[lace] Carmen’s Lace

[H M Clarke]

I found a picture on the photostream tab of Arachne Flickr. If you are looking
at it on a phone then you need to scroll across to the left to see this
option. I hope this helps.

Regards, Helen.

> On Oct 9, 2021, at 18:03, Elizabeth Ligeti  wrote:
>
> Where do I find Carmen’s lace, please? I cannot see a section with her
name
> (can’t remember her surname) .
>
> Regards from Liz. L.

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[lace] Springetts/Fountains Catalogues

[H M Clarke]

Hi,

I have a lot of midlands bobbins that were from the ‘bobbin a month’ sets that 
were sold by Springetts and then Fountains. Some of the sets are quite obvious 
but I need help with others. Does anyone have any old catalogues that list what 
was in each set? My collection includes bone, ebony and other woods and covers 
a number of years. 

Thank you in advance,

Helen (on the disconnected bit of the western mainland of Canada, a country 
that seems to have forgotten that it is supposed to be cold!)

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Re: [lace] Picture on Flicker

[H M Clarke]

Thank you to Sue and Jocelyn for explaining that there are options to the left 
of Albums. My logical, right-handed mind tends to assume that we are shown the 
leftmost options. 

> On Apr 14, 2021, at 17:56, Sue Babbs  wrote:
> 
> Hi All
> 
> When someone writes to say they have just posted a photo, I suggest you start 
> by looking at the photostream on https://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/  as 
> it shows the most recent photos first. 

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Re: [lace] Picture on Flicker

[H M Clarke]

Am I the only one who struggles to find specific pictures in the Flickr albums? 
Despite looking several times I still can’t see the mythical hankie. This isn’t 
the first time I have had this problem either. 

Helen (on the west coast of mainland Canada where the weather people seem to 
have turned over two pages of the calendar by mistake for it is ridiculously 
warm!)

> Yes Karisse, Carmen Roig is a Spanish lacemaker, and the hanky is worked in 
> Ret-Fi, our Catalonian Blonda.

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Re: [lace] Lace quote

[H M Clarke]

I don’t know where my copy of Le Pompe is at the moment so I cannot check. It 
is an interesting quote though I would question its accuracy. In what way does 
anyone need lace? Or even find it useful? Unless you have to make a lace 
trimmed dress, lace curtains, or similar? Lacemaking was useful in the areas 
and times of such things and lacemakers needed to make some money though I 
don’t think that is what it is trying to say. Am I missing something? Perhaps 
it is because most of my ancestry consists of country peasants whose lives 
would not have included any lace. 

Regards, Helen (on the west coast of mainland Canada). 

> *Lace is a work not only beautiful but useful and needful.*

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Re: [lace] Goddess of Lace?

[H M Clarke]

I agree with the first part of Adele’s message. There isn’t a goddess of lace 
because lacemaking postdates the age of specific gods and goddesses. Even in 
more modern polytheistic cultures this would be the case because there is no 
evidence (as far as I’m aware) of any lace existing prior to contact with the 
masses. 

Where I don’t agree is that we should make any attempt to manufacture a link. 
Why would we want to? What would it give any of us? You might as well choose 
someone associated with lacemaking and call them a god(dess). 

My two cents worth!

Helen (further along the west coast of Canada but without any road links, where 
it is a beautiful sunny day)

> On Dec 5, 2020, at 15:04, Adele Shaak  wrote:
> 
> H. I would guess there isn’t one, given that lacemaking developed in 
> Europe in the late 15th century, long after people only believed in the one 
> God. Lacemakers did have patron saints, of course - Saint Catherine and Saint 
> Andrew, depending on where the lacemaker lived, and probably other saints in 
> other areas. But they would only be saints, not goddesses.
> 
> 

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Re: [lace] Sarah Dazeley hanging bobbin

[H M Clarke]

For more information on Mrs Dazeley:

https://murderpedia.org/female.D/d/dazley-sarah.htm

I would have thought that these bobbins would have been of extra interest
compared to the other hanging bobbins. Someone must have one! Perhaps Brian
could write a special page on his website in such a way that it gets picked up
by the media?!

> On Jan 26, 2020, at 16:20, Cindy from Dallas  wrote:
>
> Forgive my ignorance, but what is a “hanging bobbin”?
>
> Cindy from Dallas
> Ravelry ID:cinhad
> knittingyards.wordpress.com
>
>> On Jan 26, 2020, at 5:53 AM,  
wrote:
>>
>> Springett says no one has ever seen it! I other collectors have never seen
it.  Did it exist?  I think so, The bobbin turners (as now) appear to be able
to sell "hanging bobbins" for good money.
>>
>>
>> I have recently spent months trying to find "lost" bobbins and it is very
hard and so far my quest for Marian Powys "lost Honiton" bobbins has failed!
>>
>> Maybe we will wake up one day and see it pictured in the Lace Guild
journal!  I hope so.
>>
>> Brian

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Re: [lace] Wedding lace

[H M Clarke]

I would be the last person to suggest that I have any more knowledge than the 
rest of you. That doesn’t stop me pretending sometimes so here goes ...

I would like to put the idea out there that many of the antique handkerchiefs 
were used by men. Their fashions were more ornate and eye catching than their 
female equivalents. A gentleman would have a larger handkerchief or it could be 
a kerchief. Even when ladies were happily waving their handkerchief in their 
hand, it was fully unfolded and so maybe smaller than we imagine? Also, have I 
missed a reference to wedding handkerchiefs being a real thing in olden times? 
I certainly have not seen Alice’s message on this topic. 

End of my tuppence worth (we got rid of our ‘penny’ years ago but my old 
country still has theirs). 

Helen. 

> Antique examples were extremely large,15-20" of fabric. Smaller items are
> usually described as chalice covers.
> http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/215260?sortBy=Relevance
> shows a handkerchief 15inches square.
> 
> Annette Meldrum in a rainy, South Coast NSW, Australia

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Re: [lace] Wedding lace

[H M Clarke]

Hi Adele,

That does sound like an oversize lady’s handkerchief, even today. My ‘antique’ 
hankies are far smaller, less than half the dimensions including significant 
amounts of lace. 

As for the wedding part of it, I was not aware of any such tradition until I 
emigrated and found local lacemakers. It is not something that played any part 
of any wedding I went to or heard about. Before anyone contradicts me, I would 
explain that I come from peasant stock almost entirely from East Anglia in 
England so cannot comment about other regions or more posh weddings. Then 
again, I have no recollection of wedding handkerchiefs being mentioned during 
any of the British royal weddings either. As a cynic, I would suggest that the 
wedding tag was to attract extra attention to the piece :-/

I would be interested in reading about the experiences in other parts of the 
world as well as identification of Adele’s treasure. 

Regards, Helen in Adele’s part of the world 

> On Jun 23, 2019, at 10:18, Adele Shaak  wrote:
> 
> 

> Does anybody know anything about antique wedding lace?
> 
> I have a piece of Duchesse lace that is approx. 13 inches (33 cm) square.

> 

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Re: [lace] A puzzle and an updated website

[H M Clarke]

Thank you Jean and David. I just checked out your website while walking my dog 
on the beach (life is tough, sometimes). It all looked wonderful and each page 
loaded extremely quickly. I appreciate the efforts that went into it all. Good 
luck with finding out the mystery item’s provenance. 

Regards, Helen on the sunny west coast of mainland Canada 

> On Jun 20, 2019, at 15:10, Jean Leader  wrote:
> 
> David has been busy and has now updated my website to make it 'mobile 
> friendly’. 

> https://www.jeanleader.net/collection/ceramic.html
> 
> Jean

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[lace] Lassen

[H M Clarke]

Thank you to everyone who participated in the lassen discussion. It brought up 
more questions than answers but that is what historical topics tend to do. I do 
hope that some of our silent majority also found it interesting. 

If anyone has anything further to add then do please pipe up. Or if it has 
triggered your own questions then why not put it to the rest for their 
thoughts. 

For now, I am going to consider the error of my ways and battle on with a hot, 
dry, summer. 

Regards, Helen. 

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[lace] Lassen question

[H M Clarke]

Hi,

Since the list is silent, I would like to ask an historical question. I will 
state here that I have asked the question before years ago but didn’t get a 
satisfactory answer so here I go again ...

For lassen (I think that is the word), where the ends of lace are overlapped 
and (almost) invisibly joined by oversewing, what thread did they use?

We often hear about how the finest threads were used to make the lace. Then I 
got an answer that said that the lassen thread was six times finer than that. 
Presumably they always used the same type of thread (linen, cotton, silk or 
whatever) for both. Therefore, I am in something of a quandary and I am really 
hoping that someone can explain. Was there some secret extra-fine thread that 
was only available in short lengths? Whatever it was, it had to be strong and 
well-spun and available to these skilled artists. Just how fine are we talking 
about? I understand that there are a few specialists who still do this work so 
maybe one of you have used their talents and know something about it? 

Over to you all, thank you in advance,

Helen (in hot British Columbia)

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[lace] Turning Lace Bobbins - Thank You

[H M Clarke]

I have been overwhelmed by stuff recently and I have been detrimental in 
thanking all the wonderful people who replied to my question. Some were private 
and others sent to the list. I am very grateful to you all and I am now clear 
on the book’s contents. I haven’t had a chance to look at his website, or 
indeed others mentioned, but I will as soon as things calm down a bit. 

I recommend you all to contact the list regularly as it is a truly excellent 
set of resources, regardless of your particular lace interest. 

In the meantime I hope that you are all enjoying beautiful weather for your 
particular season. We are here on the west coast of mainland Canada though the 
nights are drawing in at a rapid rate. 

Regards, Helen. 

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[lace] Turning Lace Bobbins

[H M Clarke]

Greetings, oh wise lacemakers. 

I am interested in David Springett’s book “Turning Lace Bobbins”. Since it is 
long out of print, I am unable to look at a copy first. I am looking for the 
‘tricks of the trade’ for doing the different decorative styles rather than 
topics such as ‘how to turn a basic bobbin’ or ‘choosing or setting up your 
lathe’ or even ‘how to turn bone’. Therefore I am looking to you for more 
information. 

Do you have this book? Is it any good? What topics does it cover? How do you 
think it compares with my ‘wish list’ above?

If anyone knows of a cheap copy then I would be delighted to hear that as well 
;-)

Thank you in advance,

Helen in the sunny west coast of mainland Canada, where most people are 
recovering from Thanksgiving 

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[lace] Needle lace needles

[H M Clarke]

Hi,

I have a question for those of you who do, or know about, the finest needle 
laces. What size needle do you use? I’m thinking about when you use really fine 
thread (180 cotton, maybe). 

Thank you in advance, Helen (on the sunny west coast of mainland Canada)

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Re: [lace] Oldest lace group

[H M Clarke]

There are many crafts who have made the journey from employment with its 
associated training to a hobby with groups of likeminded people gathering and 
sharing their knowledge. I suspect that many of us have multiple interests in 
this way. 

Guilds come together because of an existing interest rather than generating 
said interest. They certainly help to spread the word and provide learning 
opportunities. 

I don’t know the history of the IOLI. Presumably it didn’t just appear from 
nowhere. Who were its founders? Where did they meet and how? How did their 
smaller groups start? Do those groups still exist? They may have changed names 
and/or locations. It would be interesting to trace it to its source(s) rather 
like exploring a major river. That would provide plenty of opportunity to 
research the spread of lace interest throughout the USA. It would also have 
many fascinating links to Europe, I suspect. 

My C$0.02. 

> On Jun 17, 2018, at 09:41, Devon Thein  wrote:
> 
> The International Organization of Lace dates its start to 1953. I just
> looked up The Lace Guild. It seems it was established in 1976.
> 
> Would it be true to say that the International Organization of Lace,
> Inc is the oldest continuing lace group?

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Re: [lace] computer programmers and lace

[H M Clarke]

I started out as a programmer in 1983 (I did a sandwich degree in maths and 
that was my year ‘in industry’). I had been introduced to lacemaking in the 
1970s since one of my grandmas made lace (btw, I’m still tracking down 
information to send to Suffolk). 

I worked in the defence industry using languages specific to our computers. One 
(Fixpac) was a low level language where we were directly manipulating the bits 
and bytes - space was at a premium in those days. The other (Coral) was a 
higher level language which compiled down to Fixpac (both were proprietary to 
my then employer, Ferranti, as was the hardware). This was probably about as 
close as you could get to a lacemaking equivalent. However at no point did I 
associate one with the other. 

To me the link is logic (one of my strengths, and weaknesses) with the ability 
to also be creative in how you manipulated the component parts to produce 
something powerful. Isn’t this also the basis of the early machines for making 
lace? 

IMHO, to see lace within a computer programme would be unlikely unless you were 
programming something similar - weaving perhaps? For me, you would probably 
need to go back to when the lacemaking machines were being conceived and have 
somebody who made lace by hand and then saw how to translate the steps into a 
mechanised version. 

As usual, just my C$0.02. 

Helen, who is trying to get the dog to realise that it is too hot for a walk at 
the moment!



> On May 27, 2018, at 13:10, Sharon Ghamari-Tabrizi  
> wrote:
> 
> Dear Friends
> if any of you are computer programmers, 1984 and 1985 was a long time ago,
> but do you remember if you had any bright ideas about the resemblance
> between lace making or lace-patterns and coding? And if so, in what
> software language?
> 
> Thanks
> Sharon

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[lace] Difficult laces

[H M Clarke]

To ask what is the most difficult lace is like asking what is the most 
difficult school subject. It is subjective (sorry!) and dependent on many 
factors, only some of which are related to the innate abilities of the 
individual. 

It is important to remember that lacemakers didn’t dart about the world’s 
offerings or even tackle multiple patterns. They learnt young and made their 
lace as they were taught. Nobody told them their type of lace was easy or 
difficult just how to make it. This was true for Honiton, Beds, Bucks Point and 
presumably all the European types as well. If they developed a true talent then 
they may have worked on more complex patterns. Their focus though was to be 
able to sell their products to help their families. 

This is a long-winded way of saying that, IMHO, there is no definitive answer 
to the question of which is the most difficult type of lace. In the same way 
there is no one favourite type. 

My C$0.02 worth. 

Helen on the west coast of mainland Canada. 

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Re: [lace] Lace Revival of the 1970s

[H M Clarke]

Speaking from my family’s perspective, my grandmother learnt as a child in the 
1910s. This was at some local girls’ club in Suffolk. Then she married and had 
a family (obviously!) and lace was put away. When she was sadly widowed in the 
early 1960s she went back to making lace. She showed my sisters the rudiments 
of making lace in the 1970s (I was considered too young - or too difficult?) 
which she had never done with her daughters. 

I’m wondering whether others of her generation were similarly finding time in 
retirement to return to lace in the 1960s and 70s thereby kickstarting another 
revival?

Helen who originally lived in lacemaking areas in England before learning to 
make it in Canada!

> On Mar 26, 2018, at 07:59, DevonThein  wrote:
> 
> I am attempting to write a catalog for the Lace, not Lace: Contemporary Fiber
> Art from Lacemaking Techniques.
> The exhibit will include the work of Ros Hills, Lieve Jerger, and Jill
> Nordfors Clark who I consider to have begun their activity during the lace
> revival of the 1970s. If I were to try to establish a context for what was
> happening in lace at that time, what are the most important things that I
> would touch on?
> 

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[lace] Lace samples

[H M Clarke]

I'm wondering what you all do with your lace samples? I'm thinking of segments 
of a piece that you decided not to complete; short lengths of continuous laces 
where you may have been testing threads, colours or whatever; working out 
certain techniques before progressing to the final piece; and similar. 

I cannot believe that I'm the only one with these pieces. In general, I've been 
sewing them onto a cushion cover - I'm on my second one now. 

What do you do? Please share your methods with the list to inspire the rest of 
us :-)

Regards, Helen (on the sunny west coast of mainland Canada where it is 
beginning to feel slightly autumnal and I'm delighted!)

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[lace] Higgins Art Gallery & Museum, Bedford

[H M Clarke]

Hi,

I was excited to see that the old Cecil Higgins gallery in Bedford had 
reopened. I took a look at their website but saw no mention of lace. I 
contacted them to ask where all their lace is now but I got no reply. 

Does anyone on the list know the situation? Do they still have a lace section 
or has the lace been moved elsewhere or put into storage? 

Thank you in advance, Helen 

(A smidge south of Vancouver on the west coast of mainland Canada where it is a 
beautiful spring evening)

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[lace] Lacemaker's dog?

[H M Clarke]

I am still trying to work out what specific needs a lacemaker had that would 
end up with a dog breed especially for them. Were the key lacemaking areas 
popular with bulldog breeders who could provide the runts of the litters? I 
also can't imagine someone working hard on their lace would want to be letting 
a dog out or taking it for a walk. Then there would be the challenges with 
females of the breed. Also, even if there were a specific need, would 
lacemakers provide a big enough market?

It would seem as likely that the runts would end up as ship dogs and have made 
their way to France in that way. There were far more ships and boats crossing 
the channel than lacemakers. The dogs could have been exchanged, as some exotic 
and rare breed, for cognac or perfume.

I am sure that this breed can be ideal as a companion and I am delighted that 
some of you have discovered that for yourselves. I would suggest that there are 
plenty of other breeds (or mongrels) that would be equally appropriate. 
Breeding a dog that is a great companion is a lot better than the cosmetic 
desires some breeders have today and which are threatening the future of many 
dogs. 

Just my tuppence worth ...

Regards, Helen. 

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[lace] Dog patterns

[H M Clarke]

Thank you all for your wonderful replies to my question about dog patterns. A 
good friend, who is also owner and training director of my dog's daycare and 
school, is going through an increasingly difficult time. I thought it would be 
good to make her a small something. 

Given my own health challenges I am not sure what I would be able to achieve 
hence my including blackwork in my question. I suspect that I would use your 
suggestions as input and then make it up as I go along which has always been my 
preferred method. For any of you remember my infamous survey last year, I have 
zero visualisation ability so I do need a starting point. I will keep looking. 

Regards, Helen 

(Suffering from a cold while sitting on the beach on the west coast of mainland 
Canada)

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[lace] Dog pattern(s)

[H M Clarke]

Hi,

I am looking for dog patterns in both lace and blackwork. If you know of any 
then could you please let me know how to find it/them. 

Many thanks in advance,

Helen (on the dark and windy west coast of mainland Canada)

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Re: [lace] ADMIN: Survey Request - please send privately

[H M Clarke]

Wow, and people wonder why the list is so quiet these days. Sadly the animosity 
remains. I have been on this list for a very long time and have seen many ups 
and downs. Each down causes long term impact to the list members. 

I'm bringing the, totally voluntary, survey to an early end. I will send any 
analysis privately to those people who kindly - either privately or to the list 
- replied. I will not be troubling the list any further. 

Now, what nefarious deeds can I possibly use the information I have gleaned 
for? Hmm, I'm curious about that now ...

Helen


> On Jul 31, 2016, at 16:49, Anna Binnie  wrote:
> 
> Dear Everyone
> Thank you Avital for bringing the issue of the survey onto the list. I 
> personally am annoyed with all the individual responses.
> 
> I did not respond to the survey because I was not told why it was being 
> carried out, 'curiosity' is not sufficient. The survey is not annonymous 
> since you are responding with your email addresses. What happens to the 
> results was not clearly articulated either. Before you all claim but it is 
> amongst us and it could be fun. Think about the dark side.
> 
> Who are we We all claim to be lacemakers or have an interest in 
> lacemaking, but could there be someone who wants to hack into our accounts or 
> find out about us for their own purposes.
> 
> Loyalty cards collect all sorts of information for their customers and while 
> we may get a 'bonus' something, they get a profile of our shopping and some 
> times sell this information onto other parties.
> 
> Please be aware of your own privacy and your own security and be careful 
> about what information you give out about yourself and to whom.
> 
> Anna from a cloudy but warm Sydney

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[lace] Survey Request

[H M Clarke]

I would like you please to send me your answer to the questions below. I will 
collate them all and send a summary to the list. 

1) Can you 'see' a picture in your head?

A) Yes, but only if I have just seen it in reality 
B) Yes, but only if I have ever seen it
C) Yes, even if I have to imagine what it would look like 
D) No, when I shut my eyes I just see darkness 

2) What is/was your involvement with lace in YOUR opinion 

A) I make/made lace from existing designs
B) I make/made lace that includes my own designs
C) I am/was a lace designer who also makes lace
D) I am interested in lace and/or lacemaking but I don't make any

You can just tell me something like "I'm 1C and 2B" or you can tell me more 
detail, the choice is yours. Please do answer though!

There are no wrong answers and none are 'better' than the others so please be 
honest. I will keep your individual answers confidential and only provide the 
list with a statistical summary. 

This is a topic that has intrigued me since my childhood. I have wondered what 
the ratio would be for artists and craftsmen of various types and how it 
impacts their ability and willingness to try various crafts. I have seen how 
various members of my family developed likes and dislikes based on their 
answer. I would now like to understand this wonderful group who have all been 
drawn to lacemaking in some way. 

If anyone has any questions then do please ask. 

Let's say that you have until 10th August to send me your answers. Oh, and I 
will give you my personal answers with the results ;-)

Many thanks in advance, Helen (on the summery west coast of mainland Canada)

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[lace] Lutac (oops!) and Trillium

[H M Clarke]

Firstly, a huge thank you to the very kind people (and Adele ;-) ) who answered 
my question about Lutac lace. It would seem that this is a modern lace that has 
some devoted followers but has never made it to the main stream. Who knows, 
though, what the future holds - perhaps one of the devotees will take it to the 
next level and teach others?

For my second question, I am wondering if any of my fellow Canadians know what 
the situation is with Trillium Lace? I went to place an order and I got a 
warning that the site has possibly been hacked. My emails have gone unanswered. 
I really hope that this last remaining Canadian source hasn't disappeared. 
Anyone able to shed some light on the situation? In the meantime, I'm keeping 
my fingers crossed that she is just on vacation ...

Thanks in advance,

Helen (in dark but still warm British Columbia on the west coast of mainland 
Canada, just down the road a bit from Adele)

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[lace] Lutec (?) lace

[H M Clarke]

Hi there, oh knowledgeable ones. 

I had the privilege to go to Anchorage for a lace class way back in, I think, 
1998. I did Bruges but I seem to remember that a few people were learning lutec 
(?) lace. I think it was a bobbin lace that made use of padding techniques from 
some needle laces. I have a mental picture (if I could do those, a topic for a 
future post) of them laying loads of short pieces of thread where they wanted 
it thicker. Have I totally confused you all yet? Anyway, I don't remember ever 
hearing of this lace since then. Did I completely make up this memory or is 
there such a lace? If the latter then was it just a short term 'fad' or does it 
have any history?

Regards, Helen 

(On the west coast of mainland Canada where we are finally getting some more 
rain)

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Re: [lace] Bone bobbins

[H M Clarke]

Thank you, Brenda, and the other kind people who helped to answer my question. 
I hadn't thought about the bulbous nature of the continentals. It is 
interesting to read though that there were some bone continentals. 

I wonder whether it was the fact that bone was used for English bobbins that 
encouraged all the decorations? The midlands bobbins in particular are so much 
more elaborate while continentals are much more uniform and utilitarian. 

As for my collection? There are many, including family, who would like to get 
them but for now they remain with me. One day, I might be able to deal with my 
pain to the extent that hobbies are possible again - no harm in dreaming, 
right?!

Regards, Helen in damp British Columbia on the west coast of Canada

On 2015-09-22, at 2:51, Brenda Paternoster  wrote:

There were few, if any bone continental bobbins.  I guess that’s mostly because 
even the heavier breeds of cattle around two or three centuries ago didn’t have 
bones thick enough to form into the bulbous shape that most continental bobbins 
have.

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[lace] Gallipoli and a smidge of lace

[H M Clarke]

My main reason, on the 100th anniversary of Gallipoli, is to thank the 
Australians - one of your forebears saved my grandfather's life there. How? By 
giving him a drink of water. 

I don't know the details, sadly he was killed in a car crash weeks before I was 
born. I do know that he had had to cope with one cup of water a day before 
then. That was for him to drink, wash and shave and also everything for his 
horse. I also know that, from then on, he couldn't bear to hear a tap dripping 
or see water wasted. 

If it hadn't been for that wonderfully generous Australian, my family wouldn't 
be here. Thank you. 

For the lace content, I acquired a handmade christening gown recently. It has 
many inserts of Flanders type lace. The gown has obviously seen some wear but I 
don't think it is especially old. The lace looks handmade to me. My question is 
- is there machine made lace that looks like Flanders?

Regards, Helen. 

(West coast of Canada)

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