Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New contributing agency
(IMHO naturally) From a content pov, an agreement or a statement from a contributing agency should be based roughly on the terms laid down in the contributor terms (http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms). They should mainly grant the OSMF the rights listed in (2) and it would be nice if they would make a statement to the fact that they actually own the necessary rights in the data to do so. Simon Am 20.11.2013 20:28, schrieb Fernando Trebien: It's a very similar situation indeed, Jaakko. Here such forms would take years to get processed sometimes, it all depends on the good will of who receives the request. I've noticed that this will is more responsive when the person knows how to answer, or at least knows who to delegate the request to (specially if this person is not a very specialized busy top manager), so simple and easy questions are more effective at getting a clear answer faster. Wish you luck as well! Fernando On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Jaakko Helleranta.com jaa...@helleranta.com mailto:jaa...@helleranta.com wrote: Same situation in Nicaragua. Many here say: Oh, it's all public domain! .. where they merely mean, We have it and can give it to you. Or: It's online and no one will protest (immediately at least) if you put it in OSM. The written permission (for which there are existing forms) is critical -- and I'm afraid that you'll likely not get that... Wishing you all the best, of course. Cheers, -Jaakko -- jaa...@helleranta.com mailto:jaa...@helleranta.com * Skype: jhelleranta * Mobile: +505-8845-3391 (Nicaragua) * Voice(mail) / SMS / What's app: +1-202-730-9778 tel:%2B1-202-730-9778 * http://about.me/jaakkoh On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Fernando Trebien fernando.treb...@gmail.com mailto:fernando.treb...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you, Simon. You are correct, the LABGEO cartographers I have talked to don't seem to have access to any formal statement (contracts, laws, etc.) that ensures the data is truly public domain as they say. It is also possible that existing written statements would not clearly answer essential questions concerning ODbL compatibility. Considering some other problems (such as uninformed and uninterested Brazilian authorities, and lack of court decisions that would help us interpret the law), I believe that getting them to write down exactly what we need them to agree with would be safer for us and also more productive for us and for them. Since these authorities often erroneously equate public domain with free or open (not even knowing the differences between the two), I believe the questions for them should be: - how they expect their attribution to be visible to end users through OSM; and - whether the data can be used for commercial purposes. I don't know if these questions are enough, so I would like to hear your opinions and suggestions. Finally, we have already studied the data and found the conversion rather easy to do. Importing would probably require some coordinated effort, but for now it is the legal aspect that completely prevents us from beginning. Also, I think it would be fairer if the copyright page included a linked to the wiki page you mentioned, so that all contributors enjoy some similar level of visibility. Regards, Fernando On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch mailto:si...@poole.ch wrote: Hi Fernando I gather from your questions that they are currently not distributing the data under a (well-)known licence or on any other documented terms? In any case before spending to much effort on trying to nail down the legal side, you really need to clarify if this is suitable data for OSM and if yes, if there is a process that will result in something that is digestible by the Brazilian community. So I would strongly suggest at least starting with the steps outlined in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines As to being mentioned on http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright , there is no written in stone policy who gets on that page, in the past it seems to have been used as an extra bargaining chip in negotiation. Being listed there does not in any way indicate that the contributions are or were more important than contributions from the individuals and organisations listed here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors . Clearly
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New contributing agency
Thank you, Simon. You are correct, the LABGEO cartographers I have talked to don't seem to have access to any formal statement (contracts, laws, etc.) that ensures the data is truly public domain as they say. It is also possible that existing written statements would not clearly answer essential questions concerning ODbL compatibility. Considering some other problems (such as uninformed and uninterested Brazilian authorities, and lack of court decisions that would help us interpret the law), I believe that getting them to write down exactly what we need them to agree with would be safer for us and also more productive for us and for them. Since these authorities often erroneously equate public domain with free or open (not even knowing the differences between the two), I believe the questions for them should be: - how they expect their attribution to be visible to end users through OSM; and - whether the data can be used for commercial purposes. I don't know if these questions are enough, so I would like to hear your opinions and suggestions. Finally, we have already studied the data and found the conversion rather easy to do. Importing would probably require some coordinated effort, but for now it is the legal aspect that completely prevents us from beginning. Also, I think it would be fairer if the copyright page included a linked to the wiki page you mentioned, so that all contributors enjoy some similar level of visibility. Regards, Fernando On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Hi Fernando I gather from your questions that they are currently not distributing the data under a (well-)known licence or on any other documented terms? In any case before spending to much effort on trying to nail down the legal side, you really need to clarify if this is suitable data for OSM and if yes, if there is a process that will result in something that is digestible by the Brazilian community. So I would strongly suggest at least starting with the steps outlined in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines As to being mentioned on http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright , there is no written in stone policy who gets on that page, in the past it seems to have been used as an extra bargaining chip in negotiation. Being listed there does not in any way indicate that the contributions are or were more important than contributions from the individuals and organisations listed here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors . Clearly there is a practical desire to keep the list on the copyright page as short as possible. Down the road we may have better mechanisms to build the attribution pages and then that may change. So for now it would depend on the outcome of any necessary negotiations. Simon Am 14.11.2013 18:58, schrieb Fernando Trebien: Hello everyone, I've recently contacted an institute (LABGEO) within a public university here in Brazil (UFRGS) and they've shown interest in contributing to OSM their data, which includes roads, land contours, vegetation data, maybe even geological data (it is a pretty extensive database). They would also like to be listed as a contributor here in this page: http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Though there may be a few details left to check yet, they've stated so far that the dada is already regularly used for commercial purposes by many Brazilian companies at zero cost. So here's my question: what kind of statement do they have to provide so that they get listed in that page? What questions does the statement need to answer? -- Fernando Trebien +55 (51) 9962-5409 The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months. (Moore's law) The speed of software halves every 18 months. (Gates' law) ___ legal-talk mailing listlegal-talk@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- Fernando Trebien +55 (51) 9962-5409 The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months. (Moore's law) The speed of software halves every 18 months. (Gates' law) ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New contributing agency
Same situation in Nicaragua. Many here say: Oh, it's all public domain! .. where they merely mean, We have it and can give it to you. Or: It's online and no one will protest (immediately at least) if you put it in OSM. The written permission (for which there are existing forms) is critical -- and I'm afraid that you'll likely not get that... Wishing you all the best, of course. Cheers, -Jaakko -- jaa...@helleranta.com * Skype: jhelleranta * Mobile: +505-8845-3391 (Nicaragua) * Voice(mail) / SMS / What's app: +1-202-730-9778 * http://about.me/jaakkoh On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Fernando Trebien fernando.treb...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you, Simon. You are correct, the LABGEO cartographers I have talked to don't seem to have access to any formal statement (contracts, laws, etc.) that ensures the data is truly public domain as they say. It is also possible that existing written statements would not clearly answer essential questions concerning ODbL compatibility. Considering some other problems (such as uninformed and uninterested Brazilian authorities, and lack of court decisions that would help us interpret the law), I believe that getting them to write down exactly what we need them to agree with would be safer for us and also more productive for us and for them. Since these authorities often erroneously equate public domain with free or open (not even knowing the differences between the two), I believe the questions for them should be: - how they expect their attribution to be visible to end users through OSM; and - whether the data can be used for commercial purposes. I don't know if these questions are enough, so I would like to hear your opinions and suggestions. Finally, we have already studied the data and found the conversion rather easy to do. Importing would probably require some coordinated effort, but for now it is the legal aspect that completely prevents us from beginning. Also, I think it would be fairer if the copyright page included a linked to the wiki page you mentioned, so that all contributors enjoy some similar level of visibility. Regards, Fernando On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Hi Fernando I gather from your questions that they are currently not distributing the data under a (well-)known licence or on any other documented terms? In any case before spending to much effort on trying to nail down the legal side, you really need to clarify if this is suitable data for OSM and if yes, if there is a process that will result in something that is digestible by the Brazilian community. So I would strongly suggest at least starting with the steps outlined in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines As to being mentioned on http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright , there is no written in stone policy who gets on that page, in the past it seems to have been used as an extra bargaining chip in negotiation. Being listed there does not in any way indicate that the contributions are or were more important than contributions from the individuals and organisations listed here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors . Clearly there is a practical desire to keep the list on the copyright page as short as possible. Down the road we may have better mechanisms to build the attribution pages and then that may change. So for now it would depend on the outcome of any necessary negotiations. Simon Am 14.11.2013 18:58, schrieb Fernando Trebien: Hello everyone, I've recently contacted an institute (LABGEO) within a public university here in Brazil (UFRGS) and they've shown interest in contributing to OSM their data, which includes roads, land contours, vegetation data, maybe even geological data (it is a pretty extensive database). They would also like to be listed as a contributor here in this page: http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Though there may be a few details left to check yet, they've stated so far that the dada is already regularly used for commercial purposes by many Brazilian companies at zero cost. So here's my question: what kind of statement do they have to provide so that they get listed in that page? What questions does the statement need to answer? -- Fernando Trebien +55 (51) 9962-5409 The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months. (Moore's law) The speed of software halves every 18 months. (Gates' law) ___ legal-talk mailing listlegal-talk@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- Fernando Trebien +55 (51) 9962-5409 The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months. (Moore's law) The speed of software halves every 18 months. (Gates' law)
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New contributing agency
It's a very similar situation indeed, Jaakko. Here such forms would take years to get processed sometimes, it all depends on the good will of who receives the request. I've noticed that this will is more responsive when the person knows how to answer, or at least knows who to delegate the request to (specially if this person is not a very specialized busy top manager), so simple and easy questions are more effective at getting a clear answer faster. Wish you luck as well! Fernando On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Jaakko Helleranta.com jaa...@helleranta.com wrote: Same situation in Nicaragua. Many here say: Oh, it's all public domain! .. where they merely mean, We have it and can give it to you. Or: It's online and no one will protest (immediately at least) if you put it in OSM. The written permission (for which there are existing forms) is critical -- and I'm afraid that you'll likely not get that... Wishing you all the best, of course. Cheers, -Jaakko -- jaa...@helleranta.com * Skype: jhelleranta * Mobile: +505-8845-3391 (Nicaragua) * Voice(mail) / SMS / What's app: +1-202-730-9778 * http://about.me/jaakkoh On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Fernando Trebien fernando.treb...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you, Simon. You are correct, the LABGEO cartographers I have talked to don't seem to have access to any formal statement (contracts, laws, etc.) that ensures the data is truly public domain as they say. It is also possible that existing written statements would not clearly answer essential questions concerning ODbL compatibility. Considering some other problems (such as uninformed and uninterested Brazilian authorities, and lack of court decisions that would help us interpret the law), I believe that getting them to write down exactly what we need them to agree with would be safer for us and also more productive for us and for them. Since these authorities often erroneously equate public domain with free or open (not even knowing the differences between the two), I believe the questions for them should be: - how they expect their attribution to be visible to end users through OSM; and - whether the data can be used for commercial purposes. I don't know if these questions are enough, so I would like to hear your opinions and suggestions. Finally, we have already studied the data and found the conversion rather easy to do. Importing would probably require some coordinated effort, but for now it is the legal aspect that completely prevents us from beginning. Also, I think it would be fairer if the copyright page included a linked to the wiki page you mentioned, so that all contributors enjoy some similar level of visibility. Regards, Fernando On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Hi Fernando I gather from your questions that they are currently not distributing the data under a (well-)known licence or on any other documented terms? In any case before spending to much effort on trying to nail down the legal side, you really need to clarify if this is suitable data for OSM and if yes, if there is a process that will result in something that is digestible by the Brazilian community. So I would strongly suggest at least starting with the steps outlined in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines As to being mentioned on http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright , there is no written in stone policy who gets on that page, in the past it seems to have been used as an extra bargaining chip in negotiation. Being listed there does not in any way indicate that the contributions are or were more important than contributions from the individuals and organisations listed here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors . Clearly there is a practical desire to keep the list on the copyright page as short as possible. Down the road we may have better mechanisms to build the attribution pages and then that may change. So for now it would depend on the outcome of any necessary negotiations. Simon Am 14.11.2013 18:58, schrieb Fernando Trebien: Hello everyone, I've recently contacted an institute (LABGEO) within a public university here in Brazil (UFRGS) and they've shown interest in contributing to OSM their data, which includes roads, land contours, vegetation data, maybe even geological data (it is a pretty extensive database). They would also like to be listed as a contributor here in this page: http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Though there may be a few details left to check yet, they've stated so far that the dada is already regularly used for commercial purposes by many Brazilian companies at zero cost. So here's my question: what kind of statement do they have to provide so that they get listed in that page? What questions does the statement need to answer? -- Fernando Trebien +55 (51) 9962-5409 The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months. (Moore's law) The
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New contributing agency
Hi Fernando I gather from your questions that they are currently not distributing the data under a (well-)known licence or on any other documented terms? In any case before spending to much effort on trying to nail down the legal side, you really need to clarify if this is suitable data for OSM and if yes, if there is a process that will result in something that is digestible by the Brazilian community. So I would strongly suggest at least starting with the steps outlined in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines As to being mentioned on http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright , there is no written in stone policy who gets on that page, in the past it seems to have been used as an extra bargaining chip in negotiation. Being listed there does not in any way indicate that the contributions are or were more important than contributions from the individuals and organisations listed here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors . Clearly there is a practical desire to keep the list on the copyright page as short as possible. Down the road we may have better mechanisms to build the attribution pages and then that may change. So for now it would depend on the outcome of any necessary negotiations. Simon Am 14.11.2013 18:58, schrieb Fernando Trebien: Hello everyone, I've recently contacted an institute (LABGEO) within a public university here in Brazil (UFRGS) and they've shown interest in contributing to OSM their data, which includes roads, land contours, vegetation data, maybe even geological data (it is a pretty extensive database). They would also like to be listed as a contributor here in this page: http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Though there may be a few details left to check yet, they've stated so far that the dada is already regularly used for commercial purposes by many Brazilian companies at zero cost. So here's my question: what kind of statement do they have to provide so that they get listed in that page? What questions does the statement need to answer? -- Fernando Trebien +55 (51) 9962-5409 tel:%2B55%20%2851%29%209962-5409 The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months. (Moore's law) The speed of software halves every 18 months. (Gates' law) ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
