Re: predicting leap seconds

2006-01-08 Thread Rob Seaman

On Jan 7, 2006, at 11:01 PM, M. Warner Losh wrote:


This would phase in the predictive timeline for leap second
insertions, and would also give the IERS control to end the
experiment if the time horizons exceeded their ability to predict
with confidence.


it would also be completely within the current UTC specification and
practices.  The various bulletins are required to be released with a
minimum look-ahead schedule.  No particular reason they might not
issue a bulletin every six months including both scheduled leap
seconds and unscheduled predictions in a sliding window extending
forward a decade or more.


predicting leap seconds (was Re: [LEAPSECS] Where the responsibility lies)

2006-01-07 Thread Neal McBurnett
On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 07:36:17AM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Neal McBurnett writes:
 On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 08:32:08PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
  If we can increase the tolerance to 10sec, IERS can give us the
  leapseconds with 20 years notice and only the minority of computers
  that survive longer than that would need to update the factory
  installed table of leapseconds.
 
 Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

 It is an educated guess.

 The IERS have already indicated that they belive they could do prediction
 under the 0.9 second tolerance with two or three year horizon.

The Torino Colloquium had some discussion of this.

 Proceedings of the Colloquium on the UTC Timescale held by
 ITU-R SRG 7A
 http://www.ien.it/luc/cesio/itu/ITU.shtml

 Prediction of Universal Time and LOD Variation
 D. Gambis and C. Bizouard, (IERS)
 http://www.ien.it/luc/cesio/itu/gambis.pdf

After a bunch of nice graphs (not all of which were easy to interpret)
I found the periodogram (essentially a discrete Fourier transform of
the input data) interesting.  The way I read it (expert advice
welcomed), the broad peaks at 26 years (0.6 ms/d) and 52 years (0.3
ms/d) suggest that the most common pattern is a gradual cycle a few
decades long of lengthening and shortening of the day, presumably
driven by movements in the earth's mantle and core.

Page 14 of the pdf has a table:

 Skill of the UT1 prediction statistics over 1963-2003

Horizon   Prediction accuracy in ms
3 years   308
2 years   163
1 year 68
180 days   36
90 days21
30 days 7
10 days 3

Perhaps these are worst cases?  It would be nice to have confidence
intervals.

They presented these conclusions:

 Possibility to predict UT1 with a 1s accuracy at least over 4 years
 using a simple method : seasonal, bias and drift.

 New prediction methods are under investigation (Singular Spectrum
 Analysis, neural network,..)

 Possibility to use Core Angular Momentum prediction for decadal
 modeling

Steve Allen wrote:
 http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/leapsecs/McCarthy.html

 This deserves discussion and analysis and explanation.

I wrote Dennis McCarthy about that, and he said he'd look up the
details and get back to me next week.  But he did remind me of this,
which I remember seeing in data they published via ftp years ago:

 Regarding the accuracy of these long-term predictions, the IERS
 Rapid Service and Prediction Center located at the U. S. Naval
 Observatory does make predictions of Delta-T in the IERS Annual
 Report.  The algorithm for those predictions was determined
 empirically by testing a wide range of possibilities.  It is
 essentially an auto-regressive model using the past ten years of
 data.  The accuracy based on comparison of observations with what
 would have been predicted using that model is shown in the table
 below.  Note that the accuracy estimates are 1-sigma estimates and
 that excursions of 2-sigma (or more) may not be unexpected.

 +-+
 |Year in the Future|Accuracy (1s) (seconds|
 |--+--|
 |1 | .04  |
 |--+--|
 |2 | .08  |
 |--+--|
 |3 |  .3  |
 |--+--|
 |4 |  .8  |
 |--+--|
 |5 |  1.  |
 |--+--|
 |6 |  2.  |
 |--+--|
 |7 |  2.  |
 |--+--|
 |8 |  3.  |
 |--+--|
 |9 |  4.  |
 +-+

The http://www.iers.org/ points eventually to

 http://141.74.1.36/MainDisp.csl?pid=47-25786

but the links from there to the annual reports seem broken right now.

I still haven't seen any good data on predictions for periods of
longer than 9 years.

Neal McBurnett http://bcn.boulder.co.us/~neal/


Re: predicting leap seconds

2006-01-07 Thread M. Warner Losh
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Neal McBurnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: I still haven't seen any good data on predictions for periods of
: longer than 9 years.

Neal,

thanks for the excellent summary of the current state of the art in
prediction.

I think this shows that a 20 year time line is unrealistic at this
point, but 5-10 years would keep things fairly close, and 4 years
should be able to keep the current tolerances.  It might be worth an
experiment where over the next 5 years IERS publish 12 new months of
data every 6 months.  (eg Jan 2006 publish both the June 2006 and Dec
2006 correct, July 2006 publish the June 2007 and Dec 2007 correction,
Jan 2007 publish Jun 2008 and Dec 2008).  We'd hit 4 years in advance
in Jan 2009.  This would phase in the predictive timeline for leap
second insertions, and would also give the IERS control to end the
experiment if the time horizons exceeded their ability to predict with
confidence.  This would be an evolutionary step, rather than a
revolutionary one.  Of course this would make them even more
entrenched than they already are, because to kill them would require
waiting many years...

Warner