Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: My understanding is you are saying I would like it to be this way, but at the moment it is not. Correct? Correct. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: My understanding is you are saying I would like it to be this way, but at the moment it is not. Correct? Actually to be more specific: I'm saying I would like geocoding-like use cases to be clarified, at the moment it is not clear. Here is what we should do: specifically allow narrow extractions of OSM for geocoding-like use cases to happen without the share-alike clause to kick in.. I'm also going to add we should do away with share alike in the mid term. It's just complicated and hurting OSM. Case in point: example at hand. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
I'm also going to add we should do away with share alike in the mid term. It's just complicated and hurting OSM. Case in point: example at hand. +1. If you want to do anything with OSM data besides make map tiles, the cloud of uncertainty around what you can and can't do with the data is pretty terrifying. Instead of rallying around the community and getting excited about improving OSM, you instead spend time looking at alternatives and trying to find lawyers who are experts in software licensing who you can afford to talk to. The share-alike clause makes the barrier to using OSM data very high. -- Marc Regan On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Alex Barth wrote: On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com (mailto:k...@maploser.com) wrote: My understanding is you are saying I would like it to be this way, but at the moment it is not. Correct? Actually to be more specific: I'm saying I would like geocoding-like use cases to be clarified, at the moment it is not clear. Here is what we should do: specifically allow narrow extractions of OSM for geocoding-like use cases to happen without the share-alike clause to kick in.. I'm also going to add we should do away with share alike in the mid term. It's just complicated and hurting OSM. Case in point: example at hand. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org (mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org) http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
It would appear that any and all data associated with a website or mobile app becomes fair game once OSM data is used. That may be an appearance, but it is not true. Actually, you should be fine, this is a very common use case. There are some details, but when making tiles, as long as they are only rendered together, not put together in a single database, there's no share-alike. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/License/Use_Cases#Case_3:_I_want_to_publish_something_based_on_OSM_and_my_own_data I agree this isn't clear. Confusion is certainly an issue with ODbL. Alex's issue with geocoding is different. I agree, we need to take a serious look at this, and have it clarified. * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: Rob smartt...@gmail.com To: Licensing and other legal discussions. legal-talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map +1 +1 +1 Would love to use OSM data to create a tile server for a project I have in the works but the share-alike clause has stopped me from moving forward with OSM. Rather than share-alike I would like to share-what-I-like but that is not an option. Currently there seems to be no limit to what OSM could claim rights to under the share-alike clause. It would appear that any and all data associated with a website or mobile app becomes fair game once OSM data is used. Rob Sent from my iPhone On Feb 27, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Marc Regan marcre...@gmail.com wrote: I'm also going to add we should do away with share alike in the mid term. It's just complicated and hurting OSM. Case in point: example at hand. +1. If you want to do anything with OSM data besides make map tiles, the cloud of uncertainty around what you can and can't do with the data is pretty terrifying. Instead of rallying around the community and getting excited about improving OSM, you instead spend time looking at alternatives and trying to find lawyers who are experts in software licensing who you can afford to talk to. The share-alike clause makes the barrier to using OSM data very high. -- Marc Regan On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Alex Barth wrote: On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: My understanding is you are saying I would like it to be this way, but at the moment it is not. Correct? Actually to be more specific: I'm saying I would like geocoding-like use cases to be clarified, at the moment it is not clear. Here is what we should do: specifically allow narrow extractions of OSM for geocoding-like use cases to happen without the share-alike clause to kick in.. I'm also going to add we should do away with share alike in the mid term. It's just complicated and hurting OSM. Case in point: example at hand. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
WhereAmI wrote: It would appear that any and all data associated with a website or mobile app becomes fair game once OSM data is used. What? No. No, that isn't true. I'm no fan of share-alike but that is trivially disprovable. Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/OSM-legal-talk-License-question-user-clicking-on-map-tp5750253p5751314.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
It would appear that any and all data associated with a website or mobile app becomes fair game once OSM data is used. What? No. No, that isn't true. I'm no fan of share-alike but that is trivially disprovable. Where is the line in the sand? For example I have a website which is driven by several databases whichinclude everything from website members info t I then integrate OSM into the website by including interactive map tiles, address searches (geocoding), POI placement / inclusion, routing, etc... Sent from my iPhone On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:54 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: WhereAmI wrote: It would appear that any and all data associated with a website or mobile app becomes fair game once OSM data is used. What? No. No, that isn't true. I'm no fan of share-alike but that is trivially disprovable. Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/OSM-legal-talk-License-question-user-clicking-on-map-tp5750253p5751314.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
Rob - as long as you don't mix ODbL data and other data in the same database, ODbL's share alike cause doesn't kick in. So using the OSM tiles on your web site doesn't mean that data in your web site is affected. I recommend reading the ODbL, it's pretty clear that way http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/ (And yes, I know, an open license shouldn't be that long and that complicated, but that's another story). On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Rob smartt...@gmail.com wrote: It would appear that any and all data associated with a website or mobile app becomes fair game once OSM data is used. What? No. No, that isn't true. I'm no fan of share-alike but that is trivially disprovable. Where is the line in the sand? For example I have a website which is driven by several databases whichinclude everything from website members info t I then integrate OSM into the website by including interactive map tiles, address searches (geocoding), POI placement / inclusion, routing, etc... Sent from my iPhone On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:54 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: WhereAmI wrote: It would appear that any and all data associated with a website or mobile app becomes fair game once OSM data is used. What? No. No, that isn't true. I'm no fan of share-alike but that is trivially disprovable. Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/OSM-legal-talk-License-question-user-clicking-on-map-tp5750253p5751314.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
Hi, On 27.02.2013 21:24, Marc Regan wrote: +1. If you want to do anything with OSM data besides make map tiles, the cloud of uncertainty around what you can and can't do with the data is pretty terrifying. Just to make this one point clear: What you *can* do with the data is pretty clear and pretty easy. Some use cases run into trouble specifically because an essential part of the use case is that third parties *cannot* do something. OSM are not the ones that prohibit certain uses; it is those who want to prohibit certain uses that (sometimes) have a problem with OSM. The share-alike clause makes the barrier to using OSM data very high. It is essentially a question of business models. It is true that it is sometimes difficult to marry share-alike data with all our data belong to us business models. We've had these discussions a lot in the run-up to the license change; we had people to whom even the lighter rules on produced works that the ODbL brought were an unacceptable weakening of share-alike. I think that the OSM community is already very open towards commercial use; even in CC-BY-SA times, a large majority explicitly approved of commercial use of our data which is not something you can take for granted in a volunteer project, and ODbL has made things easier at least for those use cases where non-database works are considered. Before we complain and ask for more and more concessions from the OSM community in order to build more and more commercial products with OSM instead of proprietary geodata, we should think about what we already have - it is a lot, and represents a huge value. Personally while I'd be happy with a PD license, I don't think that the concept if you want to build proprietary solutions and make $$$ from the fact that they're proprietary then you have to pay someone $$$ to buy proprietary geodata is too outrageous. As I said in my opening paragraph, the share-alike license never prohibits you from doing something with the data; it just prohibits you from prohibiting stuff! Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
Alex, I'm a little confused. The way I interpret your comment, merely storing ODbL and non-ODbL data in the same database triggers share alike. But on the use cases wiki page ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/License/Use_Cases), Case 4 says: 'It makes no difference whether you store the data sets separately, or together in the same database software, whether that is a RDBMS, NOSQL, filesystem or anything else. So long as the other data isn't derived from OSM, the result is a Collective Database, not a Derivative Database.' In other words, storing ODbL and non-ODbL data together does not trigger share alike. Just trying to get some clarification. Thanks, Jake On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Rob - as long as you don't mix ODbL data and other data in the same database, ODbL's share alike cause doesn't kick in. So using the OSM tiles on your web site doesn't mean that data in your web site is affected. I recommend reading the ODbL, it's pretty clear that way http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/ (And yes, I know, an open license shouldn't be that long and that complicated, but that's another story). On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Rob smartt...@gmail.com wrote: It would appear that any and all data associated with a website or mobile app becomes fair game once OSM data is used. What? No. No, that isn't true. I'm no fan of share-alike but that is trivially disprovable. Where is the line in the sand? For example I have a website which is driven by several databases whichinclude everything from website members info t I then integrate OSM into the website by including interactive map tiles, address searches (geocoding), POI placement / inclusion, routing, etc... Sent from my iPhone On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:54 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: WhereAmI wrote: It would appear that any and all data associated with a website or mobile app becomes fair game once OSM data is used. What? No. No, that isn't true. I'm no fan of share-alike but that is trivially disprovable. Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/OSM-legal-talk-License-question-user-clicking-on-map-tp5750253p5751314.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
