollet boslelem tem. Mhaka porachi apurbay zali. Porak mhagelea kakeant ghetlem ani vicharlem. Baye, tujem nanv kitem? Uncle .., Xhu! Ogi rav. To uncle nhi. Mister. porak fuddem ulovnk di nastanam mhaka uncle nhoi, punn Mister mhonnchem mhonn, dhengxo ghalun porache avoyn porak sanglem. Mister, mhojem nanv Amanda vicharlelea prosnank soroll zap dili ani lhan por fuddem boddboddlem Mister poi, poi. Bhair poi. Xetant redde zogoddtat Amanda! Mister-ak chodd sotai naka. Avoin porak xiddkailem. Asum di. Bhurgem tem. Mhaka porache tras zainant mhonn hanv tika sangtanam, bosicho kondaktor ailo ani tinnem Utorda-Molar ek tikett magoili. Utorda konnagher vhetat kai? Hanvem mhakach vichar kelo. Punn tika vicharunk mhaka puttlem nam. Vo dusre bhoxen, mhaka curiosidade (curiosity) nasli. Hanv ani por khellachea umedir astanam, bos kenna Utorda-Mollar pavli ti pasun mhaka zanniv na zali. Bos, Utorda-Mollar pavtoch porak ghevn ti ostori dhenvli ani amche Igorjiche dixen vetelea rostean, cholunk lagli. Babddem por, fattlean volun ani thambo nastanam mhaka mister, mister mhunnit aslem. Toddea vellachi bhett amchi. Pora koddsun pois zanvchem, mhaka khub dukhlem. Hanv bhavnnik (emotional) zalom. Ani hanv bosivelo dhevntokoch mhagelo ixtt Wency gavlo. Dusre sumanant, tagelo ek lokam-khell, Ponnje Akaxvannicher mudravpache (recording) asle. Tagelea lokam-khellant mhagelo aspav aslelean tachea sangata tagelea ghora gelom ani ami tallim vo rehearsal donparche dhed meren choloilem. Hanv, amche ghorache sopnnam (stairs) choddtalom. Bolkavant mhagele sorgest avoychea sangata, mhaka bosint gavlelim avoy-dhuv dislim. Tim dog-aim, amgher pavchem kharan mhaka somzolem. Hanv tanchea pattlean ubo aslelean tannim mhaka pollevnk nam dista, vo tanchi nodor mhojer poddunk nam. Mhoje avoyn aplea hatanim, Amandachi bonkachi noddi (anus) ugti keli ani ti bore toren topaslea uprant tinnem mhonnlem. Kitlo vhodd mhonn khatro go ho? Hanga yevnk itle dis kiteak laile? Duens chodd zalem mhonntoch, tumi dotorank uloitat. Cheddvak khanddar mar ani ghott dhor Amandak khanddar marpak mhoje avoyn tika hukom dilo ani fatrir dolloilelem zhadd-palleachem vokhod kaddun agpachea noddin lottlem tedna mhojea islean pollevn, poran bobo-hueli ghatleo. Mhoji sorgest avoi, bhurgeank zhadd-palleachem vo Khatreachem vokhod ditali. Lhan bhurgeank, agpache tras zale mhonntoch, tankam portean-portean pattol agop zatalem ani bhonkachea purmutteak vo noddik khatro poddun rogot-bhairem suntalem. Kaim voizam kodden hem duens borem zainam zatotokoch, xevottak ho lok mhojea avoyxim yetalo. Koddok pothk-achi (mandatory diet) bhurgeank, toxech bhurgeanche avoyank samballunk zata zalear, tednach mhoji sorgest avoy aplem ghuttachem vokhod ditali. Ani tin disam modim, bhurgim sap bhorim zatalim vo tanchem rogot-bhairem bond zatalem. Amandache noddik vokhodd ghalun tagelea bendar dovo kuddko mhoje avoyn bandlo. Amanda, mhaka polloit aslem ani roddkulea avazan mhonnlem. Mummy! Mister.mister mister Borem borem. Ogi rav baye. Mister yetolo Dakhttem por azun mhoji yad korta oxem Amandachi avoy somzoli. Ani porachea pattir hat oddit taka fuslayun, roddpache ogem kortali tednam mhojea avoin tika mhonnlem. Ghoddie tujem cheddum, tujea pattlean asleleak mister mhonntta astelem. Ani ti soroll pattlean vovli ani tthotakun vicharlem Tum hanga? To mhozo tisro put, mhoje sorgest avoin vollok
Re: [Goanet] After days of bad press, Goa back in a festive mood
Hi Avelino, How I agree with you, so much so that I was looking for something to bring me back to 2008 and a bit of respite, I was looking forward to this, oh dear, the link is not live, it does not exist or the server cannot find it. What a shame, perhaps you can look at the address again repost? John Monteiro -- D'Souza, Avelino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote. After days of bad press, Goa back in a festive mood Goa: After many days of bad press, Goa was back in a festive mood with the famous Shigmo festival, which depicts the state's folk culture. http://www.ibnlive.com/news/after-days-of-bad-press-goa-back-in-a-festiv e-mood/62269-3.html Avelino
Re: [Goanet] Goa: Govt bans foreigners from buying land
Agreed, totally! Alinda Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fantastic news. BRAVO --- Read all Goanet messages at: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/ ---
Re: [Goanet] Casmiro Monteiro
Dear Sonia Bernado I half-agree with you both but as I said previously to both of you, I am not in the exact same mind-frame. This is for several reasons, but the main two are a) he was my long-lost father b) if he was who we think he is, we ought to be able to fill in some of the missing gaps for the relatives of his victims let them know what sort of person he really was, to his own immediate family how they treated my family when we were in Goa. Other reasons come to mind but probably not printable here, in most ways this demon of a man should be now a humilated in public if there is any justice in the world, the Goans who suffered at his (and his brother's) hands ought to have the last say. He abused Goans, and my mother his two sons, I think that is enough to have him pilloried from here to hell. Saying Mass being ever-so forgiving, that is all well and good, and possibly this may happen one day, but not just yet, we have to have justice for all the Goans of the 1950's (and beyond? anyone shed a light on this from post-1961), and for my mother who died a broken woman. Say a prayer for her, she deserves it more than anyone. Say regular prayers for the souls of the departed, for they were forced to leave this world by the likes of my father, who used abused the nation of Goa while living and revelling in it, and as I said before, the main cause of the suffering in my family the reason I wet the bed every night I was reminded of his presence, even when I was not at home, but alone afraid child at Loyola High School. John Monteiro -- sonia gomes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote. Yes, I feel the same as Bernardo, let Casimiro Monteiro be dead and gone and let John not think of him anymore, the issue is truly irrelevant and could cause only pain. Warm wishes Sonia do Rosario Gomes --- -- Bernado Colaco wrote: Recently one Roland Francis from Spadina Avenue,Toronto, Canada has invoked the memory of Agente Monteiro and has left John Monteiro of Berkshire in a quandary as to his parentage. RF should spend more time in my opinion on the current Monteiro's that Goa has produced and is producing since 61. Please do not raise issues of irrelevance. CM is dead and gone.BC --
Re: [Goanet] Casmiro Monteiro ............ 1950's / LHS
as confirmation for me. I remember he had a moustache, thick one just over his lip, and slightly on the corner of his mouth, no beard or side burns, roundish face, jet black hair (oiled), rather a large man (probably looked bigger to me due to the fact I was a child at the time), broad shouldered like a swimmer has (I take similar physical features from him especially the broad shoulders but now a bit overweight (too many Vindaloos, Mauritian Indian curries briani), but shaved off my moustache three years ago when I remembered this). One way or another, at the very least if he is NOT my father, then I will have to restart my search, at the worst he IS my father I will have this monkey off my back start to fill in gaps of my childhood, perhaps even putting it in print, one day. Regards John Frederick [FN] Noron ha * फà¥à¤°à¥à¤¡ रिठन à¥à¤°à¥à¤à¤¯à¤¾ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi John, Don't be so harsh on yourself! We don't choose our parents, and we can't always be responsible for their actions (except those of our children, in a way). Even assuming he's your dad, I think your attitude matters more than his! There are issues involved here though. Understanding Agente Monteiro is important for filling in the gaps as far as Goan history goes. And there are many gaps, not just this one, both pre-1961 and post-1961. It needn't be a witch-hunt, though one could understand the pain of those who suffered brutalities of whatever form. At the same time, those at whose hands the brutalities was doled out were mentally prisoners of those times. I'm sure they believed they were doing their patriotic duty, 'protecting' Goa or whatever. When I visited Dachau in 1998, I wondered how anyone could have done what they did there hardly six decades earlier. But while we do it, we all have justifications for the violence we wreck on others, even in the case of Gujarat in 2002 or in Algeria or Vietnam and Indonesia or Afghanistan, and the many invasions (and toppling-via-military-coups) that even countries the US has undertaken in recent times. There is, sometimes, a self-correcting mechanism at play though. Call it poetic justice, if you want to. The children of many of those who have strong anti-'outsider' sentiments have chosen to marry people from the other states of India, for instance. Just my thoughts ... FN On 28/03/2008, JOHN MONTEIRO wrote: Dear Roland, I cannot thank you enough for this, it is a start for me. I have always known in my heart that the evil of my father was totally like this, he was a very nasty, ferocious unaffectionate man, that was towards his family, my mother, my brother and me. The rest of our neighbours suffered from his visits also, but my mother was too timid (it was the 1950's all women, whether Goan or Portuguese or as in my mother's case, English father French mother, had no rights and no discussions between them, she did as she was told, no arguments)
Re: [Goanet] Agente Monteiro
Dear Dr D'Souza Thank you again for the effort, time trouble you have put into this. We all await eargerly, the responses from your contacts let us hope to put some filling in the gaps here there, as FN put it, there are some gaps in the pre-1961 the post-1961 events if we can help to fill them, I shall be very pleased to have done my bit. I know that there are some issues that some might say ought not to be aired on a public forum, but IF this man was my father, it is not something that ought to be kept private, he was not a private man in the 1950's that I am aware of, he was a different sort of private man, certainly not a public figure such as a local politician or celebraty, though is some ways it could be said he was, though no different to some of them if they were as corrupt and disreputable as my father was. He deserves to be a public figure, and if proved that this Agente Casmiro Monteiro was indeed my father, then I will do my utmost to bring his name down in shame for all he did, and hope it serves some good purpose let the Portuguese nation know what kind of Patriot he really was, whether or not he was of that time, or not, he had not asked for forgiveness or understanding of WHY murder mayhem had to be the way he found employment. John Monteiro Teotonio R. de Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have submitted JM's report on goanet to the best present-day expert on PIDE in Portugal. I shall get back as soon as I get some feedback. More recently one of the close collaborators of CM, namely Rosa C. who murdered Humberto Delgado, died very recently in Spain, but not before publishing an autobiographical book, in which he claims he served «loyally» his country! Message: 7 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:34:45 +0530 From: Frederick [FN] Noronha * ??? Subject: Re: [Goanet] Casmiro Monteiro 1950's / LHS To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi John, Don't be so harsh on yourself! We don't choose our parents, and we can't always be responsible for their actions (except those of our children, in a way). Even assuming he's your dad, I think your attitude matters more than his! There are issues involved here though. Understanding Agente Monteiro is important for filling in the gaps as far as Goan history goes. And there are many gaps, not just this one, both pre-1961 and post-1961.
Re: [Goanet] Potential photo of Casmiro Monteiro aka Agente Monteiro
Dear Bosco Thank you for your kind contribution, I am grateful to everyone who emailed me, I am also confirming that this man is indeed my father. I have communicated with FN (amongst many others) who sent me the attachment of this photo of my father earlier, for some reason your email went into the BULK files, that is unusual in itself because all my Goanet emails come to my INBOX, it was just a coincidence I looked in the BULK files before deleting all the rubbish we receive daily. I am glad I did. I am currently in correspondence with half a dozen Goannetters who are helping me greatly, also researching much faster than I can, and they have contacts in here in UK, Portugal, Mozambique, Spain South Africa where my father was also located prior to 1951 (London where he met my mother where I was born) during the 1950's when we were present in Goa, post-1961 when he was still at large in various countries (and of course in 1958 when we were in Portugal for about 8 months). Once we have it all in one place, in some order as it were, we will take the next step, what that will be I am not sure, but I will go under advisement from the Goanetters who have told me to be wary about this to be more discreet to my wife who says I ought not to go public again, so maybe all communications please may be more sensible if it come to me in private email form after today. Thanks again John. Bosco D'Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is believed to be a photo of Casimiro Teles Jordao Monteiro, a widely-feared PIDE agent (also known as Agente Monteiro), in Portuguese-ruled colonial Goa can be found at: http://www.goanet.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=38pos=0 - Bosco
Re: [Goanet] Casmiro Monteiro ............ 1950's / LHS
merchant cum timber contractor was operating his very successful timber business in Goa supplying timber to various outlets, timber such as teak wood, which was freely available in forested areas of Valpoi etc. This contractor is believed to have been operating in a dubious manner, where, he would get the forest department's mandatory clearance to cut say 50 teak trees, but would actually cut 100 or more. And this was not without the connivance of the officials of the forest department who were kept happy by this contractor with ample gifts during Ganesh, Divali and Christmas festivals. It is believed that one such upright lower official of the forest department had the courage to send back such a gift from this contractor, not because he wanted a better and a more expensive one, but merely because he disliked to be bribed and taken for granted. Due recognition was registered by the contractor in this particular case which was considered as an insult. Things started to get out of hand gradually as the contractor was denuding the government forests of its teak trees to the extent that an anonymous letter reached the desk of the brand new and very young Director of forests by the name of Maciel Chaves, first out of college from Lisbon, having been deputed to take charge in Goa, ratting on the deeds of the timber contractor who hailed from Marcel-Goa. The director was duly warned that the personnel of his department could not be trusted and could be on the payroll of the contractor. It is believed that young Chaves started making clandestine inspection trips to the scenes of the crime , talking to people etc. This, having alarmed the contractor, he made contact with the Azad Gomantak Dal, which was then making regular incursions into Goa as satyagraha strikes, to have this young Director assassinated. A 'supari', as it is known in ordinary parlance. The unfortunate thing actually happened. The young Director was shot dead during one of AGD's incursions into Goa. I am told that a tearful funeral service of this young Director was conducted at the chapel of the old GMC complex at Campal, which complex is now renovated for the IFFI-04. Perhaps the body was taken to Portugal for burial. With Casimiro Monteiro in charge (Agente Monteiro as he was called), the investigations into this murder was conducted on a war footing, given the efficiency of the Portuguese Police. It seems that the timber contractor from Marcel was duly picked up in the middle of the night and taken in. The intensive interrogation is believed to have lasted for almost a month when the accused died in custody. Same night, it is believed that Casimiro Monteiro and two of his guards carried a bundle, hardly considered as a human body, tied up in a bedsheet, to the contractor's home in the dead of the night. The home people having been woken, were ordered to conduct the funeral rites of the remains there and then without allowing the sheet to be unwrapped . Agente Monteiro is said to have left only when the body was totally consumed by flames. To us, in our make believe democracy, where our shoes get worn-out by making trips to the court rooms, this type of swift and horrifying justice makes our legs weak. But then, one could sleep without fear, keeping the doors and windows of the houses open precisely for this very reason of swift justice during the Portuguese rule. And, by the way, the identity of this criminal contractor, who thought he would be able to pillage Goa's forests by having the thorn in Maciel Chaves removed, the blame of which automatically and satisfactorily dumped on the satyagraha movement, must be known to a few in Goa who are still alive . I shall refrain from divulging this name for the moment in order to save the faces of the family members, perhaps the contractors' off-springs, who may or may not be immersed in the current Goa's politics of sin. On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 6:49 AM, JOHN MONTEIRO wrote: Dear Bernado I was indeed shocked to the core ( I am still bodily shaking) to read the report Roland had posted, for the incident in 1955. As much as I feel my personal life has nothing much to do with the events of today, on Goanet, or in Goa itself, maybe of no interest to anyone outside the Monteiro family, I am pleading with everyone who may have any information regarding the Agente Casemiro Monteiro ( his brother) who were in Goa during the 1950's.
Re: [Goanet] Casmiro Monteiro ............ 1950's / LHS
Dear Bernado I have always wanted to find my father's side of the family. In fact I have been searching more and more over the past years since my mother passed away in 1999. That's nearly 9 years of searching for him, his brother any relatives in Goa Lisbon. Casemiro Monteiro, whether he was in fact my father, and his brother who was with him (our uncle), we (my mother, my younger brother I) lived together in the same house IN Goa. I was indeed shocked to the core ( I am still bodily shaking) to read the report Roland had posted, for the incident in 1955. As much as I feel my personal life has nothing much to do with the events of today, on Goanet, or in Goa itself, maybe of no interest to anyone outside the Monteiro family, I am pleading with everyone who may have any information regarding the Agente Casemiro Monteiro ( his brother) who were in Goa during the 1950's. You say, CM is dead gone he was irrelevant, well that is probably right, for you possibly many other posters who have read your post, and mine. But a small detraction away from the current Monteiros since 1961 will not make much difference to you or those who are not interested in my plight, but I also need to know about my father, who he was and where he went, whether or not he was that person described in Roland's post. I can only SUSPECT it was him, I cannot be sure of it. So I ask again, if anyone has any light they can shed on this man, I would be very grateful to you. Any archive footage such as Roland's or links to where I can go next to find out more about this man, can only help me (and my family). Even if he is indeed dead gone as you put it, it would help us enormously to lay our ghosts to rest, if it is true, then where is he laid, where are his / my paternal relatives living in Goa / Lisbon? Surely this is not too much to ask, and it will not deter from the main events currently being discussed (some ad nausium, but still being read by yours truly). I thank anyone in advance for any information, no matter how small or insignificant they feel they have some information or knowledge on this. John Monteiro -- Bernado Colaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently one Roland Francis from Spadina Avenue, Toronto, Canada has invoked the memory of Agente Monteiro and has left John Monteiro of Berkshire in a quandary as to his parentage. RF should spend more time in my opinion on the current Monteiro's that Goa has produced and is producing since 61. Please do not raise issues of irrelevance. CM is dead and gone. BC __
Re: [Goanet] Agente Monteiro - An Episode in 1955
Dear Roland I have just read your post regarding the desecration of of a temple by Agent Casimero Monteiro. I had to stop for some time before continuing to read the rest of the post. Forgive me but is there ANY more information with regard to this Agent CASEMIRO MONTEIRO and his brother? Did he indeed leave Goa before the liberation in 1961? Is there anywhere in any Goan government or non-Government Agencies or Newspapers that would carry any further information of his his brother's location then, or now? I have this (awful sick) feeling in the pit of my stomach regarding this man, Agent Casimero Monteiro, I suspect I have some recollections of this man his brother because if he is the same man that I think it is, it may well have been my father and uncle. Shame on me for this, but I have been looking for him his whereabouts for some time now. I was 5 years old at the time, in 1955 (17 June), and wondered whatever happened to my father after we left Goa suddenly for a holiday break of 8 months in 1958 in LISBOA, returning to Goa afterwards but not seeing him much, then after a while, never again. I was n Loyola High School never had a visit from him, only my mother, when she was well enough came to see me. On my First Communion in August 1959 I only had Brother Canna look after me, no relatives or parents there, in borrowed white trousers, shirt plimsoles, thanks for the kindness Brother Canna... (he died a few years back, I believe of cancer is buried in Pune Cemetery). Otherwise, my whole childhood in Goa from 1951/2 to 1961 is very sketchy, including some earlier latter days, my memories refuse to form in my mind, because there was some trauma at the time in my life, my mother my brother's life also, my father was PORTUGUESE ( not a very nice man to us, not at all nice to our neighbours or to the Goan population as a whole, I always suspected he was a force for no-good during my childhood in Goa when he my mother took me to Goa from London where I was born, to live in Goa). I hope you or other Goannetters can come up with some links or more information about this AGENT CASEMIRO MONTEIRO for you see, I have had no luck at all in trying to trace him, his extended family in Lisboa or in Goa, with his first (Christian) name coming up for the very first time it made my heart leap to my mouth, for I have never heard his first name verbally or in print, only on my birth certificate. His other forenames would have been Teles, Jordao.. I think its ironic that if he was my father, that I have produced two more who pray in Hindu Temples, I married a Mauritian woman some 19 years ago this May, she is of the Tamil (Hindu) extraction, we have two beautiful daughters who also pray in the HINDU TEMPLES of Murugan / Worship also the deities, Ganesh, Laxmi, Durga, Kali Maa... amongst others, so IF this man was my father, this marriage we made between my wife me, I hope has toppled this father of mine if he ever is still alive today, but also make him ashamed of himself, and his brother. BUT there may be many CASEMIROs in GOA at this time, he would have been in his very early 30's at the time, probably now in his mid-80's if he is still alive. Any information would be appreciated, my father my uncle were a group of Portuguese predators Goa, And I put this mildy, they were not nice people but I still would like to know of his their whereabouts, if my gut feeling is correct, probably either in BRAZIL or in open hiding back in Portugal, perhaps even back in Goa, with his extended family. but where? Can anyone shed any light on this man brother for me? John Monteiro (since Dec 1961) (Joao Roso Monteiro from 17 June 1950 to Dec 1961) --- History or fiction? This emanated from the 1955 Maharastra Gazette records of the so called Bombay Goan freedom fighters and could have been reported by the Goan Congress to inflame the passions of the Indian Govt headed by Pandit Nehru who by and large ignored appeals from these Bombay Goan bodies who were quite disunited and spent about as much time quarreling with each other, as seeking Goa's liberation. There is also a report of one Smt. Lavra D'Souza (yes that is how it was spelt) who went with a band of these freedom fighers to Delhi to meet Nehru. He had no time for them, but walking by the verandah on which they had gathered, he remarked in passing - if you are satyagrahis why are you in Delhi instead of marching on Goa. Therefore the following incident may have happened but likewise, may have been exaggerated and/or reported with bias and prejudice. Interesting nevertheless. Anyone with other stories of the notorious Agente Monteiro? Roland. National Congress (Goa) Dated 8th January. 1955 By our
Re: [Goanet] The Ugly Brit. FOR FAVOUR O PUBLICATION
--- 2008 International Goan Convention Toronto, Canada Early Bird Discount Registration closes March 31, 2008 http://2008goanconvention.com/registration.html --- I totally agree that some people have no care about the way in which they drive around in big cars spill exhaust fumes around without taking on board the cost to the environment or the locality in which they drive. Having said this, it happens in the UK also, as it does all over the world, not just in Goa. There are regulations now coming into force, so by law there are exhaust emissions which we have to take care when we buy cars, ensure we have the right type, or be fined or worse, the car taken away scrapped. At least that is what will happen here in the UK other parts of Europe, soon enough. As for the new owner of property, whether it belonged to, or was occupied by the owner or was let out to tenancy, this is not of concern, if there is law which permits the owner to sell his own property, then I dont see a problem. The owner needs the money, he has to sell. The owner may have died the inheritors decided they did not want it, or could not keep it, so everyone wanted their share, in cash. So the house was sold, the tenant compensated as per contract. You see, your tenant was fortunate, the owner was good enough to build another place for the ex-tenant. When you rent, you have very little in the way of rights to the abode, for ever. The whole idea of renting is just that, you rent. You rent for a period of agreed months or years, here in the UK mostly rentals are short-let or long lease arrangments with many other styles from 6-months to annual renewable rental on houses, apartments or bedsits, etc etc. In Goa I will assume by your choice of words that you are not in favour of the new owner because he or she is uncaring and unthoughtful about his or her neighbours, you also have a worry about the swimming pool the cost of water, not only financially but also the supply of good clean drinking / cooking water. This is all to do with your local governement the people you elected to look after your interests. As we know, and this has been brought about by the Scarlett Keeling case, corruption from the lowest order to the highest in the land is rife, and you permit it. You being the Goan voter, the one who is only in it for the money or title you will get if you vote for this person or that person. The system is corrupt from the shopkeeper who tips in a bit of water in the Feni to the Policeman who takes a bribe for overfilled cars or taps the tourists for extra cash when found to be a drunken driver, and so on. It is disgraceful and I feel very sorry for the neighbours of this uncaring owner of the old house, which no doubt was once a lovely family house and was occupied very peacefully by the tenant, but things change and we must accept change as much as we accept our children grow up leave home, have families of their own, and so on. But not all changes are for the good, this case is one example where corruption and uncaring politicians are creating a cesspit of what was once a haven. John Monteiro Tony de Sa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- 2008 International Goan Convention Toronto, Canada Early Bird Discount Registration closes March 31, 2008 http://2008goanconvention.com/registration.html --- Sir, A lot of hue and cry is being made about the Keeling rape/ murder, by Brits who are holidaying or have chosen Goa as their retirement destination. There is an image being projected, that the Goans only want their money, but not them. Let's look at the other side of the picture. A Brit has purchased an old 'Portuguese villa' as the brochures describe it in Moira. So far so good. Now to get rid of the tenant, he has built a house for him at one edge of his property. Even better. Now here it starts hitting the fan! In building the house, and refurbishing the main house, Panchayat regulations have been thrown to the wind. Again there is a small matter about a swimming pool. When locals objected to it, the contractor (in collusion with the owner?) sought to pass it off as a sump. If the pit was a sump, why tile it with ceramic tiles and install lights? We the locals are concerned about the scarcity of water, depletion of the water table and pollution due to the chemicals used in the swimming pool. Our Brit has got it 'regularized', probably by spreading a few pounds (which apparently he has in plenty) here and there. Again he owns a big Bolero car that barely fits in our narrow
Re: [Goanet] Kindly Help
Hi Gabe This ad for a housemaid seems genuine, I am sure it is (am I REALLY sure??), but I dont understand why an age restriction is in place, why a female of 25yrs to 35 yrs only? Call me a suspicious old man (if 58 is old these days.) but I dont see how a 25yr to 35yr old female house worker would be better at the job than say, one of 50yrs or older? If I had requested a house worker / maid I would always ask for one over 50 years old, I feel they are usually not tied down with small children or forever at the beck call of family members. If over-50yrs old, they usually have older children are generally working to keep busy while contribution towards the household. The reason I say this is because I read something by peu De had posted on another Goan website regarding a 10yr old boy catching AIDS via eating an infected pineapple (long story, but it can be found on this other website, if anyone is interested I will refer you to it). This story too was also suspicious to me so I put aside some time to going to various websites emailing advice lines regarding this, unfortunately Goanet got the results from me, posted by mistake, as I was informed by the moderator. I then emailed the correct website posted my response to which peu De is also a contributor, but received no reply or response to my question... who where why etc. If you daughter is (genuinely) interested in this Gabe, I think however you have asked the first relevant questions, now we wait for the reply (then engage further, it all sounds a bit iffy to me). Bet you there will be no reply to all your questions, not on any public forum, from peu De, or his/her cousin.. Good luck but I suspect you wont be holding your breath either. John Monteiro -- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 06/03/2008, peu De wrote:Dear netters! My Goan cousin is urgently in need of a preferably Goan or Magalorean fulltime housemaid between the ages of 25 to 35 years to help her to do household work of cleaning,cooking and looking after a school going kid in Dubai itself.If interested please contact :tel:04/2852886 at the earliest .Many thanks and God bless. --- RESPONSE: My daughter is interested; please state terms, conditions and expected salary. Thank you in advance.Gabe Menezes.
Re: [Goanet] Of beach umbrellas
How I agree with Dr Samir about this, I have been away too long, my childhood in Goa is exactly as he described it, unhindered I am hugely saddened to see, hear read the onslaught of rampant tourism, its gone totally haywire, but with the inward migration adding to the fabric of society but not contributing to the wealth of the individual. By wealth I do mean more cash needed for the needy the hard working Goans, but also to the nature beauty unspoilt beaches, countryside the treat of getting an ice-cream or chocolate, jalebi or other sweets, when it was celebration time when it was a special occasion. Now the children demand much more than an old bicycle (with no tyre) and a stick to race your friends by, to throw sticks, stones whatever you have to get a mango (or several) from a tree overlapping into the road... or watching the dobi doing the laundry, surrounded by soap suds gushing water the simple jumping into the well having fun with your friends during the moonsoon when the wells were overflowing, sitting by the stream with a simple hook a worm or two to catch fish (to take home to eat of course). Ah yes, Dr Samir, those WERE the days. I hope pray there are some parts of Goa that I will see have not changed too much because we plan to visit end of this year, some 46 years too late I know, Goa was not forgotten or forsaken by me, it was for other reasons too personal to go into right now, but I (with my wife two daughters who have not seen Goa at all), will be coming end of this year. I have been lucky enough to get many personal emails from very nice Goanetters who have volunteered to help us around, from reasonably priced places to stay in Margao Mapuca to the rather more posh places (anything over 2 star is posh for me). If anyone has the spare time, perhaps suggesting places we could visit on our very brief fortnight in Goa, we would love to hear from you. I am still trying to trace my Portuguese family tree in Goa, we have got nowhere with our enquiries, a blind alley here a suggestion there, but in total, I cannot remember exactly where in Goa we resided, no address or anything but I can remember certain details only, I left when I was 11 years old. John Monteiro - sandeep heble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Of beach umbrellas...by Dr Samir Heble. I remember the pristine Goa of my childhood: the beautiful beaches and Dona Paola untinged, unlike todayâs worldly consumerism, the sandy sands where we could revel in the simple yet rich pleasures of life and the azure seas that were crystal clear. It is indeed a sad time now that beach umbrellas have begun encroaching on the public beaches. I hope we are not evolving into a narcissistic society, a society more interested in enriching individual purses than in enriching Goa's natural beauty. Some years ago when Bill Clinton had visited the Taj on his official presidential tour, he had remarked: There are only two types of tourists, those that have visited the Taj and those that havenât . At that time, I had the same feelings for Goa too. I do want to believe the same now too. Our innocent children want to run around and play on our beaches, unhindered by our rich umbrellas. We yearn to enjoy the serenity of our uncluttered beaches too. Simple can be beautiful. Simple can be soothing. Letâs keep Goa simple and clean and make it even richer. Dr Samir Heble -
Re: [Goanet] Maid arrested for theft in Bicholim
I am not for one minute suggesting how the lady of the house protects her belongings but perhaps she ought to be more careful. She took off her bangles and left them out in the open for two days before she decided she would retrieve them. She did not find them so automatically it was the maid's fault. I do not condone theft, especially if you trust someone to work in your house, has the trust of the family of the employer, but is it reasonable to assume someone who flaunts their wealth in front of a poor lady, who has obviously no generous or sufficient income in her household to maintain any sensible living, will eventually give in to the temptation laid down before her? I would not have called the police but asked the maid to return the bangles apologise to her to her for leaving them around for TWO DAYS, unattended and thank her for looking after them for me. At least that is what I would hope I would have done in this matter, but I really do wonder if calling the police in this matter would have served anyone better? The poor lady, a maid for this lady, so do we know how many people had access to the bangles? Access to the house? Was this lady living alone? Had she got members of her family around? Youngsters around? Any other people about? Why leave her stuff unsecured? I dont think this case merits this maid to be turned into a criminal, for its the owner of the valuables who is at fault, not a momentary lapse, this was TWO days later. I feel sorry for this maid, possibly the sole breadwinner in the family or one that is contributing heavily, albeit (and I assume this is true), with said bracelets, so no worries for the family, for a while... John Monteiro Samir Umarye BICHOLIM FEB 26: Bicholim police today arrested a house maid in connection with a theft of golden bangles worth Rs 28,000. According to the available information one Margaret Fernendes from Gokulwadi Sanquelim had kept her golden bangles on the TV while going to the church on Sunday. After two days when she checked she found the bangles missing. She inquired with her maid, Abole alias Taramati Tivrekar, from Desai Nagar Sanquelim, who failed to return to work later. Today, Fernandes registered a complaint with the Bicholim police against the maid. Tivrekar was arrested under section 381 IPC and was remanded to seven days police custody. Police is further investigating the case.
Re: [Goanet] Tracing roots in Goa
occasionally when finances or conscience will allow. Good luck to ALL Mauritians who seek their ancestral homeland if originally from India, be recognised as PIO, legally, good luck to you all. I wish I could trace my Portuguese ancestry in Goa, I have been trying but failed at every hurdle, may the Goans who have migrated lost contact with their ancestral homeland be given the help of the Goan government to trace their families. John Monteiro - Nicholas DSouza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : I see that the government of Mauritius is about to help persons of Indian origin there trace their roots in India. Seehttp://www.rediff.com/news/2008/feb/20bihari.htm.I wonder if the government of Goa could help Goans who have migrated elsewhere do likewise.I am sure people would appreciate such a gesture and also avail of this opportunity to draw up their family trees before the records in Goa get obliterated.Nicholas de Souza
Re: [Goanet] : Please sign this online petition reg attacks on Christians in Orissa
Ditto. I sent same to friends, my wife also signed. Good luck John Monteiro --- anand virgincar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear George-bab,I have signed the petition as requested . Furthermore ,I have taken the liberty of forwarding the appeal to my several hundred friends and colleagues urging them todo the same at the earliest. I sincerely hope other fellow Goanetters will follow suit .My prayers are always with the Christians ( or for that matter peoples of any faith ) who are victims of violenceanywhere in the world.luv and regards, anand ( Dr Anand Virgincar ) --
Re: [Goanet] Religion, God and you
Albert If you want to know more about Islam their Holy Book, go to this website http://www.muslim.org/qur you will find all 114 Chapters from Opening to Men in English. You will be able copy down, paste or print off sections you wish... I am fortunate however to have the Muslim Holy Book, given to me by my Saudi Arabian friend, on the birth of my first child (Feb 1991), a girl. The Holy Q'uran that I have is printed in Arabic but with English translation alongside. We are not Muslims but we find some of the chapters interesting, some parts of which are enlightening too, and not at all like the Islamaphobic utterings we continually hear on the media. Good luck John Monteiro. Albert Desouza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Goanetters . I wished Icould get an English version of the koran. All religious books should be in English, Konkani and even Marathi where every one can read and appreciate the same and then only we will find that all religions are having the same textLove God and love your neighbour albert
