Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 16:59, Jason Dusek jason.du...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? We (typLAB) use Haskell. There's four of us, but only two actually program Haskell, and not exclusively. We also use Javascript in the browser (though we use functional programming techniques there as well). Erik ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
Hear hear. But a few successful happstack private sector startups could change that... 2010/2/10 Jason Dusek jason.du...@gmail.com: 2010/02/10 Roderick Ford develo...@live.com: A U.S. president would probably subsidize such a job-creating endeavor too! The US government generally subsidizes these kinds of things through DoD spending (and a few NSF grants). That is probably hard to get into. -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
Although I'm fond of Haskell, in practice I am not a Haskell programmer -- I'm paid for Ruby and Bourne shell programming. Many of the jobs posted on this list end up being jobs for people who appreciate Haskell but will work in C# or O'Caml or some-such. I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
I do. On Feb 10, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Jason Dusek wrote: Although I'm fond of Haskell, in practice I am not a Haskell programmer -- I'm paid for Ruby and Bourne shell programming. Many of the jobs posted on this list end up being jobs for people who appreciate Haskell but will work in C# or O'Caml or some-such. I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Jason Dusek jason.du...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? While I don't suspect the number is large at the moment, the same thing could have been said several years ago of the language I use at my current job and used at my last job: Python. I get the same industrial incubation period vibe (for lack of a better term) from Haskell that I once got from Python -- although perhaps I'm biased in that I simply *like* these languages, too. :p ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
I used Haskell for some Research Development work at Deutsche Bahn, earlier. (But my program was not integrated with their other systems.) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
Not using it yet, but there's been a large amount of interest and willingness to work with it from management. We're contractors, so it depends on us finding some one who will allow us to use the language or asks for it explicitly. On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Jason Dusek jason.du...@gmail.com wrote: Although I'm fond of Haskell, in practice I am not a Haskell programmer -- I'm paid for Ruby and Bourne shell programming. Many of the jobs posted on this list end up being jobs for people who appreciate Haskell but will work in C# or O'Caml or some-such. I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
Using it at the day job currently... like I need to get back to it. On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 8:22 AM, John Van Enk vane...@gmail.com wrote: Not using it yet, but there's been a large amount of interest and willingness to work with it from management. We're contractors, so it depends on us finding some one who will allow us to use the language or asks for it explicitly. On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Jason Dusek jason.du...@gmail.comwrote: Although I'm fond of Haskell, in practice I am not a Haskell programmer -- I'm paid for Ruby and Bourne shell programming. Many of the jobs posted on this list end up being jobs for people who appreciate Haskell but will work in C# or O'Caml or some-such. I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? I suppose you're implying non-academic jobs by that statement, but most of the people in my research group develop programs in Haskell on a daily basis. You'll find a number of libraries on Hackage from us. http://www.cs.uu.nl/staff/cur/IDX/sds.html As a shameless plug, I will also add that we have a great master's program in which you can get your fill of Haskell and compilers, among other things. http://www.cs.uu.nl/wiki/Master/ As second (but related) shameless plug, we also have a two-week-long summer school which is an excellent way to jump-start the above master's program or to get quickly up to speed on Haskell for business or pleasure. The course is in August, and the deadline is May 1. http://www.utrechtsummerschool.nl/index.php?type=coursescode=H9 Regards, Sean ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
Hello Jason, Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 6:59:42 PM, you wrote: I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? i work on commercial program. once it will start selling, i will publish here the story -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:bulat.zigans...@gmail.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
2010/02/10 Tom Tobin korp...@korpios.com: On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Jason Dusek jason.du...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? While I don't suspect the number is large at the moment, the same thing could have been said several years ago of the language I use at my current job and used at my last job: Python. I get the same industrial incubation period vibe (for lack of a better term) from Haskell that I once got from Python -- although perhaps I'm biased in that I simply *like* these languages, too. :p I completely agree. I'm just trying to figure out where on the growth curve we are :) I am also interested in what industries tend to aggregate Haskell programmers. Within the Bay Area webosphere, Haskell is not much liked though Scala is gaining some traction. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that web programming is very much a let's go shopping kind of discipline -- no point in troubling oneself over correctness when the users haven't weighed in on the worth of your site. Of course this attitude leads to a long maintenance phase of Crazy Stuff®, like writing a PHP compiler; but by then you have piles of money to throw at the problem! Such is the theory, anyways. -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
I think this has a lot to do with the fact that web programming is very much a let's go shopping kind of discipline -- no point in troubling oneself over correctness when the users haven't weighed in on the worth of your site. Of course this attitude leads to a long maintenance phase of Crazy Stuff®, like writing a PHP compiler; but by then you have piles of money to throw at the problem! Such is the theory, anyways. Or have sold your startup to some other company. Matthias. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
Jason Dusek wrote: Although I'm fond of Haskell, in practice I am not a Haskell programmer -- I'm paid for Ruby and Bourne shell programming. Many of the jobs posted on this list end up being jobs for people who appreciate Haskell but will work in C# or O'Caml or some-such. I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? I usually estimate the answer to this question by looking up how many employees WellTyped.com and Galois.com have between them, under the simplifying assumption that the number of other people using Haskell is probably so utterly insignificant that it doesn't matter. I'd love to see Haskell become popular, but it doesn't seem to be in any rush to happen just yet. (Then again, I gather 10 years ago things were far, far worse than they are today...) Some people (especially C programmers) have tried to tell me that Haskell is too slow. Others have claimed it's too incomprehensible. People inherantly thing sequentially, not set-theoretically they say. (Last time I checked, nobody's complaining about SQL being unintuitive...) People don't think recursively is another commonly-sited objection. Still others point out that Haskell is a *pure* functional language, and all the most popular languages are hybrids. Eiffel is a pure-OO language, but the hybrids like Java and C++ far vastly more popular. I myself might point out the comparative immaturity of things on Windows (the single biggest target platform on the market), and the rough edges on tools like Darcs, Haddock and Cabal. If enough people become interested, all these things could (and hopefully would) be fixed. It's a question of whether we reach the necessary critical mass or not... ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Jason Dusek jason.du...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? Roel and I use Haskell at work. We develop embedded software in Haskell (not real-time) that controls a scientific instrument. We will probably write something more detailed about this project some time from now. regards, Roel and Bas van Dijk ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
In my previous job, which recently ended, we used Haskell for at least half of our code, and most of our core stuff. I ended up writing a lot of Java, too, but you take the good, you take the bad. -James On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Jason Dusek jason.du...@gmail.com wrote: Although I'm fond of Haskell, in practice I am not a Haskell programmer -- I'm paid for Ruby and Bourne shell programming. Many of the jobs posted on this list end up being jobs for people who appreciate Haskell but will work in C# or O'Caml or some-such. I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
jason.dusek: Although I'm fond of Haskell, in practice I am not a Haskell programmer -- I'm paid for Ruby and Bourne shell programming. Many of the jobs posted on this list end up being jobs for people who appreciate Haskell but will work in C# or O'Caml or some-such. I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? Galois is a 100% Haskell shop, and we're around 40 people now - not all are engineers though. At the Commercial Users of FP workshop this year, when asked to raise their hands what FP languages people used at work, the majority of the room (60 people? / 120 in the room -- check the video) said they'd used Haskell at work. More than any of the other FP langs present (we also asked about Erlang, OCaml, Scheme, F#). -- Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
v.dijk.bas: On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Jason Dusek jason.du...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? Roel and I use Haskell at work. We develop embedded software in Haskell (not real-time) that controls a scientific instrument. We will probably write something more detailed about this project some time from now. This is a great thread. Perhaps more users could add their details to http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry and consider presenting at CUFP this year. http://cufp.galois.com (new website to be launched soon!) -- Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Don Stewart d...@galois.com wrote: ... Perhaps more users could add their details to http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry ... done ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
RE: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
We could/should probably all just start our own collective (corporate) entity to produce software, based on the premises that 1) software built with Haskell will be more robust, and 2) software built by developers who have an affinity and aptitude for this language will tend to write better software. When the products themselves gain a positive reputation with the general public, then the corporation itself and those invested will benefit. cheers heard across the world A U.S. president would probably subsidize such a job-creating endeavor too! Nay-sayers are probably predominately composed of those who do not understand it or its benefits. Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:26:22 + From: andrewcop...@btinternet.com To: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there? Jason Dusek wrote: Although I'm fond of Haskell, in practice I am not a Haskell programmer -- I'm paid for Ruby and Bourne shell programming. Many of the jobs posted on this list end up being jobs for people who appreciate Haskell but will work in C# or O'Caml or some-such. I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? I usually estimate the answer to this question by looking up how many employees WellTyped.com and Galois.com have between them, under the simplifying assumption that the number of other people using Haskell is probably so utterly insignificant that it doesn't matter. I'd love to see Haskell become popular, but it doesn't seem to be in any rush to happen just yet. (Then again, I gather 10 years ago things were far, far worse than they are today...) Some people (especially C programmers) have tried to tell me that Haskell is too slow. Others have claimed it's too incomprehensible. People inherantly thing sequentially, not set-theoretically they say. (Last time I checked, nobody's complaining about SQL being unintuitive...) People don't think recursively is another commonly-sited objection. Still others point out that Haskell is a *pure* functional language, and all the most popular languages are hybrids. Eiffel is a pure-OO language, but the hybrids like Java and C++ far vastly more popular. I myself might point out the comparative immaturity of things on Windows (the single biggest target platform on the market), and the rough edges on tools like Darcs, Haddock and Cabal. If enough people become interested, all these things could (and hopefully would) be fixed. It's a question of whether we reach the necessary critical mass or not... ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
consider presenting at CUFP this year Any word on when this will be? On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Don Stewart d...@galois.com wrote: v.dijk.bas: On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Jason Dusek jason.du...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder how many people actually write Haskell, principally or exclusively, at work? Roel and I use Haskell at work. We develop embedded software in Haskell (not real-time) that controls a scientific instrument. We will probably write something more detailed about this project some time from now. This is a great thread. Perhaps more users could add their details to http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry and consider presenting at CUFP this year. http://cufp.galois.com (new website to be launched soon!) -- Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
2010/02/10 Roderick Ford develo...@live.com: A U.S. president would probably subsidize such a job-creating endeavor too! The US government generally subsidizes these kinds of things through DoD spending (and a few NSF grants). That is probably hard to get into. -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?
John Van Enk: consider presenting at CUFP this year Any word on when this will be? It'll be before or after (I suspect the later) ICFP http://www.icfpconference.org/icfp2010/, which is September 27-29 in Baltimore, Maryland. Manuel ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
