Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
Ciprian Mustiata schreef: Hi team, Based on that issues, and some more, me and that designer will not look back to Delphi legacy, excluding the LCL and we will try to manage to make a fork of Lazarus. The role of that fork is very easy: it will must provide bet UI for user, and will not take care about users that say: in Delphi is different, because Lazarus is not Delphi, is much better. That fork will be maintained to an external server, like OpenSVN one and hopefully when will get enough substange to get it's own merit as an upgrade to Lazarus, hopefully will be merged back to Lazarus code. The project will be named LightZarus and will have the notice that is based on Lazarus code. How is this project going? Is the external svn server already available (I am looking forward to merge these inovations in the main tree, new the compiler options dialog doesn't look finished enough for a release, for example). Vincent _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
On Nov 18, 2007 6:16 PM, James Chandler Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the Lazarus IDE as it is. Delphi 2005 and 2006 default IDE is less pleasant to use. IMO a copycat Laz IDE revamp along the lines of recent Delphi versions would not be an improvement. But IMHO it wouldn't be a decline either. When I first moved away from Delphi as my primary programming language I certainly missed the MDI interface, but after using (mainly) JDev then Eclipse for 4+ years I sure find the MDI interface rather messy... I've been wishing for a SDI one, but I'm not convinced it's better, probably one can adapt to either when obliguated to do so for some years ;-) Cheers, Flávio _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
On Nov 18, 2007 12:36 AM, Ciprian Mustiata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That solution is the today solution for two visions of the same problem: what means Lazarus to became easy and more accepted. For a short term, for sure Lazarus can be as Delphi 7 like as it wants. There seams to be some confusion here. Lazarus IDE is not a clone of Delphi 7. The current format is what was considered the most productive. Of course it's possible to make changes to it, provided it's agreed they improve the IDE, and there is *no Delphi compatibility pretended on the IDE side*. The LCL library, on the other hand, provides a degree of Delphi compatibility, but that's something separate, and even there isn't a goal of being 100% compatible. We don't provide obsolete properties, for example. We provide extra properties and methods where adequate, etc. Having said that, The Lazarus approach of using native UI sets is a imensely complex one, and is only viable by having a large number of contributors which find and fix bugs. I would say that a fork won't have those resources, at least on the start, and is faded to be defeated by the complexity of the project it is forking, unless someone has a lot of resources to invest on it. Consider that all examples you posted of forks were backed by enterprises or large foundations. I think such goal of thinking independent can be more easely achieved by an independent project, like msegui and fpgui. In case you haven't seen: http://homepage.bluewin.ch/msegui/ http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ Such project has full freedom to do it's own design and can therefore choose a simpler to implement design which makes itself viable. C# style autocompletion option for always be nice since I'm a lazy coder ;) I don't know that a C# style autocompletion is, but Lazarus IDE presents autocompletion in a number o ways. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
On 18/11/2007, Ciprian Mustiata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the long term benefits: - will hopefully became the newbie version of Lazarus - will offer a mini-framework on top of LCL, so it will remove a lot of hand-made designed code - it will not have to be a 100% compliant rule UI as much as wants to be more proffesionist, so it will get best benefits as is more redesigned (for sure not all solutions will be optimum, but will be good enough to take for granted) My 2c worth Our company switched completely from Delphi 7 to FPC/Lazarus three years ago. We have no regrets to this day! One thing I have learned over these three years is that I now distinguish between the Lazarus IDE and the LCL. I start talking about them as separate subjects because they (in my mind) have different goals. In summary * I love the Lazarus IDE. It has plenty of neat features over Delphi 7. It doesn't try to be 100% compatible and can invent new ideas or solutions to problems. * I hate wizards. They are overrated and tend to treat the developer as an idiot! If you want wizards, implement them as separate packages. * I don't like the LCL. To complex design and difficult to maintain the widget layers. You fix one thing and break another. This happens over and over again. Also this is where it differs from the IDE's goals and why I talk about them as separate subjects. LCL has a goal which will only work 'in theory'. LCL is trying to catch a ever moving target and tries to be to much compatible with VCL. It has done a great job so far, but all still a pipe dream as far as I'm concerned. Copycat products (feature-to-feature) will always come in a distant second place to the original product. Also you limit your scope for being creative with new solutions to old problems. This is why I created fpGUI. I'm not trying to be VCL compatible, but also not as radically different as MSEgui. A nice middle ground and it gives me the scope to be creative (if I want) with some design choices. I use Lazarus as my IDE of choice and fpGUI as my widget toolkit. This works beautifully. I also don't mind implementing new features or bug fixes to the IDE. Extending the IDE is great and relatively easy to accomplish. I have no objections in supporting the IDE and have done so over the last three years and will continue to do so in the future. Lazarus (as in the IDE) has given me a lot and I will return the favour. Ciprian, ever thought of looking at fpGUI for that fork? ;-) Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
Ciprian Mustiata schrieb: The top of reason of forking is: Lazarus itself as IDE, has *not* that goals, and wanting to achieve that plans in Lazarus development today has no sense, so instead arguing and fight for every new extra change, is easier to redesign places where is considered more to be in that way, Then starting coding instead of lengthy mails :) _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
Florian Klaempfl schreef: Ciprian Mustiata schrieb: The top of reason of forking is: Lazarus itself as IDE, has *not* that goals, and wanting to achieve that plans in Lazarus development today has no sense, so instead arguing and fight for every new extra change, is easier to redesign places where is considered more to be in that way, Then starting coding instead of lengthy mails :) Is there already a public svn? Vincent _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
On 18/11/2007, Vincent Snijders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then starting coding instead of lengthy mails :) Is there already a public svn? Just to show how tough it is to create a copycat ide, even with company funding Have a look and SpeedSoft's Sybil IDE. Has anybody ever looked at Sybil? The source code is now available (I downloaded it some time ago) and I believe somebody actually made it work under Windows as well, not just OS/2 as SpeedSoft intended. I can't remember the website address, but I'm sure I can find it again with a bit of Google searching. I'll attach a screenshot in my next posting (just in case it's to big for this post) Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
On 18/11/2007, Graeme Geldenhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: with a bit of Google searching. I'll attach a screenshot in my next posting (just in case it's to big for this post) As promised. See attachment. Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ attachment: Screen.png
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
On 18/11/2007, Graeme Geldenhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 18/11/2007, Graeme Geldenhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: with a bit of Google searching. I'll attach a screenshot in my next posting (just in case it's to big for this post) As promised. See attachment. Man looking at all these screenshots sure brings back good memories of OS/2. Now that's a OS I loved. Pitty IBM f**ked it up with their crap marketing and politics. Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ attachment: Options.gifattachment: ProjectSettings.gif
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
Hi Lazarus team, The reasoning of that fork is easy to accomplish as vision as was the Beryl one. Compiz wants more stability, Beryl wants more eye-candy. Compiz wants firstly to get a strong base, beryl wants to get full-featured product over the to-date compiz version. That solution is the today solution for two visions of the same problem: what means Lazarus to became easy and more accepted. For a short term, for sure Lazarus can be as Delphi 7 like as it wants. Delphi is great tool, was and is really a great tool. So taking his UI as template is great. It does it's job, many Lazarus users are Delphi users. So no one will want to try something different and purposely better. I want to put in the history of some software products that were changed a lot and taking no copy-like solutions and prevails: -GNOME 2 instead GNOME 1 (which focus to simplify the UI as it's minimal features that the user wants) and became a great success - Mono, by adding near the default .NET implementation it's OWN stack which is not compatible with .NET but is more compatible with GNOME - Eclipse RCP (Rich Client Platform) which increase greatly over the +.1 versions mostly in look - Firefox and Thunderbird against Mozilla Browser Suite What are the best copy-like projects that succeed but they does not replace the commercial product: - Wine: is a minimalist Windows like system, but for critical systems, all use Windows - Mono: when is for performance, the Windows' .NET stack is used - DosBox: great, but most users preffer a VM with DOS instead that solution on top of FreeDOS They both fight for the same world and give the same solution as the commercial component: they offer a similar lookfeel with the originator software. Is good when you want to use that soft on other platform, and 70% compatibility is acceptable. The replacements with a compatible core (Firefox for instance on top of Gecko) but an easier UI that don't stop only on copy-ing let's say Opera browser (by adding tabls) and all browsers in the market (to have all options for the user), and purposing for the users that wants a way back extensions to make it somehow at the same level, but still lighter than Mozilla, makes it succeed. What is the Lazarus approach today? I am not here to judge but Lazarus may succeed as a copy-like product, but will be always weaker than Delphi 2007 or 2008 when it will appear. At least on Win32 platform. When anyone will say a platform critical product, will use Delphi. What is the hope of revamping lazarus: to make a free-mind introspections about Lazarus UI, but not in the idea that makes it more Delphi like, excluding the case when the Delphi's solution is really the best in the market, elsewhere, there is no need to waste time in that direction. By that the focuses are: - use when is possible a wizard that makes all your steps: filenewother..., project-new, - all preferences in Lazarus should be in the same way viewed, probably similar with Object Inspector, may be boring for some, but a new user will know: I must go to the page X, look for property Y, and put value Z - implement globally search (to filter the options, wizards to start, source-code, properties to setup) - reduce the UI-wise items to minimum, with all drawback - implement hint tools and other hidden options (Create Class wizard will be an unit with a class name inside it) to be live active, possible as a live-toolbar - revamp graphics and colors, make a theme of Lazarus, similar with Clearlooks on GNOME, but will apply only on top of Lazarus IDE, so anyone will see Lazarus will identify as it - remove completly and try to make them as separate modules some Lazarus options: Build Lazarus should be a wizard, but will be put as an external tool, and you have to activate it, Import Delphi form, etc. will be an option in Open dialog, or an extra option on File-New-Other dialog, to import things in it - remove annoying user-like errors (for the moment is considered to create a notification area window instead showMessage dialog) - create a startup wizard, for the new user, with one of the first links: one to a freepascal tutorial (in Lazarus' wiki!?) and a Lazarus tutorial What will not make that fork: - change LCL in the idea of making more friendly for that new UI, all bug reports will be submited back to Lazarus project - hide bugs found in Lazarus as much it expects to share as much code as possible for short to medium term of time(Lightzarus project, with the splash writing FreePascal Lazarus Light) What are the long term benefits: - will hopefully became the newbie version of Lazarus - will offer a mini-framework on top of LCL, so it will remove a lot of hand-made designed code - it will not have to be a 100% compliant rule UI as much as wants to be more proffesionist, so it will get best benefits as is more redesigned (for sure not all solutions will be optimum, but will be good enough to take for
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
Ciprian Mustiata wrote: The issue I want to put on top is Lazarus resemble with 10 years old UIs, FreePascal the same, and they don't want to add value for the product is today most needed. I've not means about Lazarus bugs, all software has bugs. So, the eexpectations for a new user, (I put me in that use-case) is to get for first time a wizard to understand what to do with Lazarus, secondly the UI should be innovative, probably the best in market, to be consistent UI-wise, to give me tools and as much I've don't need to be hidden, by my choose or choosing a profile. That's asking a lot, IMO. These are all volunteers working here and they've done a pretty smashing job, if you ask me. I know lazarus takes a bit to get familiar with, but it really is a very nice IDE, IMO. Sure, its no Delphi2007, but I would guess that if the core developers had 10% of the money for RD that CodeGear has (.5% for M$ ;)), Lazarus would be a lot more moochy as I like to say. Are there things that I'd like to see in Lazarus such as a c# style autocompletion?, sure I would. But I don't have the time to contribute things like that myself so I am perfectly fine enjoying Lazarus as is. To me, Lazarus provides something very important: value. With only slight inconveniences from Delphi, etc, Lazarus provides a pretty damn productive environment for building true cross platform applications and the support community is excellent. To me what is most promising is that among component/framework vendors for Delphi, there seems to be more and more providing support for freepascal/lazarus. To me, that indicates a good solid compatibility with Delphi and a maturity in the Lazarus product itself. Identity of Lazarus will make people to not think in Lazarus as the worse twin of Delphi. Lazarus has to be best in what it does: it must be simple to add a component, or to write a dll, it MUST provide a simple Wizard, even seems a foolish from many view, that will make to be used in schools, it must have less annoying bugs, that should be the BLOCKERS, not one bug in one toolkit. Lazarus have to implement it's own dialogs using not TForm with strict UI rules, they have to implement all dialogs from a TIDEForm, so managing the docking, etc. in future by that inheritance. I agree that it would be nice to see lazarus as an IDE comparable to Delphi/VS.net, but it really does do most of the stuff those IDE's do, IMO. A C# style autocompletion option for always be nice since I'm a lazy coder ;) Based on that issues, and some more, me and that designer will not look back to Delphi legacy, excluding the LCL and we will try to manage to make a fork of Lazarus. The role of that fork is very easy: it will must provide bet UI for user, and will not take care about users that say: in Delphi is different, because Lazarus is not Delphi, is much better. That fork will be maintained to an external server, like OpenSVN one and hopefully when will get enough substange to get it's own merit as an upgrade to Lazarus, hopefully will be merged back to Lazarus code. I don't know. I agree with other responder in that the time would be better spent on lazarus proper. The project can always use more talented contributors and you wouldn't have to fork the code. -- Warm Regards, Lee My wife is better at Guitar Hero than I am and it's really irritating. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
Op donderdag 15-11-2007 om 12:33 uur [tijdzone -0800], schreef Ciprian Mustiata: Based on that issues, and some more, me and that designer will not look back to Delphi legacy, excluding the LCL and we will try to manage to make a fork of Lazarus. The role of that fork is very easy: it will must provide bet UI for user, and will not take care about users that say: in Delphi is different, because Lazarus is not Delphi, is much better. That fork will be maintained to an external server, like OpenSVN one and hopefully when will get enough substange to get it's own merit as an upgrade to Lazarus, hopefully will be merged back to Lazarus code. I don't understand where you need a fork for? If you have patches for the ide, just send them in. If they are usefull they'll get committed? Joost _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
Christian U. wrote: I think it is not time to make UI Forks, Lazarus is on an very good way as it is. And a lot of Delphi code can be used as is so i dont think that the Delphi compatibility is an bad thing. Also the Delphi 7 like GUI layout is an very good decision. For my opinion you are the minority, not Lazarus. This sounds a bit like figthing for Lazarus but its my opinion. if you have good ideas, spend it to the Lazarus project and dont make forks, that never ends good for every project, at example takle a look at beryl and compiz. I agree, the Delphi UI was allways one thing about Delphi that I prefered against the Likes of visual basic and .net, to me the Delphi style, with a few tweaks is just about perfect. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
Based on that issues, and some more, me and that designer will not look back to Delphi legacy, excluding the LCL and we will try to manage to make a fork of Lazarus. The role of that fork is very easy: it will must provide bet UI for user, and will not take care about users that say: in Delphi is different, because Lazarus is not Delphi, is much better. That fork will be maintained to an external server, like OpenSVN one and hopefully when will get enough substange to get it's own merit as an upgrade to Lazarus, hopefully will be merged back to Lazarus code. The project will be named LightZarus and will have the notice that is based on Lazarus code. I think it is not time to make UI Forks, Lazarus is on an very good way as it is. And a lot of Delphi code can be used as is so i dont think that the Delphi compatibility is an bad thing. Also the Delphi 7 like GUI layout is an very good decision. For my opinion you are the minority, not Lazarus. This sounds a bit like figthing for Lazarus but its my opinion. if you have good ideas, spend it to the Lazarus project and dont make forks, that never ends good for every project, at example takle a look at beryl and compiz. best regards Christian _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
On Nov 15, 2007, at 9:33 PM, Ciprian Mustiata wrote: Hi team, I will make the following premises about me (Ciprian Mustiata) and a designer (John Merill): 1. I use Delphi and Lazarus for fun and always like the elegance of FreePascal language and the power of Lazarus project 2. I came from another world, means I work with Opensource but I am from an enterprise world, where one project can stand when is great from a lot of reasoning, including design, marketing, help, updates, support 3. I am not want to make separation, trolling, etc. The issue I want to put on top is Lazarus resemble with 10 years old UIs, FreePascal the same, and they don't want to add value for the product is today most needed. I've not means about Lazarus bugs, all software has bugs. So, the eexpectations for a new user, (I put me in that use-case) is to get for first time a wizard to understand what to do with Lazarus, secondly the UI should be innovative, probably the best in market, to be consistent UI-wise, to give me tools and as much I've don't need to be hidden, by my choose or choosing a profile. For making Lazarus to succeed it has to be UNIQUE and best from all. Means best in the market, at least at his level. Lazarus' focus is on matter of today approach is to add value by adding a lot of features inside the IDE. That is great, still it has issues: - the UI is not consistent - there is duplicating work in form code - the metaphora of it is like Delphi 4 - 7 (!?) resemble, means one top bar with project management and components, floating windows for components, ui, errors, etc. Personally, I love this IDE because it is simple to use. You directly have what you need. And above all, one-window application are really boring, even more under OS X. I really don't like the lastest version of Delphi for these reasons. What is wrong on long-term relation of Lazarus with Delphi: - every people from Delphi's world think: I'll write everything in Delphi and I'll rewrite in Lazarus to be supported on Linux (OS X, etc.) Really ? - making Lazarus a worse image of Delphi, even it can have extra- features - Lazarus is tied of innovation by forced to not use another UI metaphora, for one simple user, Delphi devels using Lazarus, will use even less, cause the UI is not the same. Identity of Lazarus will make people to not think in Lazarus as the worse twin of Delphi. Lazarus has to be best in what it does: it must be simple to add a component, or to write a dll, it MUST provide a simple Wizard, even seems a foolish from many view, that will make to be used in schools, it must have less annoying bugs, that should be the BLOCKERS, not one bug in one toolkit. Lazarus have to implement it's own dialogs using not TForm with strict UI rules, they have to implement all dialogs from a TIDEForm, so managing the docking, etc. in future by that inheritance. Lazarus itself has to grow to a better IDE in terms of feedback, it MUST provide hints, and make the UI responsive at least by providing dialogs that say that something is happening. I.E. when an user say: Build Lazarus, it has to appear in front of user one dialog saying: Lazarus is building... and one Cancel button to press, instead making the user to have an unresponsive UI. The IDE is still in development and I think there are other things to do before that. First of all a complete set of components which work fine under any widgetset is more important for any developpers than a beautiful dialog. I agree, it is important. But I prefer in this order for my part :) Based on that issues, and some more, me and that designer will not look back to Delphi legacy, excluding the LCL and we will try to manage to make a fork of Lazarus. The role of that fork is very easy: it will must provide bet UI for user, and will not take care about users that say: in Delphi is different, because Lazarus is not Delphi, is much better. That fork will be maintained to an external server, like OpenSVN one and hopefully when will get enough substange to get it's own merit as an upgrade to Lazarus, hopefully will be merged back to Lazarus code. The project will be named LightZarus and will have the notice that is based on Lazarus code. Wish to you the best, Ciprian Mustiata and John Merill Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -- Damien Gerard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lazarus] Lazarus IDE revamp
Hi team, I will make the following premises about me (Ciprian Mustiata) and a designer (John Merill): 1. I use Delphi and Lazarus for fun and always like the elegance of FreePascal language and the power of Lazarus project 2. I came from another world, means I work with Opensource but I am from an enterprise world, where one project can stand when is great from a lot of reasoning, including design, marketing, help, updates, support 3. I am not want to make separation, trolling, etc. The issue I want to put on top is Lazarus resemble with 10 years old UIs, FreePascal the same, and they don't want to add value for the product is today most needed. I've not means about Lazarus bugs, all software has bugs. So, the eexpectations for a new user, (I put me in that use-case) is to get for first time a wizard to understand what to do with Lazarus, secondly the UI should be innovative, probably the best in market, to be consistent UI-wise, to give me tools and as much I've don't need to be hidden, by my choose or choosing a profile. For making Lazarus to succeed it has to be UNIQUE and best from all. Means best in the market, at least at his level. Lazarus' focus is on matter of today approach is to add value by adding a lot of features inside the IDE. That is great, still it has issues: - the UI is not consistent - there is duplicating work in form code - the metaphora of it is like Delphi 4 - 7 (!?) resemble, means one top bar with project management and components, floating windows for components, ui, errors, etc. What is wrong on long-term relation of Lazarus with Delphi: - every people from Delphi's world think: I'll write everything in Delphi and I'll rewrite in Lazarus to be supported on Linux (OS X, etc.) - making Lazarus a worse image of Delphi, even it can have extra-features - Lazarus is tied of innovation by forced to not use another UI metaphora, for one simple user, Delphi devels using Lazarus, will use even less, cause the UI is not the same. Identity of Lazarus will make people to not think in Lazarus as the worse twin of Delphi. Lazarus has to be best in what it does: it must be simple to add a component, or to write a dll, it MUST provide a simple Wizard, even seems a foolish from many view, that will make to be used in schools, it must have less annoying bugs, that should be the BLOCKERS, not one bug in one toolkit. Lazarus have to implement it's own dialogs using not TForm with strict UI rules, they have to implement all dialogs from a TIDEForm, so managing the docking, etc. in future by that inheritance. Lazarus itself has to grow to a better IDE in terms of feedback, it MUST provide hints, and make the UI responsive at least by providing dialogs that say that something is happening. I.E. when an user say: Build Lazarus, it has to appear in front of user one dialog saying: Lazarus is building... and one Cancel button to press, instead making the user to have an unresponsive UI. Based on that issues, and some more, me and that designer will not look back to Delphi legacy, excluding the LCL and we will try to manage to make a fork of Lazarus. The role of that fork is very easy: it will must provide bet UI for user, and will not take care about users that say: in Delphi is different, because Lazarus is not Delphi, is much better. That fork will be maintained to an external server, like OpenSVN one and hopefully when will get enough substange to get it's own merit as an upgrade to Lazarus, hopefully will be merged back to Lazarus code. The project will be named LightZarus and will have the notice that is based on Lazarus code. Wish to you the best, Ciprian Mustiata and John Merill - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
