Re: Re First Flight Questions
--- Lancair Builders' Mail List --- Brent, A check ride for purposes of receiving a new or additional reating or certificate is not instruction. A Biennial Flight Review IAW FAR 61.56 is considered to be flight instruction. Flight training is defined in FAR 61.1 is training received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft. A CFI may sit in the right (or left) seat and not exercise the priveleges of his/ her certificate. In that case no there would be no logbook entry in either persons' logbook reflecting instruction. If there was an entry in a logbook, then some instruction was going on. If there is an accident, then the FAA and NTSB generally regards the person with the most ratings as the PIC. BTW, FAR 91 does not require a PIC for flights conducted under Part 91. If more than one pilot is in the cockpit it is advisable to agree before the flight who is going to be the PIC. If the agreement is in writing then it is more difficult after an accident to have one person or the other deny responsibility as PIC. If flight instruction is being conducted, the FAA regards the CFI as PIC unless there is an agreement before the flight that the student is the PIC. Jeff Edwards CFI, DPE LML website: http://www.olsusa.com/Users/Mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please send your photos and drawings to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re First Flight Questions
--- Lancair Builders' Mail List --- "dave morss (by way of Marvin Kaye )" wrote: You hit the nail on the head. The reason I won't instruct in an aircraft after I do a test flight and before the test period is over is if anything happens its me that gets the sanction. "Thou shall not instruct during phase I", is a pretty clear cut commandment. However, at the risk of sounding former-president-like, how do you define "instruct?" The FARs are pretty clear that the pilot flying must keep most of his attention outside the airplane and not buried in the instruments. In any flight, if the pilot needs to do any in-flight debugging of a system, its is not only prudent, but could even be considered required, that the pilot bring along a second person so that one pilot can fly while the other person does the debugging. At the very least it would be helpful and from the practical stand point it would be required that the second person be a pilot and one who is reasonably familiar with the airplane in question. The way many people are interpreting FAA regs, the FAA is telling us that we should go with a buddy who is not a pilot or who happens to have 1000 hours in his Cesna 172 and none in a Lancair but happens to have the qualification of NOT being a CFI? Is that the only way that one can bring along a required second crew member without running afoul of the FAA's "no instructing" requirements? Now that we are past the initial debugging with the help of our C172 buddy and all systems appear to be working properly, there is still a high likelihood of something failing during the first few hours of the flight, hence the need for the Phase I flight restrictions. A properly rated and qualified, yet inexperienced, pilot would be operating the plane pretty close to his abilities and can get easily overwhelmed by a problem. Would it not be a good idea to bring along an experienced pilot to bail out the inexperienced pilot in case something does go wrong? Even a pilot not qualified in the plane can be helpful in looking for a place to land after an engine problem, handle the radios and navigation while the pilot concentrates on flying, keeping the wings level while the pilot figures out how to bring the gear down Logic tells me that the more experienced this safety pilot, the safer things would be. The reality of life is that these experienced pilots come with a CFI rating. Once again, is the FAA telling us to pass on the CFI and look for a pilot who happens to have the qualification of NOT being a CFI? Will that really enhance the safety of the flight? Hamid LML website: http://www.olsusa.com/Users/Mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please send your photos and drawings to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re First Flight Questions
--- Lancair Builders' Mail List --- Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. First of all, I didn't mean to imply that I was considering doing the first flight myself. I will definitely use a test pilot. Also, I can accept the 40 hours. That's only 15 more, and they should go by fairly fast (my girl friend doesn't think so, however). The real problem is the issue of getting transition training to fly the plane. I have about 300 hours and my complex endorsement, so I am legal to fly the plane. However, I have read enough on this list and elsewhere to know that I cannot fly the plane safely without some transition training. Unfortunately, 62L is gone, and no one wants to give instruction in their own planes (and I don't blame them). That puts me in the unfortunate position of having to choose between being safe by getting transition training in my plane while violating the FARs, or being foolishly unsafe by following the FARs and flying my plane alone (after the test pilot flies it first) without proper training. Bummer. Mike Reinath 360 MKII Std. Build at about 96% N3602M LML website: http://www.olsusa.com/Users/Mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please send your photos and drawings to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re First Flight Questions
--- Lancair Builders' Mail List --- Mile: Regardless of what the FAA says, you are obligated to do what you feel is safest. I would definitely recommend that the builder NOT perform the first flight. All the effort that went into the building of the plane will seriously torque your brain chemistry. Years ago I was talking to a biker in a bar who's left side was bandaged from his ankle to his elbow. He described in loving detail every facet of his prized motorcycle and how he skidded on some gravel on a turn. The bike went down and he held on until it stopped, cushioning the chrome and steel with his own flesh. When I asked why he just didn't get off and roll he looked at me incredulously and said "My body will heal". If you have a problem on your first flight, your decision process will be clouded by the horror that your baby may be damaged. Hire an experienced pilot for the first flight. Mike DeHate, Charlie Kohler, Tony Durizzi, Don Goetz and Dave Morse are good choices and good guys to know. After first flight, get enough dual in your airplane to feel comfortable. Don't worry about 40 verses 25 hours. Take the 40, it is the only time you will have a really good excuse to just go and fly the airplane without having to justify a trip ;) "Sorry honey, I'd love to take you and your mother shopping for floor tile but I have to go fly the airplane." Regards Brent Regan LML website: http://www.olsusa.com/Users/Mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please send your photos and drawings to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re First Flight Questions
--- Lancair Builders' Mail List --- Mike, I not only reccomend flight instruction for your first flight, but also a professional test pilot for the first flight. The FARS state that the first 40 hours must be accomplished with only required flight crew. An instructor is required flight crew. Besides the folks reccommended I suggest Major Doug Dodson of the Edwards AF Test Pilot School. Work number 661-277-5607. He flew up to San Francisco with Gale, his wife and we had a marvelous weekend of instruction and sociable comapany. Doug is one of the best instructors I have had since Marge at Ameilia Aviation at Ried Hillview. Something to be said for the methodical nature of the Air Force training regieme. BTW I am in SF I would like to visit your project some time Please Email so we could get together. Gerard Cerchio LNC2 N333EX [EMAIL PROTECTED] LML website: http://www.olsusa.com/Users/Mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please send your photos and drawings to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: First Flight Questions
--- Lancair Builders' Mail List --- here it is in writing from AC no 20-27D c. The carrying of passengers will not be permitted while the aircraft is restricted to the flight test area. It is suggested that a tape recorder, for example, be used by the pilot for recording readings, etc. Flight instruction will not be allowed in the aircraft while in the flight test area. dave dar 320 owner legacy soon LML website: http://www.olsusa.com/Users/Mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please send your photos and drawings to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: First Flight Questions
--- Lancair Builders' Mail List --- Mike, While I'm not 100% sure of the FAR's either, I can tell you that people I know have flown with factory pilots to get instruction in their planes before they've flown off the test hours. In fact, I witnessed one guy actually flying with a factory pilot on the first flight of his IV-P. He then flew with passengers and out of the local area repeatedly before he'd flown off his hours and the FAA was none the wiser. In the immortal words of Chuck Yeager, "I don't recommend it, but it can be done." Guess it all depends on how lucky you feel and if you're willing to bet your ticket just because you're impatient. It seems that different inspectors have different interpretations of the rules from what I've heard. I personally plan to get a familiarization flight right after a Lancair pilot does the first flight in my ES when the time comes. It seems the prudent thing to do. I don't plan on discussing the matter with the DAR unless he brings it up. My feeling is it's better to seek forgiveness than ask permission. Skip Slater LML website: http://www.olsusa.com/Users/Mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please send your photos and drawings to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
