Re: [Hibernate] Please help keep JIRA clean! (comment for issue HHH-1005)
Gavin King wrote: Guys, I’d like to request that everyone here pitch in and be a bit more aggressive about closing off useless JIRA issues. JIRA is absolutely no use to us if it is clogged up with thousands of issues that no-one is going to look at in the next two years! Remember, JIRA is for **our benefit as developers**, it is **not** there to allow users to escalate problems they are having in the forum, or to give them an outlet for nagging/whinging. If an issue report is not serving a useful purpose for us (ie, we will actually get round to **fixing** the issue sometime in the next year) then it should be immediately closed. It is otherwise extremely difficult to get a handle upon what is the overall status of the project in terms of known bugs, and high priority new features. Thanks. Gavin Doesn't JIRA has a LATER or REMIND state for these kind of issues? The fact that you are rejecting an issue, without giving proper consideration (I'm pretty sure you haven't) doesn't mean that the issue must be stored and forgotten. Remember that we - developers - are contributors as well as users. We contribute with our testing, ideas, patches, code, etc. A JIRA resolution must have a good reason to be! Any open source project works that way and I don't see why do you insist of treating developers as naggers or beggers. Now, I apologize for cloning the issue. I just found it rude and inconsiderate for a commiter to close an issue without giving a proper commentary. HHH-1005 is NOT a support request. Is a change requirement, or whatever that means in an Open Source development process. So, Gavin, I advise you to not alienate the developer base. I know the project is important and has a lot of followers, and that my opiniion is one in many others, but keep it that way! Now, I agree with you that these kind of discussion belongs here and not in JIRA. I'm sorry for that but I expect you to take the issue in consideration. It's important not only for me, but for other people. And we also think that a lot of people haven't realized the hidden bug (in the eyes of the end users) that current Criteria functionality puts in a project. As for your comment: There is a particular kind of user who thinks that every issue they report in JIRA deserves some kind of special personalized response from the Hibernate Team. This is **absolutely not the case**. JIRA is **not** a support portal, rather, it is our personal TODO list. Yes, every report in JIRA deserves personalized response from the Hibernate Team. Not for support, but for giving it at least consideration! I'd like to see the opinion of other Hibernate Team members about this, too. I offered a patch so its just a matter of thinking if the improvement is useful or not, and reviewing it later. -- Ing. Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi Director Técnico DTQ Software -- Ing. Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi Director Técnico DTQ Software Teléfono: (506) 363-7535 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ hibernate-devel mailing list hibernate-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hibernate-devel
Re: [Hibernate] Please help keep JIRA clean! (comment for issue HHH-1005)
On Nov 18, 2005, at 11:11 PM, Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi wrote: Yes, every report in JIRA deserves personalized response from the Hibernate Team. Not for support, but for giving it at least consideration! Wrong, that's what the developer list is for. I'd like to see the opinion of other Hibernate Team members about this, too. I offered a patch so its just a matter of thinking if the improvement is useful or not, and reviewing it later. You should discuss it here and not post it to JIRA. If the response is negative there is no reason to post it to JIRA. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ hibernate-devel mailing list hibernate-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hibernate-devel
RE: [Hibernate] Please help keep JIRA clean! (comment for issue HHH-1005)
Now, I apologize for cloning the issue. I just found it rude and inconsiderate for a commiter to close an issue without giving a proper commentary. Yes, every report in JIRA deserves personalized response from the Hibernate Team. Not for support, but for giving it at least consideration! On the contrary, if we had to write spend time writing essays in response to every JIRA Issue, we would never get any useful work done. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv28alloc_id845op=click ___ hibernate-devel mailing list hibernate-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hibernate-devel
Re: [Hibernate] Please help keep JIRA clean! (comment for issue HHH-1005)
(this Thunderbird 1.5 keeps setting reply's to private e-mail addresses. I'll watch out for it). Yes, every report in JIRA deserves personalized response from the Hibernate Team. Not for support, but for giving it at least consideration! Wrong, that's what the developer list is for. Err... then what is the comments section in JIRA for? And votes? AFAIK - you post an issue, put some comments... if the discussion gets too complicated then you move it to the mailing list. That's usual practice. Maybe you at Hibernate do things different and then I'll put it in the mailing list. But that's not the common approach to bug reports in open source projects. You should discuss it here and not post it to JIRA. If the response is negative there is no reason to post it to JIRA. Ok, can we discuss the issue at hand without Gavin saying -1 for extra complexity, which is for what it's worth the same answer as -1 because I don't feel like it?. I'd like to see some technical arguments about it, please. -- Ing. Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi Director Técnico DTQ Software --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ hibernate-devel mailing list hibernate-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hibernate-devel
Re: [Hibernate] Please help keep JIRA clean! (comment for issue HHH-1005)
You said yourself that the modifications required for the issue were an extra 2 o 3 methods. I don't see the need for a full essay. I think you're very busy and that prevents you to really look at the issue. In that case you should leave it open until you have time for it, for the good of the project. -- Ing. Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi Director Técnico DTQ Software --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ hibernate-devel mailing list hibernate-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hibernate-devel
Re: [Hibernate] Please help keep JIRA clean! (comment for issue HHH-1005)
Gavin King wrote: But that's not the common approach to bug reports in open source projects. You might have noticed that we do things quite differently to many other projects. Too much democracy is a major reason why so many initially successful open source projects grind to a complete halt after maybe 2 years of existence. Yes, but neglecting developer input is the other major reason of open source projects failure. I remember reading an essay about that, but right now I don't have much time to discuss it. Now, probably you won't remember me, but I've been a Hibernate user for 3 years now... So at least let me explain the technical reasons for the issue and have a good discussion that's not based on politics. -- Ing. Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi Director Técnico DTQ Software --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ hibernate-devel mailing list hibernate-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hibernate-devel
Re: [Hibernate] Please help keep JIRA clean! (comment for issue HHH-1005)
Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi wrote: Gavin King wrote: Yes, but neglecting developer input is the other major reason of open source projects failure. I remember reading an essay about that, but right now I don't have much time to discuss it. (ohh I remember... it was the Cathedral and the Bazaar): Anyway, in a world of cheap PCs and fast Internet links, we find pretty consistently that the only really limiting resource is skilled attention. Open-source projects, when they founder, essentially never do so for want of machines or links or office space; they die only when the developers themselves lose interest. just to make a better point ;). -- Ing. Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi Director Técnico DTQ Software --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ hibernate-devel mailing list hibernate-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hibernate-devel
RE: [Hibernate] Please help keep JIRA clean! (comment for issue HHH-1005)
Yes, futile silly inane discussions such as this one kill my enthusiasm and interest a little bit every day... Tell you what: you run your project the way you want, I'll not interfere; ergo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 4:50 PM To: Hibernate development Cc: Gavin King Subject: Re: [Hibernate] Please help keep JIRA clean! (comment for issue HHH-1005) Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi wrote: Gavin King wrote: Yes, but neglecting developer input is the other major reason of open source projects failure. I remember reading an essay about that, but right now I don't have much time to discuss it. (ohh I remember... it was the Cathedral and the Bazaar): Anyway, in a world of cheap PCs and fast Internet links, we find pretty consistently that the only really limiting resource is skilled attention. Open-source projects, when they founder, essentially never do so for want of machines or links or office space; they die only when the developers themselves lose interest. just to make a better point ;). -- Ing. Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi Director Técnico DTQ Software --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ hibernate-devel mailing list hibernate-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hibernate-devel --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv28alloc_id845op=click ___ hibernate-devel mailing list hibernate-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hibernate-devel
Re: [Hibernate] Please help keep JIRA clean! (comment for issue HHH-1005)
Steve Ebersole wrote: Yes, futile silly inane discussions such as this one kill my enthusiasm and interest a little bit every day... Tell you what: you run your project the way you want, I'll not interfere; ergo That's when you're not the one asking for attention to a problem. That's all I'm asking. Talking about politics is just for fun, but if you're too busy for that you can ignore that, I don't mind. -- Ing. Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi Director Técnico DTQ Software --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ hibernate-devel mailing list hibernate-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hibernate-devel
