Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Paper draft: "Denotational design with type class morphisms"
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Achim Schneider wrote: > Robin Green wrote: > > > On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:17:14 +0100 > > Achim Schneider wrote: > > > > > Conal Elliott wrote: > > > > > > > DRAFT version ___ comments please > > > > > > > Conal, please, PLEASE, never, EVER again use the word "meaning" if > > > you actually mean "denotation". It confuses the hell out of me, > > > especially the (I guess unintended) connotation that you analyse > > > the meaning of a particular instance's existence on a cosmic scale. > > > > It shouldn't confuse you. Using "means" for "denotes", and likewise > > "meaning" for "denotation", is correct English, and very common usage > > too. > > > (length . denotations) "to mean" > (length . denotations) "to denote" > > (read: "to denote" is more defined than "to mean") > > Following your argument through, we should talk kinda like "hey, we do > something with that thingy to do that-other thingy to that thingy > over there". 99% of my former teachers would tear you to shreds... in > mid-air (during lift-off). > > I can't talk about the whole of English usage, but I never saw > "meaning" in a mathematical context where "denotation" would work, too, > except in Conal's writings. > > > ...and that doesn't even include that my native language isn't English > but German, in which "to mean" nounificates using another object: > It translates to "Opinion" instead of "Denotation". > "deuten" (to intepret, to point) is a very well-defined concept in > German and doesn't like to be messed with. > The distinction is very clear in technical English but often disregarded in ordinary speech. http://consc.net/papers/intension.html is very informative. -gregg, your faithful half-baked philosophaster ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Paper draft: "Denotational design with type class morphisms"
Robin Green wrote: > On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:17:14 +0100 > Achim Schneider wrote: > > > Conal Elliott wrote: > > > > > DRAFT version ___ comments please > > > > > Conal, please, PLEASE, never, EVER again use the word "meaning" if > > you actually mean "denotation". It confuses the hell out of me, > > especially the (I guess unintended) connotation that you analyse > > the meaning of a particular instance's existence on a cosmic scale. > > It shouldn't confuse you. Using "means" for "denotes", and likewise > "meaning" for "denotation", is correct English, and very common usage > too. > (length . denotations) "to mean" > (length . denotations) "to denote" (read: "to denote" is more defined than "to mean") Following your argument through, we should talk kinda like "hey, we do something with that thingy to do that-other thingy to that thingy over there". 99% of my former teachers would tear you to shreds... in mid-air (during lift-off). I can't talk about the whole of English usage, but I never saw "meaning" in a mathematical context where "denotation" would work, too, except in Conal's writings. ...and that doesn't even include that my native language isn't English but German, in which "to mean" nounificates using another object: It translates to "Opinion" instead of "Denotation". "deuten" (to intepret, to point) is a very well-defined concept in German and doesn't like to be messed with. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved. Copying, hiring, renting, performance and/or quoting of this signature prohibited. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Paper draft: "Denotational design with type class morphisms"
* Achim Schneider [2009-02-20 15:17:14 +0100]: > Conal Elliott wrote: > > > DRAFT version ___ comments please > > > Conal, please, PLEASE, never, EVER again use the word "meaning" if you > actually mean "denotation". It confuses the hell out of me, especially > the (I guess unintended) connotation that you analyse the meaning of a > particular instance's existence on a cosmic scale. > Please. These things have neither purpose in life nor has their life > any meaning, they just bleeding denote things. The use of "meaning" in "meaning of life" is figurative / metaphorical, not literal; the literal meaning...uh...denotation is pretty much the same as what "denotation" means...uh...denotes. -- mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Paper draft: "Denotational design with type class morphisms"
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:17:14 +0100 Achim Schneider wrote: > Conal Elliott wrote: > > > DRAFT version ___ comments please > > > Conal, please, PLEASE, never, EVER again use the word "meaning" if you > actually mean "denotation". It confuses the hell out of me, especially > the (I guess unintended) connotation that you analyse the meaning of a > particular instance's existence on a cosmic scale. It shouldn't confuse you. Using "means" for "denotes", and likewise "meaning" for "denotation", is correct English, and very common usage too. -- Robin ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Paper draft: "Denotational design with type class morphisms"
Conal Elliott wrote: > DRAFT version ___ comments please > Conal, please, PLEASE, never, EVER again use the word "meaning" if you actually mean "denotation". It confuses the hell out of me, especially the (I guess unintended) connotation that you analyse the meaning of a particular instance's existence on a cosmic scale. Please. These things have neither purpose in life nor has their life any meaning, they just bleeding denote things. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved. Copying, hiring, renting, performance and/or quoting of this signature prohibited. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
