Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Valter Mura]

Hi Olivier

This is a great news!

I'm sure I'll collaborate on it in order to fix some typos :)

Ciao


Il 6 aprile 2018 03:15:11 CEST, Olivier Hallot  
ha scritto:
>Hi L10N Community! Breaking news!
>
>Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit, all editions done in your
>browser.
>
>This means that edition of textual XML is possible with automatic
>generation of a patch submitted to gerrit. Therefore, English source
>help files can be edited or corrected directly in master and with
>security and peer review provided by TDF security infra.  Such
>capability will be extremely handy for ad-hoc correction of typos and
>linguistic mistakes we often do in English, as the LibreOffice project
>is developed by many non-English native speakers.
>
>This capacity will let help writers a direct access to patching without
>having to download and build LibreOffice and its help. Although the
>Help
>XML knowledge is still need to correctly write a help page, some of our
>skilled NL leaders and translators can now fix typos directly, without
>passing by the lengthy process of reporting typos, building help and
>more.
>
>Please see a tutorial on editing help source files in our wiki page:
>
>https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/GerritEditing
>
>Happy help page fixing !
>
>Cheers
>-- 
>Olivier Hallot
>LibreOffice Documentation Coordinator
>Comunidade LibreOffice
>Rio de Janeiro - Brasil - Local Time: UTC-03:00
>http://tdf.io/joinus
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Sophia Schröder]

Hi Sophie, *,

If you fix it in Gerrit, it will be overwritten in Pootle. You can
search for it in Opengrok or Gerrit, then correct it in Pootle. You can
also install the .qtz package to get the KeyID of the string
see here how to install it:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language

Cheers
Sophie


Exactly my problem: In Pootle is not such occurence of "Zahl~format" in 
our translation

but a hint as comment: "Format -> Zahl~format".
So I assumed the problem with the wrong written word must be somewhere else,
most probably in my poor knowledge in some .xc* file not covered by Pootle.

--
Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sophia Schröder
---
German Language Team
LibreOffice.org
IRC: SophiaS


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Sophie]

Hi Sophia
Le 11/04/2018 à 11:24, Sophia Schröder a écrit :
> Hi cloph, *,
> 
> many, many thanks, very much appreciated. :-D
> 
> Btw: Someone claimed a misspelled word in German UI: "Zahl~format"
> instead of "Zahlen~format",
> how it were right.
> 
> How can I find and fix such strings? Opengrok and Gerrit? Pootle wasn't
> helpful at all in this regard.

If you fix it in Gerrit, it will be overwritten in Pootle. You can
search for it in Opengrok or Gerrit, then correct it in Pootle. You can
also install the .qtz package to get the KeyID of the string
see here how to install it:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language

Cheers
Sophie

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Sophia Schröder]

Hi cloph, *,

many, many thanks, very much appreciated. :-D

Btw: Someone claimed a misspelled word in German UI: "Zahl~format" 
instead of "Zahlen~format",

how it were right.

How can I find and fix such strings? Opengrok and Gerrit? Pootle wasn't 
helpful at all in this regard.


And is it possible (or even helpful) to enable xmllint for changes in 
.xc* configuration files?



Am 11.04.2018 um 00:59 schrieb Christian Lohmaier:

Hi Sophia, *,

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:52 PM, Sophia Schröder
 wrote:

[…]
And I will also fix the other issues I caused in my patches regarding XML
syntax of course,
hoping the xmllint checker chloph wants to integrate will help me and others
in this regards
so nobody needs to review XML mess in help related commits anymore.

FYI: that is active now - it doesn't build LibreOffice, it just uses
xmllint to check the xhp files against the dtd, and thus should be
pretty quick.

ciao
Christian


--
Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sophia Schröder
---
German Language Team
LibreOffice.org
IRC: SophiaS


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Sophia, *,

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:52 PM, Sophia Schröder
 wrote:
> […]
> And I will also fix the other issues I caused in my patches regarding XML
> syntax of course,
> hoping the xmllint checker chloph wants to integrate will help me and others
> in this regards
> so nobody needs to review XML mess in help related commits anymore.

FYI: that is active now - it doesn't build LibreOffice, it just uses
xmllint to check the xhp files against the dtd, and thus should be
pretty quick.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Sophia Schröder]

Hi,

Regarding adding the space between the first and the second index entry 
inside the bookmarks,
I think it would still be okay to change it to but would cause too much 
noice for too little win (consistency), indeed.

So no need to spend more efforts in this. All I wanted to know. ;-)
It was just a random file I picked and submitted to gerrit to get a 
feedback about this kind of changes.

I did it also in other patches wherein I will revert that.

And I will also fix the other issues I caused in my patches regarding 
XML syntax of course,
hoping the xmllint checker chloph wants to integrate will help me and 
others in this regards

so nobody needs to review XML mess in help related commits anymore.

Am 09.04.2018 um 17:36 schrieb Sophie:

Hi Sophia,
Le 08/04/2018 à 12:01, Sophia Schröder a écrit :

I experienced them in older versions of LibreOffice in German, where the
old behaviour were used.

I changed (and proofreaded, while at it) already our help in German with
the syntax:

blah; blubbfoo;
bar

So there should be correct.

I don't understand what you want to achieve here. The space between
'blah;' and 'blubb' is not needed, the help index is build as blah=first
level, blubb=second level of indentation.
See here for an explanation
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UI_and_Help_files_Content_Guide#.3Cbookmark_value.3E.3C.2Fbookmark_value.3E
I won't add any space because as I said it's a great way to recognize
that it's an index entry.

But I will have a closer look in the next days for examples.
I think the patches with this kind of changes in
can wait and lurk in gerrit meanwhile. ;-)

Others can be merge meanwhile,
b/c the double spaces appear in flowing text only.

There are a lot of double spaces added in sentences where it is real
spaces (and will have an incidence in the look and quality of the en_US
help), I think (I might be wrong) this is the a problem with the help
tool that should be corrected, or at least be removed before committing
the patch. I've absolutely no time to dedicate to it at the moment, but
if someone would like to have a look at it, it would be great.

Cheers
Sophie

Am 08.04.2018 um 11:43 schrieb Martin Srebotnjak:

Hi, Sophia,

I do not see these glitches in LibreOffice help. Can you send me a
screenshot?

Thanks, m.

2018-04-08 11:35 GMT+02:00 Sophia Schröder
:


Hi,

And now the Babilon tower is open to all ...

For years I was asking for a kind of a review process for all new
strings
in UI/help and for the editing process. So someone overlooks all the
changes going in and stops the ones that seem unfit (in langague or
technical sense), thus reducing the repetitive editing of same strings.

Instead, now there is a possibility to edit everything even more
"easily", with even less thinking about it before it is done.

So now we might see a surge in help changes that make many l10n
projects
quite vulnerable, and most probably several edits of same strings in
a row
(a documenter reminding oneself that another thing should be added or
changed or edited, after it is already featured in git).

Hopefully, this function is limited to master, because if this is
available in "stable" versions, this will lead to havoc ...

Lp, m.


--
Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sophia Schröder
---
German Language Team
LibreOffice.org
IRC: SophiaS






--
Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sophia Schröder
---
German Language Team
LibreOffice.org
IRC: SophiaS


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Sophie]

Hi Sophia,
Le 08/04/2018 à 12:01, Sophia Schröder a écrit :
> I experienced them in older versions of LibreOffice in German, where the
> old behaviour were used.
> 
> I changed (and proofreaded, while at it) already our help in German with
> the syntax:
> 
> blah; blubbfoo;
> bar
> 
> So there should be correct.

I don't understand what you want to achieve here. The space between
'blah;' and 'blubb' is not needed, the help index is build as blah=first
level, blubb=second level of indentation.
See here for an explanation
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UI_and_Help_files_Content_Guide#.3Cbookmark_value.3E.3C.2Fbookmark_value.3E
I won't add any space because as I said it's a great way to recognize
that it's an index entry.
> 
> But I will have a closer look in the next days for examples.
> I think the patches with this kind of changes in
> can wait and lurk in gerrit meanwhile. ;-)
> 
> Others can be merge meanwhile,
> b/c the double spaces appear in flowing text only.

There are a lot of double spaces added in sentences where it is real
spaces (and will have an incidence in the look and quality of the en_US
help), I think (I might be wrong) this is the a problem with the help
tool that should be corrected, or at least be removed before committing
the patch. I've absolutely no time to dedicate to it at the moment, but
if someone would like to have a look at it, it would be great.

Cheers
Sophie
> 
> Am 08.04.2018 um 11:43 schrieb Martin Srebotnjak:
>> Hi, Sophia,
>>
>> I do not see these glitches in LibreOffice help. Can you send me a
>> screenshot?
>>
>> Thanks, m.
>>
>> 2018-04-08 11:35 GMT+02:00 Sophia Schröder
>> >> :
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> it causes visual glitches, like comma faults, at least in the old help
>>> system.
>>>
>>> So yes, I think so.
>>>
>>> Assuming the most translation were done already correctly
>>> it is also an opportunity to review own translations.
>>>
>>> Otherwise there are just 2 clicks, no?
>>>
>>> And it is not a long where it may "disturb" translators.
>>> Once it is done, it is done. Except new strings of course.
>>>
>>> And there don't come in a big bunch and I am also testing in the moment,
>>> which are the best practices to get rid of some failures
>>> and to make our help system and files more consistent.
>>> I have no problems with abandoning my patches for good reasons.
>>>
>>> It is a learning process for me too.
>>>
>>> Am 07.04.2018 um 23:11 schrieb Martin Srebotnjak:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> just one example from Gerrit 4 hours ago:
>>> "vector graphics;converting bitmaps"
>>> was changed to:
>>> "vector graphics; converting bitmaps"
>>> See: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/52546/2/source/text/
>>> simpress/guide/vectorize.xhp
>>>
>>> Is that "missing space" an error? Not. What does this change cause? It
>>> causes 100+ translations of that string obsolete, fuzzy,
>>> untranslated, not
>>> shown in builds ... And 100+ localizers must again localize, check, edit
>>> this same string ...
>>>
>>> Is this kind of editing/"cleaning-up" of help really useful/desired?
>>> Not.
>>>
>>> Lp, m.
>>>
>>> 2018-04-07 22:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Srebotnjak :
>>>
 Hi,

 And now the Babilon tower is open to all ...

 For years I was asking for a kind of a review process for all new
 strings
 in UI/help and for the editing process. So someone overlooks all the
 changes going in and stops the ones that seem unfit (in langague or
 technical sense), thus reducing the repetitive editing of same strings.

 Instead, now there is a possibility to edit everything even more
 "easily", with even less thinking about it before it is done.

 So now we might see a surge in help changes that make many l10n
 projects
 quite vulnerable, and most probably several edits of same strings in
 a row
 (a documenter reminding oneself that another thing should be added or
 changed or edited, after it is already featured in git).

 Hopefully, this function is limited to master, because if this is
 available in "stable" versions, this will lead to havoc ...

 Lp, m.

>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>>>
>>> Sophia Schröder
>>> ---
>>> German Language Team
>>> LibreOffice.org
>>> IRC: SophiaS
>>>
>>>
> 


-- 
Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org
GSM: +33683901545
IRC: sophi
Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Sophie Gautier]

Hi,

Le dim. 8 avr. 2018 à 04:20, Olivier Hallot 
a écrit :

> Hello Sophia
>
> Glad you and others liked it.
>
> The Foundation Manifesto includes "to an open and transparent
> peer-reviewed software development process where technical excellence is
> valued"
>
> TDF will not spare efforts to appreciate all contributions by the
> community. Lowering barriers to code contributions is critical to the
> Foundation mission.
>

Breaking others work like builds and translation workflow is not what
exactly TDF values I hope...

>
> And thanks for the patches. Much needed. All of them being reviewed and
> tested by committers.
>

Patches adding spaces in a string for an index? Again I don't see how
adding a lot of work for contributors will help them to contribute. There
are a lot of typo in the new help content that should be corrected before
and not just pushed as is, expecting to be corrected by translators. Asking
more and more to them will just push them away as it's already the case for
several languages. Sorry but I'm really not happy by this dangerous move,
consequences are too high for the moment.
Cheers
Sophie

>
> Kind regards
> Olivier
>
> Em 07/04/2018 16:04, Sophia Schröder escreveu:
> > These are great news! Love it!
> >
> > Exactly what I was asking about a day before in one of our IRC channels,
> > b/c I was clueless about how to use gerrit properly.
> >
> > I uses the opportunity to commit my first patches (only whitespace
> > cleanups for now)
> > to gerrit in time of our Hackfest / German Community Meeting in Hamburg.
> > So yes, it works! :-D
> >
> > What would be really really good were a) a review of course and b) an
> > jenkins/ci buildbot for help
> > for mistakenly merge patches which break master or branches in cases of
> > backport.
> >
> > Am 06.04.2018 um 03:15 schrieb Olivier Hallot:
> >> Hi L10N Community! Breaking news!
> >>
> >> Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit, all editions done in your
> >> browser.
> >>
> >> This means that edition of textual XML is possible with automatic
> >> generation of a patch submitted to gerrit. Therefore, English source
> >> help files can be edited or corrected directly in master and with
> >> security and peer review provided by TDF security infra.  Such
> >> capability will be extremely handy for ad-hoc correction of typos and
> >> linguistic mistakes we often do in English, as the LibreOffice project
> >> is developed by many non-English native speakers.
> >>
> >> This capacity will let help writers a direct access to patching without
> >> having to download and build LibreOffice and its help. Although the Help
> >> XML knowledge is still need to correctly write a help page, some of our
> >> skilled NL leaders and translators can now fix typos directly, without
> >> passing by the lengthy process of reporting typos, building help and
> >> more.
> >>
> >> Please see a tutorial on editing help source files in our wiki page:
> >>
> >> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/GerritEditing
> >>
> >> Happy help page fixing !
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >
>
> --
> Olivier Hallot
> LibreOffice Documentation Coordinator
> Comunidade LibreOffice
> Rio de Janeiro - Brasil - Local Time: UTC-03:00
> http://tdf.io/joinus
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Sophia Schröder]

Am 08.04.2018 12:14, schrieb Martin Srebotnjak:

Well, the double spaces problem ...
I have removed all occurences in the Slovenian help, and now I will be
forced to go through that again manually ... L10n teams/languages do 
not
have same errors, see, and this way we are spending time on things that 
we

might have fixed long ago ...

Besides the fuzzy mark gettext should obviously be extended with a
"source-string-changed-but-it-might-not-affect-your-existing-translation-because-it-was-a-minor-edit"
tag which should not lead to untranslated status of the string in code 
and
the existing translation should be pulled from git as still a valid 
one.


This tag could be called in short "check-translation" or
"minor-source-change" or something similar.


This were the best solution, yes.

--
Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sophia Schröder

---
LibreOffice
German Language Team

IRC: SophiaS

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Martin Srebotnjak]

Well, the double spaces problem ...
I have removed all occurences in the Slovenian help, and now I will be
forced to go through that again manually ... L10n teams/languages do not
have same errors, see, and this way we are spending time on things that we
might have fixed long ago ...

Besides the fuzzy mark gettext should obviously be extended with a
"source-string-changed-but-it-might-not-affect-your-existing-translation-because-it-was-a-minor-edit"
tag which should not lead to untranslated status of the string in code and
the existing translation should be pulled from git as still a valid one.

This tag could be called in short "check-translation" or
"minor-source-change" or something similar.

Is this feasible with the gettext developers?

Lp, m.

2018-04-08 12:01 GMT+02:00 Sophia Schröder :

> I experienced them in older versions of LibreOffice in German, where the
> old behaviour were used.
>
> I changed (and proofreaded, while at it) already our help in German with
> the syntax:
>
> blah; blubbfoo;
> bar
>
> So there should be correct.
>
> But I will have a closer look in the next days for examples.
> I think the patches with this kind of changes in
> can wait and lurk in gerrit meanwhile. ;-)
>
> Others can be merge meanwhile,
> b/c the double spaces appear in flowing text only.
>
>
> Am 08.04.2018 um 11:43 schrieb Martin Srebotnjak:
>
>> Hi, Sophia,
>>
>> I do not see these glitches in LibreOffice help. Can you send me a
>> screenshot?
>>
>> Thanks, m.
>>
>> 2018-04-08 11:35 GMT+02:00 Sophia Schröder > org
>>
>>> :
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> it causes visual glitches, like comma faults, at least in the old help
>>> system.
>>>
>>> So yes, I think so.
>>>
>>> Assuming the most translation were done already correctly
>>> it is also an opportunity to review own translations.
>>>
>>> Otherwise there are just 2 clicks, no?
>>>
>>> And it is not a long where it may "disturb" translators.
>>> Once it is done, it is done. Except new strings of course.
>>>
>>> And there don't come in a big bunch and I am also testing in the moment,
>>> which are the best practices to get rid of some failures
>>> and to make our help system and files more consistent.
>>> I have no problems with abandoning my patches for good reasons.
>>>
>>> It is a learning process for me too.
>>>
>>> Am 07.04.2018 um 23:11 schrieb Martin Srebotnjak:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> just one example from Gerrit 4 hours ago:
>>> "vector graphics;converting bitmaps"
>>> was changed to:
>>> "vector graphics; converting bitmaps"
>>> See: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/52546/2/source/text/
>>> simpress/guide/vectorize.xhp
>>>
>>> Is that "missing space" an error? Not. What does this change cause? It
>>> causes 100+ translations of that string obsolete, fuzzy, untranslated,
>>> not
>>> shown in builds ... And 100+ localizers must again localize, check, edit
>>> this same string ...
>>>
>>> Is this kind of editing/"cleaning-up" of help really useful/desired? Not.
>>>
>>> Lp, m.
>>>
>>> 2018-04-07 22:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Srebotnjak :
>>>
>>> Hi,

 And now the Babilon tower is open to all ...

 For years I was asking for a kind of a review process for all new
 strings
 in UI/help and for the editing process. So someone overlooks all the
 changes going in and stops the ones that seem unfit (in langague or
 technical sense), thus reducing the repetitive editing of same strings.

 Instead, now there is a possibility to edit everything even more
 "easily", with even less thinking about it before it is done.

 So now we might see a surge in help changes that make many l10n projects
 quite vulnerable, and most probably several edits of same strings in a
 row
 (a documenter reminding oneself that another thing should be added or
 changed or edited, after it is already featured in git).

 Hopefully, this function is limited to master, because if this is
 available in "stable" versions, this will lead to havoc ...

 Lp, m.


>>> --
>>> Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>>>
>>> Sophia Schröder
>>> ---
>>> German Language Team
>>> LibreOffice.org
>>> IRC: SophiaS
>>>
>>>
>>>
> --
> Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
> Sophia Schröder
> ---
> German Language Team
> LibreOffice.org
> IRC: SophiaS
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Sophia Schröder]

I experienced them in older versions of LibreOffice in German, where the 
old behaviour were used.


I changed (and proofreaded, while at it) already our help in German with 
the syntax:


blah; blubbfoo; 
bar


So there should be correct.

But I will have a closer look in the next days for examples.
I think the patches with this kind of changes in
can wait and lurk in gerrit meanwhile. ;-)

Others can be merge meanwhile,
b/c the double spaces appear in flowing text only.

Am 08.04.2018 um 11:43 schrieb Martin Srebotnjak:

Hi, Sophia,

I do not see these glitches in LibreOffice help. Can you send me a
screenshot?

Thanks, m.

2018-04-08 11:35 GMT+02:00 Sophia Schröder :


Hi,

And now the Babilon tower is open to all ...

For years I was asking for a kind of a review process for all new strings
in UI/help and for the editing process. So someone overlooks all the
changes going in and stops the ones that seem unfit (in langague or
technical sense), thus reducing the repetitive editing of same strings.

Instead, now there is a possibility to edit everything even more
"easily", with even less thinking about it before it is done.

So now we might see a surge in help changes that make many l10n projects
quite vulnerable, and most probably several edits of same strings in a row
(a documenter reminding oneself that another thing should be added or
changed or edited, after it is already featured in git).

Hopefully, this function is limited to master, because if this is
available in "stable" versions, this will lead to havoc ...

Lp, m.



--
Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sophia Schröder
---
German Language Team
LibreOffice.org
IRC: SophiaS




--
Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sophia Schröder
---
German Language Team
LibreOffice.org
IRC: SophiaS


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Martin Srebotnjak]

Hi, Sophia,

I do not see these glitches in LibreOffice help. Can you send me a
screenshot?

Thanks, m.

2018-04-08 11:35 GMT+02:00 Sophia Schröder :

> Hi,
>
> it causes visual glitches, like comma faults, at least in the old help
> system.
>
> So yes, I think so.
>
> Assuming the most translation were done already correctly
> it is also an opportunity to review own translations.
>
> Otherwise there are just 2 clicks, no?
>
> And it is not a long where it may "disturb" translators.
> Once it is done, it is done. Except new strings of course.
>
> And there don't come in a big bunch and I am also testing in the moment,
> which are the best practices to get rid of some failures
> and to make our help system and files more consistent.
> I have no problems with abandoning my patches for good reasons.
>
> It is a learning process for me too.
>
> Am 07.04.2018 um 23:11 schrieb Martin Srebotnjak:
>
> Hi,
>
> just one example from Gerrit 4 hours ago:
> "vector graphics;converting bitmaps"
> was changed to:
> "vector graphics; converting bitmaps"
> See: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/52546/2/source/text/
> simpress/guide/vectorize.xhp
>
> Is that "missing space" an error? Not. What does this change cause? It
> causes 100+ translations of that string obsolete, fuzzy, untranslated, not
> shown in builds ... And 100+ localizers must again localize, check, edit
> this same string ...
>
> Is this kind of editing/"cleaning-up" of help really useful/desired? Not.
>
> Lp, m.
>
> 2018-04-07 22:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Srebotnjak :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> And now the Babilon tower is open to all ...
>>
>> For years I was asking for a kind of a review process for all new strings
>> in UI/help and for the editing process. So someone overlooks all the
>> changes going in and stops the ones that seem unfit (in langague or
>> technical sense), thus reducing the repetitive editing of same strings.
>>
>> Instead, now there is a possibility to edit everything even more
>> "easily", with even less thinking about it before it is done.
>>
>> So now we might see a surge in help changes that make many l10n projects
>> quite vulnerable, and most probably several edits of same strings in a row
>> (a documenter reminding oneself that another thing should be added or
>> changed or edited, after it is already featured in git).
>>
>> Hopefully, this function is limited to master, because if this is
>> available in "stable" versions, this will lead to havoc ...
>>
>> Lp, m.
>>
>
>
> --
> Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
> Sophia Schröder
> ---
> German Language Team
> LibreOffice.org
> IRC: SophiaS
>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Sophia Schröder]

Hi,

it causes visual glitches, like comma faults, at least in the old help 
system.


So yes, I think so.

Assuming the most translation were done already correctly
it is also an opportunity to review own translations.

Otherwise there are just 2 clicks, no?

And it is not a long where it may "disturb" translators.
Once it is done, it is done. Except new strings of course.

And there don't come in a big bunch and I am also testing in the moment,
which are the best practices to get rid of some failures
and to make our help system and files more consistent.
I have no problems with abandoning my patches for good reasons.

It is a learning process for me too.


Am 07.04.2018 um 23:11 schrieb Martin Srebotnjak:

Hi,

just one example from Gerrit 4 hours ago:
"vector graphics;converting bitmaps"
was changed to:
"vector graphics; converting bitmaps"
See: 
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/52546/2/source/text/simpress/guide/vectorize.xhp


Is that "missing space" an error? Not. What does this change cause? It 
causes 100+ translations of that string obsolete, fuzzy, untranslated, 
not shown in builds ... And 100+ localizers must again localize, 
check, edit this same string ...


Is this kind of editing/"cleaning-up" of help really useful/desired? Not.

Lp, m.

2018-04-07 22:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Srebotnjak >:


Hi,

And now the Babilon tower is open to all ...
For years I was asking for a kind of a review process for all new
strings in UI/help and for the editing process. So someone
overlooks all the changes going in and stops the ones that seem
unfit (in langague or technical sense), thus reducing the
repetitive editing of same strings.

Instead, now there is a possibility to edit everything even more
"easily", with even less thinking about it before it is done.

So now we might see a surge in help changes that make many l10n
projects quite vulnerable, and most probably several edits of same
strings in a row (a documenter reminding oneself that another
thing should be added or changed or edited, after it is already
featured in git).

Hopefully, this function is limited to master, because if this is
available in "stable" versions, this will lead to havoc ...

Lp, m.




--
Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sophia Schröder
---
German Language Team
LibreOffice.org
IRC: SophiaS


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Olivier Hallot]

Hello Sophia

Glad you and others liked it.

The Foundation Manifesto includes "to an open and transparent
peer-reviewed software development process where technical excellence is
valued"

TDF will not spare efforts to appreciate all contributions by the
community. Lowering barriers to code contributions is critical to the
Foundation mission.

And thanks for the patches. Much needed. All of them being reviewed and
tested by committers.

Kind regards
Olivier

Em 07/04/2018 16:04, Sophia Schröder escreveu:
> These are great news! Love it!
> 
> Exactly what I was asking about a day before in one of our IRC channels,
> b/c I was clueless about how to use gerrit properly.
> 
> I uses the opportunity to commit my first patches (only whitespace
> cleanups for now)
> to gerrit in time of our Hackfest / German Community Meeting in Hamburg.
> So yes, it works! :-D
> 
> What would be really really good were a) a review of course and b) an
> jenkins/ci buildbot for help
> for mistakenly merge patches which break master or branches in cases of
> backport.
> 
> Am 06.04.2018 um 03:15 schrieb Olivier Hallot:
>> Hi L10N Community! Breaking news!
>>
>> Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit, all editions done in your
>> browser.
>>
>> This means that edition of textual XML is possible with automatic
>> generation of a patch submitted to gerrit. Therefore, English source
>> help files can be edited or corrected directly in master and with
>> security and peer review provided by TDF security infra.  Such
>> capability will be extremely handy for ad-hoc correction of typos and
>> linguistic mistakes we often do in English, as the LibreOffice project
>> is developed by many non-English native speakers.
>>
>> This capacity will let help writers a direct access to patching without
>> having to download and build LibreOffice and its help. Although the Help
>> XML knowledge is still need to correctly write a help page, some of our
>> skilled NL leaders and translators can now fix typos directly, without
>> passing by the lengthy process of reporting typos, building help and
>> more.
>>
>> Please see a tutorial on editing help source files in our wiki page:
>>
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/GerritEditing
>>
>> Happy help page fixing !
>>
>> Cheers
> 

-- 
Olivier Hallot
LibreOffice Documentation Coordinator
Comunidade LibreOffice
Rio de Janeiro - Brasil - Local Time: UTC-03:00
http://tdf.io/joinus

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Martin Srebotnjak]

Hi,

just one example from Gerrit 4 hours ago:
"vector graphics;converting bitmaps"
was changed to:
"vector graphics; converting bitmaps"
See:
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/52546/2/source/text/simpress/guide/vectorize.xhp

Is that "missing space" an error? Not. What does this change cause? It
causes 100+ translations of that string obsolete, fuzzy, untranslated, not
shown in builds ... And 100+ localizers must again localize, check, edit
this same string ...

Is this kind of editing/"cleaning-up" of help really useful/desired? Not.

Lp, m.

2018-04-07 22:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Srebotnjak :

> Hi,
>
> And now the Babilon tower is open to all ...
>
> For years I was asking for a kind of a review process for all new strings
> in UI/help and for the editing process. So someone overlooks all the
> changes going in and stops the ones that seem unfit (in langague or
> technical sense), thus reducing the repetitive editing of same strings.
>
> Instead, now there is a possibility to edit everything even more "easily",
> with even less thinking about it before it is done.
>
> So now we might see a surge in help changes that make many l10n projects
> quite vulnerable, and most probably several edits of same strings in a row
> (a documenter reminding oneself that another thing should be added or
> changed or edited, after it is already featured in git).
>
> Hopefully, this function is limited to master, because if this is
> available in "stable" versions, this will lead to havoc ...
>
> Lp, m.
>

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Martin Srebotnjak]

Hi,

And now the Babilon tower is open to all ...

For years I was asking for a kind of a review process for all new strings
in UI/help and for the editing process. So someone overlooks all the
changes going in and stops the ones that seem unfit (in langague or
technical sense), thus reducing the repetitive editing of same strings.

Instead, now there is a possibility to edit everything even more "easily",
with even less thinking about it before it is done.

So now we might see a surge in help changes that make many l10n projects
quite vulnerable, and most probably several edits of same strings in a row
(a documenter reminding oneself that another thing should be added or
changed or edited, after it is already featured in git).

Hopefully, this function is limited to master, because if this is available
in "stable" versions, this will lead to havoc ...

Lp, m.

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Sophia Schröder]

These are great news! Love it!

Exactly what I was asking about a day before in one of our IRC channels,
b/c I was clueless about how to use gerrit properly.

I uses the opportunity to commit my first patches (only whitespace 
cleanups for now)

to gerrit in time of our Hackfest / German Community Meeting in Hamburg.
So yes, it works! :-D

What would be really really good were a) a review of course and b) an 
jenkins/ci buildbot for help
for mistakenly merge patches which break master or branches in cases of 
backport.


Am 06.04.2018 um 03:15 schrieb Olivier Hallot:

Hi L10N Community! Breaking news!

Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit, all editions done in your
browser.

This means that edition of textual XML is possible with automatic
generation of a patch submitted to gerrit. Therefore, English source
help files can be edited or corrected directly in master and with
security and peer review provided by TDF security infra.  Such
capability will be extremely handy for ad-hoc correction of typos and
linguistic mistakes we often do in English, as the LibreOffice project
is developed by many non-English native speakers.

This capacity will let help writers a direct access to patching without
having to download and build LibreOffice and its help. Although the Help
XML knowledge is still need to correctly write a help page, some of our
skilled NL leaders and translators can now fix typos directly, without
passing by the lengthy process of reporting typos, building help and more.

Please see a tutorial on editing help source files in our wiki page:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/GerritEditing

Happy help page fixing !

Cheers


--
Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sophia Schröder
---
German Language Team
LibreOffice.org
IRC: SophiaS


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

[Cor Nouws]

Olivier Hallot wrote on 06-04-18 03:15:
> Hi L10N Community! Breaking news!
> 
> Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit, all editions done in your
> browser.
> 
> This means that edition of textual XML is possible with automatic
> generation of a patch submitted to gerrit. Therefore, English source
> help files can be edited or corrected directly in master and with
> ...
> Please see a tutorial on editing help source files in our wiki page:
> 
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/GerritEditing

Great news, Olivier, Thanks!

I hope to be able to use it often :)

Cheers,
Cor

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