Re: [Goanet] Incubator For Political Crooks?
Jose Colaco wrote: You are a finance man. You know that when Wealth is transferred from A (say Goa) to B (say Portugal), one would expect it to show up somewhere that B became wealthy. Now, I know that Mervyn will demonstrate that. jc Doc, One of my lecturers in Dar-es-Salaam was the Guyanese historian Walter Rodney. Here is a quote from him. The decisiveness of the short period of colonialism and its negative consequences for Africa spring mainly from the fact that Africa lost power. Power is the ultimate determinant in human society, being basic to the relations within any group and between groups. It implies the ability to defend one's interests and if necessary to impose one's will by any means available. In relations between peoples, the question of power determines manoeuvrability in bargaining, the extent to which one people respect the interests of another, and eventually the extent to which a people survive as a physical and cultural entity. When one society finds itself forced to relinquish power entirely to another society that in itself is a form of underdevelopment ... During the centuries of pre-colonial trade, some control over social political and economic life was retained in Africa, in spite of the disadvantageous commerce with Europeans. That little control over internal matters disappeared under colonialism. Colonialism went much further than trade. It meant a tendency towards direct appropriation by Europeans of the social institutions within Africa. Africans ceased to set indigenous cultural goals and standards, and lost full command of training young members of the society. Those were undoubtedly major steps backwards ... Colonialism was not merely a system of exploitation, but one whose essential purpose was to repatriate the profits to the so-called 'mother country'. From an African view-point, that amounted to consistent expatriation of surplus produced by African labour out of African resources. It meant the development of Europe as part of the same dialectical process in which Africa was underdeveloped. Mr. Rodney may or may not be correct but I am sure he sows the seeds of doubt in even the most ardent non-believer, that colonialism did not benefit the colonized. As for your question on where the wealth showed up, I am of the opinion it was made just to annoy certain people :-) Nevertheless, I have been repeating as often as I can that if you want to get to the real cause of any event, your best bet is follow the money. The money or wealth in this case was transferred (and this is not to annoy anyone) in the form of gold. Gold moved from Goa to Portugal and not in the opposite direction, believe it or not. Lastly, I am told that people who own gold take pains to not disclose where it is. When required, they liquidate part of the same and build houses, castles or business empires. I am sure you will agree with me that there are much better houses, castles and business empires in Portugal, than in Goa. Political crooks? Mervyn1650Lobo
[Goanet] Incubator For Political Crooks?
The Salazar system did not allow the crookery. Your bharat systems is all over the place. Now a genocidist is on the verge of becoming the Prime Minister. BC How is Roland sure that there were no crooks in Portuguese administration, and when? What system did not allow it? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Incubator For Political Crooks?
This one is hilarious. The topic is political crooks? Political crooks? Well, the entire Portuguese colonial system was set up for only one purpose i.e. to harvest the wealth of Goa and transfer it to Portugal. The Portuguese did this well for 450 years. Now someone claims this is not a politically crooked system? Well, then I guess I have to raise my hat to the Portuguese education system in Goa. 50 years after they were kicked out, people still are of the opinion that Salazar's regime in Goa comprised of benevolent, upstanding young men whose job was to spread political freedom in Goa. Mervyn BTW, I guess it is a real challenge today to decide whom to vote for when one candidate is a crook and the other is not? From: roland.francis roland.fran...@ymail.com To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2014 10:57:01 PM Subject: [Goanet] Incubator For Political Crooks? A very recent Goa news item says that one-third of Goa candidates have criminal records. I am not anti Indian or pro Portuguese or anything of the sort but knowing that in Potuguese Goa there was no crook in the administration (the system just didn't allow it) and now learning that fully one third of Goan politicians are crooks, a result of the Indian dispensation, one is tempted to ask VMinGoa or his other avatar VMdeMalar whether better Indian education or inferior Potuguese education had anything to do with this? Roland. Sent from Samsung Mobile
Re: [Goanet] Incubator For Political Crooks?
On Apr 4, 2014, at 7:41 PM, Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca wrote: This one is hilarious. The topic is political crooks? Political crooks? Well, the entire Portuguese colonial system was set up for only one purpose i.e. to harvest the wealth of Goa and transfer it to Portugal. COMMENT: This one, indeed is hilarious. You are a finance man. You know that when Wealth is transferred from A (say Goa) to B (say Portugal), one would expect it to show up somewhere that B became wealthy. Now, I know that Mervyn will demonstrate that. jc
Re: [Goanet] Incubator For Political Crooks?
How is Roland sure that there were no crooks in Portuguese administration, and when? What system did not allow it? Cheers, Santosh On Friday, April 4, 2014 12:02 AM, roland.francis roland.fran...@ymail.com wrote: A very recent Goa news item says that one-third of Goa candidates have criminal records. I am not anti Indian or pro Portuguese or anything of the sort but knowing that in Potuguese Goa there was no crook in the administration (the system just didn't allow it) and now learning that fully one third of Goan politicians are crooks, a result of the Indian dispensation, one is tempted to ask VMinGoa or his other avatar VMdeMalar whether better Indian education or inferior Potuguese education had anything to do with this? Roland. Sent from Samsung Mobile
Re: [Goanet] Incubator For Political Crooks?
I like to consult contemporary or historical writings for facts about our history. I will retrieve from what I have read in the past the names and/or designations of public officials who were reported to be corrupt and crooked in the Portuguese administration when I have some free time later. But asking to substantiate a factual statement by Roland is not asking to prove a negative. All he has to do is tell us where he got that factual information from. Given the fact that there was no freedom of the press in Goa during the Portuguese rule, most of the claims made by lay people are hearsay, and for the most part, wrong. As for Josebab's understanding below, we know very well that in the post-Portuguese Goa many of the administrative officials who are known to be crooked and corrupt are also Goans, some of whom were educated during the Portuguese rule. My observation has been that corruption and crookedness does not have anything do with education, race or religion. Cheers, Santosh On Friday, April 4, 2014 7:09 AM, Jose Colaco cola...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 4, 2014, at 1:12 AM, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote: How is Roland sure that there were no crooks in Portuguese administration, and when? What system did not allow it? COMMENT: While Roland does the needful to answer Santoshbab's question, I believe it would help IF Santoshbab identified at least a couple of the crooks from the Portuguese administration that he knows of. Otherwise, at this moment, it appears as though Roland is being asked to prove/disprove the negative. Such techniques are possibly brilliant in Debates, Political skirmishes and perhaps in the Court of Public Opinion; NOT in any reasonable court. ps: it is my understanding that the Vast Majority of administrators and policemen in Portuguese Goans were Goans. Is the suggestion being made here that A SYSTEM which enabled Goans to live without locking their front doors, actually allowed Corruption in public administration to flourish? Might be a good idea to prove it. jc
Re: [Goanet] Incubator For Political Crooks?
On Apr 4, 2014, at 1:12 AM, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote: How is Roland sure that there were no crooks in Portuguese administration, and when? What system did not allow it? COMMENT: While Roland does the needful to answer Santoshbab's question, I believe it would help IF Santoshbab identified at least a couple of the crooks from the Portuguese administration that he knows of. Otherwise, at this moment, it appears as though Roland is being asked to prove/disprove the negative. Such techniques are possibly brilliant in Debates, Political skirmishes and perhaps in the Court of Public Opinion; NOT in any reasonable court. ps: it is my understanding that the Vast Majority of administrators and policemen in Portuguese Goans were Goans. Is the suggestion being made here that A SYSTEM which enabled Goans to live without locking their front doors, actually allowed Corruption in public administration to flourish? Might be a good idea to prove it. jc
[Goanet] Incubator For Political Crooks?
A very recent Goa news item says that one-third of Goa candidates have criminal records. I am not anti Indian or pro Portuguese or anything of the sort but knowing that in Potuguese Goa there was no crook in the administration (the system just didn't allow it) and now learning that fully one third of Goan politicians are crooks, a result of the Indian dispensation, one is tempted to ask VMinGoa or his other avatar VMdeMalar whether better Indian education or inferior Potuguese education had anything to do with this? Roland. Sent from Samsung Mobile
