Re: [IceHorses] Tongue Over The Bit / Nosebands

2008-02-13 Thread Karen Thomas
 I'm happy that you seem to have a gut feeling that using a tight 
 noseband is a bad idea. In fact, Gina, it is a stupid, cruel, and 
 utterly ignorant idea
which is inflicted on horses by people who know nothing at all about 
horsemanship and who have no feeling and no care for the feeling in your 
horse or any horse.


That Dr. Deb...you just never know where she stands on an issue...hehehe. 
Seriously, no wonder she's not always popular at her clinics.


Karen Thomas, NC



Re: [IceHorses] Tongue Over The Bit / Nosebands

2008-02-13 Thread Janice McDonald
my god.  She is so right on.  Backs and bits, she is THE source imo...
Janice

-- 
courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne


[IceHorses] Tongue Over The Bit / Nosebands

2008-02-12 Thread Judy Ryder
Dr. Deb on the tongue over the bit, and nosebands:

..in general there is only one reason that horses try persistently to get
their tongue over the bit -- and that is, that they are still at the stage
where they regard the bit as a foreign object in their mouth, and their
response to this is to try to spit it out. When they discover that they
can't spit it out, they then, because they still don't emotionally or
conceptually accept having a bit in their mouth, try to withdraw or retract
the tongue so as, as far as possible, to avoid touching it with their
tongue.

When they retract their tongue, it seems to most riders that what the horse
is trying to do is get the tongue over the bit. Sometimes, the effort that
the horse makes to retract the tongue is sufficient that the tongue actually
does wind up over the bit; but then you will have noticed that they continue
to make wierd, floppy and twisty kinds of movements with their tongue,
because their real objective is still to try not to touch the bit, and
having the bit up against the frenulum under the tongue is like going from
the frying pan into the fire. In effect, having succeeded in getting their
tongue over the bit, they don't go quiet -- which would indicate that this
was their objective. Instead, it seems that just as soon as they get their
tongue over the bit, they are trying to get it back under it again. In other
words, they only accidentally got their tongue over the bit.

If the horse does not happen to get its tongue over the bit, it will
continue to retract it, and this effort causes the mass of the tongue (the
tongue is the largest muscle from the middle of the neck forward) to wad up
in the pharynx, which is the chamber at the back of the animal's mouth. In
order to breathe, all the air the horse takes in must cross the pharynx in
order to get to the lungs. If half of the tongue is stuffed into the
pharynx, it blocks the airway, causing the animal various levels of distress
depending upon how much retraction. The distress the animal exhibits will
include reluctance to move, reluctance to perform at full level, inability
to concentrate or pay attention (because they are worried about being able
to breathe), various types of head-tossing, trying to grab the bit or yank
down on the reins.

I'm happy that you seem to have a gut feeling that using a tight noseband is
a bad idea. In fact, Gina, it is a stupid, cruel, and utterly ignorant idea
which is inflicted on horses by people who know nothing at all about
horsemanship and who have no feeling and no care for the feeling in your
horse or any horse. You understand from my above discussion that tying the
horse's mouth shut can do absolutely nothing but intensify for the animal
the feeling that he is choking or being choked by the rider. You, and all
those false and ambitious competitors who call themselves coaches -- those
who may have suggested to you that the solution is to use a tight
noseband -- need to know that, once a horse's incisor teeth are touching, no
amount of tightening of the noseband can close the mouth any farther. To
close the mouth farther, you would have to fracture the jaws. All the tight
noseband does is make it impossible for the horse to shift the position of
his jaws and tongue, and thus to totally deprive him of the ability to give
himself any relief from whatever wrong position the tongue may be in.

The only RIGHT way to address this problem is to teach the horse that he can
be OK with a bit -- a foreign object -- in his mouth. Tying the bit up helps
the horse to accept the bit (emotionally) and to understand (intellectually
or conceptually) that it is a tool of communication and not a means intended
to hurt him. Tying it up does this by raising the bit in the mouth --
raising up toward the horse's rostrum, not up toward his eyes -- so that
it weighs less heavily upon the tongue, and so that it is easier for the
horse to feel comfortable extending his tongue out forward underneath the
bit. Riding him with the bit tied up to his foretop, or tied up around the
top of his nose/rostrum, you'll ride him this way for a few days and then
very gradually lengthen the strings until they can be removed.

You will also completely remove the noseband -- any noseband, of any kind.,
and continually invite the horse to open his mouth and to make chewing
motions with his jaws while wearing the bit. You do this by twirling the
head, and by following an ironclad rule that EVERY TIME the horse complies
with your SLIGHTEST request, you will reward him by dropping ALL pressure
from the bit -- drop to the buckle or drop the reins on his neck. You take a
few steps, apply pressure with the bit that is aimed at a particular one
of his feet, and when that foot slows down or stops, you drop those reins.
This is how you teach a horse to stop.

You must also teach him to turn. To do this, you use an opening rein in
order to make it obvious that he is to follow the feel to the side. You
aim the feel