Re: [h-cost] slops for women?
Just an update... I've been perusing through some Google books, and found this one. A Cyclopaedia of Costume Or Dictionary of Dress... By James Robinson Planché I think you can click this and view it: http://books.google.com/books?id=f419oz-NWDgCrview=1 Page 469 includes an entry on Slops, which gives more illumination of the word with regards to women's mourning clothing. That slops were not breeches as late as the reign of Henry VII., is evident from the ordinances issued by his mother, Margaret Countess of Richmond, for the reformation of apparell for great estates of women in the tyme of mourninge, wherein the Queen's gentlewomen are directed to wear sloppes, which are explained to mean mourning cassocks for ladies and gentlewomen, not open before. In the first year of Henry VIII, also, according to Hall, upon Shrove Sunday, after a goodly banket in the Parliament Chamber at Westminster, a masque was presented in which, amongst many other fancifully attired personages (the King being one), there entered six ladies, two of whom were in garments of crymosyne and purpull, made like long slops, embroidered and fretted with golde after the antique fascion ; and over the slop was a shorte garment of cloth of golde, scant to the knee, fascioned like a tabard, c. But though they were not breeches,... There's a lot more, but that gets the drift with regards to mourning clothing. Kimiko Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] slops for women?
snip Shrove Sunday, after a goodly banket in the Parliament Chamber at Westminster, a masque was presented in which, amongst many other fancifully attired personages (the King being one), there entered six ladies, two of whom were in garments of crymosyne and purpull, made like long slops, embroidered and fretted with golde after the antique fascion ; and over the slop was a shorte garment of cloth of golde, scant to the knee, fascioned like a tabard, c. But though they were not breeches,... There's a lot more, but that gets the drift with regards to mourning clothing. Kimiko Now it really makes me want to scream Pictures! We want Pictures! since I can't visualize what they are supposed to look like. Regina ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slops for women?
Not sure whether you mean my question or Suzanne's, but I have no problem with your forwarding my original question. Allison T. On Feb 4, 2008 2:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Message: 3 Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 18:08:34 -0500 From: Susan Data-Samtak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] slops for women? To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed May I pass this question along to a a sidesaddle group on Yahoo? Susan Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark Trail by Louis L'Amour ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slops for women?
Erm, why not? But now that I've found the reference that eluded me yesterday, it may not matter. I was thinking of safeguard and according to Arnold it was an outer skirt or petticoat worn by women to protect their dress when riding. (in 'Lost from Her Majesties Back' , p. 89) So, an accessory for riding--but for the lady, not the horse. ;-) My apologies! Suzanne On Feb 4, 2008, at 1:01 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Susan Data-Samtak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: February 3, 2008 5:08:34 PM CST To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] slops for women? Reply-To: Historical Costume h-costume@mail.indra.com May I pass this question along to a a sidesaddle group on Yahoo? Susan Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark Trail by Louis L'Amour On Feb 3, 2008, at 4:29 PM, Suzanne wrote: Could it be the rug that goes under a sidesaddle to protect the gown from dirt? I believe they were sometimes made to match the gown. I'm blanking on the actual term used for it, but I know I've seen it somewhere Perhaps someone else on the list will know! Suzanne On Feb 3, 2008, at 1:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: A. Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: February 2, 2008 8:33:01 PM CST I'm reading Dress in the Court of Henry VIII and found a strange reference to slops for women on page 64. It's a description of the fabric given to some of Henry VII's female relatives to make mourning clothes for his funeral (in 1509). The author writes that Margaret Beaufort, Catherine of Aragon and Princess Mary each received 16 yards of cloth to make a mantle, surcote, kirtle, SLOPS (my emphasis) and hood. snipped I've heard of slops for men during this period, but not for women. What is the author describing? Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks in advance, Allison T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slops for women?
Let me run it by the Sidesaddle Riders Groups and see what they say. Susan Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark Trail by Louis L'Amour On Feb 4, 2008, at 7:57 PM, Suzanne wrote: Erm, why not? But now that I've found the reference that eluded me yesterday, it may not matter. I was thinking of safeguard and according to Arnold it was an outer skirt or petticoat worn by women to protect their dress when riding. (in 'Lost from Her Majesties Back' , p. 89) So, an accessory for riding--but for the lady, not the horse. ;-) My apologies! Suzanne On Feb 4, 2008, at 1:01 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Susan Data-Samtak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: February 3, 2008 5:08:34 PM CST To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] slops for women? Reply-To: Historical Costume h-costume@mail.indra.com May I pass this question along to a a sidesaddle group on Yahoo? Susan Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark Trail by Louis L'Amour On Feb 3, 2008, at 4:29 PM, Suzanne wrote: Could it be the rug that goes under a sidesaddle to protect the gown from dirt? I believe they were sometimes made to match the gown. I'm blanking on the actual term used for it, but I know I've seen it somewhere Perhaps someone else on the list will know! Suzanne On Feb 3, 2008, at 1:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: A. Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: February 2, 2008 8:33:01 PM CST I'm reading Dress in the Court of Henry VIII and found a strange reference to slops for women on page 64. It's a description of the fabric given to some of Henry VII's female relatives to make mourning clothes for his funeral (in 1509). The author writes that Margaret Beaufort, Catherine of Aragon and Princess Mary each received 16 yards of cloth to make a mantle, surcote, kirtle, SLOPS (my emphasis) and hood. snipped I've heard of slops for men during this period, but not for women. What is the author describing? Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks in advance, Allison T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slops for women?
Could it be the rug that goes under a sidesaddle to protect the gown from dirt? I believe they were sometimes made to match the gown. I'm blanking on the actual term used for it, but I know I've seen it somewhere Perhaps someone else on the list will know! Suzanne On Feb 3, 2008, at 1:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: A. Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: February 2, 2008 8:33:01 PM CST I'm reading Dress in the Court of Henry VIII and found a strange reference to slops for women on page 64. It's a description of the fabric given to some of Henry VII's female relatives to make mourning clothes for his funeral (in 1509). The author writes that Margaret Beaufort, Catherine of Aragon and Princess Mary each received 16 yards of cloth to make a mantle, surcote, kirtle, SLOPS (my emphasis) and hood. snipped I've heard of slops for men during this period, but not for women. What is the author describing? Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks in advance, Allison T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slops for women?
May I pass this question along to a a sidesaddle group on Yahoo? Susan Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark Trail by Louis L'Amour On Feb 3, 2008, at 4:29 PM, Suzanne wrote: Could it be the rug that goes under a sidesaddle to protect the gown from dirt? I believe they were sometimes made to match the gown. I'm blanking on the actual term used for it, but I know I've seen it somewhere Perhaps someone else on the list will know! Suzanne On Feb 3, 2008, at 1:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: A. Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: February 2, 2008 8:33:01 PM CST I'm reading Dress in the Court of Henry VIII and found a strange reference to slops for women on page 64. It's a description of the fabric given to some of Henry VII's female relatives to make mourning clothes for his funeral (in 1509). The author writes that Margaret Beaufort, Catherine of Aragon and Princess Mary each received 16 yards of cloth to make a mantle, surcote, kirtle, SLOPS (my emphasis) and hood. snipped I've heard of slops for men during this period, but not for women. What is the author describing? Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks in advance, Allison T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] slops for women?
I'm reading Dress in the Court of Henry VIII and found a strange reference to slops for women on page 64. It's a description of the fabric given to some of Henry VII's female relatives to make mourning clothes for his funeral (in 1509). The author writes that Margaret Beaufort, Catherine of Aragon and Princess Mary each received 16 yards of cloth to make a mantle, surcote, kirtle, SLOPS (my emphasis) and hood. A similar reference is made on p. 65 that Elizabeth of York's sister had a slop made as part of her mourning gear (along with mantle, sircote, kirtle, hood) for Elizabeth's funeral (1503). I've heard of slops for men during this period, but not for women. What is the author describing? Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks in advance, Allison T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slops for women?
Greetings Allison, I glossed right over that list, so thank you for bringing it to my attention. Two thoughts I have on slops. One is that further down the same paragraph they note that both Catherine and Mary are riding horses, since they get special pillions saddles. Perhaps the slops were for when they are riding their horses? The other item is in the back of the book, Glossary, pg 435 SLOP loose breeches or hose with wide legs; a cloak or nightgown. I think in the situation given, perhaps this time the slops refer to a type of cloak? Not really positive, and perhaps more info will come around further into the book when they discuss women's clothing. And while I read the women's section a bit, I jumped around. Right now I am deep into Henry VIII's clothing section, after having finished the black garments of his father. Man Henry VII and his family wore a lot of black garments! Kimiko --- A. Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm reading Dress in the Court of Henry VIII and found a strange reference to slops for women on page 64. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slops for women?
No, let them eat steaks like the rest of us do, -C. This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
