Re: [iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-29 Thread Eric Chow
Dear Michael,

I got it. Many thanks for your help. I finally make the signature
LTV-enabled.
I just add the CRL of the issuer cert to the signature. It works. Thank you
very much!

Best regards,
Eric



On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 7:12 AM, mkl m...@wir-sind-cool.org wrote:

 Eric,

 Eric Chow wrote
  The sample1.pdf is signed by the certificate that generated by keytool
 and
  the sample2.pdf is signed with the smartcard (PKCS#11).
 
  sample1.pdf (58K)
 
 http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/attachment/4659598/0/sample1.pdf
  sample2.pdf (48K)
 
 http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/attachment/4659598/1/sample2.pdf

 Ok, the main reason why sample1.pdf
  shows LTV-enabled in Adobe reader

 is that it is signed using a self-issued/self-signed certificate while real
 world user certificates usually are issued by other certificates which in
 turn are issued by still other other ones, which in turn etc. pp. ...
 Eventually this chain ends in a certificate like yours which is issued by
 itself. A certificate is signed using its issuer certificate; thus, a
 self-issued certificate is also known as self-signed certificate.

 A small 101 on certificates first...

 Whenever you are checking whether you put some trust in a signature (beyond
 the mathematical check whether the hash of the document matches with the
 signature), you try and build that chain as far as possible (verifying
 whether each certificate actually has been signed by its alleged issuer and
 checking numerous other attributes, e.g. validity interval and allowed
 usage
 purposes) and check whether you have any of these certificates in your
 local
 store of trusted certificates; usually the certificates in your trusted
 certificate store are self-issued certificates. If find no match, you don't
 trust the signature.

 Otherwise you obviously trust the certificate you identified (otherwise it
 would not be in your trusted store, would it?), but the certificates
 leading
 to it from your signer certificate inclusively have to be checked some more
 because they may meanwhile have been revoked (due to stolen keys or
 misuse).
 Thus, you query the respective public key infrastructure of the issuing
 certificate whether the certificate in question is revoked or not using
 OCSP
 or CRL queries.

 To guarantee that the respective responses are no fakes coming from some
 man-in-the-middle fooling you (after all you do those queries via some
 anonymous internet route probably infested by bad guys), these responses
 themselves also are signed. Thus, you have to verify these signatures, too.
 Etc. Etc. Etc. Fortunately the responses from the PKI of the issuing
 certificate usually are signed by a very few certificates which makes this
 process eventually end because of your unlimited trust in the certificates
 in your trusted store.

 If at a later time (maybe a much later time) there is a need to re-check
 the
 validity of your signature, those PKIs might be offline and the procedure
 mentioned above may not be repeatable. For such a case, though, it would
 suffice to have all those information available you collected earlier in
 your original attempt to verify the signature. Thus, there is a need to
 store all these validation related information alongside your signature.
 This is what the CAdES/XAdES/PAdES standards (and others, too) are all
 about.

 When Adobe Reader says some signature is LTV-enabled, it essentially has
 checked whether it finds all the information required for such a later
 check
 in the PDF document given the trust in the certificates in the trusted
 store.

 (Actually the situation can be somewhat more complicated due to
 cross-signed
 certificates, alternative certificate chains, TSLs, time stamps, differing
 validation modells... On the other hand the actual checks can be somewhat
 simplified for PKIs often verified against.)

 In your case sample1.pdf is signed by a self-issued certificate which you
 most likely have added to your trusted certificates (otherwise Adobe Reader
 would warn you about this missing trust). As the signer certificate already
 is a trusted certificate, there is no need for any other validation related
 information. Thus the document is LTV-enabled.

 sample2.pdf on the other hand is signed by a user certificate which is
 issued by some other certificate. Neither the other certificate nor any
 revocation information for any certificate are available. Thus: not
 LTV-enabled.

 By the way, by adding that user certificate itself to the trusted
 certificates makes Adobe display it as LTV-enabled... ;)

 (BTW, the signature in sample2.pdf uses the adbe.pkcs7.sha1 subfilter; for
 interoperable signatures the current PDF standard has been recommending
 against using it since the last decade.)

 I hope this helps to understand which information have to be added to a PDF
 to make it LTV-enabled.

 Regards,   Michael



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[iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-28 Thread mkl
Eric,

Eric Chow wrote
 The sample1.pdf is signed by the certificate that generated by keytool and
 the sample2.pdf is signed with the smartcard (PKCS#11).
 
 sample1.pdf (58K)
 http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/attachment/4659598/0/sample1.pdf
 sample2.pdf (48K)
 http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/attachment/4659598/1/sample2.pdf

Ok, the main reason why sample1.pdf
 shows LTV-enabled in Adobe reader

is that it is signed using a self-issued/self-signed certificate while real
world user certificates usually are issued by other certificates which in
turn are issued by still other other ones, which in turn etc. pp. ...
Eventually this chain ends in a certificate like yours which is issued by
itself. A certificate is signed using its issuer certificate; thus, a
self-issued certificate is also known as self-signed certificate.

A small 101 on certificates first...

Whenever you are checking whether you put some trust in a signature (beyond
the mathematical check whether the hash of the document matches with the
signature), you try and build that chain as far as possible (verifying
whether each certificate actually has been signed by its alleged issuer and
checking numerous other attributes, e.g. validity interval and allowed usage
purposes) and check whether you have any of these certificates in your local
store of trusted certificates; usually the certificates in your trusted
certificate store are self-issued certificates. If find no match, you don't
trust the signature.

Otherwise you obviously trust the certificate you identified (otherwise it
would not be in your trusted store, would it?), but the certificates leading
to it from your signer certificate inclusively have to be checked some more
because they may meanwhile have been revoked (due to stolen keys or misuse).
Thus, you query the respective public key infrastructure of the issuing
certificate whether the certificate in question is revoked or not using OCSP
or CRL queries.

To guarantee that the respective responses are no fakes coming from some
man-in-the-middle fooling you (after all you do those queries via some
anonymous internet route probably infested by bad guys), these responses
themselves also are signed. Thus, you have to verify these signatures, too.
Etc. Etc. Etc. Fortunately the responses from the PKI of the issuing
certificate usually are signed by a very few certificates which makes this
process eventually end because of your unlimited trust in the certificates
in your trusted store.

If at a later time (maybe a much later time) there is a need to re-check the
validity of your signature, those PKIs might be offline and the procedure
mentioned above may not be repeatable. For such a case, though, it would
suffice to have all those information available you collected earlier in
your original attempt to verify the signature. Thus, there is a need to
store all these validation related information alongside your signature.
This is what the CAdES/XAdES/PAdES standards (and others, too) are all
about.

When Adobe Reader says some signature is LTV-enabled, it essentially has
checked whether it finds all the information required for such a later check
in the PDF document given the trust in the certificates in the trusted
store.

(Actually the situation can be somewhat more complicated due to cross-signed
certificates, alternative certificate chains, TSLs, time stamps, differing
validation modells... On the other hand the actual checks can be somewhat
simplified for PKIs often verified against.)

In your case sample1.pdf is signed by a self-issued certificate which you
most likely have added to your trusted certificates (otherwise Adobe Reader
would warn you about this missing trust). As the signer certificate already
is a trusted certificate, there is no need for any other validation related
information. Thus the document is LTV-enabled.

sample2.pdf on the other hand is signed by a user certificate which is
issued by some other certificate. Neither the other certificate nor any
revocation information for any certificate are available. Thus: not
LTV-enabled.

By the way, by adding that user certificate itself to the trusted
certificates makes Adobe display it as LTV-enabled... ;)

(BTW, the signature in sample2.pdf uses the adbe.pkcs7.sha1 subfilter; for
interoperable signatures the current PDF standard has been recommending
against using it since the last decade.)

I hope this helps to understand which information have to be added to a PDF
to make it LTV-enabled.

Regards,   Michael



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Re: [iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-27 Thread Eric Chow
Dear Michael,

I tried to use keytool to generate a keystore and sign the PDF. It shows
LTV-enabled in Adobe reader.
I also use the same method to sign the PDF with PKCS#11 (Smartcard) but the
output signed PDF not LTV-enabled

What's the difference?

Best regards,
Eric



On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Eric Chow eric...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dear Michael,

 Thanks for your help.
 Because of my dummy and leak of knowledge in LTV, would you please to show
 me a simple example to sign a PDF that LTV-enabled with option 2?

 Best regards,
 Eric



 On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 3:58 AM, mkl m...@wir-sind-cool.org wrote:

 Eric Chow wrote
  I used the following code to add the LTV to the existed signed PDF. The
  attached PDF is the result. But it shows LTV not enabled .  in the
  Adobe Reader XI.
 
  test_signed_LTV.pdf (346K)
 
 http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/attachment/4659584/0/test_signed_LTV.pdf

 Your signature contains both a CRL and a time stamp both of which have
 signatures in their own right. Unfortunately the
 LtvVerification.addVerification overload you use only inspects the outer
 signatures.

 Thus, you have three options,

 1. Include all the CRLs / OCSP responses required to verify the
 certificates
 of the outer signature, the CRL and  OCSP response signatures, and
 timestamp
 already in the original signature; in this case you do not need to add
 extra
 validation related information. In your case only one CRL is embedded
 which
 most likely does not contain the information required for verifying the
 three signatures used.

 2. Don't use CRLs, OCSP reponses or time stamps in the original signature
 but do add the whole signature chain (in your case there only is the
 signer
 certificate). In this case the LtvVerification.addVerification overload
 you
 use should add all required information.

 3. Collect all validation related information required for all signatures
 already present in the PDF and in the collected information, and use the
 other LtvVerification.addVerification overload to add these information.

 Regards,   Michael



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[iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-27 Thread mkl
Eric Chow,

Eric Chow wrote
 I tried to use keytool to generate a keystore and sign the PDF. It shows
 LTV-enabled in Adobe reader.
 I also use the same method to sign the PDF with PKCS#11 (Smartcard) but
 the output signed PDF not LTV-enabled

Please provide samples of both to compare their respective structure.

That been said, if I remember correctly, your recent example in this thread
did not include all the certificates in the certificate chain. That may be
one issue.

Regards,Michael



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Re: [iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-27 Thread Eric Chow
Dear Michael,

I found that in sample1.pdf, it only has a signed certificate.

In sample2.pdf, there are three levels of certificate:

- Issuer ROOT cert (A)
  - Issuer signed cert (B)
 - my personal cert (C)


Do I need to add the (A) and (B) to the .addVerification(...) ?
Just add the certificate or their CRLs and OCSPs ?

Anyway, how can I get those certificates from (C) ?



Best regards,
Eric





On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Eric Chow eric...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Michael,

 The sample1.pdf is signed by the certificate that generated by keytool and
 the sample2.pdf is signed with the smartcard (PKCS#11).

 Best regards,
 Eric




 On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 3:52 AM, mkl m...@wir-sind-cool.org wrote:

 Eric Chow,

 Eric Chow wrote
  I tried to use keytool to generate a keystore and sign the PDF. It shows
  LTV-enabled in Adobe reader.
  I also use the same method to sign the PDF with PKCS#11 (Smartcard) but
  the output signed PDF not LTV-enabled

 Please provide samples of both to compare their respective structure.

 That been said, if I remember correctly, your recent example in this
 thread
 did not include all the certificates in the certificate chain. That may be
 one issue.

 Regards,Michael



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[iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-26 Thread mkl
Eric Chow wrote
 I used the following code to add the LTV to the existed signed PDF. The
 attached PDF is the result. But it shows LTV not enabled .  in the
 Adobe Reader XI.
 
 test_signed_LTV.pdf (346K)
 http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/attachment/4659584/0/test_signed_LTV.pdf

Your signature contains both a CRL and a time stamp both of which have
signatures in their own right. Unfortunately the
LtvVerification.addVerification overload you use only inspects the outer
signatures.

Thus, you have three options,

1. Include all the CRLs / OCSP responses required to verify the certificates
of the outer signature, the CRL and  OCSP response signatures, and timestamp
already in the original signature; in this case you do not need to add extra
validation related information. In your case only one CRL is embedded which
most likely does not contain the information required for verifying the
three signatures used.

2. Don't use CRLs, OCSP reponses or time stamps in the original signature
but do add the whole signature chain (in your case there only is the signer
certificate). In this case the LtvVerification.addVerification overload you
use should add all required information.

3. Collect all validation related information required for all signatures
already present in the PDF and in the collected information, and use the
other LtvVerification.addVerification overload to add these information.

Regards,   Michael



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Re: [iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-26 Thread Eric Chow
Dear Michael,

Thanks for your help.
Because of my dummy and leak of knowledge in LTV, would you please to show
me a simple example to sign a PDF that LTV-enabled with option 2?

Best regards,
Eric



On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 3:58 AM, mkl m...@wir-sind-cool.org wrote:

 Eric Chow wrote
  I used the following code to add the LTV to the existed signed PDF. The
  attached PDF is the result. But it shows LTV not enabled .  in the
  Adobe Reader XI.
 
  test_signed_LTV.pdf (346K)
 
 http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/attachment/4659584/0/test_signed_LTV.pdf

 Your signature contains both a CRL and a time stamp both of which have
 signatures in their own right. Unfortunately the
 LtvVerification.addVerification overload you use only inspects the outer
 signatures.

 Thus, you have three options,

 1. Include all the CRLs / OCSP responses required to verify the
 certificates
 of the outer signature, the CRL and  OCSP response signatures, and
 timestamp
 already in the original signature; in this case you do not need to add
 extra
 validation related information. In your case only one CRL is embedded which
 most likely does not contain the information required for verifying the
 three signatures used.

 2. Don't use CRLs, OCSP reponses or time stamps in the original signature
 but do add the whole signature chain (in your case there only is the signer
 certificate). In this case the LtvVerification.addVerification overload you
 use should add all required information.

 3. Collect all validation related information required for all signatures
 already present in the PDF and in the collected information, and use the
 other LtvVerification.addVerification overload to add these information.

 Regards,   Michael



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[iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-18 Thread mkl
Eric,

Eric Chow wrote
 tsaClient = new TSAClientBouncyCastle(TSA_URL, TSA_ACCNT, TSA_PASSW, 6500,
 sha256);
 [...]
 
 v.merge();
 
 On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 3:45 AM, mkl lt;

 mkl@

 gt; wrote:
 
 In that case can you supply a PDF resulting from your code calling
 addVerification?

I meant not the code (which has been posted before) but the output of that
code when the input is the PDF you posted here before.

I don't have the certificates in question at hand here, let alone installed
in some key store. Whenever I run your code, therefore, I'm likely to get a
different (and obviously insufficient) output than you do.

Regards,   Michael



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[iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-18 Thread mkl
Eric,

Eric Chow wrote
 Do you mean the output PDF (signed PDF)? I attach it here. Please check!
 I tried to use iText-rups to show the document structure, but cannot see
 the DSS catalog.
 
 test_signed.pdf (295K)
 lt;http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/attachment/4659570/0/test_signed.pdfgt;

That sample is somewhat irritating. I would have expected at least one
additional revision after the original signed one but in your case the
signed revision is the last one.

Thus, just to make sure, in your code

LtvVerification v = stamper.getLtvVerification();
AcroFields af = stamper.getAcroFields();
for (String sigName : af.getSignatureNames()) {
[...]
}
v.merge();

which PdfStamper stamper do you work on? Is it the PdfStamper you retrieved
to create the signature with or is it a stamper you opened for the already
signed file?

Using that code on the PdfStamper you create the original signature with
won't work because the code adds validation related information for already
existing signatures only.

If you used that code on a PdfStamper working on a PdfReader containing the
PDF already containing the original signature, please post more of the code
doing that...

Regards,   Michael



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Re: [iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-18 Thread Eric Chow
I used the PdfStamper to create the signature.
This does not work, right? I will try to open a signed PDF and try to add
the verification again.

Thanks. I will post the results if there is any problem but need to wait
until 26th.


Best regards,
Eric



On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 7:30 PM, mkl m...@wir-sind-cool.org wrote:

 Eric,

 Eric Chow wrote
  Do you mean the output PDF (signed PDF)? I attach it here. Please check!
  I tried to use iText-rups to show the document structure, but cannot see
  the DSS catalog.
 
  test_signed.pdf (295K)
  lt;
 http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/attachment/4659570/0/test_signed.pdfgt
 ;

 That sample is somewhat irritating. I would have expected at least one
 additional revision after the original signed one but in your case the
 signed revision is the last one.

 Thus, just to make sure, in your code

 LtvVerification v = stamper.getLtvVerification();
 AcroFields af = stamper.getAcroFields();
 for (String sigName : af.getSignatureNames()) {
 [...]
 }
 v.merge();

 which PdfStamper stamper do you work on? Is it the PdfStamper you retrieved
 to create the signature with or is it a stamper you opened for the already
 signed file?

 Using that code on the PdfStamper you create the original signature with
 won't work because the code adds validation related information for already
 existing signatures only.

 If you used that code on a PdfStamper working on a PdfReader containing the
 PDF already containing the original signature, please post more of the code
 doing that...

 Regards,   Michael



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[iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-17 Thread mkl
Eric,

Eric Chow wrote
 The certificate chain is available.

In that case can you supply a PDF resulting from your code calling
addVerification?

Regards,   Michael



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Re: [iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-17 Thread Eric Chow
tsaClient = new TSAClientBouncyCastle(TSA_URL, TSA_ACCNT, TSA_PASSW, 6500,
sha256);

LtvVerification v = stamper.getLtvVerification();
AcroFields af = stamper.getAcroFields();
for (String sigName : af.getSignatureNames()) {

 v.addVerification(
 sigName,
 ocspClient,
new CrlClientOnline(chain),
LtvVerification.CertificateOption.WHOLE_CHAIN,
LtvVerification.Level.OCSP,
LtvVerification.CertificateInclusion.YES);


}

v.merge();


Regards,
Eric



On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 3:45 AM, mkl m...@wir-sind-cool.org wrote:

 Eric,

 Eric Chow wrote
  The certificate chain is available.

 In that case can you supply a PDF resulting from your code calling
 addVerification?

 Regards,   Michael



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[iText-questions] [SPAM] Re: LTV problem?

2013-12-15 Thread mkl
Eric,

Eric Chow wrote
 As you can see I already added the OcspClient  and CrlClientOnline to
 the verification, what else I need to added?

Do the certificates in question contain the information required for easy
OCSP/CRL access? AIA and CRL distribution point? Is the certificate chain
available when adding the validation information?

You might want to post a sample PDF with added validation information for
inspection.

Regards,   Michael




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