Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/24/2007 at 03:19 PM, Mark Zelden [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: But you can do so if they are read only. We've had this discussion many times and I suspect you have read the posts and the caveats. One of the caveats from IBM was that you could break the library that way even if the access was R/O. On the other hand, zFS (note the lower case z since you like to nit pick) is a VSAM linear data set and AFAIK read-only sharing is supported across systems and across sysplex boundaries. Sounds plausible; could someone from IBM comment on that? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
On Thu, 24 May 2007 09:55:27 -0300, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/23/2007 at 10:21 AM, Mark Zelden [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I will probably not use the symbolic alias / catalog since we share the same sysres set across sysplexes in some cases. That's not supported for HFS and ZFS. Officially, no. It is not supported to share HFS and PDSE across sysplex boundaries. XCF is needed to communicate changes, which of course can't be done across sysplex boundaries. But you can do so if they are read only. We've had this discussion many times and I suspect you have read the posts and the caveats. On the other hand, zFS (note the lower case z since you like to nit pick) is a VSAM linear data set and AFAIK read-only sharing is supported across systems and across sysplex boundaries. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group: G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/ Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
On Tue, 22 May 2007 20:19:37 -0400, John Eells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which doesn't work for zFS. Which brings back similar issues that there were when HFS had to be SMS controlled. snip True. For zFS the usercat with symbolic aliasing is the alternative. (You can like it or despise it, but it's the alternative we have.) -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html That sounds a little heavy handed for IBM. Seems to me that if we complain enough it gets changed. We have not converted to zFS as yet for this very reason. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
ZFS is not the issue. HFS has the same restriction. Hence many shops use a specific dataset name for them, probably with variable substitution, like the matching sysres volser in the name. Of course this is assuming the HFS/ZFS reside on different volumes than the target library set. I've not tried placing these datasets together on one volume yet. Would be nice to know if indirect volser cataloging would work. On Wed, 23 May 2007 09:54:35 -0500, Alan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 22 May 2007 20:19:37 -0400, John Eells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which doesn't work for zFS. Which brings back similar issues that there were when HFS had to be SMS controlled. snip True. For zFS the usercat with symbolic aliasing is the alternative. (You can like it or despise it, but it's the alternative we have.) -- John Eells -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
On Wed, 23 May 2007 09:54:35 -0500, Alan Scott wrote: On Tue, 22 May 2007 20:19:37 -0400, John Eells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which doesn't work for zFS. Which brings back similar issues that there were when HFS had to be SMS controlled. True. For zFS the usercat with symbolic aliasing is the alternative. (You can like it or despise it, but it's the alternative we have.) That sounds a little heavy handed for IBM. Seems to me that if we complain enough it gets changed. We have not converted to zFS as yet for this very reason. Is this also the problem that IBM addressed by resolving system symbols embedded in symbolic links? Other providers do likewise with symbols in the mount maps. IBM, however, often invents its own solutions in lieu of following the mode. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
On Wed, 23 May 2007 09:54:35 -0500, Alan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 22 May 2007 20:19:37 -0400, John Eells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which doesn't work for zFS. Which brings back similar issues that there were when HFS had to be SMS controlled. snip True. For zFS the usercat with symbolic aliasing is the alternative. (You can like it or despise it, but it's the alternative we have.) That sounds a little heavy handed for IBM. Seems to me that if we complain enough it gets changed. We have not converted to zFS as yet for this very reason. I will probably not use the symbolic alias / catalog since we share the same sysres set across sysplexes in some cases. Instead, I plan on using a HLQ of SYS1 for the sysres set zFS files in combination with DEFINE RECATALOG. It is a one time DEFINE RECATALOG in each of the environments (other than the cloning environment) as I create a new sysres set for the first time with zFS. In the environment I clone from, the data sets will get deleted and copied / cataloged from my maintenance sysres set. This is similar to how we use HFS today. All the different sysres set HFS files are already cataloged in each of the environments. The main difference is with DEFINE NONVSAM the data set doesn't have to exist so it can be done ahead of time. I can't do that with VSAM. I posted my thoughts about this a while back in March - subject Re: ZFS Root impact on cloning SYSRES: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0703L=ibm-mainD=1amp;O=DP=117899 Although I haven't done this because I am still in the process of rolling out z/OS 1.8 and the entire roll out won't be completed for a couple of months still. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group: G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/ Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
On Wed, 23 May 2007 10:08:56 -0500, Matthew Stitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ZFS is not the issue. HFS has the same restriction. What same restriction? Hence many shops use a specific dataset name for them, probably with variable substitution, like the matching sysres volser in the name. Of course this is assuming the HFS/ZFS reside on different volumes than the target library set. I've not tried placing these datasets together on one volume yet. Would be nice to know if indirect volser cataloging would work. It works fine for HFS. I used a name like SYS1.OMVS.ROOT cataloged to VOLSER(**) or VOLSER(SYSR2) for years (since non-sms HFS was allowed). See this from my web site / CBT file 434: Setting Up a Shared UNIX Root File HFS http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsfiles/$rootshr.txt I had to change the way we were doing things here when I implemented shared HFS. The root name (and other sysres set HFS files) must be unique for that. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group: G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/ Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
Mark, Let us know how it works out. I to have my HFS's cataloged to system symbols. SRESH1 and $SRESH2. With HFS's I can use FDR and just duplicate the entire volume to propogate maintenance to other systems from my SMP/e volumes. We have not come up with a solution that we like to handle the zFS files being VSAM. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
On Wed, 23 May 2007 10:45:02 -0500, Alan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, Let us know how it works out. I to have my HFS's cataloged to system symbols. SRESH1 and $SRESH2. With HFS's I can use FDR and just duplicate the entire volume to propogate maintenance to other systems from my SMP/e volumes. We have not come up with a solution that we like to handle the zFS files being VSAM. I have to logically copy / rename HFS now due to shared HFS - but I used to use full volume like you do. I don't see why my method won't work. We (bascially) do the same thing for IODF files instead of using a shared catalog. I can easily test it. I'll let you know. (BTW Bruce, FDRCOPY takes about 10 times longer to logically copy a HFS than DFDSS - why?) Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group: G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/ Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
Matthew Stitt wrote: ZFS is not the issue. HFS has the same restriction. Hence many shops use a specific dataset name for them, probably with variable substitution, like the matching sysres volser in the name. Of course this is assuming the HFS/ZFS reside on different volumes than the target library set. I've not tried placing these datasets together on one volume yet. Would be nice to know if indirect volser cataloging would work. Non-SMS-managed HFS data sets may have indirect catalog entries. -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
Alan Scott wrote: On Tue, 22 May 2007 20:19:37 -0400, John Eells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which doesn't work for zFS. Which brings back similar issues that there were when HFS had to be SMS controlled. snip True. For zFS the usercat with symbolic aliasing is the alternative. (You can like it or despise it, but it's the alternative we have.) snip That sounds a little heavy handed for IBM. Seems to me that if we complain enough it gets changed. We have not converted to zFS as yet for this very reason. snip I'm sorry if that seems heavy handed. I'm just telling you about the world as it is (rather than as we might wish it were). We do understand the problem; it is acceptable and affordable solutions to it that we are a bit short of at the moment. But, please feel free to submit a requirement if you wish. It can't hurt. -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
The heavy-hand is being applied by DFP. Since the ZFS is a VSAM dataset, that means there is an entry in the VVDS dataset on that volume. But DFP does not have the mechanism to build a VVDS dataset name based on a system symbolic for the volume name when it goes looking for that information. Would be nice to be able to use system symbolics for VSAM files as can be done with non-VSAM files. On Wed, 23 May 2007 12:28:53 -0400, John Eells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan Scott wrote: On Tue, 22 May 2007 20:19:37 -0400, John Eells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which doesn't work for zFS. Which brings back similar issues that there were when HFS had to be SMS controlled. snip True. For zFS the usercat with symbolic aliasing is the alternative. (You can like it or despise it, but it's the alternative we have.) snip That sounds a little heavy handed for IBM. Seems to me that if we complain enough it gets changed. We have not converted to zFS as yet for this very reason. snip I'm sorry if that seems heavy handed. I'm just telling you about the world as it is (rather than as we might wish it were). We do understand the problem; it is acceptable and affordable solutions to it that we are a bit short of at the moment. But, please feel free to submit a requirement if you wish. It can't hurt. -- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Compuware installs get an F
On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 00:01 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote: Since the RM requires a one-to-one correspondence between target zones and the SMPLTS, SMPMTS, SMPSCDS, and SMPSTS, are these considered target data sets? Must admit this question had me confused for a while. Possibly I contributed somewhat - when I say targets, I expect people to understand O/S target libraries, not target zone related libraries. Target libraries are what your code gets applied into, and (in my case) invariably reside on the resvol. Should there be provision for separation between the VSAM and NONVSAM SMP/E data sets? Not for me, but customers can manage that if offered. I am completely naive of indirect cataloguing. What book should I read? Init and Tuning ref from memory - maybe look for indirect volume support (or somesuch) references. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
Shane wrote: On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 00:01 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote: snip I am completely naive of indirect cataloguing. What book should I read? Init and Tuning ref from memory - maybe look for indirect volume support (or somesuch) references. snip See: - The parameters for DEFINE NONVSAM in z/OS DFSMS Access Method Services for Catalogs: http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/dgt2i250/16.1.1?SHELF=EZ2ZO10hDT=20060630014839CASE= - And the topic on Indirect Volume Serial Support and other related topics in z/OS MVS Init Tuning (a search on indirect should get you well started): http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/SEARCH?Book=iea2e270searchRequest=indirectSEARCH=SearchType=EXACTNSHELF=EZ2ZO10hDT=20060710234538searchTopic=TOPICsearchText=TEXTsearchIndex=INDEXrank=RANK John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Compuware installs get an F
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/20/2007 at 03:25 PM, Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: How fine a granularity do you wish? Should each data set be given a distinct symbolic volser for the customer to tailor, with the possibility of setting some of them equal? Be aware that what seems to you desirable flexibility may seem cumbersome and tedious to a less sophisticated customer. Certainly the coarsest acceptable granularity would be a separate data class or volume serial number for each zone, with a common default. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
On Tue, 22 May 2007 08:15:16 -0400, John Eells wrote: snip I am completely naive of indirect cataloguing. What book should I read? - The parameters for DEFINE NONVSAM in z/OS DFSMS Access Method Services for Catalogs: http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/dgt2i250/16.1.1?SHELF=EZ2ZO10hDT=20060630014839CASE= Got it. Thanks. In fact, I had some vague knowledge of the facility, but not by name, nor how to use it. How worthwhile is it for an ISV to provide skeleton JCL for the customer to use in cataloguing with indirect volume references? (And I note that some vendors' testing resources might be much taxed by validating such a facility.) NONVSAM. Is there comparable support for VSAM, or would customers expect the CSI to be simply catalogued, with multiple TARGET and DLIB zones referring to indirectly catalogued libraries? This feels s risky: running an APPLY or ACCEPT job on the wrong system could be disastrous. It would feel safer if all update jobs made direct references to the output data sets, and any indirect references were read-only. Thanks again, gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Tue, 22 May 2007 08:15:16 -0400, John Eells wrote: snip I am completely naive of indirect cataloguing. What book should I read? - The parameters for DEFINE NONVSAM in z/OS DFSMS Access Method Services for Catalogs: http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/dgt2i250/16.1.1?SHELF=EZ2ZO10hDT=20060630014839CASE= Got it. Thanks. In fact, I had some vague knowledge of the facility, but not by name, nor how to use it. How worthwhile is it for an ISV to provide skeleton JCL for the customer to use in cataloguing with indirect volume references? (And I note that some vendors' testing resources might be much taxed by validating such a facility.) NONVSAM. Is there comparable support for VSAM, or would customers expect the CSI to be simply catalogued, with multiple TARGET and DLIB zones referring to indirectly catalogued libraries? This feels s risky: running an APPLY or ACCEPT job on the wrong system could be disastrous. It would feel safer if all update jobs made direct references to the output data sets, and any indirect references were read-only. snip There is no indirect catalog support for VSAM. The closest you can come is to place a user catalog on the volume with the VSAM, have that catalog own all the VSAM data sets on the volume, and use indirect aliasing to find the catalog. Do a search in the AMS book for the SYMBOLICRELATE keyword of the DEFINE ALIAS command. Note also that you cannot indirectly catalog a data set in JCL. You must use the IDCAMS DEFINE NONVSAM commmand, along these lines: //STEP EXEC PGM=IDCAMS //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSINDD * DEFINE - NONVSAM( - NAME(data.set.name) - VOLUMES(SYSR1) - DEVT()) - CATALOG(user.catalog.name.if.needed) You could also use the IDCAMS ALLOCATE command to allocate the data sets and set up command return code checking and conditionally run commands to accommodate restart, etc., as we did in ServerPac's ALLOCDS job a while ago. This is cleaner--if more complex--than using IEFBR14, which will have condition code zero whether or not the data sets got allocated and cataloged (or not) as you intended. If you go this route, why we use SSAs in ServerPac will quickly become apparent. ;-) In my opinion: - DDDEFs should not point to cataloged data sets on production systems. Instead, even though the catalog entries for system residence target volume (sets) should be indirect to allow master catalog reuse and make migration/backout easier, the DDDEFs should point to specific volumes (with a unit of SYSALLDA just in case we ever introduce another device type). Also, the DDDEFs for the production copy should point to a volume that does not exist to avoid inadvertantly running APPLY against the active system. - From a software packaging standpoint, if your software lives on the sysres target volume set you should provide support for indirect cataloging using system symbols. People can define system symbols based on the value of the system-supplied SYSR1 symbol for the IPL volume to point to data sets on SYSRn volumes. -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
On Tue, 22 May 2007 16:10:14 -0400, John Eells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - From a software packaging standpoint, if your software lives on the sysres target volume set you should provide support for indirect cataloging using system symbols. People can define system symbols based on the value of the system-supplied SYSR1 symbol for the IPL volume to point to data sets on SYSRn volumes. Which doesn't work for zFS. Which brings back similar issues that there were when HFS had to be SMS controlled. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group: G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/ Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Indirect Cataloging (Was: Re: Compuware installs get an F)
Mark Zelden wrote: On Tue, 22 May 2007 16:10:14 -0400, John Eells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - From a software packaging standpoint, if your software lives on the sysres target volume set you should provide support for indirect cataloging using system symbols. People can define system symbols based on the value of the system-supplied SYSR1 symbol for the IPL volume to point to data sets on SYSRn volumes. Which doesn't work for zFS. Which brings back similar issues that there were when HFS had to be SMS controlled. snip True. For zFS the usercat with symbolic aliasing is the alternative. (You can like it or despise it, but it's the alternative we have.) -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Compuware installs get an F
Damn! I wish JCL symbol substitution could be performed in the body of instream UCLIN. Don't we all - symbolics in sysin (in general) that is, not just the specific case you highlight. Add to that a feature that most scheduler products have. Something like 'substitute off'/'substitute on'. Robert -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Symbol substitution (was: Compuware installs get an F)
On Mon, 21 May 2007 08:08:35 +0200, Robert Bardos wrote:
Don't we all - symbolics in sysin (in general) that is,
not just the specific case you highlight.
Add to that a feature that most scheduler products have.
Something like 'substitute off'/'substitute on'.
I had assumed that in the DD statement that would be
necessary for compatibility, something such as:
//SYSIN DD DATA,SUBST={NO|YES}
I see little need for such a feature elsewhere in JCL.
Otherwise, I wish there were stricter error checking in
JCL. I'd prefer that when I refer to an undefined symbol,
the parser would report a JCL error rather than quietly
leaving the name unsubstituted, perhaps using a temporary
data set name as a result.
-- gil
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Compuware installs get an F
I've been tearing my hair out trying to install ECC, AbendAid, and XPEDITER. Compuware uses a brain-dead ISPF dialog to help generate JCL for the install. The dialog forgets variables and actually builds JCL that fails. Some examples: - one volume for the SMP installs, no separate volumes for SMP, target, and DLIBs. Yeah, I want my DLIB datasets on the same volume as my target datasets, sure. - DEFINE CLUSTER with no VOLUME parm (loved that one) - loading the AbendAid DSECT file failed because they didn't allow for enough extents in the define for the file - even though I told it what datasets to use, it keeps using defaults so I have to change the JCL anyway - my favorite, the AbendAid viewer clist was generated with a LOAD instead of a CLIST library, so you get a cryptic TSO message that has to be looked up on IBMLink before you can figure it out I could go on, but I have work to do. Now I know why nobody bothers reporting these error back to the vendors. You'd never get anything installed, so you just push through it. Even when you take the time to report it, they never believe you anyway. Sheesh, Tom Conley -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Compuware installs get an F
On Sun, 2007-05-20 at 14:11 -0400, Pinnacle wrote: Compuware uses a brain-dead ISPF dialog to help generate JCL for the install. Not just they. Now I know why nobody bothers reporting these error back to the vendors. You'd never get anything installed, so you just push through it. Even when you take the time to report it, they never believe you anyway. Welcome to the real world fella ... Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Compuware installs get an F
On Sun, 20 May 2007 14:11:25 -0400, Pinnacle wrote: - one volume for the SMP installs, no separate volumes for SMP, target, and DLIBs. Yeah, I want my DLIB datasets on the same volume as my target datasets, sure. How fine a granularity do you wish? Should each data set be given a distinct symbolic volser for the customer to tailor, with the possibility of setting some of them equal? Be aware that what seems to you desirable flexibility may seem cumbersome and tedious to a less sophisticated customer. (Don't take that as entirely rhetoric -- you might be replying at an ideal time for some vendors reading this list to improve their techniques.) Damn! I wish JCL symbols could be defined in terms of other JCL symbols. Damn! I wish JCL symbol substitution could be performed in the body of instream UCLIN. - DEFINE CLUSTER with no VOLUME parm (loved that one) The vendor may even believe he tested that one, and SMS bailed him out. Do you wish it customizable with a data set by data set granularity which data sets are catalogued and which not? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Compuware installs get an F
On Sun, 2007-05-20 at 15:25 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote: Tom appears to be falling into a hole I stumble upon a bit when I go to different customers. It ain't my shop, and I have to work with the environment as it is. Were it my shop, I'd have ACS code in place to accommodate a lot of the vendor inanities we see - once the included JCL errors had been sorted, of course. How fine a granularity do you wish? Should each data set be given a distinct symbolic volser for the customer to tailor, with the possibility of setting some of them equal? Be aware that what seems to you desirable flexibility may seem cumbersome and tedious to a less sophisticated customer. Symbolics per class of dataset would be a good start; target vs. dlib vs. SMPE Unfortunately doesn't help with the DDDEFs or indirect cataloguing. Now there's a thought - how about adding a template IDCAMS step to indirectly catalog the targets ???. Damn! I wish JCL symbol substitution could be performed in the body of instream UCLIN. Don't we all - symbolics in sysin (in general) that is, not just the specific case you highlight. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Compuware installs get an F
On Mon, 21 May 2007 08:03:09 +1000, Shane wrote: On Sun, 2007-05-20 at 15:25 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote: Symbolics per class of dataset would be a good start; target vs. dlib vs. SMPE Since the RM requires a one-to-one correspondence between target zones and the SMPLTS, SMPMTS, SMPSCDS, and SMPSTS, are these considered target data sets? Should there be provision for separation between the VSAM and NONVSAM SMP/E data sets? Unfortunately doesn't help with the DDDEFs or indirect cataloguing. Now there's a thought - how about adding a template IDCAMS step to indirectly catalog the targets ???. I am completely naive of indirect cataloguing. What book should I read? Damn! I wish JCL symbol substitution could be performed in the body of instream UCLIN. Don't we all - symbolics in sysin (in general) that is, not just the specific case you highlight. Is there, perhaps already, a SHARE requirement for this? And for the closely related instream data sets in PROCs? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
