Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
If you want to know what happened in WQashington State contact Steve Pence at DSHS or some of the other harahts who are at Washington State dept of Social and Health Services. The DSHS adopted DHCP in 1988 at the time of the SEattle MUG Meeting through the FOIA process for its mental Health Fcailities and Prisons. Another contact would be Walt Biggs who has worked with that system ar Eastern State Hosp. It takes much work to install an EHR in any enterprise, as the comments in other hardhats messages about the UK reveal. Think Zachman Framework and lots of education becuase Its not the Way we've always Done IT and chnaging that is more than loading a code file - which should not be surprising to any of the old hardhats. That situation just highlights the task of WV (and CMS) in dveloping a productive approach. Arden W. Forrey PhD Dept of Restorative Dentistry University of Washington School of Dentistry 206-616-1875 Phone 206-543-7783 FAX On Mon, 4 Jul 2005, chuck5566 wrote: Isn't VistA being used by state hospitals in Washington State? (http://www.hardhats.org/adopters/vista_adopters.html) I wonder what changes they made? On Jul 3, 2005, at 3:41 PM, Todd Berman wrote: On Sun, 2005-07-03 at 13:20 -0700, Gregory Woodhouse wrote: Have you ever considered what would happen if you tried to put a dollar figure on the amount of effort that is expended right here on this list in trying to make Vista work in a non-VA setting? That effort is not free, and any effort to evaluate the cost effectiveness of Vista as a solution needs to take that into account. Note that I am NOT saying that Vista isn't a cost effective alternative, only that we have a tendency to (sometimes considerably) underestimate how much it costs to implement Vista in a new environment. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Design quality doesn't ensure success, but design failure can ensure failure. --Kent Beck Yes, absolutely it is not free. But it is a one-time sunk cost. Well, in theory. There appears to be three types of work in making VistA work in a non-VA setting. #1) Writing code to remove certain VA assumptions that are not as needed outside of the VA, like Agent Orange stuff, changing from using SSN as a MRN to a more realistic MRN. #2) Writing code to interface with existing systems that you see in a real 'in-the-wild' system. #3) Writing code to provide functionality that is not as important in the VA systems, like pediatrics, etc. All 3 of those are one-time costs, absolutely #1 and #3. #2 is interesting, because it is a lot of different sunk costs, as you have to interface with nearly limit-less potential number and combination of systems. However, this can be solved on a system by system basis. Not attempting to marginalize the effort, just making sure it is stated that these are things that have to be done regardless, and once finished, benefit everyone multiple times. --Todd --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
I found this statement about half-way into this document http://www1.va.gov/vhaitsharing/docs/VA_Health_Information_Sharing_White_Paper_v3.doc The Bureau of Prisons, within the Department of Justice, also implemented the DHCP/VistA system in the 1980s but recently replaced it with a COTS product. I couldn't find any references to what that product is. However the document did help with the complex history of information sharing. Also very helpful with defining the myriad of acronyms (VANTS),(NPRC),(ISIL)(LDSI) (FHCRS) (GCPR)(RPMS) etc.. Nancy Anthracite wrote: I just got told that the DOJ may have adopted VistA for the Bureau of Prisons some years ago. Does anyone know if it happened and if worked out OK or not? --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
I bet they did not keep it patched or it would be difficult to believe they would replace it. But, you never know about what happens to our tax dollars! On Monday 04 July 2005 02:49 am, Ismet Kursunoglu wrote: I found this statement about half-way into this document http://www1.va.gov/vhaitsharing/docs/VA_Health_Information_Sharing_White_Pa per_v3.doc The Bureau of Prisons, within the Department of Justice, also implemented the DHCP/VistA system in the 1980s but recently replaced it with a COTS product. I couldn't find any references to what that product is. However the document did help with the complex history of information sharing. Also very helpful with defining the myriad of acronyms (VANTS),(NPRC),(ISIL)(LDSI) (FHCRS) (GCPR)(RPMS) etc.. Nancy Anthracite wrote: I just got told that the DOJ may have adopted VistA for the Bureau of Prisons some years ago. Does anyone know if it happened and if worked out OK or not? -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
That could be. Keeping Vista patched is, frankly, a pain in the neck, and a process requiring a certain level of knowledge of Vista, as well. But while i agree that this may be a factor, I would suspect that a more significant factor is a mismatch between what the system offers (or, perhaps, what the users are aware that it offers), and user expectations for such a system. Vista is certainly powerful, but that doesn't mean it is automatically a good match for a particular user. Perhaps a question that should be asked here is: How can the needs and concerns of people who don't find Vista a good match be better addressed? === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance. --Will Durant On Jul 4, 2005, at 7:13 AM, Nancy Anthracite wrote: I bet they did not keep it patched or it would be difficult to believe they would replace it. But, you never know about what happens to our tax dollars! On Monday 04 July 2005 02:49 am, Ismet Kursunoglu wrote: I found this statement about half-way into this document http://www1.va.gov/vhaitsharing/docs/ VA_Health_Information_Sharing_White_Pa per_v3.doc The Bureau of Prisons, within the Department of Justice, also implemented the DHCP/VistA system in the 1980s but recently replaced it with a COTS product. I couldn't find any references to what that product is. However the document did help with the complex history of information sharing. Also very helpful with defining the myriad of acronyms (VANTS),(NPRC),(ISIL)(LDSI) (FHCRS) (GCPR)(RPMS) etc.. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
As a result, transferring large volumes of data from one prison to another is nearly impossible, the department's experts said. Most medical records are on paper, and when inmates are moved, their records sometimes fail to catch up. Thus prison officials often have to make decisions without complete data on inmates' records, medical conditions and special needs. The officials said that building an adequate computer system could cost well over $100 million and take at least five more years. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/07/03/MNGLMDIMOT1.DTL --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
Have you called them to let them know about VistA yet? ;-) On Sunday 03 July 2005 08:01 am, Ismet Kursunoglu wrote: As a result, transferring large volumes of data from one prison to another is nearly impossible, the department's experts said. Most medical records are on paper, and when inmates are moved, their records sometimes fail to catch up. Thus prison officials often have to make decisions without complete data on inmates' records, medical conditions and special needs. The officials said that building an adequate computer system could cost well over $100 million and take at least five more years. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/07/03/MNGLMDIMOT1. DTL --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
On Sunday 03 July 2005 08:01 am, Ismet Kursunoglu wrote: As a result, transferring large volumes of data from one prison to another is nearly impossible, the department's experts said. Most medical records are on paper, and when inmates are moved, their records sometimes fail to catch up. Thus prison officials often have to make decisions without complete data on inmates' records, medical conditions and special needs. The officials said that building an adequate computer system could cost well over $100 million and take at least five more years. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/07/03/MNGLMDIMOT1. DTL --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
Well... we might not have to contact anyone according to this! But as bad as it sounds, if one could make the case to the judge, this might be a very good opportunity for VistA. http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/12031739.htm With the toll of preventable deaths mounting weekly, an alarmed federal judge Thursday seized control of California's woefully inadequate prison health care system to ensure that inmates receive the care they're guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution. It is the most sweeping federal takeover of a prison health care system in the nation's history. Have you called them to let them know about VistA yet? ;-) On Sunday 03 July 2005 08:01 am, Ismet Kursunoglu wrote: As a result, transferring large volumes of data from one prison to another is nearly impossible, the department's experts said. Most medical records are on paper, and when inmates are moved, their records sometimes fail to catch up. Thus prison officials often have to make decisions without complete data on inmates' records, medical conditions and special needs. The officials said that building an adequate computer system could cost well over $100 million and take at least five more years. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/07/03/MNGLMDIMOT1. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
Have you ever considered what would happen if you tried to put a dollar figure on the amount of effort that is expended right here on this list in trying to make Vista work in a non-VA setting? That effort is not free, and any effort to evaluate the cost effectiveness of Vista as a solution needs to take that into account. Note that I am NOT saying that Vista isn't a cost effective alternative, only that we have a tendency to (sometimes considerably) underestimate how much it costs to implement Vista in a new environment. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Design quality doesn't ensure success, but design failure can ensure failure. --Kent Beck On Jul 3, 2005, at 11:59 AM, Ismet Kursunoglu wrote: Well... we might not have to contact anyone according to this! But as bad as it sounds, if one could make the case to the judge, this might be a very good opportunity for VistA. http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/12031739.htm With the toll of preventable deaths mounting weekly, an alarmed federal judge Thursday seized control of California's woefully inadequate prison health care system to ensure that inmates receive the care they're guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution. It is the most sweeping federal takeover of a prison health care system in the nation's history. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
On Sun, 2005-07-03 at 13:20 -0700, Gregory Woodhouse wrote: Have you ever considered what would happen if you tried to put a dollar figure on the amount of effort that is expended right here on this list in trying to make Vista work in a non-VA setting? That effort is not free, and any effort to evaluate the cost effectiveness of Vista as a solution needs to take that into account. Note that I am NOT saying that Vista isn't a cost effective alternative, only that we have a tendency to (sometimes considerably) underestimate how much it costs to implement Vista in a new environment. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Design quality doesn't ensure success, but design failure can ensure failure. --Kent Beck Yes, absolutely it is not free. But it is a one-time sunk cost. Well, in theory. There appears to be three types of work in making VistA work in a non-VA setting. #1) Writing code to remove certain VA assumptions that are not as needed outside of the VA, like Agent Orange stuff, changing from using SSN as a MRN to a more realistic MRN. #2) Writing code to interface with existing systems that you see in a real 'in-the-wild' system. #3) Writing code to provide functionality that is not as important in the VA systems, like pediatrics, etc. All 3 of those are one-time costs, absolutely #1 and #3. #2 is interesting, because it is a lot of different sunk costs, as you have to interface with nearly limit-less potential number and combination of systems. However, this can be solved on a system by system basis. Not attempting to marginalize the effort, just making sure it is stated that these are things that have to be done regardless, and once finished, benefit everyone multiple times. --Todd --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
Greg, Your point is quite valid, and hits to the heart of where we are headed. One of WorldVistA's primary objectives is to make VistA more user friendly. And, in this case user includes installer, maintainer, etc. It may never be as simple as click on SETUP, but we all know it can be a great deal easier than it is now. This list and its archives have help many do battle with VistA, and this paves the way toward a better, friendlier VistA. Eventually, there will be a VistA that can be easily installed and configured; a VistA that is fully documented on the Web; a VistA that is evolving with input from around the globe. The coming months hold great promise with VistA-Office EHR and OpenVistA 4.0 both in the works. Talks with the VA about joint efforts and several international projects underway or being studied are further proof that, slow is it may be, progress is being made. Your efforts and those of many others are part of this progress. - Original Message - From: Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR Have you ever considered what would happen if you tried to put a dollar figure on the amount of effort that is expended right here on this list in trying to make Vista work in a non-VA setting? That effort is not free, and any effort to evaluate the cost effectiveness of Vista as a solution needs to take that into account. Note that I am NOT saying that Vista isn't a cost effective alternative, only that we have a tendency to (sometimes considerably) underestimate how much it costs to implement Vista in a new environment. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77alloc_id492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
I missed this part... http://www.insidebayarea.com/dailyreview/localnews/ci_2834843 SAN FRANCISCO — A federal judge seized control of medical care in California's prisons Thursday, deciding to appoint a receiver to overhaul a $1.1 billion system in which an inmate needlessly dies every week on average. More details of this here. http://www.marinij.com/california/ci_2835129 Certainly a good opportunity to put forth alternative solutions. Gregory Woodhouse wrote: Have you ever considered what would happen if you tried to put a dollar figure on the amount of effort that is expended right here on this list --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77alloc_id492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] California's Prisons lack EMR
I just got told that the DOJ may have adopted VistA for the Bureau of Prisons some years ago. Does anyone know if it happened and if worked out OK or not? On Sunday 03 July 2005 05:10 pm, Ismet Kursunoglu wrote: I missed this part... http://www.insidebayarea.com/dailyreview/localnews/ci_2834843 SAN FRANCISCO — A federal judge seized control of medical care in California's prisons Thursday, deciding to appoint a receiver to overhaul a $1.1 billion system in which an inmate needlessly dies every week on average. More details of this here. http://www.marinij.com/california/ci_2835129 Certainly a good opportunity to put forth alternative solutions. Gregory Woodhouse wrote: Have you ever considered what would happen if you tried to put a dollar figure on the amount of effort that is expended right here on this list --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77alloc_id492op=Click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77alloc_id492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
