Re: [h-cost] What to name a dressmaker's dummy
My 'guy' is AlCid His most recent outing was to do battle at the Heart Fund Ball modeling the Andy Worhal Cambell Soup Tee! Kathleen -Original Message- From: Cin cinbar...@gmail.com Sent 3/3/2010 2:29:04 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] What to name a dressmaker's dummyKathy, Here's a project I can get into: helping you name your dummy. I'm partial to the classics such as the Three Graces, Euphrosnia (my dummy's name), Thalia Aglaia. My guy dummy is Adonis, for his mythic youth beauty. I'm sure others can make excellent suggestions, --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 11:00 AM, h-costume-requ...@indra.com wrote: From: Kathy Hoover kath...@gmail.com My dummy (I'm ever-hoping that a flash of inspiration will bring her an appropriate/creative/amusing name--but alas, she remains headless and anonymous) is presently naked-- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Experiences with this company?
I ordered some buttons from them last year. We had problems contacting them via e-mail, but had no problems contacting them over the phone (which was obviously in the evening allowing for the time difference from the UK). The buttons (naval ones) were delivered quite a bit later than they said they would be, and I'd had to put a temporary 'they'll do set on the uniform they were for, but when they did arrive they were very good. Debbie In a message dated 04/03/2010 04:12:04 GMT Standard Time, h-costume-requ...@indra.com writes: On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 10:42, Hanna Zickermann h.zickerm...@gmx.de wrote: Good afternoon, I have placed an order with this company http://www.militaryheritage.com/ last weekend. So far, I only got an automatic respond e-mail. I tried to call them, but this didn?t work either as they wanted me to confirm my call by entering a 10-digit-phone number (which we don?t have in Germany). Do I need to worry? I gave them my credit card details... Best, Hanna ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] what to name a dressmaker's dummy
Mine, presently wearing only a Viking helmet over its stump, had no name. It is a donated dial-a-size that shall be from now on, Breezy. in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Question: Regency trains?
I'm looking to make my first (non-fantasy-tinged) Regency gown, out of white on white windowpane cotton. I am finding that during my target time period (1800-1810) many (all?) dresses had a train, even for day. I'm considering eliminating this to reduce wear and tear (it's fine white fabric after all), but if I choose to make one, what can I do to minimize damage? Is it documented to include a lining, or loop the train up, or detach it in some way? Arnold and Bradfield aren't showing much so far, except for looped-up riding gowns, which isn't the style I'm after. Thoughts? And thanks in advance, Allison T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains?
Allison--many, but not all, day dresses had trains, and, at least in the US, trains were out of style for day dresses by 1805. (I seem to remember a quote that they were out of style in England by then, too, but I can't remember the exact reference for that one.) The train would have been cut as an extension of the skirt, so not detachable. I think I would go without, if I were you, considering the extreme hassle it would be in a white cotton. Ann Wass -Original Message- From: A. Thurman athur...@gmail.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:17 pm Subject: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains? I'm looking to make my first (non-fantasy-tinged) Regency gown, out of hite on white windowpane cotton. I am finding that during my target time period (1800-1810) many (all?) resses had a train, even for day. I'm considering eliminating this to reduce wear and tear (it's fine hite fabric after all), but if I choose to make one, what can I do to inimize damage? Is it documented to include a lining, or loop the rain up, or detach it in some way? Arnold and Bradfield aren't howing much so far, except for looped-up riding gowns, which isn't he style I'm after. Thoughts? And thanks in advance, Allison T. __ -costume mailing list -cost...@mail.indra.com ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume = ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains?
I recently read (will try to hunt down the source, so this isn't official) that they normally wore the train over one arm. The point was to bring the skirt close to the legs to emphasize the nearly naked look. So trains didn't trail, they helped you look naughty. ;-) And they stayed clean! The few trained muslin dresses I've seen had suspiciously unstained trains. I'd wondered how the museums had gotten the mud out without damaging the fabric. Happy sewing, Deb Salisbury The Mantua-Maker Designer and creator of quality historical sewing patterns, Renaissance to Victorian Now available: Elephant's Breath and London Smoke: Historical Colors, Names, Definitions Uses www.mantua-maker.com http://mantua-maker-patterns.blogspot.com I'm looking to make my first (non-fantasy-tinged) Regency gown, out of white on white windowpane cotton. I am finding that during my target time period (1800-1810) many (all?) dresses had a train, even for day. I'm considering eliminating this to reduce wear and tear (it's fine white fabric after all), but if I choose to make one, what can I do to minimize damage? Is it documented to include a lining, or loop the train up, or detach it in some way? Arnold and Bradfield aren't showing much so far, except for looped-up riding gowns, which isn't the style I'm after. Thoughts? And thanks in advance, Allison T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains?
I think I would go without, if I were you, considering the extreme hassle it would be in a white cotton. And the fact that nobody seems to know how to behave around a train, and if it ever hits the floor somebody will step on it. -- Carolyn Kayta Barrows -- “The future is already here, it is just unevenly distributed.” -William Gibson -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains?
I recently read (will try to hunt down the source, so this isn't official) that they normally wore the train over one arm. The point was to bring the skirt close to the legs to emphasize the nearly naked look. So trains didn't trail, they helped you look naughty. ;-) And they stayed clean! The few trained muslin dresses I've seen had suspiciously unstained trains. I'd wondered how the museums had gotten the mud out without damaging the fabric. I have seen one extant dress, almost certainly a day dress (cotton print, bib front) that has a train. That train is not long enough to drape over the arm. Ann Wass -Original Message- From: Deb Salisbury, the Mantua-Maker d...@mantua-maker.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Thu, Mar 4, 2010 2:23 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains? I recently read (will try to hunt down the source, so this isn't official) that they normally wore the train over one arm. The point was to bring the skirt close to the legs to emphasize the nearly naked look. So trains didn't trail, they helped you look naughty. ;-) And they stayed clean! The few trained muslin dresses I've seen had suspiciously unstained trains. I'd wondered how the museums had gotten the mud out without damaging the fabric. Happy sewing, Deb Salisbury The Mantua-Maker Designer and creator of quality historical sewing patterns, Renaissance to Victorian Now available: Elephant's Breath and London Smoke: Historical Colors, Names, Definitions Uses www.mantua-maker.com http://mantua-maker-patterns.blogspot.com I'm looking to make my first (non-fantasy-tinged) Regency gown, out of white on white windowpane cotton. I am finding that during my target time period (1800-1810) many (all?) dresses had a train, even for day. I'm considering eliminating this to reduce wear and tear (it's fine white fabric after all), but if I choose to make one, what can I do to minimize damage? Is it documented to include a lining, or loop the train up, or detach it in some way? Arnold and Bradfield aren't showing much so far, except for looped-up riding gowns, which isn't the style I'm after. Thoughts? And thanks in advance, Allison T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Experiences with this company?
Thank you all, I am very much relieved to hear that. I called the company with my mobile phone (which worked for some reasons, but thank you Rachel for your kind offer!) and left a message on the answering machine. I didn´t know it was such a small company, so I am fine with a bit of waiting! Thank you! Hanna At 13:37 04.03.2010, you wrote: I ordered some buttons from them last year. We had problems contacting them via e-mail, but had no problems contacting them over the phone (which was obviously in the evening allowing for the time difference from the UK). The buttons (naval ones) were delivered quite a bit later than they said they would be, and I'd had to put a temporary 'they'll do set on the uniform they were for, but when they did arrive they were very good. Debbie In a message dated 04/03/2010 04:12:04 GMT Standard Time, h-costume-requ...@indra.com writes: On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 10:42, Hanna Zickermann h.zickerm...@gmx.de wrote: Good afternoon, I have placed an order with this company http://www.militaryheritage.com/ last weekend. So far, I only got an automatic respond e-mail. I tried to call them, but this didn?t work either as they wanted me to confirm my call by entering a 10-digit-phone number (which we don?t have in Germany). Do I need to worry? I gave them my credit card details... Best, Hanna ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Odd Chatter
I don't know if this is OT, but I was asked to chat with someone who is absolutely obsessed with boys in dresses. I was approached as a member of an inactive Yahoo sewing group - I assumed the person just wanted to talk construction and embroidery. She (there is a female persona with this chatter) has a link to an entire database of Victorian boys in frilly gowns, interspersed with some contemporary kilts and third world boys in sarongs. She claims to be Spanish, and her 8 year-old son is interested in wearing that style. It just seems to be a little fishy to me, and I wonder if this is a strange fetishist using an avatar of a seamstress mother. Any opinions? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains?
Sounds lovely. Answering the question of what to do with a train, both in terms of carrying it and in terms of protecting it, is a challenge. Here are some thoughts: For the gowns just before 1800 that were fuller, women are shown twisting the train up behind their backs, holding a bit of it under their arms, or pulling the fullness of the skirt around towards the front. Here are some images from Heideloff's: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1795-03-0005.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1795-07-0005.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1795-10-0005.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1795-11-0002.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1797-08-0002.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1798-03-0005.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1799-05-0002.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1799-10-0002.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1800-10-0005.jpg On the other hand, the fashionable ladies promenading at Kensington Gardens in 1804 allowed their trains to flow behind them, so elegantly. Notice, however, that their petticoats/undergowns also appear to be trained. This might be a clue as to how to protect the overgown from excessive soiling. A easy to wash plain cotton undergown beneath a diaphonous overgown would work well. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/1804-fashionsoflondon-promenade-Kensingtongardens.jpg By 1810 trains all but disappear, and even before that there are many images of gowns that have no trains. And, as an aside, if making a formal gown for evening, be sure to differentiate between 'ball dress' and 'evening wear.' I have yet to find an image of a post-1810 ball gown that has a train. Up to and around 1810 there are plenty of 'full dress' or 'evening wear' or 'opera dress' gowns that do, but ball gowns, no. Ball dress: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/1809-wu-ackermann-balldress.png Evening full dress: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/1809-white-washington.jpg By the way, I would be suspicious of claims that all women wrapped their gowns over their arms to pull them tight. SOunds like a modern interpretation! - Hope ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Odd Chatter
Hmmm. I'd approach with caution, to be sure... while this could be completely innocent (maybe just because her son wants to dress this way?) I can easily see it as some sort of kiddie-porn as well. Sigh. Ain't NOTHIN' uncorrupted any more There is a photo of my grandfather c.1897, age about 2, scowling mightily from beneath his beautiful blond curls while wearing a really lovely frilly little dress and button boots. I think my sister has it now. Thanks for the reminder, I'm going to nag her to find it!!! Liadain You get a wonderful view from the point of no return... http://www.flickr.com/photos/liadains_fancies http://practical-blackwork.blogspot.com http://practicalblackwork.com -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Stacey Dunleavy Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 2:37 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Odd Chatter I don't know if this is OT, but I was asked to chat with someone who is absolutely obsessed with boys in dresses. I was approached as a member of an inactive Yahoo sewing group - I assumed the person just wanted to talk construction and embroidery. She (there is a female persona with this chatter) has a link to an entire database of Victorian boys in frilly gowns, interspersed with some contemporary kilts and third world boys in sarongs. She claims to be Spanish, and her 8 year-old son is interested in wearing that style. It just seems to be a little fishy to me, and I wonder if this is a strange fetishist using an avatar of a seamstress mother. Any opinions? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Odd Chatter
I strictly avoid chat invites with people I don't know. Can't tell who they REALLY are or what the heck they REALLY want, and this iffy-er than any uninvited chats I've ever gotten. Just my two (paranoid) pence. Claudine - Original Message From: Stacey Dunleavy anastas...@gmail.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Thu, March 4, 2010 1:36:56 PM Subject: [h-cost] Odd Chatter I don't know if this is OT, but I was asked to chat with someone who is absolutely obsessed with boys in dresses. I was approached as a member of an inactive Yahoo sewing group - I assumed the person just wanted to talk construction and embroidery. She (there is a female persona with this chatter) has a link to an entire database of Victorian boys in frilly gowns, interspersed with some contemporary kilts and third world boys in sarongs. She claims to be Spanish, and her 8 year-old son is interested in wearing that style. It just seems to be a little fishy to me, and I wonder if this is a strange fetishist using an avatar of a seamstress mother. Any opinions? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains?
And, as an aside, if making a formal gown for evening, be sure to differentiate between 'ball dress' and 'evening wear.' I have yet to find an image of a post-1810 ball gown that has a train. Up to and around 1810 there are plenty of 'full dress' or 'evening wear' or 'opera dress' gowns that do, but ball gowns, no. Ball dress: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/1809-wu-ackermann-balldress.png Evening full dress: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/1809-white-washington.jpg Generally, I agree with you that early 19th-century ball gowns were often shorter than other evening dresses. However, Jane Austen does interestingly say in _Northanger Abbey_ that Catherine and her friend Isabella called each other by their Christian name, were always arm in arm when they walked, pinned up each other's train for the dance, and were not to be divided in the set. Fran Lavolta Press Books on historic clothing, including: The Lady's Stratagem: A Repository of 1820s Directions for the Toilet, Manuta-Making, Stay-Making, Millinery Etiquette http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains?
It is an interesting question, isn't it? My take on that phrase has always been that when she wrote Northanger Abbey in 1798-1799, pinning up a train would have been necessary, particularly in the crowded assembly rooms at Bath. It would have still been an accurate statement when Austen revised the manuscript for potential publication in 1803. The manuscript was revised again just before it's actual (and posthumous) publication in 1817, but it's hard to imagine that anyone would have a train on any gown by that time, so I had always assumed that Austen simply left the earlier phrase stand during that last revision. It captures Catherine and Isabella's relationship so beautifully that I'm glad she left it in... - Hope Lavolta Press wrote: Generally, I agree with you that early 19th-century ball gowns were often shorter than other evening dresses. However, Jane Austen does interestingly say in _Northanger Abbey_ that Catherine and her friend Isabella called each other by their Christian name, were always arm in arm when they walked, pinned up each other's train for the dance, and were not to be divided in the set. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Piece of vintage baleen stay
Hi all, I am looking for a piece of vintage baleen stay. I had a piece and have lost it. I use it in my lectures to show people what it really was like. If anyone knows of anyone willing to part with a piece I would be very grateful - and willing to pay for it. Saragrace ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Piece of vintage baleen stay
I know in Canada you can be gifted with baleen, but there may be issues in the selling/buying of it (unless already in a garment) - leastwise it was when I was on the hunt for it over 10 years ago..you may have better luck at your friendliest costume museum. Bess Darnley / Sarah Paterson - Original Message - Hi all, I am looking for a piece of vintage baleen stay. I had a piece and have lost it. I use it in my lectures to show people what it really was like. If anyone knows of anyone willing to part with a piece I would be very grateful - and willing to pay for it. Saragrace ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Piece of vintage baleen stay
I know someone in the US who bought a long chunk off ebay. fascinating stuff. No, it wasn't vintage. I don't believe. -Judy Mitchell SPaterson wrote: I know in Canada you can be gifted with baleen, but there may be issues in the selling/buying of it (unless already in a garment) - leastwise it was when I was on the hunt for it over 10 years ago..you may have better luck at your friendliest costume museum. Bess Darnley / Sarah Paterson - Original Message - Hi all, I am looking for a piece of vintage baleen stay. I had a piece and have lost it. I use it in my lectures to show people what it really was like. If anyone knows of anyone willing to part with a piece I would be very grateful - and willing to pay for it. Saragrace ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains?
In a message dated 3/4/2010 5:55:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, hope.greenb...@uvm.edu writes: in 1817, but it's hard to imagine that anyone would have a train on any gown by that time Rosalie Stier Calvert, who lived in Prince George's County, Maryland, received clothing from her sister in Antwerp for her daughter's introduction into society in 1817. I've not checked the original French of her letter, but The English translation is that Rosalie regrets that her full-dress blue gown is trailing, as no one was wearing them like that here. I believe that means it has a train, and they must still have been fashionable on the Continent at that time. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Piece of vintage baleen stay
Victorian bodices often have baleen stays. You can probably buy a really damaged one off eBay and take out the bones. The bones I have, have all become brittle with age, but if you want baleen, it's pretty easy to find that way. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Clothing http:///www.lavoltapress.com On 3/4/2010 4:10 PM, Judy Mitchell wrote: I know someone in the US who bought a long chunk off ebay. fascinating stuff. No, it wasn't vintage. I don't believe. -Judy Mitchell ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains?
Just wanted to thank everyone for their replies. Hope, thank you for the images (your post below), and the difference between ball and opera gowns. FWIW, I'm going for a basic day gown that might I might accessorize in future for evening, if possible. Based on your responses. I think I'm going to leave off the train - I am a klutz walking in long skirts at the best of times, and it might be a modern conceit, but I have no interest in walking around holding up my train or bunching it under my arms :P Perhaps I'll create an open robe or similar to dress it up, and IT can have the train! Allison T. Message: 6 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:47:09 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg hope.greenb...@uvm.edu To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains? Message-ID: 4b902a5d.20...@uvm.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sounds lovely. Answering the question of what to do with a train, both in terms of carrying it and in terms of protecting it, is a challenge. Here are some thoughts: For the gowns just before 1800 that were fuller, women are shown twisting the train up behind their backs, holding a bit of it under their arms, or pulling the fullness of the skirt around towards the front. Here are some images from Heideloff's: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1795-03-0005.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1795-07-0005.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1795-10-0005.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1795-11-0002.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1797-08-0002.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1798-03-0005.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1799-05-0002.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1799-10-0002.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1800-10-0005.jpg On the other hand, the fashionable ladies promenading at Kensington Gardens in 1804 allowed their trains to flow behind them, so elegantly. Notice, however, that their petticoats/undergowns also appear to be trained. This might be a clue as to how to protect the overgown from excessive soiling. A easy to wash plain cotton undergown beneath a diaphonous overgown would work well. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/1804-fashionsoflondon-promenade-Kensingtongardens.jpg By 1810 trains all but disappear, and even before that there are many images of gowns that have no trains. And, as an aside, if making a formal gown for evening, be sure to differentiate between 'ball dress' and 'evening wear.' I have yet to find an image of a post-1810 ball gown that has a train. Up to and around 1810 there are plenty of 'full dress' or 'evening wear' or 'opera dress' gowns that do, but ball gowns, no. Ball dress: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/1809-wu-ackermann-balldress.png Evening full dress: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/1809-white-washington.jpg By the way, I would be suspicious of claims that all women wrapped their gowns over their arms to pull them tight. SOunds like a modern interpretation! - Hope ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains?
I believe that means it has a train, and they must still have been fashionable on the Continent at that time. Or maybe, if someone gave uit to her, it's an older trained dress that was out of fashion and the donor thought it could be remodeled by the recipient. -- Carolyn Kayta Barrows -- “The future is already here, it is just unevenly distributed.” -William Gibson -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains?
This post seems to have lots of images to show what you are talking about; however I can not access any of them - I ge a forbiden note at the top of every page. Is there another way to see these images? Paula Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:47:09 -0500 From: hope.greenb...@uvm.edu To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Regency trains? Sounds lovely. Answering the question of what to do with a train, both in terms of carrying it and in terms of protecting it, is a challenge. Here are some thoughts: For the gowns just before 1800 that were fuller, women are shown twisting the train up behind their backs, holding a bit of it under their arms, or pulling the fullness of the skirt around towards the front. Here are some images from Heideloff's: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1795-03-0005.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1795-07-0005.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1795-10-0005.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1795-11-0002.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1797-08-0002.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1798-03-0005.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1799-05-0002.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1799-10-0002.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/heideloff-1800-10-0005.jpg On the other hand, the fashionable ladies promenading at Kensington Gardens in 1804 allowed their trains to flow behind them, so elegantly. Notice, however, that their petticoats/undergowns also appear to be trained. This might be a clue as to how to protect the overgown from excessive soiling. A easy to wash plain cotton undergown beneath a diaphonous overgown would work well. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/1804-fashionsoflondon-promenade-Kensingtongardens.jpg By 1810 trains all but disappear, and even before that there are many images of gowns that have no trains. And, as an aside, if making a formal gown for evening, be sure to differentiate between 'ball dress' and 'evening wear.' I have yet to find an image of a post-1810 ball gown that has a train. Up to and around 1810 there are plenty of 'full dress' or 'evening wear' or 'opera dress' gowns that do, but ball gowns, no. Ball dress: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/1809-wu-ackermann-balldress.png Evening full dress: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/1800train/1809-white-washington.jpg By the way, I would be suspicious of claims that all women wrapped their gowns over their arms to pull them tight. SOunds like a modern interpretation! - Hope ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
