Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Insufficient privileges for saving translations
Hi Christian, Tks for you complete answer. I don't have access to weblate's statistics either (why), so it's difficult to get a clear picture of what a suggester is doing. L10n project doesn't provide statistics as QA project does(may be in the NL-List as mentionned ? ) I've tried to review a few recent French suggesters profil , 99% are inactive, unknown and most of them haven't translated more than a hundred strings. I think translation should be an ecosystem of knowledge, i doubt that "someone shows up to carry the torch" suddenly spontaneously with the right level of experience that 20 years experienced translators judged to have I think that suggester statut is not something attractive and the message "Insufficient privileges for saving translations" is a turnoff for newcomers. Best. Régis Perdreau Le ven. 5 avr. 2024 à 15:30, Christian Lohmaier a écrit : > Hi Regis, *, > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Regis Perdreau > wrote: > > > > The problem arises in all languages, and in many languages, sugesters > > remain sugesters forever. > > Each language team is free to handle it how they feel fit. Some allow > anonymous suggestions, some require users to be registered, some have > everyone being able to translate directly, others prefer to use > suggestions/to review submissions before integrating. > > > How many sugesters become translators each year? > > There are absolutely no official criteria for becoming a translator; you > > are subject to the judgement of the "official" translators... > > Yes, that's basically it. The ones dealing with the translation for > many years already decide on how translation should happen, they are > the ones who can judge best. It is unfortunate, but not everyone who > shows up to contribute does so in good faith (thankfully rare to have > trolls, but apparently not unheard of), but some might show up with > good intentions, but are just not familiar with LibreOffice/the terms > used and introduce lots of inconsistency and thus confusion. That of > course is partly to blame on the language not working to create a > glossary of the common terms, but that's mostly due to the history of > the project/that there was no way to create a glossary in the old > translation system.../not everything can be covered by a glossary. > Starts with the level of politeness the user should be addressed and > goes to specific terms for stuff like cursor vs caret, etc. > > > Should we > > wait for translators to retire and sugesters to become rare? > > No - of course when the previous translators are not responsive and > someone shows up to carry the torch, there's no problem in granting > the necessary privileges, but as long as there's an active > translator/an active translation team there's no need to change the > policy/having admins bypass their wishes and willy-nilly grant > privileges - that will only result in them leaving. (and I personally > would rather keep those who are already known to stick with the > project than risking putting the translation onto a newbie that might > lose interest in the next month already - pissing off the ones with > experience just to not come across as "difficult" is a bad choice from > my POV). > > I think it isn't really a big problem that not everyone can make > direct translations, after all even people with translation privileges > still sometimes chose to submit something as a suggestion - of course > hard to know the details since naturally most of those discussions > likely happen in the corresponding NL-lists/communication channels and > do not end up on this list. > > > I think weblate was a very bad choice. > > Weblate has nothing to do with it, that policy would be the same in any > tool. > You might have other reasons why you think weblate is a bad choice, > but how the LibreOffice project decides to manage permissions > certainly is not a problem with weblate. You could give anyone > translate permissions in weblate as well, it is just something we > think would be a bad idea, again proven by the hesitation by the > Korean team who had trolls in other projects already. > It is the same with source-code contributions - we don't give anyone > direct-commit privileges from the get-go. We accept patches in gerrit > from anyone, but only after the user did show that the quality of the > contributions is good and not just a one-off, then ESC can suggest > granting the privileges. > > Also suggestions and accepting them isn't the only way the project > can handle it, the alternative would be translation with review or > setting up suggestions with voting - but that is more or less the > same/would make more sense in larger translation teams. > > > TDF never speaks about sugesters in > > translation report > > (see > > > https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2023/06/09/libreoffice-native-language-projects-tdfs-annual-report-2022/ > > ) > > That's also not a fair representation, since that also doesn't > explicitly mention
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Insufficient privileges for saving translations
Hi Regis, *, On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Regis Perdreau wrote: > > The problem arises in all languages, and in many languages, sugesters > remain sugesters forever. Each language team is free to handle it how they feel fit. Some allow anonymous suggestions, some require users to be registered, some have everyone being able to translate directly, others prefer to use suggestions/to review submissions before integrating. > How many sugesters become translators each year? > There are absolutely no official criteria for becoming a translator; you > are subject to the judgement of the "official" translators... Yes, that's basically it. The ones dealing with the translation for many years already decide on how translation should happen, they are the ones who can judge best. It is unfortunate, but not everyone who shows up to contribute does so in good faith (thankfully rare to have trolls, but apparently not unheard of), but some might show up with good intentions, but are just not familiar with LibreOffice/the terms used and introduce lots of inconsistency and thus confusion. That of course is partly to blame on the language not working to create a glossary of the common terms, but that's mostly due to the history of the project/that there was no way to create a glossary in the old translation system.../not everything can be covered by a glossary. Starts with the level of politeness the user should be addressed and goes to specific terms for stuff like cursor vs caret, etc. > Should we > wait for translators to retire and sugesters to become rare? No - of course when the previous translators are not responsive and someone shows up to carry the torch, there's no problem in granting the necessary privileges, but as long as there's an active translator/an active translation team there's no need to change the policy/having admins bypass their wishes and willy-nilly grant privileges - that will only result in them leaving. (and I personally would rather keep those who are already known to stick with the project than risking putting the translation onto a newbie that might lose interest in the next month already - pissing off the ones with experience just to not come across as "difficult" is a bad choice from my POV). I think it isn't really a big problem that not everyone can make direct translations, after all even people with translation privileges still sometimes chose to submit something as a suggestion - of course hard to know the details since naturally most of those discussions likely happen in the corresponding NL-lists/communication channels and do not end up on this list. > I think weblate was a very bad choice. Weblate has nothing to do with it, that policy would be the same in any tool. You might have other reasons why you think weblate is a bad choice, but how the LibreOffice project decides to manage permissions certainly is not a problem with weblate. You could give anyone translate permissions in weblate as well, it is just something we think would be a bad idea, again proven by the hesitation by the Korean team who had trolls in other projects already. It is the same with source-code contributions - we don't give anyone direct-commit privileges from the get-go. We accept patches in gerrit from anyone, but only after the user did show that the quality of the contributions is good and not just a one-off, then ESC can suggest granting the privileges. Also suggestions and accepting them isn't the only way the project can handle it, the alternative would be translation with review or setting up suggestions with voting - but that is more or less the same/would make more sense in larger translation teams. > TDF never speaks about sugesters in > translation report > (see > https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2023/06/09/libreoffice-native-language-projects-tdfs-annual-report-2022/ > ) That's also not a fair representation, since that also doesn't explicitly mention translators/doesn't make any distinction between users with direct submission privileges and those who are "only" suggesting. The document speaks about the language community, and that includes both translators and suggestors. Same with our dashboard, that also includes suggestions in the default view/stats > There was a survey, what are the conclusions and which step next ? The results of the survey were published here: https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2024/03/29/results-from-our-survey-of-libreoffice-localisation-tooling-and-workflows/ And next steps are to add machine translation But participation was quite low and not everyone feels the same about any issue, so naturally people rely on feedback. Also I strongly disagree that users with suggestions wouldn't get credit for that. Weblate shows suggestions in the user profile and our dashboard reflects that as well. If you have examples where suggestions are ignored in terms of giving people credit, then please point those out, those omissions are certainly
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Insufficient privileges for saving translations
Hi, The problem arises in all languages, and in many languages, sugesters remain sugesters forever. How many sugesters become translators each year? There are absolutely no official criteria for becoming a translator; you are subject to the judgement of the "official" translators... Should we wait for translators to retire and sugesters to become rare? I think weblate was a very bad choice. TDF never speaks about sugesters in translation report (see https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2023/06/09/libreoffice-native-language-projects-tdfs-annual-report-2022/ ) There was a survey, what are the conclusions and which step next ? Best, Régis Perdreau Le ven. 5 avr. 2024 à 08:15, DaeHyun Sung a écrit : > Hello, I'm DaeHyun Sung, LibreOffice Korean Team leader. > > I don't want to give you a translator role, currently. > Because, Many FLOSS Trolls(famous trolls, sebul, > https://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-korean/2020/05/msg00025.html & > daemul72 https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-kr/2021-May/31.html ) > bully FLOSS translators & contributor and make Korean Translation > weird. > > So, you are currently only able to make suggestions, and if your > proposed translations are good, I'll ask LibreOffice L10N Team to give > you the Korean translator role. > > I'm sorry for the inconvenience, but, I can't help it because of the > quality of the translation. > > If you want to attend the LibreOffice Korean team, you can access the > Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/166494850651235 and the > discord channel https://discord.gg/c3uhkBfj > > Sincerely, > DaeHyun Sung > > 2024년 4월 5일 (금) 오후 1:39, Dongha Hwang 님이 작성: > > > > Hi, I'm trying to translate LibreOffice into Korean, but the weblate > shows > > me the message "Insufficient privileges for saving translations". > > My weblate username is "LuxuryCoop". Could you help me with this? > > > > Sincerely, > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > > Problems? > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > > Posting guidelines + more: > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy > > > > -- > Korean Open Source Developer, Contributor, Translator. > LibreOffice, KDE, GNOME Contributor. > The Document Foundation Member in Korea. > GNOME Foundation Member in Korea. > Interested in LibreOffice, KDE, GNOME, Web, etc. > LibreOffice – free and open source office suite: > https://www.libreoffice.org > Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Insufficient privileges for saving translations
Hello, I'm DaeHyun Sung, LibreOffice Korean Team leader. I don't want to give you a translator role, currently. Because, Many FLOSS Trolls(famous trolls, sebul, https://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-korean/2020/05/msg00025.html & daemul72 https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-kr/2021-May/31.html ) bully FLOSS translators & contributor and make Korean Translation weird. So, you are currently only able to make suggestions, and if your proposed translations are good, I'll ask LibreOffice L10N Team to give you the Korean translator role. I'm sorry for the inconvenience, but, I can't help it because of the quality of the translation. If you want to attend the LibreOffice Korean team, you can access the Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/166494850651235 and the discord channel https://discord.gg/c3uhkBfj Sincerely, DaeHyun Sung 2024년 4월 5일 (금) 오후 1:39, Dongha Hwang 님이 작성: > > Hi, I'm trying to translate LibreOffice into Korean, but the weblate shows > me the message "Insufficient privileges for saving translations". > My weblate username is "LuxuryCoop". Could you help me with this? > > Sincerely, > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy -- Korean Open Source Developer, Contributor, Translator. LibreOffice, KDE, GNOME Contributor. The Document Foundation Member in Korea. GNOME Foundation Member in Korea. Interested in LibreOffice, KDE, GNOME, Web, etc. LibreOffice – free and open source office suite: https://www.libreoffice.org Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Insufficient privileges for saving translations
Hi Sophie, czw., 27 lut 2020 o 11:34 sophi napisał(a): > That should be ok now. > Cheers > Sophie > Indeed. Thanks! Regards Adam Rak -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Insufficient privileges for saving translations
Hi Adam, Le 26/02/2020 à 20:31, Adam a écrit : > Hi! > > Recently, I've done a lot of Polish translations. Now, my account only > allows sending suggestions due to recent Weblate changes. I'm asking for > privileges for saving translations. That should be ok now. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org GSM: +33683901545 IRC: sophi Foundation coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Insufficient privileges for saving translations
Hi Eugene, Le 26/02/2020 à 20:35, Євген Кондратюк a écrit : > Exactly the same bug. > > Ukrainian translator "lumino" You should be able to translate now. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org GSM: +33683901545 IRC: sophi Foundation coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Insufficient privileges for saving translations
Exactly the same bug. Ukrainian translator "lumino" --- Regards, Eugene On 26.02.20 21:31, Adam wrote: > Hi! > > Recently, I've done a lot of Polish translations. Now, my account only > allows sending suggestions due to recent Weblate changes. I'm asking for > privileges for saving translations. > > Regards > Adam Rak > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
