RE: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
I have not noticed any problems in Legacy with my use of question marks. Some of us prefer not to use a bunch of blanks or unknowns, so we include the spouse's name like Sally ? (Wife of John Jones). Again, a matter of personal preference. However, a sheme with codes would never work for sharing info, you are right about that. Jerry Sent from my android device. -Original Message- From: Mark Lang markl...@adam.com.au To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Sent: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:35 PM Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames Howard, I usually never convey anything negative; so either it's my head cold or the fact I've just turned 50, I'm afraid I just don't get it. The last part looked like something from an Einstein manuscript. He I understood - crystal clear - your explanation left me scratching my head. As far as placing question marks in the name I consider a no no and do not subscribe to such a practice. If the name is unknown (any part of it) I leave it blank - period - if there's nothing there, you know straight off that you don't have that information. Secondly, Legacy will balk when it catches a name field with a ? in it. This is in the standardisation tips. Kind Regards Mark Lang -Original Message- From: Howard Cady [mailto:howardc...@q.com] Sent: Sunday, 18 March 2012 9:52 AM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames I handle things similarly, but over the years have found a need for unique identifiers for unknown persons and a guesstimate for their year of birth. This is the system I use - for what it is worth. As names become known their bbb identifier can be recycled and so far I have not needed more than the 18278 unknown individuals available using this three letter identification system. CONVENTIONS FOR UNKNOWN NAME ENTRY Unknown First Name: enter ?am for a male, ?af for a female, ?au sex unknown. Unknown Last Name: enter ??abbb where a in both first and last names is a single capital letter code giving the approximate 33 year span (a generation) for the estimated year of birth. The century and codes follow: YearsCodes YearsCodes 1200-1299 A,B,C 1600-1699 M,N,O 1300-1399 D,E,F 1700-1799 P,Q,R 1400-1499 G,H,I 1800-1899 S,T,U 1500-1599 J,K,L 1900-1999 V,W,X 2000-2067 Y,Z bbb is an entry sequence code that starts with a through z, then aa through az, ba to bz etc. An example using a female with unknown first name, born about 1750, who is the 54th person with unknown last name would be entered as ?Qf ??Qbc. Formula for arriving at date code for b.(birth) to use with unknown name is: 1. Use b. if known 2. Use b. of spouse, or spouse of spouse (other wife etc.) 3. Use first m.-25 4. Use bp+33 where bp=b. of parent 5. For bp use bc-33 where bc=b. of child in next generation For bc use bp+33 where bp=b. of parent in previous generation 6. Use d.-65 8. Use dp-32 where dp=d. of parent 9. Use mc-53 where mc=m. of child 10. Use 33 years per generation from any known date. Howard Cady - Original Message - From: Jerry jerrysemailgro...@gmail.com To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames Thanks for those samples, David. What I could not quite figure out is how you are using the FIRST NAME and LAST NAME fields, from your examples, but it gives me the idea of what you are doing. Thanks, -- Jerry On 03/17/2012 02:29 PM, David C Abernathy wrote: Jerry, Here are a few samples. They are from my main database from a different program, But, I do the same thing in all of the programs I run. Yes, the person index has all of these people at the top of the index, as the ( comes before any of the letters. As you can see there can be many different combinations, but they work for me. I use a GEDCOM to go from my main database to Legacy and other programs that I have installed. ? Bowlen (Husband of Isabell Abernathy) ? ? (Wife of Charles Madison) Jeanette ? (Wife of ? Moore Karen ? (Wife of Charles Dunivan) Dagmar ? (Mother of Ludwig Alfred Larsen) Doris ? (Wife of Albert Abernathy) Thanks, David C Abernathy Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http
RE: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
Howard, I usually never convey anything negative; so either it's my head cold or the fact I've just turned 50, I'm afraid I just don't get it. The last part looked like something from an Einstein manuscript. He I understood - crystal clear - your explanation left me scratching my head. As far as placing question marks in the name I consider a no no and do not subscribe to such a practice. If the name is unknown (any part of it) I leave it blank - period - if there's nothing there, you know straight off that you don't have that information. Secondly, Legacy will balk when it catches a name field with a ? in it. This is in the standardisation tips. Kind Regards Mark Lang -Original Message- From: Howard Cady [mailto:howardc...@q.com] Sent: Sunday, 18 March 2012 9:52 AM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames I handle things similarly, but over the years have found a need for unique identifiers for unknown persons and a guesstimate for their year of birth. This is the system I use - for what it is worth. As names become known their bbb identifier can be recycled and so far I have not needed more than the 18278 unknown individuals available using this three letter identification system. CONVENTIONS FOR UNKNOWN NAME ENTRY Unknown First Name: enter ?am for a male, ?af for a female, ?au sex unknown. Unknown Last Name: enter ??abbb where a in both first and last names is a single capital letter code giving the approximate 33 year span (a generation) for the estimated year of birth. The century and codes follow: YearsCodes YearsCodes 1200-1299 A,B,C 1600-1699 M,N,O 1300-1399 D,E,F 1700-1799 P,Q,R 1400-1499 G,H,I 1800-1899 S,T,U 1500-1599 J,K,L 1900-1999 V,W,X 2000-2067 Y,Z bbb is an entry sequence code that starts with a through z, then aa through az, ba to bz etc. An example using a female with unknown first name, born about 1750, who is the 54th person with unknown last name would be entered as ?Qf ??Qbc. Formula for arriving at date code for b.(birth) to use with unknown name is: 1. Use b. if known 2. Use b. of spouse, or spouse of spouse (other wife etc.) 3. Use first m.-25 4. Use bp+33 where bp=b. of parent 5. For bp use bc-33 where bc=b. of child in next generation For bc use bp+33 where bp=b. of parent in previous generation 6. Use d.-65 8. Use dp-32 where dp=d. of parent 9. Use mc-53 where mc=m. of child 10. Use 33 years per generation from any known date. Howard Cady - Original Message - From: Jerry jerrysemailgro...@gmail.com To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames Thanks for those samples, David. What I could not quite figure out is how you are using the FIRST NAME and LAST NAME fields, from your examples, but it gives me the idea of what you are doing. Thanks, -- Jerry On 03/17/2012 02:29 PM, David C Abernathy wrote: Jerry, Here are a few samples. They are from my main database from a different program, But, I do the same thing in all of the programs I run. Yes, the person index has all of these people at the top of the index, as the ( comes before any of the letters. As you can see there can be many different combinations, but they work for me. I use a GEDCOM to go from my main database to Legacy and other programs that I have installed. ? Bowlen (Husband of Isabell Abernathy) ? ? (Wife of Charles Madison) Jeanette ? (Wife of ? Moore Karen ? (Wife of Charles Dunivan) Dagmar ? (Mother of Ludwig Alfred Larsen) Doris ? (Wife of Albert Abernathy) Thanks, David C Abernathy Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4877 - Release Date: 03/17/12 Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical
Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
As far as I know, you should have no problems with the use of the ? with gedcoms. I use Legacy and transfer information similar to my TNG website and the ? comes across just fine. You can search for every instance of ? in your database and you know where you have missing names. What you might want to do is to download the free version of PAF, since you are concerned how your transfer would come across from Legacy to PAF, and experiment a bit with that. Just a suggestion... Jerry Boor - http://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org On 03/15/2012 09:41 PM, britton...@comcast.net wrote: Thanks David, I'd never have thought that Legacy would accept just a question mark in a field and propagate it into charts and GEDCOMS. That's the best scheme yet for my private and other Legacy users, but it might not propagate quietly to programs like PAF and database trees in LDS or Ancestry, which I can't test. kb - Original Message - From: David C Abernathyda...@schmeckabernathy.com To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 12:12:26 PM Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames I use what info I have about the couple, i.e., Mary ? or ? Smith. Then add in (Wife of John Smith), or (Husband of Jane Doe). YES, I use question (?) marks instead of Unknown This helps in finding the person within the database, and tells me that more research is needed when seeing them listed with the person index of the program. I have NOT had issues with any GEDCOM files in doing this. When I find more data, all I need to do edit the name. Yes it may look funny within a pedigree chart and some reports, but the message come across loud and clear. I have had people comment that they saw that I was missing the information, because they saw what I had done. The use of some of the other suggest methods, do not make them stand out, so that others may offer some help. Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
Hi David. I like your use of the ? and I do something very similar. But would you mind giving me a couple examples of what you place in the LAST NAME field and what you place in the FIRST NAME FIELD, so I'm sure of what you are doing? Thanks, Jerry Boor - http://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org On 03/15/2012 12:12 PM, David C Abernathy wrote: I use what info I have about the couple, i.e., Mary ? or ? Smith. Then add in (Wife of John Smith), or (Husband of Jane Doe). YES, I use question (?) marks instead of Unknown This helps in finding the person within the database, and tells me that more research is needed when seeing them listed with the person index of the program. I have NOT had issues with any GEDCOM files in doing this. When I find more data, all I need to do edit the name. Yes it may look funny within a pedigree chart and some reports, but the message come across loud and clear. I have had people comment that they saw that I was missing the information, because they saw what I had done. The use of some of the other suggest methods, do not make them stand out, so that others may offer some help. Thanks, David C Abernathy Email disclaimers This message represents the official view of the voices in my head. http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com == All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus == -Original Message- From: britton...@comcast.net [mailto:britton...@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 8:47 AM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames Thanks, Michele, Bob and Jan for thinking about this. My main concern is unanticipated side effects. Placeholders like Mr. or Firstwife work well for the original compiler, who has Legacy and external files, but wider distribution and less capable software must be anticipated. Legacy too might hiccup on empty fields or name duplication - or perhaps work better... Mr. is a good example. In principle it's a quick search key for placeholders. In practice, it's often important in genealogical analysis to identify yeoman or gentleman social status, and is particularly useful in distinguishing a socially prominent line amongst similar entries in parish registers. For that purpose, the prefix field is ideal and alternate use of the given name field implies a placeholder. But does that work for other programs and propagate quietly via gedcoms? Is the trailing period a possible problem, or later parsing where all name fields are empty? I need to send a PAF Gedcom from Legacy to my cousin, who may further enter the branch to LDS and Ancestry trees... Also on side effects, I use Mr where it's not known which brother was the father, as elsewhere in this Pratt line. One side effect is to add a phantom brother to the older generation. No problem with Legacy, which has ample opportunity for notes and simple procedures for correction, but I don't want to seed a phantom into some future database. AKAs do seem the best path for the Richord/Richard mess, though Richord is only a search key for defectively entered records. But again, with both name fields empty, will AKAs propagate and behave quietly? Pratt-wife has definite appeal. Similarly, Pratt-child or Pratt-dau seems less likely to cause trouble than Unknown for the daughters. It's all ugly expedients... Thanks again kb Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http
RE: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
Jerry, Here are a few samples. They are from my main database from a different program, But, I do the same thing in all of the programs I run. Yes, the person index has all of these people at the top of the index, as the ( comes before any of the letters. As you can see there can be many different combinations, but they work for me. I use a GEDCOM to go from my main database to Legacy and other programs that I have installed. ? Bowlen (Husband of Isabell Abernathy) ? ? (Wife of Charles Madison) Jeanette ? (Wife of ? Moore Karen ? (Wife of Charles Dunivan) Dagmar ? (Mother of Ludwig Alfred Larsen) Doris ? (Wife of Albert Abernathy) Thanks, David C Abernathy Email disclaimers This message represents the official view of the voices in my head. http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com == All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus == -Original Message- From: Jerry [mailto:jerrysemailgro...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 10:10 AM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames Hi David. I like your use of the ? and I do something very similar. But would you mind giving me a couple examples of what you place in the LAST NAME field and what you place in the FIRST NAME FIELD, so I'm sure of what you are doing? Thanks, Jerry Boor - http://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
Thanks for those samples, David. What I could not quite figure out is how you are using the FIRST NAME and LAST NAME fields, from your examples, but it gives me the idea of what you are doing. Thanks, --Jerry On 03/17/2012 02:29 PM, David C Abernathy wrote: Jerry, Here are a few samples. They are from my main database from a different program, But, I do the same thing in all of the programs I run. Yes, the person index has all of these people at the top of the index, as the ( comes before any of the letters. As you can see there can be many different combinations, but they work for me. I use a GEDCOM to go from my main database to Legacy and other programs that I have installed. ? Bowlen (Husband of Isabell Abernathy) ? ? (Wife of Charles Madison) Jeanette ? (Wife of ? Moore Karen ? (Wife of Charles Dunivan) Dagmar ? (Mother of Ludwig Alfred Larsen) Doris ? (Wife of Albert Abernathy) Thanks, David C Abernathy Email disclaimers This message represents the official view of the voices in my head. http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com == All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus == -Original Message- From: Jerry [mailto:jerrysemailgro...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 10:10 AM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames Hi David. I like your use of the ? and I do something very similar. But would you mind giving me a couple examples of what you place in the LAST NAME field and what you place in the FIRST NAME FIELD, so I'm sure of what you are doing? Thanks, Jerry Boor - http://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
I handle things similarly, but over the years have found a need for unique identifiers for unknown persons and a guesstimate for their year of birth. This is the system I use - for what it is worth. As names become known their bbb identifier can be recycled and so far I have not needed more than the 18278 unknown individuals available using this three letter identification system. CONVENTIONS FOR UNKNOWN NAME ENTRY Unknown First Name: enter ?am for a male, ?af for a female, ?au sex unknown. Unknown Last Name: enter ??abbb where a in both first and last names is a single capital letter code giving the approximate 33 year span (a generation) for the estimated year of birth. The century and codes follow: YearsCodes YearsCodes 1200-1299 A,B,C 1600-1699 M,N,O 1300-1399 D,E,F 1700-1799 P,Q,R 1400-1499 G,H,I 1800-1899 S,T,U 1500-1599 J,K,L 1900-1999 V,W,X 2000-2067 Y,Z bbb is an entry sequence code that starts with a through z, then aa through az, ba to bz etc. An example using a female with unknown first name, born about 1750, who is the 54th person with unknown last name would be entered as ?Qf ??Qbc. Formula for arriving at date code for b.(birth) to use with unknown name is: 1. Use b. if known 2. Use b. of spouse, or spouse of spouse (other wife etc.) 3. Use first m.-25 4. Use bp+33 where bp=b. of parent 5. For bp use bc-33 where bc=b. of child in next generation For bc use bp+33 where bp=b. of parent in previous generation 6. Use d.-65 8. Use dp-32 where dp=d. of parent 9. Use mc-53 where mc=m. of child 10. Use 33 years per generation from any known date. Howard Cady - Original Message - From: Jerry jerrysemailgro...@gmail.com To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames Thanks for those samples, David. What I could not quite figure out is how you are using the FIRST NAME and LAST NAME fields, from your examples, but it gives me the idea of what you are doing. Thanks, --Jerry On 03/17/2012 02:29 PM, David C Abernathy wrote: Jerry, Here are a few samples. They are from my main database from a different program, But, I do the same thing in all of the programs I run. Yes, the person index has all of these people at the top of the index, as the ( comes before any of the letters. As you can see there can be many different combinations, but they work for me. I use a GEDCOM to go from my main database to Legacy and other programs that I have installed. ? Bowlen (Husband of Isabell Abernathy) ? ? (Wife of Charles Madison) Jeanette ? (Wife of ? Moore Karen ? (Wife of Charles Dunivan) Dagmar ? (Mother of Ludwig Alfred Larsen) Doris ? (Wife of Albert Abernathy) Thanks, David C Abernathy Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
Thanks, Michele, Bob and Jan for thinking about this. My main concern is unanticipated side effects. Placeholders like Mr. or Firstwife work well for the original compiler, who has Legacy and external files, but wider distribution and less capable software must be anticipated. Legacy too might hiccup on empty fields or name duplication - or perhaps work better... Mr. is a good example. In principle it's a quick search key for placeholders. In practice, it's often important in genealogical analysis to identify yeoman or gentleman social status, and is particularly useful in distinguishing a socially prominent line amongst similar entries in parish registers. For that purpose, the prefix field is ideal and alternate use of the given name field implies a placeholder. But does that work for other programs and propagate quietly via gedcoms? Is the trailing period a possible problem, or later parsing where all name fields are empty? I need to send a PAF Gedcom from Legacy to my cousin, who may further enter the branch to LDS and Ancestry trees... Also on side effects, I use Mr where it's not known which brother was the father, as elsewhere in this Pratt line. One side effect is to add a phantom brother to the older generation. No problem with Legacy, which has ample opportunity for notes and simple procedures for correction, but I don't want to seed a phantom into some future database. AKAs do seem the best path for the Richord/Richard mess, though Richord is only a search key for defectively entered records. But again, with both name fields empty, will AKAs propagate and behave quietly? Pratt-wife has definite appeal. Similarly, Pratt-child or Pratt-dau seems less likely to cause trouble than Unknown for the daughters. It's all ugly expedients... Thanks again kb Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
RE: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
I use what info I have about the couple, i.e., Mary ? or ? Smith. Then add in (Wife of John Smith), or (Husband of Jane Doe). YES, I use question (?) marks instead of Unknown This helps in finding the person within the database, and tells me that more research is needed when seeing them listed with the person index of the program. I have NOT had issues with any GEDCOM files in doing this. When I find more data, all I need to do edit the name. Yes it may look funny within a pedigree chart and some reports, but the message come across loud and clear. I have had people comment that they saw that I was missing the information, because they saw what I had done. The use of some of the other suggest methods, do not make them stand out, so that others may offer some help. Thanks, David C Abernathy Email disclaimers This message represents the official view of the voices in my head. http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com == All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus == -Original Message- From: britton...@comcast.net [mailto:britton...@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 8:47 AM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames Thanks, Michele, Bob and Jan for thinking about this. My main concern is unanticipated side effects. Placeholders like Mr. or Firstwife work well for the original compiler, who has Legacy and external files, but wider distribution and less capable software must be anticipated. Legacy too might hiccup on empty fields or name duplication - or perhaps work better... Mr. is a good example. In principle it's a quick search key for placeholders. In practice, it's often important in genealogical analysis to identify yeoman or gentleman social status, and is particularly useful in distinguishing a socially prominent line amongst similar entries in parish registers. For that purpose, the prefix field is ideal and alternate use of the given name field implies a placeholder. But does that work for other programs and propagate quietly via gedcoms? Is the trailing period a possible problem, or later parsing where all name fields are empty? I need to send a PAF Gedcom from Legacy to my cousin, who may further enter the branch to LDS and Ancestry trees... Also on side effects, I use Mr where it's not known which brother was the father, as elsewhere in this Pratt line. One side effect is to add a phantom brother to the older generation. No problem with Legacy, which has ample opportunity for notes and simple procedures for correction, but I don't want to seed a phantom into some future database. AKAs do seem the best path for the Richord/Richard mess, though Richord is only a search key for defectively entered records. But again, with both name fields empty, will AKAs propagate and behave quietly? Pratt-wife has definite appeal. Similarly, Pratt-child or Pratt-dau seems less likely to cause trouble than Unknown for the daughters. It's all ugly expedients... Thanks again kb Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
kb, For your phantom people you could mark them as private and then when you export to a gedcom they won't transfer unless you include private data in the export. Russ -Original Message- From: britton...@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 11:46 AM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames Thanks, Michele, Bob and Jan for thinking about this. My main concern is unanticipated side effects. Placeholders like Mr. or Firstwife work well for the original compiler, who has Legacy and external files, but wider distribution and less capable software must be anticipated. Legacy too might hiccup on empty fields or name duplication - or perhaps work better... Mr. is a good example. In principle it's a quick search key for placeholders. In practice, it's often important in genealogical analysis to identify yeoman or gentleman social status, and is particularly useful in distinguishing a socially prominent line amongst similar entries in parish registers. For that purpose, the prefix field is ideal and alternate use of the given name field implies a placeholder. But does that work for other programs and propagate quietly via gedcoms? Is the trailing period a possible problem, or later parsing where all name fields are empty? I need to send a PAF Gedcom from Legacy to my cousin, who may further enter the branch to LDS and Ancestry trees... Also on side effects, I use Mr where it's not known which brother was the father, as elsewhere in this Pratt line. One side effect is to add a phantom brother to the older generation. No problem with Legacy, which has ample opportunity for notes and simple procedures for correction, but I don't want to seed a phantom into some future database. AKAs do seem the best path for the Richord/Richard mess, though Richord is only a search key for defectively entered records. But again, with both name fields empty, will AKAs propagate and behave quietly? Pratt-wife has definite appeal. Similarly, Pratt-child or Pratt-dau seems less likely to cause trouble than Unknown for the daughters. It's all ugly expedients... Thanks again kb Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
Thanks David, I'd never have thought that Legacy would accept just a question mark in a field and propagate it into charts and GEDCOMS. That's the best scheme yet for my private and other Legacy users, but it might not propagate quietly to programs like PAF and database trees in LDS or Ancestry, which I can't test. kb - Original Message - From: David C Abernathy da...@schmeckabernathy.com To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 12:12:26 PM Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames I use what info I have about the couple, i.e., Mary ? or ? Smith. Then add in (Wife of John Smith), or (Husband of Jane Doe). YES, I use question (?) marks instead of Unknown This helps in finding the person within the database, and tells me that more research is needed when seeing them listed with the person index of the program. I have NOT had issues with any GEDCOM files in doing this. When I find more data, all I need to do edit the name. Yes it may look funny within a pedigree chart and some reports, but the message come across loud and clear. I have had people comment that they saw that I was missing the information, because they saw what I had done. The use of some of the other suggest methods, do not make them stand out, so that others may offer some help. Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
Thanks Russ, but what actually happens with export to a GEDCOM? For the usage I quoted, the phantom lies in the direct male line. If Legacy simply deletes the individual, that breaks the continuity of the line. If Legacy just suppresses the content of the name fields, then the line inherits the ghost of a phantom - pointers to no information then further pointers to real entries. Dunno what other programs or databases would make of that. kb - Original Message - From: R G Strong-genes rgstrongge...@gmail.com To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 12:36:04 PM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames kb, For your phantom people you could mark them as private and then when you export to a gedcom they won't transfer unless you include private data in the export. Russ Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
RE: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
I would put Richord Pratt and Richard Pratt in as aAKAs. In her main name field I would put Mrs. Pratt [Pratt surname, Mrs. in the prefix field]. This would be one of the rare time that I would put Mrs. Last Name in as a main name but you have no other way. I am sure you have it all explained in the notes. I think this is the best you can do for now. Michele -Original Message- From: britton...@comcast.net [mailto:britton...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:09 AM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames One of my lines has a Richard Pratt with a spouse Richord, per IGI and other sources. Her PCC Will gives the true tale. She describes herself as Richard Pratt, widow, and her daughters by surname, e.g. my daughter Osmond. A collateral Pratt line was then nationally famous, Lords Chief Justice and becoming the Earls and Marquesses of Camden, so she most probably had pretensions to rural grandeur, styling herself and daughters by spouses surnames. When faced with this about 8 years back, I punted, leaving Richord (as placeholder) and the IGI source in Legacy, ignoring the daughters but putting a reference to an external folder with the will copy and discussion. I'm now having to revisit this having recently connected to a cousin needing the whole line, and it's not obvious how to proceed. Richord is obviously mistranscribed from Richard, so that needs correction. I have neither given or surname for her. For her daughters, I have no given names, but reasonably reliably their spouse's surnames. For their spouses, I have only their presumed surnames. Any guesses as to the best way of entering this into Legacy, given that my new cousin will probably propagate it into LDS and/or Ancestry? Thanks kb Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
'Unknown' as a given name tells it like it is ... as does 'Pratt-Wife' if the maiden name is unknown. Bob On 3/14/2012 11:19 AM, Michele Lewis wrote: I would put Richord Pratt and Richard Pratt in as aAKAs. In her main name field I would put Mrs. Pratt [Pratt surname, Mrs. in the prefix field]. This would be one of the rare time that I would put Mrs. Last Name in as a main name but you have no other way. I am sure you have it all explained in the notes. I think this is the best you can do for now. Michele -Original Message- From: britton...@comcast.net [mailto:britton...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:09 AM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames One of my lines has a Richard Pratt with a spouse Richord, per IGI and other sources. Her PCC Will gives the true tale. She describes herself as Richard Pratt, widow, and her daughters by surname, e.g. my daughter Osmond. A collateral Pratt line was then nationally famous, Lords Chief Justice and becoming the Earls and Marquesses of Camden, so she most probably had pretensions to rural grandeur, styling herself and daughters by spouses surnames. When faced with this about 8 years back, I punted, leaving Richord (as placeholder) and the IGI source in Legacy, ignoring the daughters but putting a reference to an external folder with the will copy and discussion. I'm now having to revisit this having recently connected to a cousin needing the whole line, and it's not obvious how to proceed. Richord is obviously mistranscribed from Richard, so that needs correction. I have neither given or surname for her. For her daughters, I have no given names, but reasonably reliably their spouse's surnames. For their spouses, I have only their presumed surnames. Any guesses as to the best way of entering this into Legacy, given that my new cousin will probably propagate it into LDS and/or Ancestry? Thanks kb Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
RE: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames
Hmm! And I thought I had problematic families! Sorry, can't offer any advice though. Cheers Jan -Original Message- From: britton...@comcast.net [mailto:britton...@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, 15 March 2012 02:09 To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: [LegacyUG] Persons with only assumed/acquired surnames One of my lines has a Richard Pratt with a spouse Richord, per IGI and other sources. Her PCC Will gives the true tale. She describes herself as Richard Pratt, widow, and her daughters by surname, e.g. my daughter Osmond. A collateral Pratt line was then nationally famous, Lords Chief Justice and becoming the Earls and Marquesses of Camden, so she most probably had pretensions to rural grandeur, styling herself and daughters by spouses surnames. When faced with this about 8 years back, I punted, leaving Richord (as placeholder) and the IGI source in Legacy, ignoring the daughters but putting a reference to an external folder with the will copy and discussion. I'm now having to revisit this having recently connected to a cousin needing the whole line, and it's not obvious how to proceed. Richord is obviously mistranscribed from Richard, so that needs correction. I have neither given or surname for her. For her daughters, I have no given names, but reasonably reliably their spouse's surnames. For their spouses, I have only their presumed surnames. Any guesses as to the best way of entering this into Legacy, given that my new cousin will probably propagate it into LDS and/or Ancestry? Thanks kb \ Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
