Re: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM
There is nothing wrong with either DSM nor Cache. Both are strictly within the ANSI standard M. They both respond with exactly the same results. DSM executes the line and thus the variable is UNDEF after executing the line of code as it should. Cache does so also. On my system, it shows me that Cache puts me in debug mode after executing the line. VAHK A N A S A=100 VAH 1S1W A 100 VAH 1S1Q VAHW A W A ^ UNDEFINED VAH - Original Message - From: Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Hardhats hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 11:36 AM Subject: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM A co-worker just pointed out the following oddity that occurs in DSM, but not in Cache: N A S A=100 W A 100 N A S A=100 W A %DSM-E-UNDEF, undefined variable A -DSM-I-ECODE, MUMPS error code: M6 Reviewing sections 7.1.2.2 and 8.2.14 of the standard, it's not clear to me that the scoping rules in programmer mode are clearly defined. A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. --Benjamin Disraeli Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM
Greg; There were numerous places that the MDC was intentionally vauge and a lot of places the MDC was too tight on the definitions. Both approaches seem perfectly standard. It was up to the vendor what state the user is left in. - Original Message - From: Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM --- steven mcphelan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is nothing wrong with either DSM nor Cache. Both are strictly within the ANSI standard M. I agree. I hope no one intepreted my message as a criticism of Cache, DSM, GTM, or any other platform. That was not my point. They both respond with exactly the same results. DSM executes the line and thus the variable is UNDEF after executing the line of code as it should. Good point! The 1S1 prompt does indicate debug mode. But my point was that I don't believe the standard says one way or another what should happen in this case. To be honest, I'm so busy right now that I was only able to skim the relevant sections. I hope to go through them in more detail a soon as I get the chance. A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. --Benjamin Disraeli Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM
FWIW, I've got to concur about DSM. I've been brought in several times to deal with the vendor(s) when the implementations have been found to work differently. In each case, I've found that was DSM that has followed the standard. Chuck On Mar 10, 2005, at 11:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...why is the oddity in DSM? In the past I have discovered instances in which DSM was the only implementation of M in which the standard was correctly implemented. The 'oddity' was in all the other systems. Go figure ??? Not having a standard document at hand, I am wondering where in the standard is the 'programmer mode' mentioned at all. Regards, Richard. From: Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/03/10 Thu PM 04:36:15 GMT To: Hardhats hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM A co-worker just pointed out the following oddity that occurs in DSM, but not in Cache: N A S A=100 W A 100 N A S A=100 W A %DSM-E-UNDEF, undefined variable A -DSM-I-ECODE, MUMPS error code: M6 Reviewing sections 7.1.2.2 and 8.2.14 of the standard, it's not clear to me that the scoping rules in programmer mode are clearly defined. A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. --Benjamin Disraeli Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM
...why is the oddity in DSM? In the past I have discovered instances in which DSM was the only implementation of M in which the standard was correctly implemented. The 'oddity' was in all the other systems. Go figure ??? Not having a standard document at hand, I am wondering where in the standard is the 'programmer mode' mentioned at all. Regards, Richard. From: Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/03/10 Thu PM 04:36:15 GMT To: Hardhats hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM A co-worker just pointed out the following oddity that occurs in DSM, but not in Cache: N A S A=100 W A 100 N A S A=100 W A %DSM-E-UNDEF, undefined variable A -DSM-I-ECODE, MUMPS error code: M6 Reviewing sections 7.1.2.2 and 8.2.14 of the standard, it's not clear to me that the scoping rules in programmer mode are clearly defined. A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. --Benjamin Disraeli Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM
Fair enough. By oddity I meant something that is different. I am NOT claiming that one implementation or the other is correct -- only that they are dfifferent. If there's room for intetrpretation here, that's at least food for thought when we consider reconstituting the MDC. Personally, I *LIKE* the ability to NEW variables in programmer mode when trying things out or making calls to other APIs. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...why is the oddity in DSM? In the past I have discovered instances in which DSM was the only implementation of M in which the standard was correctly implemented. The 'oddity' was in all the other systems. Go figure ??? Not having a standard document at hand, I am wondering where in the standard is the 'programmer mode' mentioned at all. Regards, Richard. From: Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/03/10 Thu PM 04:36:15 GMT To: Hardhats hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM A co-worker just pointed out the following oddity that occurs in DSM, but not in Cache: N A S A=100 W A 100 N A S A=100 W A %DSM-E-UNDEF, undefined variable A -DSM-I-ECODE, MUMPS error code: M6 Reviewing sections 7.1.2.2 and 8.2.14 of the standard, it's not clear to me that the scoping rules in programmer mode are clearly defined. A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. --Benjamin Disraeli Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. --Benjamin Disraeli Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM
My co-worker (I'll have to try and entice him to join the list!) also pointed out that you can QUIT out of different levels in Cache to achieve the same effect. Again, my point is not to say that one platform is better or worse than the other, only to point out the implementation difference. Personally, I think programmer mode ought to be in the standard -- but what does this mean for compiled platforms like GT.M? --- Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fair enough. By oddity I meant something that is different. I am NOT claiming that one implementation or the other is correct -- only that they are dfifferent. If there's room for intetrpretation here, that's at least food for thought when we consider reconstituting the MDC. Personally, I *LIKE* the ability to NEW variables in programmer mode when trying things out or making calls to other APIs. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...why is the oddity in DSM? In the past I have discovered instances in which DSM was the only implementation of M in which the standard was correctly implemented. The 'oddity' was in all the other systems. Go figure ??? Not having a standard document at hand, I am wondering where in the standard is the 'programmer mode' mentioned at all. Regards, Richard. From: Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/03/10 Thu PM 04:36:15 GMT To: Hardhats hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM A co-worker just pointed out the following oddity that occurs in DSM, but not in Cache: N A S A=100 W A 100 N A S A=100 W A %DSM-E-UNDEF, undefined variable A -DSM-I-ECODE, MUMPS error code: M6 Reviewing sections 7.1.2.2 and 8.2.14 of the standard, it's not clear to me that the scoping rules in programmer mode are clearly defined. A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. --Benjamin Disraeli Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. --Benjamin Disraeli Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. --Benjamin Disraeli Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM
On Thu, 2005-03-10 at 09:23 -0800, Greg Woodhouse wrote: My co-worker (I'll have to try and entice him to join the list!) also pointed out that you can QUIT out of different levels in Cache to achieve the same effect. Again, my point is not to say that one platform is better or worse than the other, only to point out the implementation difference. Personally, I think programmer mode ought to be in the standard -- but what does this mean for compiled platforms like GT.M? I am not sure what you mean by compiled platforms like GT.M. It has a direct or interactive mode: bhaskark ~ 12:26pm 468: mumps -dir GTMN A S A=100 W A 100 GTMN A S A=200 GTMW A 200 GTMH bhaskark ~ 12:27pm 469: -- Bhaskar --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM
I was unsure of what rules might apply to symbol table management in direct mode. It occured to me that the difference between Cache on and DSM could have been driven either by the desire to provide a new feature (not tying variable scope to line structure in programmer mode) or implementation considerations. --- Bhaskar, KS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2005-03-10 at 09:23 -0800, Greg Woodhouse wrote: My co-worker (I'll have to try and entice him to join the list!) also pointed out that you can QUIT out of different levels in Cache to achieve the same effect. Again, my point is not to say that one platform is better or worse than the other, only to point out the implementation difference. Personally, I think programmer mode ought to be in the standard -- but what does this mean for compiled platforms like GT.M? I am not sure what you mean by compiled platforms like GT.M. It has a direct or interactive mode: bhaskark ~ 12:26pm 468: mumps -dir GTMN A S A=100 W A 100 GTMN A S A=200 GTMW A 200 GTMH bhaskark ~ 12:27pm 469: -- Bhaskar --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. --Benjamin Disraeli Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM
For what it's worth, in this case, MSM behaves the same as DSM. The programmer's shell Xecutes the command line, so of course, the implicit QUIT at the end of the line unstacks NEW'd variables. I like this feature because sometimes I want to save all variables while I DO something and then come back to examine local variables or resume some process. - Original Message - From: Bhaskar, KS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Another oddity - scope of NEW in DSM On Thu, 2005-03-10 at 09:23 -0800, Greg Woodhouse wrote: My co-worker (I'll have to try and entice him to join the list!) also pointed out that you can QUIT out of different levels in Cache to achieve the same effect. Again, my point is not to say that one platform is better or worse than the other, only to point out the implementation difference. Personally, I think programmer mode ought to be in the standard -- but what does this mean for compiled platforms like GT.M? I am not sure what you mean by compiled platforms like GT.M. It has a direct or interactive mode: bhaskark ~ 12:26pm 468: mumps -dir GTMN A S A=100 W A 100 GTMN A S A=200 GTMW A 200 GTMH bhaskark ~ 12:27pm 469: -- Bhaskar --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95alloc_id396op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
